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Winifred has a lump - advice appreciated

Qualcast&Flymo

Qualcast&Flymo

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Several things started to concern me about my 3 year old sow, Winifred, earlier this week, so I have been to the vet with her this morning. As the vet felt that further investigation and treatment at this stage at least wouldn't help, I wondered if people with more experience than me would agree if this is the case.

The background is, I took all threee of my pigs for a general health check in late July, before I went on holiday. Squeaks and Rosemary were fine, had lost a little weight since their previous check late last year, but nothing concerning. Winifred however had gained a little, and the vet noticed a lump under her nipple, about 1cm across but mobile. The vet's advice was to monitor it, and come back if it grew etc. I've been weighing them regularly since, and checking the lump too.
In the last few weeks I've wondered if the lump was getting bigger, but I couldn't be sure - if it's growing, it's not doing so rapidly. Then on Sunday evening, after they had been out on the grass on Saturday, I noticed that Winnie's breathing sounded honky much of the time. I waited to see if it would stop, in case it was due to something stuck in her nostril, it did eventually go away by Tuesday evening, though I was wondering if she had a URI or heart/lung issue. In the meantime, when I did the regular weigh-in during cage cleans on Monday, I realised that I had missed weighing them since the 11th, and Winnie had lost 70g in that time. So I weighed her again yesterday, and she was down another 40g. Her weight has been up and down a bit during August & early September, but she has overall lost about 160g in 2 months, which is obviously concerning.

The vet today thought that as she is loosing weight, and the lump feels fairly solid and a bit knobbly, it is more likely to be something nasty - ie a tumour I guess - and she felt that it has probably already started to spread so there wouldn't be much point in operating to remove it, or even doing a biopsy, as even if we know it is a tumour, we cannot cure it. The honky breathing may be related, but equally isn't necessarily connected. She didn't prescribe Metacam or anything else as she doesn't think Winnie is in pain at present either.

Does that diagnosis sound correct, and is there really nothing that can be done if it is? I'm happy to take her to see other vets if a vet with greater experience with guineas might be able to do more.

Thanks for reading and any advice! x
 
Hi! I am very sorry about the bad news.

I would personally go for a second opinion on her mammary tumour but chances are that it is now too far gone unfortunately.
Ideally any lumps in this area are removed as a precaution as soon as they are noticed because while by far not all are malign, even benign ones or harmless cysts/fatty lumps in that area can cause discomfort and can spread.
 
Hi! I am very sorry about the bad news.

I would personally go for a second opinion on her mammary tumour but chances are that it is now too far gone unfortunately.
Ideally any lumps in this area are removed as a precaution as soon as they are noticed because while by far not all are malign, even benign ones or harmless cysts/fatty lumps in that area can cause discomfort and can spread.
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:(
Thank you. So you think the vet is most likely correct in her diagnosis, it doesn't sound like a fatty lump or something else? I asked if anything could have been done if I had gone for it as soon as I was told about the lump, but the vet thought not. I suppose I ought really to be doing regular manual checks on my sow's tummies, the same as I check Squeaks' bits in case of a post-neuter abscess developing, to pick up on them early on..

I might see if I can get an appointment at the Cat & Rabbit Clinic. If Simon or Kim Maddock concur with my vet's diagnosis then I can be pretty sure it's correct.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
:(
Thank you. So you think the vet is most likely correct in her diagnosis, it doesn't sound like a fatty lump or something else? I asked if anything could have been done if I had gone for it as soon as I was told about the lump, but the vet thought not. I suppose I ought really to be doing regular manual checks on my sow's tummies, the same as I check Squeaks' bits in case of a post-neuter abscess developing, to pick up on them early on..

I might see if I can get an appointment at the Cat & Rabbit Clinic. If Simon or Kim Maddock concur with my vet's diagnosis then I can be pretty sure it's correct.
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All the best!

PS: Piggies of both genders can get mammary tumours, but giving a weekly body onceover together with weighing can help.
 
I've made an appointment at the Cat and Rabbit clinic for a second opinion etc. I'll be seeing Simon on Wednesday morning. I'm prepared for bad news, but hope he can give me some guidance on how things are likely to go and if there's anything I can do to help Winifred either now or in the future.
 
