Yeast infection in guinea pigs **Pebbles & Helen advice please*

[Poppy'sMum]

I'm hoping Pebbles or Helen will see this & offer some advice. I have a 3 year old piggy Petal who has a history or UTI's, she has had a bladder flush about a year ago, followed by ultrasound scans & x-rays which showed no bladder stones present. She occasionally passes blood, this appears to be when she passes a pellet & this is confirmed by dipstick tests that show no blood in the urine. She is on 0.1ml Metacam once a day to help bladder inflammation & Cartrophen injections once a month. Generally she eats well & is in very good health. She did pass a rather strange looking string of mucus pellets about 2 months ago but has been passing normal pellets since.

At the vets for her injection last week the vet saw her pass a pellet that had a little blood on it, despite the urine being clear of blood so the vet sent the faecal sample off to an exotic's lab at Chester Zoo for investigation & today I have been told Petal is carrying Saccharomyces yeast which needs to be treated. I am hoping someone knows a bit about this as I now need to get my other 2 tested in case they also carry it. Apparently it is known to be carried by some rabbits but they have not proven it can be carried by piggies so Petal may be a first in this respect. My piggies have never had contact with a rabbit, are kept indoors on fleece washed at 60 degrees & are fed imported hay from the US which is sterile. They are kept in a room that is well ventilated & not too cold or warm, their dry food is kept indoors as well. The vet is at a loss to know where she picked this up from.

Does anyone have any experience of this please & any info regarding the treatment etc? I know I could pm Pebbles & Helen but as this is an unusual case I'm putting it on the board in case it helps anyone else

 

[helen105281]

Thank you. I have heard of yeast infections in guinea pigs and my own pigs have had Candidia issues. I have not come across this specific type of yeast though but I know a lady who may do so will contact her and come back to you if that is ok?

 

[helen105281]

I have just done a quick online search in the meantime and the delightful Wikipedia has advised me that is is sugar fungus. Would you be able to list what diet you feed?

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Hi Helen thanks for your reply

Petal has normal veggies twice a day, including peppers, celery odd bit of cucumber, tomato, raddicchio & occasionally carrot. They all have the same & have Harringtons pellets mixed with Burgess Blackcurrant & Oregano, about a tablespoon each a day. They have a constant supply of Timothy hay

I am wondering if the antibiotics she has been on previously may have caused a yeast overgrowth like it can in humans?

 

[helen105281]

Thank you, do they have any fruit?

 

[helen105281]

I have to finish my lunchbreak now but will try to come back to you this evening after my vet appointment which is at 6.

 

[Poppy'sMum]

That's fine thanks Helen They don't have fruit very often, maybe a slice of apple each once a month but no fruit on a regular basis

 

[Pebble]

Bit confused as to why your vet thinks this is a problem? If it is saccharomyces cerevisiae then it would be normal to expect this. For the most part, his is regarded as non-pathogenic and has been used for centuries in bread, wine and beer making and yes, it ferments sugars.

Has she been on any fibreplex? Fibreplex contains saccharomyces cerevisiae as it is regarded as a beneficial organism to help re-populate the guinea pig gut.
http://www.protexin.com/products/fibreplex-for-rabbits/26

In humans saccharomyces boulardi is often used to help repopulate the gut after Clostriudium difficile infections. I can find one reference in the literature to the isolation of pathogenic (disease-causing) strains of saccharomyces but they have come from immunocompromised humans - these isloates have some additional characteristic such as being able to grow at higher temperatures. However these are rare.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1205906/pdf/ge13641261.pdf

Personally I would want an explanation as to why it is felt necessary to treat for what would normally be regarded as a harmless commensale in the guinea pig gut......it suggests to me they've missed the real problem.

HTH
x

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Bit confused as to why your vet thinks this is a problem? If it is saccharomyces cerevisiae then it would be normal to expect this. For the most part, his is regarded as non-pathogenic and has been used for centuries in bread, wine and beer making and yes, it ferments sugars.

Has she been on any fibreplex? Fibreplex contains saccharomyces cerevisiae as it is regarded as a beneficial organism to help re-populate the guinea pig gut.
http://www.protexin.com/products/fibreplex-for-rabbits/26

In humans saccharomyces boulardi is often used to help repopulate the gut after Clostriudium difficile infections. I can find one reference in the literature to the isolation of pathogenic (disease-causing) strains of saccharomyces but they have come from immunocompromised humans - these isloates have some additional characteristic such as being able to grow at higher temperatures. However these are rare.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1205906/pdf/ge13641261.pdf

Personally I would want an explanation as to why it is felt necessary to treat for what would normally be regarded as a harmless commensale in the guinea pig gut......it suggests to me they've missed the real problem.

