Wild Rats?!?!

[Pigalig]

Hello
For a few years now we've frequently seen little field mice scooting in and out of our garden, stealing the odd meusli treat from the guinea pigs run and shuttling off again. This has never seemed to be an issue health wise for my pigs as i make sure hygiene is top notch and their aren't massove numbers around. However today my mum swore she saw a rat. BAD NEWS! After triple checking the run I am sure there is no rat sized holes anywhere, so I'm happy about cross contamination risks, but even so, how much would you guys worry? And also if we have to get environmental health in to deal with them how much risk does that put my pigs in?
Thanks

 

[Connie]

We had a rat problem a few years back, but letting our terrier out at the right time of night, and moving things to expose their nest delt with the problem.

I would say its definatly worth getting someone out, babies can get through small holes, and can be very agressive toward other animals. One of my friends guinea pigs was mauled by a rat (she went out to check the hutch in the morning, the rat was happily sat their eating the piggy food!) (thankfully the piggy survived)

I'm not sure about the risk to the pigs, environmental health will probably just put poison down. Hopefully someone else will be able to help RE that.

 

[Abi_nurse]

Rats usually carry very similar diseases to mice. Contray to belief even in the wild they are relatively clean animals. The only one major disease that they can carry that i know of is leptospirosis which can effect dogs and humans. The the bacteria does not survive long in the environment so its highly unlikely you or any dogs would catch it. (but ob not impossible either).

I'm not sure about rats behaviour towards piggies, sorry.

Get yourself a cat. lol. If you call someone out they will put poison down, i hate poisen, causes more harm than good. Try and get some humane traps maybe and relocate them if your worried.

Not sure what to suggest sorry.

x.

 

[Little Pig]

I'm anti poison too - against killing any animal, but that seems like a particularly nasty way to go. Also, what is to stop other animals eating the poison too?

 

[Pigalig]

Thanks guys. This is my issue I can't have poison down where my piggies are. And I don't think they are nesting in my garden, i have a feeling I know what garden they would be attracted to, but that's put me at ease that no-one has said OMG THEY WILL KILL THEM, so next step is environmental health.

 

[Pebble]

I live next to a stream and frequently had problems with rats nesting in the compost bin or the shed. I have had a rat leap out of my dustbin onto my shoulder one night when I was putting out the rubbish. One year there was a population explosion in the banks of the stream and things got a lot worse so I'm afraid I have no hesitation in using poisoned bait at the nest sites

Rats also carry Yersinia pseudotuberculosis. Pigs and humans can catch it. I had to have all my pigs tested when they developed a mystery illness as this was the first thing the vet thought it might be in view of the rat problem I had had. Luckily the pigs were negative otherwise they would have been put to sleep because of the risk to humans.

If a rat has babies to feed it can get quite desperate/bold. I have watched one climb up a 60cm cage stand to try and gnaw its way into my piggies wooden hutch in broad daylight not 10 yards from where i was standing. In less than 5 minutes it had got halfay through the doorframe.A desperate rat is capable of causing serious harm to a guinea pig (or even kill them for food - rats will eat anything including lawn fertiliser, garden chemicals and plastic refuse bins) and I now keep my piggies indoors.


If you use poisoned bait you need to be aware that warfarin is excreted and therefore if guinea pigs graze in an area where a rat has urinated, there is a possibility they can ingest some. If you can isolate an area of grass (which it sounds like you have) so rats can;t run across it then that should protect the pigs.

Hopefully Environmental health will send out a good pest control expert (the first one I had didn;t know how to trace the runs back to the nests whilst the second one did) and they will decide what action to take and whether to use bait or traps.

Thankfully following a big flood, my rat population has been virtually wiped out Unfortunately I now have a bigger problem with an extremely brazen fox (stupid neighbour has been feeding it mallethead....after I told her off for feeding the rats malletheadmallethead) He strolls through my garden several times a day in broad daylinght and often sits outside my lounge window waiting for "guinea pig lunch" to appear!


Good luck
x

 

[Little Pig]

If you use poisoned bait you need to be aware that warfarin is excreted and therefore if guinea pigs graze in an area where a rat has urinated, there is a possibility they can ingest some. If you can isolate an area of grass (which it sounds like you have) so rats can;t run across it then that should protect the pigs.

x

So rat poison would also pose a risk to other garden animals, such as birds, hedgehogs, local cats etc?

Sorry, but I can't agree with the idea of deliberately poisoning wildlife. My family leave food (containing mange treatment) for local foxes, feeds the birds and squirrels, have a hedgehog nesting box and a family of mice under the shed. It is lovely to look out in my mum's garden and see all the happy animals. I love all animals and don't distinguish just because they are wild.

 

[Connie]

While i understand the idea of "lets protect all the lovely wildlife" If the option is poison or having my guinea pig mauled by a rat... I'm going to go with the poison every time.