So sorry you’re in this situation.
Holding you in my heart.
Hope Wednesday brings some clarity for you
 
Thank you, @Merab's Slave , much appreciated.
At least Squeaks and Rosemary seem to be doing fine. I've not had single piggie that hasn't had its life shortened by illness so far, I hope they will buck that trend. 🙏
 
Oh this is awful news, I have no experience myself of unexplained long term lumps and bumps but personally I would want to second opinion and a needle biopsy before accepting a diagnosis as something terminal. When Tallulah had a needle biopsy on her abscess it was a 5 minute thing done with a squirt of local anaesthetic on the skin around the lump, she squirmed and squealed a bit but it was a quick procedure not much worse than any injection.
Hugs and healing wheeks, of course you should be realistic, but just an external feel may not be enough for a proper diagnosis x
 
Thanks everyone for your kind thoughts.
My vets are pretty good overall, but I don't think they see a great number of guineas. I'm sure Simon sees lots more different lumps and bumps and can usually tell what they are, as well as not being fazed by doing a needle biopsy on a wriggly small animal. We'll see what he thinks.
I guess I'm lucky in that I'm not too far from Northampton so going there for a second opinion isn't a massive issue :nod:
 
We saw Simon this morning. He couldn't say for definite whether it is a tumour or just a fatty lump - apparently in piggies fatty lumps are often quite firm too, not squidgy as in dogs etc. Whatever it is, he thinks that it would be best to surgically remove it, in the next few weeks because it if continues to grow at the same rate it will become quite uncomfortable for her. There is (a small) chance that it isn't a tumour and even if it is, he thinks it may still be just the one, so removing it would hopefully cure it.
Although it doesn't change the fact that surgery is really the only way forward, I decided to have a needle biopsy done, to see if it can provide a definite answer to what the lump is and help me prepare. Simon will call when the results are back in a week, and we'll take it from there. Though I've just remembered that he did say that the fact that the sample started to dry on the slide pointed to it not being fatty .... At least where having surgery is concerned, Winnie has her age and general health on her side, and her weight seems to be stabilising the last week which is positive.

I have to admit, now's not the best time to be contemplating the expense and time involved in veterinary surgery, with a house move in a month to prepare for, and trying to cut back our expenditure generally, but if we have to, we have to. I'm crossing my fingers for a positive outcome.
 
I have everything crossed for Winifred. I've noticed these things never happen when there's nothing else going on! Sending you and Winifred my very best wishes.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
We saw Simon this morning. He couldn't say for definite whether it is a tumour or just a fatty lump - apparently in piggies fatty lumps are often quite firm too, not squidgy as in dogs etc. Whatever it is, he thinks that it would be best to surgically remove it, in the next few weeks because it if continues to grow at the same rate it will become quite uncomfortable for her. There is (a small) chance that it isn't a tumour and even if it is, he thinks it may still be just the one, so removing it would hopefully cure it.
Although it doesn't change the fact that surgery is really the only way forward, I decided to have a needle biopsy done, to see if it can provide a definite answer to what the lump is and help me prepare. Simon will call when the results are back in a week, and we'll take it from there. Though I've just remembered that he did say that the fact that the sample started to dry on the slide pointed to it not being fatty .... At least where having surgery is concerned, Winnie has her age and general health on her side, and her weight seems to be stabilising the last week which is positive.

I have to admit, now's not the best time to be contemplating the expense and time involved in veterinary surgery, with a house move in a month to prepare for, and trying to cut back our expenditure generally, but if we have to, we have to. I'm crossing my fingers for a positive outcome.
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Fingers firmly crossed!

At least Winnie will be in very experienced hands.

My Gethin had an emergency operation there just a month ago when a tiny lump on his chest suddenly literally blew up out of nowhere; thankfully in his case it was a fatty lump and not a tumour, as feared.

I am very sorry for the unfortunate timing.
 
