What would you do? Pregnant piggies in P@H

[michellemuffin]

Subject: Re care of animals



I was wondering if you could possibly answer me some questions I live on the isle of wight and I understand your new store will opening soon,
I have had some feedback from friends On the mainland about your stores, and thought it best to ask you directly what your policy of keeping and selling live animals are,
I have been told you have in some stores been keeping rabbits and guinea pigs together,as you must be aware this simply is not practical the rabbit can and often does injure the smaller guinea pig and leads customers to believe they can be kept like this at home resulting in many injuries and on occasions death of the pig which is simply not on for a big company like you,
Also it has come to my attention that pregnant pigs are being sold this results in customers finding little pigs a few weeks later totally unexpected unless like me am a guinea pig lover and own many of my own, how can you risk these poor pigs in not getting right vet treatment during pregnancy and labour if the new owners are unaware of this?
Some of your pigs for sale have also been found to be in ill health hopefully when alerted to this you will then give it the correct treatment and refrain from selling the pig until it is better ,can you confirm this for me as well,
I am asking this as I will be keeping an eye on your new store as many of my friends On the mainland do already if I happen to find anything not correct and not dealt with I will do all in my power to stop this, which is why I am asking you to let me know your policy so In know what to expect, I am not against pet shops in general, in fact some of my pigs come from good pet shops but am against ill treatment of all animals, can I then be assured that any animals kept in your store will be 100% well looked after,
Thankyou for your time, look forward to finally seeing a pets at home store for myself


Michelle Turrell


this is a copy of my email sent to pets at home as I said I would do what do you think, maybe made an enemy for myself here lol >

 

[John Locke]

Maybe your email is a bit strong, but I'll be interested in their response, they may try to fob you off because you're basing your accusations on hearsay. I assume our new one is pregnant, and when she has babies I will be writing a letter of complaint about it. And I'll go further on their dealings with the breeder and the poor care they are receiving. I think we've got them on the spot because the manager directly told us for certain the pig was not pregnant.

For all the arguments for and against buying one from P@H, we know we did the right thing for this ittle piggie, she needed a good home with people who knew what her needs will be.

 

[michellemuffin]

thats all you can do sweetheart go with own instinct and your own choices no one can do that for you, and I for one am glad you did how is she doing by the way?
when I get mad I do get mad and I got so annoyed with so many people saying bad things about PAH that I wanted to know for myself their views which is why I asked for it, probably get a load of old rubbish back but they've been told now, I am going to be keeping an eye on them as I do with the other pet shops of which I have no complaints, and I will report anything to vets RSPCA and anyone who will listen, fingers crossed I get a good nice reply

 

[cavykind]

you all moan about them but now its time we ALL took action, come on ,you all write letters or emails

I admire anyone who takes the time to do something positive when they see animal neglect/abuse, whatever and believe me I've written dozens of letters and gone along to animal welfare related meetings...

The simplest and most effective action any of us can take against these shops is to refuse to buy animals or any supplies from them and to encourage others to do the same. Sure go in, speak to the manager, complain loudly but politely, write letters, send emails, contact environmental health or the RSPCA...but please think twice about giving them your money in exchange for animals that are in no fit state to be sold.

We could all go into most pet shops or this store and buy up one or more guineas at risk (aren't they all?) then return days later and buy up the ones that have replaced them...Doing so we become a link in the chain of the whole sorry affair :-\

So yes, please, please, please complain, but don't do so while putting your hand in your pocket and supporting these pet shops.

This isn't meant to "hurt" anyone, I understand the sentiments of the caring animal loving people who "rescue" from pet shops, but we can't have it both ways? Can we really condemn them while supporting the system...albeit with the best intentions ?

This is a generalisation and not about any one person or persons and my personal thoughts on the matter.

