Zee and Leo's introduction story.

[Lone-Star 57]

Hi thought I'd make a post of each meeting that Zee and Leo have with some pictures too.
So I am introducing them to each other two times a day once in the morning and then again at 6ish at night when I would usually get them out before introducing them was on my mind. I have them out for 10-15 minutes at a time.

So far it's going great the first introduction was yesterday and there was a lot of mounting by Leo on Zee's face which she hated. As expected there was a lot of teeth chattering (Which made me so nervous) then it would calm down and Leo began rummble strutting then grooming Zee's ears, eyes and feet. But then she would chatter her teeth at him so he would mount her and she'd squeak. Then that was it they lost interest and Leo ran around popcorning. Zee just sat there stunned.

The second meeting was pretty much the same except Zee began to hiss at Leo and they would have a sort of staring match(I began to panic) But Leo would just mount her then again the quiet happened and Leo would just wonder off and do his own thing.

The third meeting was today this morning and the teeth chattering was less but still there Leo did the mounting but really just wanted to groom Zee and she'd allow it up until he would approach her face or feet then she would bare her teeth at him, with a few hisses and then he'd leave her be. Run around doing his own thing (which is eating the carpet) so I'd poke him to stop him. Then he'd run of popcorning like it was his game. (Little )
But it's because of all of his popcorning I think he is very young on his Adoption papers it said approx 1 year. So there is a quite an age gap with Zee being 5 years old.
So at the moment Leo is so kind and Zee is being a grump. Also Zee urinates a lot while the introductions are going on, is that normal?
I am hoping that maybe Valentines day coming up will sprinkle some lovey-dovey energy upon my little piggies.
So some pictures.
Leo looking proud with his drool beard.

Zee.

"Is someone bringing the food!"

"I'm just going to wash your face here...and here"

 

[piggyfan]

What little cuties!

 

[sport_billy]

They are both beautiful x) Hopefully someone will be able to offer some bonding advice. Hope it continues to go well

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Thank you piggyfan and sport billy.

Zee and Leo both had another shorter meeting about 10 minutes ago and it went alot better still teeth chattering from Zee and a couple of hisses but much better I think perhaps Zee is becoming a little dominate over Mr Leo as when she does this he backs off. Then looks a little lost. They seperated and went to their own exploration of the living room, Leo checking out my families feet Zee remaining glued to me as normal.
If I move away just breifly or have to chase Leo because he's being naughty she'll follow me. I am a little worried she is to 'Humanized' and won't become a guinea pig.
But because she will groom me and follow me the idea popped into my head that what if I show affection to Leo, would she show more interest?
So I petted Leo's face and ears Zee was still pasted to me and then she crept closer to him and I held my breath for a moment. Then she did it she began tp groom his eyes, then his ears. I was a very proud piggie mum.
But the moment was short lived as when Leo tried to return the affection Zee hissed at him. But there was no mounting this evening.

Please feel free to give me any advise.

 

[Guinea pig slave]

Only advice I can offer is to let them stay together under your supervision. Every time you separate them, it undoes things.
Do you have them next to each other but a divided pen ? Again, this is a great way of your piggies smelling, seeing and getting used to having each other close by but introductions when the time comes is all about allowing them to meet and see it through. As long as there is no fighting, they will sort out their issues if any fairly quickly. Not the easiest thing to do bonding, I know - have had a few heart stopping times with my lot. Plonk loads of hay in if they start bickering, distract them etc. They really do forget everything whilst there's food etc. around.
Piggies will usually let you know after around 15 - 30 minutes that they may like each other.
The trick is to stop separating unless they fight, easy to say I know but it does sound as though you have got past the worst and they will become friends.
This may help:-