Thank you @Wiebke !
I didn't originally book an appointment for surgery while I was there yesterday, but in view of the difficult timing and the need to have it done soon, I think I'll call in the morning and get it booked in. I can always cancel if the biopsy results say it's a highly aggressive cancer and it's not worth operating. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it - at the moment, except for the lump, she seems happy and healthy.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
Thank you @Wiebke !
I didn't originally book an appointment for surgery while I was there yesterday, but in view of the difficult timing and the need to have it done soon, I think I'll call in the morning and get it booked in. I can always cancel if the biopsy results say it's a highly aggressive cancer and it's not worth operating. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it - at the moment, except for the lump, she seems happy and healthy.
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All the best! I fully sympathise with the cost after two major operations this month... :(
 
Simon M called yesterday with the results of the needle biopsy etc. Unfortunately there weren't enough cells to produce a definitive result, however Simon said that in his experience that would tend to point towards the lump being some kind of tumour. (Because it's harder to get the hard cells of a tumour into a neeedle than it is the softer cells of a fatty lump.) He is still hopeful that the growth is confined to the one lump, and removing it will give her a good quality of life for a good while yet. I hope he is right!
As it happens, I had already last Friday made an appointment for surgery for the 22nd, that being the first day when they had space and I had the whole day free. I will take her with Rosemary as company first thing, and I've asked if they can stay overnight so she doesn't have a long bumpy ride home straight after having tummy surgery, and so I don't have to hang around Northampton all day. So we shall see what happens then. In the meantime I'm keeping an eye on her and the lump, she seems happy and her weight is stable so far ...
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
Simon M called yesterday with the results of the needle biopsy etc. Unfortunately there weren't enough cells to produce a definitive result, however Simon said that in his experience that would tend to point towards the lump being some kind of tumour. (Because it's harder to get the hard cells of a tumour into a neeedle than it is the softer cells of a fatty lump.) He is still hopeful that the growth is confined to the one lump, and removing it will give her a good quality of life for a good while yet. I hope he is right!
As it happens, I had already last Friday made an appointment for surgery for the 22nd, that being the first day when they had space and I had the whole day free. I will take her with Rosemary as company first thing, and I've asked if they can stay overnight so she doesn't have a long bumpy ride home straight after having tummy surgery, and so I don't have to hang around Northampton all day. So we shall see what happens then. In the meantime I'm keeping an eye on her and the lump, she seems happy and her weight is stable so far ...
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All the best for the op!

I have made the same arrangements for both Gethin's lumpectomy and Mererid's spay last month; they both stayed overnight with their companion.
 
Wiebke said:
All the best for the op!

I have made the same arrangements for both Gethin's lumpectomy and Mererid's spay last month; they both stayed overnight with their companion.
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Thank you! I'll certainly feel happier knowing that she is in their experienced care in the immediate post op hours while the anaesthetic is still leaving her system and she is starting to recover. It must be far more major surgery than the bladder stone removal/ amputation/neutering ops that I've sent piggies for previously.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
Thank you! I'll certainly feel happier knowing that she is in their experienced care in the immediate post op hours while the anaesthetic is still leaving her system and she is starting to recover. It must be far more major surgery than the bladder stone removal/ amputation/neutering ops that I've sent piggies for previously.
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It depends on the location and easy access - but as long as the lump is still contained, it is hopefully a fairly straight forward procedure to get it out.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
Simon M called yesterday with the results of the needle biopsy etc. Unfortunately there weren't enough cells to produce a definitive result, however Simon said that in his experience that would tend to point towards the lump being some kind of tumour. (Because it's harder to get the hard cells of a tumour into a neeedle than it is the softer cells of a fatty lump.) He is still hopeful that the growth is confined to the one lump, and removing it will give her a good quality of life for a good while yet. I hope he is right!
As it happens, I had already last Friday made an appointment for surgery for the 22nd, that being the first day when they had space and I had the whole day free. I will take her with Rosemary as company first thing, and I've asked if they can stay overnight so she doesn't have a long bumpy ride home straight after having tummy surgery, and so I don't have to hang around Northampton all day. So we shall see what happens then. In the meantime I'm keeping an eye on her and the lump, she seems happy and her weight is stable so far ...
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Best of luck with the operation! Sounds like you're giving her the best possible chance x
 
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