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When is enough, enough?

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Claire W

Claire W

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As many of you already know, Connie has been having bladder problems since November and has been having infection after infection which can sometimes leave her not very mobile and in quite a lot of pain. She has however, now been given Septrin and Metacam which has seemed to help her more than Baytril. My vets have been in touch with a local specialist who they are in contact with over the phone and via e-mail concerning Connie's condition.
This last infection has been going on for nearly 3 weeks now and a urine sample on Wednesday showed blood and crystals in her urine. She is going to the vets on Tuesday morning for another X ray to see if there is a bladder stone :( If there is no stone present, she will be having a bladder flush.
My OH isn't as much of an animal lover as me which doesn't help but the point he is trying to make is that we can't leave her going on like this for the rest of her life. I have managed to talk him around and he has agreed for the vets to do what they have to do on Tuesday concerning a bladder op. The last time she had an X ray in November, there was no stone but she was on Baytil at the time so I just don't no if she just has a real bad infection that has kept coming back since then.
I am really hoping that this Tuesday will get to the bottom of things and will be the end of Connie's problems as her bladder wasn't flushed the last time.
I suppose what I am trying to say is when is enough, enough? If she needs to have an op on Tuesday, should I make it the last one or if a stone should come back afterwards, should I just keep paying out and making her go through all the pain again? I don't like asking questions like this but I'd just like to know other peoples opinions. If you would rather your answers be kept confidential, PM me if you like xx
 
I'm so sorry to hear that Connie just doesn't seem to get better. All I can say is, in my opinion it's a matter of quality of life. I tend to keep going with my piggies as long as they are eating and drinking - if they're still fighting, so do I. They tend to give up when they know it's time.

She's not an old piggy - I would do whatever needs doing on Tuesday and take it one step at time. You're doing all you can for her.

Sophie
x
 
Claire, I'm so sorry about Connie - she and you have had more than your fair share of troubles in recent months. But I totally agree with all that Sophie has said - Connie's quality of life is most important, and you are the one closest to her and can monitor it.

Kisses to Connie and hugs to you, because I know what a wretched time you've been having. x>>
 
Awwwwww I'm so sorry :(
As long as you know your little girl has a chance to get better and she is quite happy, eating and drinking and you are prepared to do what you can for her then I would not give up hope of her getting better :) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
I personally feel while there's a chance, no matter how slim, that she can get through this, then you keep trying.

Stones and infections *can* both be cured once accurately diagnosed and suitably treated, although sadly sometimes they don't make it (I'm thinking more stones here, having been through that hell).

Hopefully you'll finally be able to get the diagnosis and treatment for her that she needs, and hopefully she will be better. I certainly wouldn't stop trying while there's still that hope, however tiny it may seem.

On a medication note, with the oblig. disclaimer about not being a vet - A good dose of Septrin might be just the thing to shift this. By good, I mean around 0.6ml (depending on her size) twice a day, and 0.1ml (again, size depending) of Metacam too. The antibiotic would need to be given for at least ten days at that level, and probably more like three weeks. It sounds like she's very prone to this infection and so it will have become quite deep seated I suspect, so hitting it hard with the meds would be the way to go, in my opinion. If it's not been treated with suitable amounts or types of medication then it can be very easy to think nothing can be done, and start to lose faith. Been there, done that, got the pellet mash spat all over it T shirt...
 
You know i really don't know what to say to you over this, i understand where you are coming from on the money side but also from Connie's point of view. All i can do is send you loads of ((((hugs))))
 
Its a tough call because you cant just keep dishing out money I understand that. But as its been said Connie is a young pig and there is every chance this will clear up.

Maybe its time to get Connie insured? (((hugs))) x
 
I don't think insuring would help in this case, as no insurance will cover 'pre-existing' conditions - they would only pay out for something new (and unrelated).

x
 
It's just to cover themselves... I learnt the hard way with my labrador, who has got degenerative arthritis in his joints (has had since a pup) but because I got the insurance wrong, they excluded all joint-related conditions when I renewed the next year!

Anyhow... a bit off topic!

Perhaps putting some money aside each month in a 'vets bills' pot would help?

Sophie
x
 
I agree it is a waste and putting money aside is probably better. :)
 
From the symptoms you have described I can see no reason why, with the correct diagnosis and treatment, the condition should not be cured. As you say it does appear to be a UTI, better treated by Septrin than Baytril. Small bladder stones cannot be felt by hand, it does need an xray to confirm presence/absence of a stone/s. You can carry out a relatively effective, non-invasive bladder flush yourself just by giving her cranberry juice, syringe-fed if necessary. If you, or rather the pig, are lucky she will readily take the juice herself. A friend's pig, with a bladder stone, this week was drinking over 30ml per day, without having to be "persuaded".
I would certainly carry on treating her.
 
oh claire,i hate the fact that you have to think of this. i love connie and eliza to bits, so i'm very biased and say dont pts just yet, but in reality you have to do what you feel is right. i know you'll do the right thing. xxxxxxxxxxx
 
stargrrlclaire said:
oh claire,i hate the fact that you have to think of this. i love connie and eliza to bits, so i'm very biased and say dont pts just yet, but in reality you have to do what you feel is right. i know you'll do the right thing. xxxxxxxxxxx
Click to expand...

