Where to go from here?

[Sara’s Piggies]

So I started introductions today...I ready every thing I could on doing introductions to prep before hand. The plan was to put Dexter with Phoebe and Lumen, and put Ezra with Wilma and Quinn. It’s early but Dexter seems to be getting along very well with his two new ladies. Everything with them has been fairly uneventful/ normal.

Things with Ezra, Wilma and Quinn did not go as easy. They tested limits right up to the edge on and off today until Wilma and Ezra got into an all out fight and needed to be separated. They are both fine but obviously can’t live together. Ezra is in a cage of his own right now Wilma and Quinn are still together. I’m wondering what my best course of action is now. Should I try Wilma and Quinn with Dexter tomorrow and put Ezra with Phoebe and Lumen? Should I try Wilma with Dexter,Lumen and Phoebe? I don’t know which option is best. Everything is going so well with Dexter, Lumen and Phoebe I feel terrible things didn’t work out with Ezra and his girls

 

[Siikibam]

Do you think a swap would work?, based on personalities?

An option could be to put Ezra in a cage next to the girls so they can interact through the bars but not get to each other.

Someone more knowledgable will be along in the morning to give a more comprehensive answer.

Bonding is such a testing time isn’t it

 

[Claire5012]

Sorry to hear this, it must be very frustrating for you. Who seems to be the problem? Is Wilma the bully or would you say that Ezra instigated the fight? If Wilma seems to be the problem and doesn't like Ezra, are your other 2 girls a bit more easy going for him? I would work around each of their personalities and which pig seems to be the dominant 1 and who you think would match that pig better if all of your others are a little more easy going.

 

[Sara’s Piggies]

Ezra is a fairly dominant boar. Him and Wilma had the most problems. Quinn stayed out of everything for the most part and submitted to Ezra right away. Several times it looked like Wilma was trying to be the boss or they were pretty evenly matched. She looked like more of the aggressor

Do you think a swap would work?, based on personalities?

An option could be to put Ezra in a cage next to the girls so they can interact through the bars but not get to each other.

Someone more knowledgable will be along in the morning to give a more comprehensive answer.

Bonding is such a testing time isn’t it

I think swapping Dexter and Ezra has a possibility of working as Dexter is a very laid back boar. When he lived with Ezra he was bottom piggo. There is never any for sites though. I’ve also just considered giving Ezra his own cage and putting up against the 2 other cages so he can interact with everyone but still be safe. Introductions are so stressful

 

[Sara’s Piggies]

Sorry to hear this, it must be very frustrating for you. Who seems to be the problem? Is Wilma the bully or would you say that Ezra instigated the fight? If Wilma seems to be the problem and doesn't like Ezra, are your other 2 girls a bit more easy going for him? I would work around each of their personalities and which pig seems to be the dominant 1 and who you think would match that pig better if all of your others are a little more easy going.

Wilma seemed to be most of the problem. Ezra obviously wanted to be in charge but Wilma would not let that go. She actually chased him a couple times and he would run away for her. She even got him to give up food to her. Wilma did pretty much the same thing when we tried to introduce all the girls together once. I worry she will likely do the same to Dexter. I feel like Ezra made attempts to show he wasn’t trying to be aggressive (sharing food, grooming, etc.).

 

[Claire5012]

When I introduced my pigs for the first time I was so anxious. I was lucky but yes, it is a stressful time. Thing is, as stressful as it is, you will never know if she will get on with Dexter until you try it. Can they meet through bars first? You might find that she really takes to him. If she decides she doesn't like Dexter, I would go back to your original set up of 3 pairs

 

[Sara’s Piggies]

Is that and option? I had heard once males have been with females they likely won’t go back to living with another male. I could be wrong. I vaguely remember reading that.
I also have the option of putting either Phoebe or Lumen with Ezra. That would still give me 3 sets of two. 2 female/male pairs and one female pair. I have options I just wanna do what is best for them. I’d hate to separate Phoebe and Lumen though. Part of me wishes I never tried this. I know I’m being harsh on myself and I knew their were no guarantees.

 

[Claire5012]

I've never heard that before! I might be wrong and it might be worth researching that a bit more or waiting for other forum members to comment when were not in such unsociable hours like us night owls I personally would wait and see what other people say about putting your boys back together again if that's what you think will be best. Be aware though that you will be starting the whole introduction with them all over again. You have so many combinations of pigs that could go with another pig, no wonder you're getting stressed out. Try not to over think it too much. At the end of the day, they will either get on or not and you will never truly know the outcome until you try them together. It will always be, until then, an educated guess.

 

[Sara’s Piggies]

I've never heard that before! I might be wrong and it might be worth researching that a bit more or waiting for other forum members to comment when were not in such unsociable hours like us night owls I personally would wait and see what other people say about putting your boys back together again if that's what you think will be best. Be aware though that you will be starting the whole introduction with them all over again. You have so many combinations of pigs that could go with another pig, no wonder you're getting stressed out. Try not to over think it too much. At the end of the day, they will either get on or not and you will never truly know the outcome until you try them together. It will always be, until then, an educated guess.

Yes this is true. I will never be able to control the outcome. Either way I have options, it almost feels like too many lol Right now Ezra is in a cage of his own up against the cage with Dexter, Phoebe and Lumen for the night. He seems to be happy with this for now. I live in the United States so I’m assuming most of the replies will come when I’m sleeping.

