Weaning piggy off of critical care following stasis

[Bubble and Squeak]

Please can someone give me some advice on how best to wean a piggy off of critical care, after a week so far of being treated for statis.

For some background information.....
When Bubble and Squeak had their weekly weight check on Sunday 12th October, Squeak had lost 88g (from 1017g on 5/10 to 929g). I started feeding him Burgess Dual Care that day as apart from greens his didn't appear to be eating any hay, and would only eat 1 or 2 nuggets, when normally he is really eager for them and has a tablespoonful per day.
By Monday morning, he wouldn't eat the dual care (either spoon or syringe) and so I made an appointment with the vet. Whilst we were there he did a wee on the table and the vet syringed it up and there was traces of blood in it. Squeak's temperature had also gone down (can't remember what the reading was), and he was initially given Metacam and Enrocare for a suspected UTI, with the vet saying to keep him warm and to update them the next day as to how he was doing. They also thought that even though his incisors looked ok, that it could be something else dental going on. They gave us some Science Selective recovery to try him with whilst I was waiting for an order for Oxbow Critical Care to arrive. It was a struggle to feed him with this, and he was really resistant to being syringe fed, and lost more weight. As the vet we go to is a general vet, they said that they could refer us to an exotic vet for dental work, or they could carry this treatment out themselves. Unfortunately the nearest exotic vet, was fully booked for dentals for at least a week. Our normal vet said to keep going with meds and recovery feed and to update them the next morning (Wednesday). An appointment was made for him for 9 o'clock that morning for a checkup and in turn to keep him (with Bubble for company) for a GA to check his molars and an x-ray to check what else might be going on with him. Squeak's teeth are perfect, but the x-ray showed that he had statis and a bladder stone.....poor boy. He has been prescribed Emeprid (0.5ml twice a day), Cisapride 0.1ml twice a day and 3kg dose of dog metcam x1 every 24 hours. I have been feeding him critical care every 2-3 hours, with only managing to syringe 5ml each time, as he was still being resistant to being fed. I did try some piggy whispering and we were having some lovely cuddles in whilst feeding him. with him really snuggling into me. As I have some health issues of my own, I had to leave a bit of a bigger gap overnight, so that I could get 4-5 hours sleep. At his lowest, his weight went down to 859g on 17/10. We went for another check-up at the vet, on that day and he was happy with how Squeak was doing otherwise. Since then Squeak has gained 10g!

Following a telephone consultation today, the vet has said to carry on with his meds but to start weaning him off of the critical care and I will phone them with an update on Friday. The vet commented that I had done a marvellous job when he heard that he had gained a bit of weight!
As I have had a bit of a day of it today, with one thing and another, I forgot to ask the vet how best to wean him off, and so was wondering if anyone please had some suggestions, as I probably won't be able to get hold of anyone there again until tomorrow.
I am really worried about how quickly Squeak went downhill and thought we might lose him at one stage, and so I'm anxious about not wanting to cut back on feeds too quickly and him deteriorating again. He is willingly eating his greens, eating x 1 nugget twice a day, and nibbling a little bit of hay, but not sure if that is just because he is too full of critical care for much else. He is very enthusiastic about his food, but with the hay especially comes running over as if to eat and then mostly sits there instead. I have got 8 different hays and some readigrass at the moment, as was trying different things to try and tempt him into eating! He has still been drinking water by himself.

We will as soon as possible, give him the chance of surgery to remove the bladder stone, but the vet and I would like his condition to improve first, to give him the best chance with a GA and recovery. Bubble had a stone removed in June, and recovered really well! He has recently had squeaky wees on some days, but the vet couldn't feel any stones, when we visited a couple of weeks ago. Bubble got prescribed Enrocare for a week, and then we are giving him Metacam daily, and montitoring how he does, with a view to going for an x-ray if need be. Not sure if bladder stones can be genetic, as Bubble and Squeak are litter brothers.

Since Bubble had his stone, I have cut out some of what they were eating, now as well as hay, they havd a tablespoon of nuggets a day, filtered water, coriander, lettuce (mixture of the types they can have), peppers, cucumber and mint (a few times a week). Also a small piece of celery and fennel now and again.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.....a bit of a pile, but thought it best to give as much information as possible.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this

Only nibbling at hay most likely means his intake is not yet high enough for you to wean off or stop syringe feeding, but it is his daily weight checks each morning which are your guide.
Generally speaking a piggy who has the desire to eat hay, will eat hay and therefore tend to refuse syringe feeds but they still maintain their weight each day. It tends not to be the other way round ie that critical care fills them up and they then don’t eat hay.

If you want to test the waters, you can cut out one feed for a day and see what his weight does the next morning. If he remains stable, then stay as you are for the next day. The following day, cut out another feed and see if he remains stable the next morning…and so on and so forth. The vital key is the daily weight checks. Any drop in weight and you must increase the syringe feeds again as it means he isn’t eating enough hay independently and is not ready for you to stop feeding him.