http://www.cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm


Keep us posted and happy bonding vibes sent x>>

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Only advice I can offer is to let them stay together under your supervision. Every time you separate them, it undoes things.
Do you have them next to each other but a divided pen ? Again, this is a great way of your piggies smelling, seeing and getting used to having each other close by but introductions when the time comes is all about allowing them to meet and see it through. As long as there is no fighting, they will sort out their issues if any fairly quickly. Not the easiest thing to do bonding, I know - have had a few heart stopping times with my lot. Plonk loads of hay in if they start bickering, distract them etc. They really do forget everything whilst there's food etc. around.
Piggies will usually let you know after around 15 - 30 minutes that they may like each other.
The trick is to stop separating unless they fight, easy to say I know but it does sound as though you have got past the worst and they will become friends.
This may help:-

http://www.cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm


Keep us posted and happy bonding vibes sent x>>

Thanks for the advise.
How would I go about the divide. As I only have a 100 and a 120 cage, I do have a roll of mesh lying around that I could maybe cable tie in the middle of the 120 cage until they are friends or not friends.

I am still very lost with all of this process as I have never done an introduction before. Well I lie because I introduced Zee to Kimmi but Zee was a baby so I think Kimmi accepted her as her baby.

I didn't realise that introducing them to each other on the floor and then putting them back in their own cages would cause them to have to reesablish their dominance. So thank you.

 

[Lilly]

They are so gorgeous! Love the 3 photos of them together. I would try as Guinea pig slave suggested. It is what I did with my 2 boys. When they met on neutral ground and didn't fight in they went together into the same cage with a 24 hour watch between 3 family members.

 

[wind1]

Zee reminds me of my new little boy Sylvester. I am bonding him with Chester at the moment. I have had them in a hutch with a wire divider since Saturday, then yesterday I put them into a run together for about 40 mins. It all went well with only a little rumbling from them both and Chester head-butted Sylvester a couple of times. I will put them back in the run together again today.

Here's Sylvester, he's 15 weeks old

Here's Chester, he's 7 months old

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Wow Sylvester and Zee do look very similar.
And Chester is a beautiful boy drool

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Okay so #1 meeting today was almost no teeth chattering and Zee is getting better at returning the grooming back to Leo now, but bites his ears
Then it causes a little stand off.

#2 Was great Leo romanced Zee and then it went quite and they just sat beside each other until Leo plonked himself down beside Zee lying with is little chookin legs poking out. Zee then turned to him and began grooming him for ages without nipping his ears or anywhere.
But then Zee wondered off and peed, once Leo smelt it he began mounting her again so the teeth chattering commenced.

But tomorrow I am going to dig that mess out of the shed and put a divider through the cage so they can spend the night that way.
Thanks for staying interested guys.

 

[Guinea pig slave]

Glad things are going ok - I've always planned intro's when I have time off form work so can be there to watch them closely.
Just out of interest, what is the plan for the cages if they bond ? Are you going to join them to make one large cage ? Are they next to each other currently ? Sorry for all the questions rolleyes
Maybe try that then add the divider so they are in closer proximity - at least if they finally don't bond, they can still see each other ?/
I have a neutered boy reserved and am dreading trying to bond him with the three wifepigs waiting for their 'Prince' so am likely going to ask the rescue to assist as they bonded my girls so understand totally what you are going through p

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Glad things are going ok - I've always planned intro's when I have time off form work so can be there to watch them closely.
Just out of interest, what is the plan for the cages if they bond ? Are you going to join them to make one large cage ? Are they next to each other currently ? Sorry for all the questions rolleyes
Maybe try that then add the divider so they are in closer proximity - at least if they finally don't bond, they can still see each other ?/
I have a neutered boy reserved and am dreading trying to bond him with the three wifepigs waiting for their 'Prince' so am likely going to ask the rescue to assist as they bonded my girls so understand totally what you are going through p

Yeah I am glad that it seems to be going so well Zee deserves to have a new pig friend I felt awful after leaving her so long without a friend but I could never find one the right age in a rescue (Because I didn't want a baby) Or they had groups of 3 sows and I didnt have the space to have 4 piggies, even though I'd love too.