 

[Claire5012]

Oh right lol. I didn't notice you weren't from the UK Yes I would b expecting some more answers in about 6 hours time. I hope you manage to sort something out soon but in the mean time, try not to worry too much. You will be able to sort something out.

 

[Sara’s Piggies]

@Wiebke @sport_billy Any suggestions where to start? I thought about it a lot last night. I think Wilma will likely always be a problem with everyone but Quinn. So it looks like I’m going back to 3 sets of 2. Dexter, Phoebe and Lumen are together right now and Ezra is in a cage by himself next to the others. I could take Lumen and try her with Ezra. She’s a pretty non-confrontational sow and Ezra is more dominant.

 

[Wiebke]

@Wiebke @sport_billy Any suggestions where to start? I thought about it a lot last night. I think Wilma will likely always be a problem with everyone but Quinn. So it looks like I’m going back to 3 sets of 2. Dexter, Phoebe and Lumen are together right now and Ezra is in a cage by himself next to the others. I could take Lumen and try her with Ezra. She’s a pretty non-confrontational sow and Ezra is more dominant.

We don't know your piggies the way you do. You generally start with the most likely piggy/combination and then work your way through your list of internal options before you look at bonding with an outside piggy; generally a young one if you do not have access to a rescue that offers piggy dating on adoption day.

I am currently doing the same with my newly bereaved Pioden and my several pairs of tricky sows.

 

[Sara’s Piggies]

We don't know your piggies the way you do. You generally start with the most likely piggy/combination and then work your way through your list of internal options before you look at bonding with an outside piggy; generally a young one if you do not have access to a rescue that offers piggy dating on adoption day.

I am currently doing the same with my newly bereaved Pioden and my several pairs of tricky sows.

Thanks 2 questions: 1. Is putting the boys back together and returning to my original pairs an option? I thought I read once males live with females the won’t go back to living with another male. I could be wrong or misread.
2. If I do try Lumen with Ezra should I give her a bath first to get the Dexter smell off her?

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks 2 questions: 1. Is putting the boys back together and returning to my original pairs an option? I thought I read once males live with females the won’t go back to living with another male. I could be wrong or misread.
2. If I do try Lumen with Ezra should I give her a bath first to get the Dexter smell off her?

Boars are generally not happy to be relegated to the bachelor league after living with sows, but it all depends on the personality mix (dominant or not) and the age - older boars past their testosterone output may be OK, younger boars rather not.
As long as they haven't had a major fight and are not forced to leave any sows they are still bonded with, there is a small chance it may work. No piggy is happy to be ripped out of a working relationship, irrespective of gender because guinea pigs identify themselves as a member of a group before they identify as an individual in my own experience with piggy juggling.

If you rip apart any working groups, give the piggies time to get used to be on their own (which includes cleaning themselves and getting rid of the group smell) to be more open for a new relationship; living next to each other in a divided bonding pen for a few days to get to know each other and settle down gives you a better chance. If you just pick them up and into a bonding pen, buddy bath or not, you are facing a pretty guaranteed fail.
In our own forum members' experience, buddy baths are one of these things that have been a fad when social media has taken off and have made it into the bible of online urban myths, but in practice they don't work out. All they do is delay the bonding process and stress out the piggies unnecessarily.

Please take the time to read this comprehensive guide here (it also has a chapter on buddy baths): Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
My new boar guide, which you may also find helpful: A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

 

[Sara’s Piggies]

Boars are generally not happy to be relegated to the bachelor league after living with sows, but it all depends on the personality mix (dominant or not) and the age - older boars past their testosterone output may be OK, younger boars rather not.
As long as they haven't had a major fight and are not forced to leave any sows they are still bonded with, there is a small chance it may work. No piggy is happy to be ripped out of a working relationship, irrespective of gender because guinea pigs identify themselves as a member of a group before they identify as an individual in my own experience with piggy juggling.

If you rip apart any working groups, give the piggies time to get used to be on their own (which includes cleaning themselves and getting rid of the group smell) to be more open for a new relationship; living next to each other in a divided bonding pen for a few days to get to know each other and settle down gives you a better chance. If you just pick them up and into a bonding pen, buddy bath or not, you are facing a pretty guaranteed fail.
In our own forum members' experience, buddy baths are one of these things that have been a fad when social media has taken off and have made it into the bible of online urban myths, but in practice they don't work out. All they do is delay the bonding process and stress out the piggies unnecessarily.

Please take the time to read this comprehensive guide here (it also has a chapter on buddy baths): Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
My new boar guide, which you may also find helpful: A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

Thank You, I had read both of these before starting all this. This is my first time doing introductions though It’s terribly stressful and I can’t help but feel like I failed them. I know this is not the case and I ultimately can’t control the outcome even if I do everything perfect.

You said the boys potentially go back together. The are about 2 1/2 years old. Ezra is a lot more dominant than Dexter. Ezra is by himself right now. Dexter is with his 2 girls, he has only been with them for a day and a half. Is this considered bonded? Can I try keeping Dexter and Ezra in a divided cage for a couple days and reintroduce. I’m sorry if I’m asking a lot of questions. I just wanna be sure I have correct information.