HTH
x

Thank you for replying Pebble

I've got to find out which strain it is, apparently there are a lot of them. The one Petal has is only ever found in rabbits, this is the first time it has been found in a guinea pig apparently. I am assuming that there is an overgrowth in Petal's gut & this may be why they feel it needs treating? I have given Fibreplex in the past couple of months as Petal was on antibiotics again so that is useful to know & I will contact the vet to mention this as a possible reason as to it's appearance. Is there anything else I should ask? I am sure teh vet mentioned Nystatin as a treatment? http://www.guinealynx.info/antifungal_agents.html

 

[Pebble]

Sounds like saccharomyces guttulata. Again this is a normal commensale (harmless bug) of rabbits and has also been found in guinea pigs.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00393526

I have found one reference to it being harmful but this is a paper dated 1950 so is suspect.
http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19512201967.html;jsessionid=1C7FE0421E914415058F5A2C5FF1E3BE
I suspect the rabbits concerned were actually carrying another disease such as coccidia that was unknown about/undiagnosed at the time when diagnostic methods were very primitive......upon further googling, my suspicions appear to be confirmed by the following excerpt from the current Merck veterinary manual..."It is important to distinguish coccidian oocysts from the [*]nonpathogenic yeast Saccharomycopsis guttulatus[/*] that can also be found in large number"..

So, speaking as a microbiologist, there is absolutely no scientific basis for this organism to be identified as a cause of any disease in Petal - it is considered harmless. To treat Petal with oral antifungals ON THIS DIAGNOSIS from "ONE POO WITH A BIT OF BLOOD THAT COULD HAVE COME FROM A TEAR IN THE RECTUM OR THE SKIN" would be SPECULATIVE. My own vet will only prescribe oral antifungals as a last resort after a definitive isolation/culture/diagnosis......as these drugs can do more harm to piggies in terms of liver toxicity/damage than good. Believe me i spent hundreds of pounds on cultures because my pigs were exhibiting what many laypeople interpret as "possible fungal issues" - every test, even the PM;s, came back negative and additionally there was no PM histology evidence in any tissues to suggest their bodies were mounting a response to fungi....it was more likely a virus given the types of cells infiltrating the lungs etc.

So let's look more constructively at trying to identify the real problem:
Although Petal has a history of Urinary issues, it would appear that her current problem is blood-associated poos from the GI tract.

Given all the above, the first thing to rule out is whether Petal has either a coccidia or another infection of the GI tract. Such infections can easily be contracted from either grazing on grass outside...or from pre-packed veggies from the supermarket. It's not common...but it does happen as we had a recent case on here... and always needs to be considered factor when diagnosing a GI issue.

I would request another, more thorough, faecal exam is done ....including faecal float and isolation/culture..... with a view to looking positively for pathogens...not necessarily just the coccidiosis caught by rabbits as guinea pigs have their own similar organism called Eimeria caviae. Other protozoa to look for include Giardia - quite a likely possibility - Cryptosporidium and Trichomonas. Bacteria to look for include Salmonella spp, Yersinia pseudotuberculosis, Listeria, E.coli and ....(given the past antibiotic administration) low-level Clostridium infection. Worms are extremely unlikely - the main one being the eggs of Paraspiodera uncinata. The only fungi I can think of looking for in this situation with the associated blood is Histoplasmosis and Cryptococcus but that would indeed be a rare thing.

You will need two plastic tubes from your vet - preferably sterile. You need to put the piggie into a cleaned/disinfected carrier and gain a sample of about 8- 10 poos. Transfer the poos from the carrier to the tube with sterile tweezers - vet may have sterile plastic forceps you could use. If you have other piggies you need to provide a similar sample from one of them who is not living with your piggie as a control.

If your vet chooses to go with the saccharomyces diagnosis and wishes to treat...nystatin may be the more appropriate option, as the more commonly used itrafungol tends to be more effective against external fungal issues rather than yeasts.

If your vet insists, go with the nystatin but I personally would also insist on poo samples prior to administration. The if there is no progress after the drug is given, another round of poo samples ta least one week after the last dose.
It's expensive i know...but the good news is that at least more vets are willing to do these diagnostics properly on guinea pigs that they would do as a matter of course on dogs and cats...provided the slaves are prepared to pay. At least guinea pigs are no longer regarded as "disposable". I think it's great that your vet has referred to Chester zoo - however not all zoos know about guinea pigs. If he wants to discuss with another vet - my vet is Rob Reynolds at Seers Croft in Horsham - he is registered as a zoological and exotics expert...and also has a lot of experience with piggies.