 

[Wiebke]

Please can someone give me some advice on how best to wean a piggy off of critical care, after a week so far of being treated for statis.

For some background information.....
When Bubble and Squeak had their weekly weight check on Sunday 12th October, Squeak had lost 88g (from 1017g on 5/10 to 929g). I started feeding him Burgess Dual Care that day as apart from greens his didn't appear to be eating any hay, and would only eat 1 or 2 nuggets, when normally he is really eager for them and has a tablespoonful per day.
By Monday morning, he wouldn't eat the dual care (either spoon or syringe) and so I made an appointment with the vet. Whilst we were there he did a wee on the table and the vet syringed it up and there was traces of blood in it. Squeak's temperature had also gone down (can't remember what the reading was), and he was initially given Metacam and Enrocare for a suspected UTI, with the vet saying to keep him warm and to update them the next day as to how he was doing. They also thought that even though his incisors looked ok, that it could be something else dental going on. They gave us some Science Selective recovery to try him with whilst I was waiting for an order for Oxbow Critical Care to arrive. It was a struggle to feed him with this, and he was really resistant to being syringe fed, and lost more weight. As the vet we go to is a general vet, they said that they could refer us to an exotic vet for dental work, or they could carry this treatment out themselves. Unfortunately the nearest exotic vet, was fully booked for dentals for at least a week. Our normal vet said to keep going with meds and recovery feed and to update them the next morning (Wednesday). An appointment was made for him for 9 o'clock that morning for a checkup and in turn to keep him (with Bubble for company) for a GA to check his molars and an x-ray to check what else might be going on with him. Squeak's teeth are perfect, but the x-ray showed that he had statis and a bladder stone.....poor boy. He has been prescribed Emeprid (0.5ml twice a day), Cisapride 0.1ml twice a day and 3kg dose of dog metcam x1 every 24 hours. I have been feeding him critical care every 2-3 hours, with only managing to syringe 5ml each time, as he was still being resistant to being fed. I did try some piggy whispering and we were having some lovely cuddles in whilst feeding him. with him really snuggling into me. As I have some health issues of my own, I had to leave a bit of a bigger gap overnight, so that I could get 4-5 hours sleep. At his lowest, his weight went down to 859g on 17/10. We went for another check-up at the vet, on that day and he was happy with how Squeak was doing otherwise. Since then Squeak has gained 10g!

Following a telephone consultation today, the vet has said to carry on with his meds but to start weaning him off of the critical care and I will phone them with an update on Friday. The vet commented that I had done a marvellous job when he heard that he had gained a bit of weight!
As I have had a bit of a day of it today, with one thing and another, I forgot to ask the vet how best to wean him off, and so was wondering if anyone please had some suggestions, as I probably won't be able to get hold of anyone there again until tomorrow.
I am really worried about how quickly Squeak went downhill and thought we might lose him at one stage, and so I'm anxious about not wanting to cut back on feeds too quickly and him deteriorating again. He is willingly eating his greens, eating x 1 nugget twice a day, and nibbling a little bit of hay, but not sure if that is just because he is too full of critical care for much else. He is very enthusiastic about his food, but with the hay especially comes running over as if to eat and then mostly sits there instead. I have got 8 different hays and some readigrass at the moment, as was trying different things to try and tempt him into eating! He has still been drinking water by himself.

We will as soon as possible, give him the chance of surgery to remove the bladder stone, but the vet and I would like his condition to improve first, to give him the best chance with a GA and recovery. Bubble had a stone removed in June, and recovered really well! He has recently had squeaky wees on some days, but the vet couldn't feel any stones, when we visited a couple of weeks ago. Bubble got prescribed Enrocare for a week, and then we are giving him Metacam daily, and montitoring how he does, with a view to going for an x-ray if need be. Not sure if bladder stones can be genetic, as Bubble and Squeak are litter brothers.

Since Bubble had his stone, I have cut out some of what they were eating, now as well as hay, they havd a tablespoon of nuggets a day, filtered water, coriander, lettuce (mixture of the types they can have), peppers, cucumber and mint (a few times a week). Also a small piece of celery and fennel now and again.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.....a bit of a pile, but thought it best to give as much information as possible.

Hi

Recovery formula replaces any missing hay/grass fibre intake. The latter is the mainstay of the diet and makes over three quarters of what your piggies eat in a day. All the other food groups together only replace the supplementary role that wild forage used to have.

You control the hay intake by weighing first thing in the morning since you can never judge it just by eye. Watching a piggy chew on cud in their mouth or picking a few strands can be very misleading.
Your first aim is always to slow down any weight loss and stabilise the weight while your piggy is losing weight. The level and frequency of support feeding depends on whether/how much your piggy is eating and drinking independently.
Top up feeding comes in during recovery when the weight is consistently going up and your piggy is eating more and more willingly their recovery fare and show interest in veg beyond the minimal amount. Increased interest in food with a decend and sustained weight gain also generallyt means that your piggy has started to eat hay on their own. Once they are eating enough hay, your piggy will lose interest in the support feed.