 

[Midge&Panda]

We've recently had a rat problem whereas the cat has been catching/killing them and bringing in them into the house. We called EH, they turned up and checked for signs of a rat problem but found none. The cat was catching them elsewhere. He would have put poison into the nest holes if any were found because the pigs arent outside there was no major concern for their safety. He mentioned that grains/seeds are one of rats favourite foods and advised us to keep wild bird food off of the floor. I dont know if you feed the birds but something to consider.

 

[fluff]

adult rats will and do kill guineapigs and baby rabbits, i would be very concerned to find evidence of rats or mice, extermination is the only answer, they can chew through cage wire and will wee/poop in food dishes,
get rid of them asap and keep things very very clean and tidy and make sure any spillage is cleared up throughly.

 

[Pigalig]

Hmm I think I'm getting the jist. Environmental health are coming round Tuesday, and the bloke on the phone said although they will probably use poison, its placed inside traps so its more controlled. I'm sad that this will most likely kill my little mouse friends too, and I don't even think its our garden that needs to be targeted, but we will see how it goes. Pebble your hutch gnawing story is slightly worrying..! But only one has been seen so far :S next door but 1 has suddenly turned their garden into a refuge area with an old sofa and about 15 full bin bags out there. Don't quite know what's going on but if there is one place that would attract scavenging animals...
If in doubt the pigs shall just have to come and take over the front room again like they did when it snowed
Thanks for the warnings.

 

[Pebble]

So rat poison would also pose a risk to other garden animals, such as birds, hedgehogs, local cats etc?
.

I hadn't intended to spend the afternoon researching this topic but you have made some good points and given me cause for concern about my local wildlife.

Apparently humans are always no more than one metre away from a rat - but the odd one or two is not usually a problem and can be trapped. In the case of a severe rat infestation where trapping is not feasible however I continue to think responsible use of poison is justified.

The level of risk to wildlife depends upon whether you are using first generation rodenticides (including warfarin) or newer second generation rodenticides. The former have a low risk of poisoning non-target species - so as long as direct access to bait is restricted to prevent primary poisoning, there is little risk of secondary (indirect) poisoning from contact with poisoned rodents. One exception is that because guinea pigs are small and graze grass, there is a potential risk to them of secondary poisoning if the grass is covered in rat wee containing warfarin and they consume enough quantity in a short space of time to reach a toxic level.

It is the second generation poisons (superwarfarins) that appear to be the problem for wildlife and unfortunately owing to warfarin resistance, these new chemicals comprise most of our currently available rat poisons The risk (again providing acess to bait is restricted) is mainly to those animals further up the food chain that eat the rats (ie cats, birds of prey, foxes - thankfully not hedgehogs) and the two chemicals most implicated in the past of poisoning wildlife ( flocoumafen and brodifacoum) are now banned from outdoor use and can only be used indoors where it can be shown that the rodents concerned are primarily eating/living within the enclosed structure.

To prevent primary poisoning it is important that access to bait by other animals is restricted. Bait boxes are designed in this way to prevent particularly birds, domestic pets and children gaining access. In my case we put bait in plastic bags adn stuffed it into the entrance burrows of the rat nest - inaccessible to any animal but the rats themselves. Smaller rodents (such as field mice etc) would not go anywhere near a rats nest or somewhere rats are inhabiting (they vacate my compost bins when a rat moves in) so there is no danger they would eat the bait.


I cannot find any data to suggest these 2nd generation poisons are excreted in the urine but I recall that they can be found in small quantity in rat poos (but rat poos are not a food source for wildlife - and have you smelt them yeuk >>>). The main risk of secondary poisoning is to rat predators - ie cats, foxes, birds of prey. However the 2nd generation poisons only require to be used for a very short time as they act very quickly and therefore this dramatically reduces the exposure risk to wildlife. Also, with reference to scavengers, it is very unusual for a rat to die out in the open from poisoning - they normally die in situ in the burrow...(or shed...or compost bin) although sometimes you find youngsters out in the open that could be scavenged by magpies/cats/foxes. Part of responsible baiting is to patrol for dead bodies and dispose of them properly so they can;t be scavenged.

Thankfully after all this research today, I am relatively confident that I have acted responsibly and haven;t poisoned any of my (welcome and guinea pig-friendly ) garden visitors by my actions.

If the rat population increases again I would do the same thing. Waiting that week for the test results to know whether my piggies would have to be removed and destroyed means the health and welfare of my piggies will always take priority over Mr Fox Mr Rat and Mr Magpie.

Cats would be my biggest concern - but judging from the two feral "ratters" I've had on my property these last 13 years, they tend to "play" rather than "eat" rats (mice may be a different story)..and their toxicity level is significantly higher than dogs.

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