No, no don't worry about the questions. Well currently I do not have a job so I am home most of the time but I have specific times were I get the piggles out which is 12 in the evening and 6pm to have floor time together. If they bonded I was planning to place them into Leo's current 120 cage so basically just remove the divider one day when I feel it is all good and safe. At the moment and since I got Leo they are living above each other Zee's cage sitting on top of Leo's. Then I have a shell of a cupboard about 5 foot long to build them a hutch for the summer. But otherwise I really wasn't sure what I'd do if they didn't bond and it becomes horrific. I don't mind it going back to them living seperate and doing seperate floor times like when he was just neutered.

I think though maybe with three ladies he won't have one target at least.
But seriously I wish you the best of luck when you finally bring your wonderful Prince home to see his boootiful wifepigs. But I think that is a great idea to ask them for some advise for bonding him.
Maybe I should have thought of that and asked the RSPCA for some help with Leo. (Duuuh I am stupid sometimes.)

 

[Guinea pig slave]

I would seriously consider putting them side by side so they can get to know each other better - may help with the intro's
They will know each others smell etc. so may not rumble/mount as much as they are quite 'familiar'.
Keep us posted and thanks for the updates p

 

[Lone-Star 57]

I would seriously consider putting them side by side so they can get to know each other better - may help with the intro's
They will know each others smell etc. so may not rumble/mount as much as they are quite 'familiar'.
Keep us posted and thanks for the updates p

That was what I wanted to do, but I don't have the room to put their cages side by side sadly.
And thank you for the interest in them.

 

[wind1]

How are these two getting on now?

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Sorry I didn't post yesterday I got held up in the housework. But everything was well a good yesterday but I still haven't managed to get that mesh yet. And after today I am just not sure it's going to work out but see I am not sure whether they were grumpy because I got them out at the wrong time as I overslept. But Leo was just so whiny like the normal stuff happened first sniffing, strutting and then every time Zee would approach Leo he would back off and warble sadly. I also don't know if Zee was intimidating him at all and I didn't see it, I believe she is becoming the dominant one but Leo isn't happy with it and try's to claim it back but Zee always seems to be the winner, there is no biting just a lot of the head lifting thing and literally no chattering from either of them today.

I also had an idea (And it is just an idea) but if I was to get another female of about a year or so old would that give Leo a better companion and perhaps Zee would prefer a female friend to a male friend. At the moment she doesn't seem to fussed of his presence but hates when he mounts her or touches her feet.
This probably the completely wrong thing to think of but it was just a thought.

Thank's a lot. For being interested.
Jodie.
Zee and Leo.

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Some pictures from this morning. So far it's going very well, allthough sometimes they both just ignore each other Zee was showing alot more interest today aswell which I was pleased about. But I am so confused it seems when Leo pays attention to Zee she ignores him or doesn't want him near her and then it goes vise versa. Piggie are so confusing....
They were kissing each other to but I could never capture a picture of it.

 

[Lone-Star 57]

 

[Guinea pig slave]

They seem to like each other and would persevere - they would be better though side by side 24/7. Is there no way you can do this rather than above each other as you are just allowing them to meet then undoing it all so every session is starting from scratch again.
Adding a female I think will only have the same issues - you need to quarantine a new piggy and then do introductions, what happens if that fails ? Have you space for three separate piggies who really need to have piggy company ?
I'm not being negative or critical at all but can see a potential friendship here with Zee and Leo and would find a way of putting the cages next to each other temporarily so they see each other all of the time...intro may be more straight forward then

 

[Lone-Star 57]

They seem to like each other and would persevere - they would be better though side by side 24/7. Is there no way you can do this rather than above each other as you are just allowing them to meet then undoing it all so every session is starting from scratch again.
Adding a female I think will only have the same issues - you need to quarantine a new piggy and then do introductions, what happens if that fails ? Have you space for three separate piggies who really need to have piggy company ?
I'm not being negative or critical at all but can see a potential friendship here with Zee and Leo and would find a way of putting the cages next to each other temporarily so they see each other all of the time...intro may be more straight forward then

No I completely understand where you are coming from that's why I asked about it. Because I knew that it could just end up with having three unbonded piggies. But I just thought to ask anyway as you guys will care about their welfare. (And I was unsure) I think my sister may want a piggie so that's why I asked about it. As I still live with my parents she wanted to put them in with my guys
So thank you.