Hugs to you - if you think it may help to print out my posts and take them to your vets to aid the discussion then please do so.

x

 

[helen105281]

I have spoken to my contact who has confirmed like Pebble that it is non-pathogenic. This means that it will not cause an onward systemic disease such as Candidiasis, however, if conditions are correct over population can occur, particularly if the animal is in a weakened state. Saccharomyces is susceptible to to most anti-fungal medications such as Daktarin (Miconazole), ItraFungol (Itraconazole) and Amphotericin B but the latter should be used with extreme caution as it can cause renal toxicity. She has recommended a 3 week course of anti-fungal medication and at the end of the course a once a week treatment of Panacur 10% for 4 weeks.

Pebble, I have to disagree on your comment about Itrafungol, I have had great results using this to treat my own pigs with Candidiasis, and they are now in remission.

 

[Mother Hubbard]

You guys blow my mind with your knowledge. I bow down to your incredible knowledge 8

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Oh wow Pebble thank you so much x>> I will print this off if that's ok with you? My vet is excellent, she is an exotics specialist that is friends with Molly Varga & she is very thorough in her investigations & research. She suggested to test a sample first before we go down the route of another GA & ultrasound, more x-rays etc. I will give her the name of your vet & I am sure she will be happy to contact him for discussion. I will find out a bit more as to what else was tested & let you know what my vet's response is. Thank you so much Pebble xx

 

[Poppy'sMum]

I have spoken to my contact who has confirmed like Pebble that it is non-pathogenic. This means that it will not cause an onward systemic disease such as Candidiasis, however, if conditions are correct over population can occur, particularly if the animal is in a weakened state. Saccharomyces is susceptible to to most anti-fungal medications such as Daktarin (Miconazole), ItraFungol (Itraconazole) and Amphotericin B but the latter should be used with extreme caution as it can cause renal toxicity. She has recommended a 3 week course of anti-fungal medication and at the end of the course a once a week treatment of Panacur 10% for 4 weeks.

Pebble, I have to disagree on your comment about Itrafungol, I have had great results using this to treat my own pigs with Candidiasis, and they are now in remission.

Thank you too Helen, you have both given me a lot of information I can now take to my vet for further discussion I will let you know what she says

 

[helen105281]

You're welcome, I learnt something too today.

 

[Pebble]

I have spoken to my contact who has confirmed like Pebble that it is non-pathogenic. This means that it will not cause an onward systemic disease such as Candidiasis, however, if conditions are correct over population can occur, particularly if the animal is in a weakened state. Saccharomyces is susceptible to to most anti-fungal medications such as Daktarin (Miconazole), ItraFungol (Itraconazole) and Amphotericin B but the latter should be used with extreme caution as it can cause renal toxicity. She has recommended a 3 week course of anti-fungal medication and at the end of the course a once a week treatment of Panacur 10% for 4 weeks.

Pebble, I have to disagree on your comment about Itrafungol, I have had great results using this to treat my own pigs with Candidiasis, and they are now in remission.

I don;t doubt that you have had excellent results with itrafungol Helen and I did not say itrafungol was not a good med to use for Candida. However Petal does NOT have Candida....she has been diagnosed with Saccharomyces for which they intend to give nystatin. THAT is what we are commenting on...not some "generic guinea pig fungal problem". FYI I did check the selectivity and spectrum of both drugs before posting my observation.....

I can understand why you felt the need to challenge me , but here is some additional information to help explain my post.
Although Candida is classified as a yeast, the pathogenic form that causes overgrowth or disease in mammals has morphed from a budding yeast into a classic fungal structure involving hyphae or pseudohypahe, the "white mat" often seen on mucosa......hence why itrafungol is effective against Candidia in those circumstances.
Saccharomyces however does not form hyphae ro similar structures...it;s one of the reasons why it is considered non-pathogenic. It remains a budding yeast cell form in which case nystatin would probably be a more appropriate drug.

If your "contact" wishes to discuss with me why she thinks my posts such as the above ones are inappropriate - perhaps she would have the courtesy to PM me rather than use you as a public third party messenger.

x

 

[helen105281]

The reason I mentioned it was because you said it was not effective on treating yeasts so I was just stating that it had in face been effective in treating that particular yeast. The only reason I mentioned my contact was because I did not know the answer myself in this case but knew she would be able to assist and I would learn something in the process. I have not mentioned her name out of courtesy.