What do you want from your vet?

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EmmyRVN said:
Great idea on the putting money away, some companies do rabbit insurance but I haven't seen anyone do guinea pig insurance yet!>
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Hi

Exotic Direct insures Guinea Pigs, that's who we are with...

I'm lucky in as much as my local vet practice (Clifton Villa Veterinary Surgery) has very knowledgeable vets and nurses. I am always listened to when I say, he/ she has changed in this way... I think there might be a UTI or a respiratory infection etc and what I am concerned about is checked out for me. A couple of times I've called them with a concern and the vet talked to me or called me back and I wasn't charged for it and I have every faith in them that they would do whatever was needed to help my babies (and grand-babies) if needed.

My two favourite vets there love piggies as much as I do and last time I was there, the male vet was baby talking my pigs and rubbing their chins, calling them cute and cheeky and telling Pancake he was full of beans as he was scurrying around like a nutter and sniffing everything lol! (This was when I was hand-rearing Caramel's babies - for those who may remember).

The last procedure we had done, OH took them in and I picked them up after uni (not covered by insurance as it was elective) was our remaining 3 boar's neuterings (Coconut having already been neutered about a year previously). My 3 boars were neutered and the vet gave them all a check over as well and found a lump on Rasher's shoulder - had a nurse called me immediately and removed it with my permission. I have to say I have never had any trouble with the vets here, in fact I am very pleased with them for reasons such as this. No, lets wait and see... no, lets do something now - like the call while Rash was still in surgery so it meant sorting two things out at once. I was even given a bottle of critical care by one of the vets for free to help with the hand rearing (which I still have most of). Even when Caramel had mastitis, he was massaging the mammary tissue and manipulating the lumps and bumps for what must have been 20 minutes before he got her milk to flow and then the other side a few days later after we lost little Cocoa and he wanted to check over the others again.

The nurses always fuss them as well and when Cinnamon had her ultrasound over a year ago now, they told me she'd been having soooooo many cuddles from everyone and even the receptionist asked if I was going to bring the babies in for cuddles haha!

I do agree with all the points raised though, having read a lot of posts on the forum regarding dental issues, or vets even giving the wrong information etc in my time here and I am always happy to hear of a practice that wants to do more, improve and be the best it can be... we need more of those practices! Well done to you!
 
I am glad that my local vets (who are not specialists) are now open to suggestions once they realised that I knew what I was about and that medication recommended on a forum actually worked where the traditional approach hadn't; it was a pain to start back in square one when they got taken over and most of the old vets either retired or left a couple of years ago! But they are now also OK if I come up with the name of a specialist vet obtained through the forums to ring up over a specific treatment. However, I have also learned where their limits are (sadly at the cost of lives) and am seeing a specialist over any complicated issues.
 
Hello and welcome,

I'm a vet nurse too, its great you have asked this, i work in a large hospital who deal with piggies too. Ive only just caught up with this thread, great to see another nurse trying to make a practice a bit more piggie savvy.

I think a number of things need to change, although i believe that the welfare standards for small mammals eg piggies, rabbits, rats etc is so much below the standard it should be sadly. I do believe that more people are getting smaller pets and also seeking better veterinary care than they used to, although other still not. (as you may have noticed they go one way or the other sadly)

Some vets (and owners) still consider piggies to be disposable pets and will simply not be bothered at treating the patient correctly. Without talking to individual people and maybe getting more across in vet school i dont really know how this concept can be changed. I think us nurses can do a good job with the convincing side sometimes. :)

As for the treatment side of things:

1.) I think vets need to use baytril less, i think reading some of the posts on here over the last few months I'm hearing of more cases where the bug being treated is becoming resistant to enrofloxacin. I think the drug is far to overused. A good vet will use a different antibiotic for different ailments, for example in the usual way septrin (trimethaprim) is much more effective against cystitis for example. Unfortunatly some vets still are either too worried about asking owners about off licenced drugs or simply fobbing unknowning owners off with a dose of baytril and sending them away.

2.) More pain relief. Thankfully my practice is very up on the pain relief front in all species and patients. And thankfully slowly pain relief is becoming better across the board but some still dont consider our small furries, just because they dont bite or howl when painful doesnt mean they are not.

3.) More dental knowledge. As others have said. Even i know not much about dental issues, and i wish i did. Maybe Simon could do some CPD for us vets and nurse out there. (CPD is continual professional development - lectures and education which both vets and nurses have to do some much a year to remain on the veterinary register)

4.) Not being so scared to aneathetise and remembering to treat piggies just as you do dogs/cats. Yes piggie GA's do come with a higher risk than cats or dogs but with more thought they dont have to be. I believe many piggies are GA'd incorrectly sometimes and are also when they are not well enough. Gut stimulants arent used enough. Also simple things such as raising the chest during a long procedure can cause far less strain on the heart/lungs due to abdominal contents putting pressure on them. Just simple steps and better use of drugs/premeds can make all the difference

5.)Knowing that castration cannot change behaviour, most vets dont realise this.

6.) I agree with others that have said using xray and even ultrasound so find stuff (with aneasthetic when possible too)

7.) Just treating piggies like cats and dogs. If we just stopped and thought about how an illness, diagnoses or GA is done with a cat/dog the trailoring it to a piggie instead of assuming an owner will not want tests/GA's or treatment for the piggie.