Hopefully I will never have to do that but just want to hear other peoples opinions. Aww I love your girls and Sonny too x
 
Wishing you all the best for Tuesday, I agree with the others x

I also recommend you email Chrissie at Gorgeous Guineas. One of her pigs had long term ongoing bladder issues and she tested a product designed for humans called `uriflow`which helps illiminate sludge and formation of stones. It wouldn't hurt to get some more info on it!

http://www.gorgeousguineas.com/documents/Marbles Bladder Stones.pdf
 
Claire, sorry to hear about Connie...
My opinion is that if your animal isn't ready to go, you owe it to them to try.
6 weeks ago we thought Bertie had had his call to the Bridge and I was starting to question his quality of life. I was in such anguish that he was suffering but he recovered well.
Last night, at my 3rd visit to the vets in 3 days, the vet said he was a fighter and I said he didn't really have a choice but she thought he could have given up ages ago and refused to eat/drink etc but no he takes all his treatments -not always too keenly- and we're so happy he's with us. So, if it doesn't feel like the time has come, then it's because it hasn't.
 
Poor Connie ... bless her!

I admire you for asking "when is enough, enough?" because everyone has their own views on this.

I know some people are against euthanasia and I respect that.
I hated the time I had my beloved labrador, Gemma, put to sleep :(.
I don't regret that I did it as I knew that her quality of life was so poor that it was not fair on her to carry on but I do regret the way in which I did it. I took her to the vet and sat with her on the floor in the vet as she passed away ... I only wish I had the guts to ask the vet to come to the house, but it was a case of well I might bring her home if the vet thinks she is ok, and that was the only way I could deal with it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

I always go with my gut feeling on euthanasia ... if I feel that there is no hope or the only hope is pain and suffering for the animal just in the hope that everything will be ok, then I think very deeply about it.

I really hope that everything will work out ok for Connie ... I am keeping my fingers crossed for her. She is young and that will go in her favour.
 
I know only too well your dilemma, especially if it keeps dragging on. I kept Minx going so long (and lost half a fortune!), because she was such a fighter and so wanted to live! The decision, when and where, was probably the hardest of my life and has haunted me ever since, even though I know that I HAVE done the right thing at the right time!

Unfortunately,there are those situations and is something nobody else can do for you, because there is no clear right or wrong! But as you have nursed poor Connie through so far, I would give it chance for this time, especially if is not a bladder stone!

PS: Minx's smaller bladder stone operation after an x-ray cost about £50 with aftercare, but medication not included back in 2007.

PS:
 
I am sorry to hear that poor Connie has had lots & lots of medical problems. I have had guineas who have had various medical problems & I always try and do what is right for them. I currently have a piggy who has bumblefoot & I have chosen not to go down the route of vet trips & treatment because I know in my heart of hearts that he is dying. He can still run around & is always the first pig out for the cucumber, so I am certain I am doing the right thing for him.

On the point of euthanasia personally I can't do it. I would rather they die at home, with me, where possible. I did have my beloved Fudge who became very sick & I was certain he was going to die, but I took him to the vets to try everything possible to treat him. He died, sadly not with me, but I was happy with my decision to try and help him.

Do what your heart & Connie is telling you to do. If she is saying she has had enough then decide about whether to have her at home with you or have her pts. If she is still wanting to fight & live then you have your answer.

My manly quintet send healing hugs & squeaks to Connie. xx>>>xx>>>

Michele
xxxxx
 
Hi Claire. I tend to agree with what everyone else has said. If she's still eating and drinking then I would definately continue with treatment, etc. If there's a chance, no matter how small, I'd definately give Connie a chance :)
 
This is a subject very close to my heart because, as I said in PM, I've got 3 girls who have had bladder problems for almost 2 years now, and they haven't been cured. I'm very aware that their lives aren't quite as happy as they would be without the problem, but I can also see that they are getting a lot of out life, and are still happy the vast majority of the time (save possibly Holly, who I've just started a separate thread about - she seems to have other issues).

As others have said, I think all you can do is try to measure their quality of life in some way - I think we all know a happy piggy when we see one.

Thinking of you. x
 
lavenderjade said:
Wishing you all the best for Tuesday, I agree with the others x

I also recommend you email Chrissie at Gorgeous Guineas. One of her pigs had long term ongoing bladder issues and she tested a product designed for humans called `uriflow`which helps illiminate sludge and formation of stones. It wouldn't hurt to get some more info on it!

http://www.gorgeousguineas.com/documents/Marbles Bladder Stones.pdf
Click to expand...

I've used this. I might even still have some in the cupboard that's in date if you wanted to try it (will check).
 
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