I look forward to reading your response Michelle and personally I don't believe you were too "strong"

Barbara

 

[michellemuffin]

as already said I have a bad affliction in that I am ruled by my heart not my head and no amount of help will ever cure it and am sorry to say I dont think by us not buying them when they obviously need help will ever make much difference, so by saving just one or two makes me feel better in myself after all I am just stepping in before you in that I sort of rescue them before they have had a horrible home,
in the real world i totally agree with you but we are talking about our beloved guinea pigs here who are born beautiful and addictive so all the while I can take one i will do so, and also complain at the same time as I dont see things the way you do Barbara, I just see it that you rescue them after they've had a bad home I and other pig lovers who buy from pet shops do it before they have had to live like that,
I dont think we ever will agree with things so maybe we had better agree to disagree yet again,lol
pet shops have been around for years and years why on earth would things change by us not buying a few pigs now and again and ones that really need homes , we are not talking about every pig we have is from a pet shop, just the odd special one, and I do not feel in the least hypocritical in that I complained to PAH and buy pigs from shops as i have never in my life set foot in a PAH and am waiting for that treat in the near future, but selling a pregnant pig and mite covered pig is out of order and one that I will not stand by and take
no Barbara I did not take it personally becasue you know my thoughts only too well, but cannot understand why you keep on condeming all pet shops when you know full well a lot of us use them and it does upset some, not everybody has your thoughts on the matter, and yes we can condemn them if they are not giving living animals the basic proper care needed despite buying the odd pig , no reply as of yet to my email ,maybe getting hit squad sorted lol

 

[John Locke]

thats all you can do sweetheart go with own instinct and your own choices no one can do that for you, and I for one am glad you did how is she doing by the way?
when I get mad I do get mad and I got so annoyed with so many people saying bad things about PAH that I wanted to know for myself their views which is why I asked for it, probably get a load of old rubbish back but they've been told now, I am going to be keeping an eye on them as I do with the other pet shops of which I have no complaints, and I will report anything to vets RSPCA and anyone who will listen, fingers crossed I get a good nice reply

Lindsay here now, back from work Padme is doing well, been drinking lost but not too keen on any of the frsh veg we've offered her - I don't think she's used to it! We've given her lots of fresh hay, some dried food, and a comfy fleece lined box She has been lying around a lot poor lamb, I don't blame her! We will take her out to weigh her and give her a quick cuddle tonight, but besides from talking to her a lot we're leaving her in peace for now. Good on you for writing the email, I don't really think it's too strong, nearly every animal owner I know has had bad words to say about them! I have a couple of days off now so hopefully I'll have time to sit down and write something. Gil bless him gets a bitrighteous when in the mood so I wait eagerly for both the babies and his letter :

 

[cavykind]

no Barbara I did not take it personally because you know my thoughts only too well, but cannot understand why you keep on condemning all pet shops when you know full well a lot of us use them and it does upset some, not everybody has your thoughts on the matter

If you read my above post again Michelle, you will in fact see that I did not condemn all pet shops...I said "We could all go into most pet shops or this store......."
I am very careful...or endeavour to be... how I word my posts

And it's true, we see so very many posts about pets stores on this board voicing concern over pregnant guinea pigs, babies to young to be sold, guinea pigs mating in the pens, guinea pigs with skin problems, guinea pigs that are past their sell by date....
I do stand by what I said about all guineas being at possible risk when being sold as merchandise in stores, as I believe all animals and birds are.
As always my thoughts only and I respect everyone is free to choose whether or not they buy animals from shops

I am simply trying to put across things from the welfare perspective

Barbara

 

[John Locke]

Problem is, you try to do something, and you get a backlash from people who either rope you in with the scary animal rights activists, or just folk who don't know any other way than to buy in pet stores. I doubt anything like petitions would help, though I would be very willing to get involved in any campaign to raise awareness of rescues and adoptions I did a similar thing with recycling in schools during my last year of university, and kids loved getting involved ;D

 

[michellemuffin]

as said I totally agree with you in principle, but life is never black and white and whether you say most or all pet shops is immaterial really , I guess Barbara you will have to accept some of us are just weaker then you lol, me included, both our hearts are all for animals welfare but the finer points we will never agree ,but we both have to agree its our own choice and our own decisions whether to buy from a pet shop, mine is if the pigs for me then heaven hell or you wont stop me ;D ;D ;D I'd mow you down in the rush,

Lindsay so glad Padme is doing ok some of my newer ones are frightened of veggies until they see others going mad for them, Jovi would happily munch on the other girls hair but run from veggies UNTIL she tasted one now shes first in the queue making the most noise,
I would get involved in most animal rights campaigns but would never be at home to be with my pigs I do write and donate to most animal charitys, but have no interest in getting involved in the heavier type campaigns,
years ago hubby was a special constable and he was called in to help with the movement of live animals to France riots in Essex I threatned to divorce him if he went luckly he wasn't a full time constable becasue he knew i was mad as hell and it would have been a hard choice job or wife , luckly he chose me ,