In order to test their appetite, you can serve recovery feed in a bowl and see how they are tucking in or not really. But what you cannot do is wean your piggies off recovery fare without causing some major weight loss until you are very sure that they are eating enough hay.
By weighing first thing in the morning you get a consistent day to day comparison and can then plan the coming day accordingly.

Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support

All the best with your stone op. Please don't go for an operation until your piggy is stable again.

 

[Bubble and Squeak]

Thank you so much @Piggies&buns and @Wiebke for your advice and suggestions. I am going to leave at least a few more days to see how Squeak's weight is each morning, and then try dropping a feed to see how he does. Squeak has been a quite a bit more active this evening, which is a good sign. His poops have been looking normal over the last couple of days too. I forgot to mention earlier, but the vet also gave some Protexin to use for Squeak, so with this and his meds he is slowly but surely on the mend. I will definately wait until he is stable again, before going ahead with his operation, as he was in such a sorry state at his lowest weight, poor thing. He is definately looking a lot brighter today!

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much @Piggies&buns and @Wiebke for your advice and suggestions. I am going to leave at least a few more days to see how Squeak's weight is each morning, and then try dropping a feed to see how he does. Squeak has been a quite a bit more active this evening, which is a good sign. His poops have been looking normal over the last couple of days too. I forgot to mention earlier, but the vet also gave some Protexin to use for Squeak, so with this and his meds he is slowly but surely on the mend. I will definately wait until he is stable again, before going ahead with his operation, as he was in such a sorry state at his lowest weight, poor thing. He is definately looking a lot brighter today!

You can also consider a live gut microbiome transfer from a healthy companion, which mimics natural behaviour. If made with just dropped poos soaked shortly in a very little water, which is then syringed to the ill piggy, it is actually more effective. Syringe 3 ml 2-3 times daily.
You need to always make it as fresh as possible as the microbiome starts dying off from the moment the poos are leaving the body.

Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe

 

[Bubble and Squeak]

I found Squeak early this morning, in his forever sleep.....I am absolutely heartbroken.

I hadn't started weaning him off of his recovery food yet, as he was still losing a gram or two each day. Instead I tried to increase it as much as he was able to tolerate. Yesterday, I took him back to the vet as I was so worried about him. After checking him over, the vet said he wasn't critically ill and that they could refer him to an exotics vet to assess him further, which I agreed to. It's so very sad that he didn't get that chance.

He had a couple of really long cuddles into the early hours of this morning, and I feel bad that I didn't hold him all night now. I was nodding off though and worried that I might drop him. He was snuggling into me as I chatted and sung to him I'd do anything for you dear anything, for you mean everything to me (that had become our special song, since he got poorly a couple of weeks ago). His brother Bubble knew something was up, as he was lying next to him last night, more than normal. Bubble is a bit subdued today, but eating and tootling around still. We will look to get him a friend as soon as possible.

I will write a tribute to Squeak soon.

Sleeptight and popcorn high over the bridge Squeakie Wheakle.....we will meet again, someday

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry Squeak had the call to the rainbow bridge. He felt your love and he knew he was loved. It sounds like he had a peaceful passing with Bubble by his side.

 

[Wiebke]

BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry for your huge shock.

It is absolutely normal to have strong feelings of guilt, failure or intense soul-searching at the start of the grieving process; we all experience them to some degree or other.

Please don't feel guilty about falling asleep. You can never be around all the time.
Dying piggies generally remove themselves from their group to die alone after their friends have taken leave from them. It is only the very closely bonded and emotionally dependent mates who will stay on.
I have several times lost a piggy that was fitting or kept falling over the moment it was safe for me to put their confining cosy down to finally rush to the toilet. They have obviously found it easier to leave without me being with them.
You have not failed Squeak. It was simply his time and he could make his journey to the Bridge in true piggy style. Try to see it like that. He was still making his journey from a place where he was loved by Bubble and you and carrying that knowledge in his heart.

Be kind with yourself but please also give Bubble time to do his own grieving. As long as a piggy is eating and drinking and hanging on in there, you have on average 1-4 weeks time to set up an adoption, dating session or to find a suitable new companion.
With neutering boars they can wait even longer for the greater gain.

What you can do is to allow Bubble to snuggle into Squeak's scent if that gives him comfort and let it gradually fade in the coming days. Don't clean the cage and don't remove a cosy that is a grieving companion's prop, no matter how grotty - give them at least 5-7 days until they pick up life again, if without their sparkle.

This is our guide for the grieving owners since the grieving process can take you to some rather weird mind loops: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

Here is our information on what you can do for bereaved piggies immediately and for the longer term: Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

 

[thewheakybeans]

I’m sorry for your loss, sleep peacefully Squeak.