8.) Oh, and i forgot, knowing correct dosages (even if they have to look it up), so many piggies are not being dosed correctly on things. Vets need to realise (although most do) that small mammals metabolism is much faster and they need more mg/kg than a cat/dog. I know it can be a bit scary, for example and I'm sure you know, drawing up 0.012ml of ACP for a 4kg cat is normal (i dont remember the exact dose but giving an example) then turning around and drawing up 0.2ml for a piggie weighing less than a kg can be a bit daunting and scary. But i have dosed my own piggies correctly like this (with a vet checking dosages) and they are still here today.

x.
 
I drew up a rabbit triple dose and combined it was 1ml! Alot compared to triple for cats!
Was a bit scary!

Agreed for the use of enrofloxacin, in cats and dogs its used as a back up after culture. Everyone is worried about human resistance to it.
But on the otherhand, its the only licenced antibiotic. In the cascade you are allowed to use off licence drugs if the licenced ones arent suitable or dont work, ie then you can use septrin.
But if you went for an off licenced drug and something happened to the pig because of it, the vet may get sued and would be ripped to shreads for not using a licenced drug first. Therefor batril is used primarily.
Its to cover the vets if they get sued, because thats the type of world we live in these days. Everyone has to cover their backs so they're not struck off! :...
 
Ellie_Jo3213

For me, and i think alot of memebers, its not just that vets dont use septrin FIRST, they often wont even consider it as an option after owners requests. I think vets should present owners with the options, and have them agree. I for instance, would be happy to sign a disclaimer saying i authorised the use of septrin first without trying baytril, If it was necessary. I would much rather that than be sent home with a sick piggy going down hill fast.
 
Connie said:
Ellie_Jo3213

For me, and i think alot of memebers, its not just that vets dont use septrin FIRST, they often wont even consider it as an option after owners requests. I think vets should present owners with the options, and have them agree. I for instance, would be happy to sign a disclaimer saying i authorised the use of septrin first without trying baytril, If it was necessary. I would much rather that than be sent home with a sick piggy going down hill fast.
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I dont think that even if you sign consent it wouldnt hold up in a disaplinary court if action was taken againts the vet. The fact that you havent used a licenced product for a species for a condition at a dose rate recommended, its a prescription issue which the RVCS would come down on them like a tonne of bricks. If that product didnt work, then you can go for off licence. Its not the vets fault, its the law, and if they dont follow it they can get struck off.
Theres alot of rules and regulations that are in place that people are not aware of.
 
I just think its odd, how so very many vets WILL use it. But others wont even consider it. I have never heard of a piggie getting sick from using a different antibiotic, And i can promise, if my piggie didnt see an improvement within a couple of days of getting the baytril (not even a little improvement to a very poorly piggie) and my vet would no presecribe an antibiotic often used by other vets to treat the condition my piggy had... I would take my buisness elsewhere *shrugs* I'm not suggesting every vet use it as a first call, but I doubt they are going to have a problem with being sued if the owner has suggested the new antibiotic themselves.
 
Well its up to them if they want to risk it, I'm just saying theres laws. Ive seen specialists use it, buuut they have done extra qualifications and therefore would have a better excuse in a court.
Theoretically, and animal can have a reaction to any drug. There are many dogs that csnt take metacam as it causes gut upsets. Same with cats anf hyperthyroid treatment. They can get anaphylactic reactions to drugs such as alfaxan/propofol. Some horses can have a reaction to iv drugs and drop down dead.
If an animal died due to a drug that was not licenced in that species and the licenced drug had not been tried before, the vet would be in deep cow poo.
Maybe you may not sue, but there are plenty of people out in world that would!
Ive had my "how not to get sued and struck off" lectures today and were basically told no matter how nice people are, they are the ones to normally complain. Some people even try to trip and trick vets to sue to get money out of themdue to the current financial market.
 
My point is not that there arnt people who would sue, just that the people who would sue arnt usually the kind to bring up using septrin in the first place.
Personally, i also wouldnt have my piggies treated for anything that wasnt an obvious easy fix sittuation(like mites, or conjunctivitus, etc) by a non exotics vet... Unless it was someone who had obvious guinea pig experience but not the actual certificate.

But i can see your point about the risk to the vets.. however i hope you can also see that from an owners point of view, they will go where they can get the best care. :)
 
ellie_jo3213 said:
Well its up to them if they want to risk it, I'm just saying theres laws. Ive seen specialists use it, buuut they have done extra qualifications and therefore would have a better excuse in a court.
Theoretically, and animal can have a reaction to any drug. There are many dogs that csnt take metacam as it causes gut upsets. Same with cats anf hyperthyroid treatment. They can get anaphylactic reactions to drugs such as alfaxan/propofol. Some horses can have a reaction to iv drugs and drop down dead.
If an animal died due to a drug that was not licenced in that species and the licenced drug had not been tried before, the vet would be in deep cow poo.
Maybe you may not sue, but there are plenty of people out in world that would!
Ive had my "how not to get sued and struck off" lectures today and were basically told no matter how nice people are, they are the ones to normally complain. Some people even try to trip and trick vets to sue to get money out of themdue to the current financial market.
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We get clients to sign a disclaimer if we are prescribing any off licence drug to any species stating that they understand the risk and are happy and agree that it is the best treatment. That way, if anything were to happen then we've got that.

x
 
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