 

[cavykind]

as said I totally agree with you in principle, but life is never black and white and whether you say most or all pet shops is immaterial really

Sorry Michelle, but it isn't immaterial. I specifically said most and meant most. You chose to make a point of me condemning all and stating words to the effect that I could upset board members who use pet shops. I chose my words carefully to avoid this scenario.
Anyway...let's move on

Barbara

 

[kayjay]

I doubt anything like petitions would help, though I would be very willing to get involved in any campaign to raise awareness of rescues and adoptions I did a similar thing with recycling in schools during my last year of university, and kids loved getting involved ;D

I think this is the only way forward, unless a miracle happens and petshops stop selling live animals and I don't think that's likely to happen in the near future. I'd like to be involved in promoting the care of rabbits and guineapigs including the fact that there are hundreds if not thousands in rescue and many more living in awful conditions. Until the general public become more aware and care about how animals are created and supplied the problem will not end.

I personally would like all buns and pigs to come from licensed registered GOOD breeders and rescues. No shops, garden centres, markets, auctions etc. However that's not the reality now and I for one do not regret the £4 I paid for Arthur last week, he'd been in the shop for months and deserves a home as much as any pig. This petshop is very small and she only has one indoor cage for pigs so isn't supplying a vast amount.

By the way if people think petshops are awful, I've been told of a local auction where guineapigs and rabbits are held up and sold for pennies, you can guess what for :'(

 

[cavykind]

By the way if people think petshops are awful, I've been told of a local auction where guineapigs and rabbits are held up and sold for pennies, you can guess what for :'(

Yes we have something (actually 2) like that not too far from us, or at least we used to, I'd guess it's still going?

I had one lady who used to feel sorry for these guinea pigs (understandably so) and buy them up and pass them onto me!
I had to tell her to stop as I couldn't take anymore and as with pet shops, the more people buy, the more that are taken there to be sold.

Terrible places, but two wrongs don't make a right and it doesn't detract from the fact that many pet shops have a lot to answer for :-\

I was told by someone that a pet shop was a regular customer there and bought up babies for peanuts :
Don't know if it were true or not...who knows.

Barbara

 

[Jillybean]

By the way if people think petshops are awful, I've been told of a local auction where guineapigs and rabbits are held up and sold for pennies, you can guess what for :'(

Oh God, that's awful. Sends shudders through me. Are you in the UK?

Back to PAH, when I was looking for a pregnant rescue, in desperation I wrote to my local PAH. I asked them if they ever got pregnant guineas in I would be willing to take one. I stressed that I would not pay and that we might be helping each other out for an animal welfare cause. I said that PAH had a reputation for wrongly sexing animals although I had no evidence of that from this particular store. Anyway, I hope I left them with the impression that I assumed they would not sell a pregnant animal. I didn't hear back ...

 

[Jillybean]

Sorry about the previous post. Got me quotes and things mixed up!

I have never heard about these auctions, don't think they're down this way (Wiltshire). Just when you think animal abuse can't sink any deeper, you hear about something else. I'm amazed the Local Authorities allow animal auctions, but then I suppose it's like a farmers market, don't they have to have a licence.

 

[cavykind]

Jillybean, there are animal auctions up and down the country. Though I have never been, wouldn't trust myself not to kick up a stink...

I have reliably heard that they sell all manner of birds, guineas, bunnies, etc. Someone involved in rescue checked one out and witnessed a baby guinea pig for sale in a large margarine tub with chicken wire over the top.
The RSPCA were regular visitors to this event by all accounts due to visitors complaints. I know one of the auctions near me (where the guineas I mentioned earlier came from) stopped selling animals....just sold birds :-\
I think this may have been because of complaints too.

Barbara

 

[Jillybean]

I'll make some enquiries down this way and put in some complaints if I hear of anything.

 

[michellemuffin]

thank God we have nothing like that near me , ugh >

 

[cavykind]

These auctions are generally advertised in the free ad papers, though when I think about it, I haven't seen them in ours for some time. If it isn't in the pets section, you might find it in livestock as chickens and geese etc are often sold there too :'(

Barbara