I am going to dig in the mess of a shed right now for it. Because I do want them to have company, I feel cruel if I don't. I thought that I was doing that everytime I got them out and put them back. Arghh! I am such an idiot.

 

[Lilly]

Well, Zee seems to be giving Leo an adoring look here! I'm loving Leo's lion mane. It certainly looks like there's hope in bonding these two. Maybe Cupid's arrow this month will help!

 

[Lone-Star 57]

So another update. I cut the mesh last night and everythings ready I just need to collect my newspapers so I can clean out the cages to make it all a neutral scent.

So today we started the greeting with a little dinner date, the grass was just scrumtious!

Except Leo tried to climb into my cosy while I stepped out of it, so I gave him a quick nip. That showed him!

Then mummy wanted to do a photoshoot but me and Leo had other idea's *blush*

Leo even washed his face before we cuddled up together

At the end mummy wanted to cuddle us both since we were both getting along so well she tried us together...we both had a wonderful conversation.

Then I got frightened by the dog barking at the front door so Leo was a great hiding place.

So this morning went amazing I am so proud of Zee and Leo I can't wait to plop them in the same cage with the divide. Excuse my dressing gown they love it so much I wear it when I hold them, so they can be snug as a bug when I hold them.
Thank's for your support guys.

 

[sport_billy]

Thanks for your updates, so glad it's going well. They are both soooooo cute x) x) Love that last photo of Zee using Leo as a hat

 

[Lilly]

Oh that looks like it's going well!

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Thanks for your updates, so glad it's going well. They are both soooooo cute x) x) Love that last photo of Zee using Leo as a hat

Thank yoouu! She used to do this to her previous pigfriend Kimmi.

Oh that looks like it's going well!

I feel safe enough to put them in the same cage but it still makes me nervous...so the divide it'll be.
I wish I could clean them out right now and put them together with the divide I just don't want to go to shop and buy 6 newspapers.
Does anyone know what else I could do. LOL.

Here's some more pics. The only issue I am having at the moment is that Zee bites or strikes(I am not sure tooth contact is being made) Leo when ever they are eating together and he gets to close or she'll nip him if he uses any kind of tunel/tube or hidy. Will that stop?
Leo doesn't react in a bad way he moves away and sounds upset.

Leo pancaked on my lap leaving no room for Zee....

So she did try very hard to squish on. She really started to cuddle up to Leo as well. I think she thinks he's a cushion and not a Guinea pig. lol.

There was actually a piggie outline left in Leo's fur after I put Zee down to put them back. Hee hee.

 

[wind1]

Looks like it's all going well. Do you have more than one food bowl, pile of grass etc so that they both can eat without feeling threatened by the other? Also when I was bonding my two I didn't put any tunnels, hideys in as I find this does cause arguments. It sounds a bit mean because they do like to hide but I have always found this a problem in the past, one of them will want to claim any hidey as their own and if the other one goes in it causes a problem. My two Chester and Sylvester have 2 hideys in their cage now but Chester still gets a bit narked when Sylvester runs into his. Keep going with the intros, you do have to be brave sometimes and not intervene too quickly. I don't enjoy the bonding process at all but it is so worth it in the end when you see them happy together

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Looks like it's all going well. Do you have more than one food bowl, pile of grass etc so that they both can eat without feeling threatened by the other? Also when I was bonding my two I didn't put any tunnels, hideys in as I find this does cause arguments. It sounds a bit mean because they do like to hide but I have always found this a problem in the past, one of them will want to claim any hidey as their own and if the other one goes in it causes a problem. My two Chester and Sylvester have 2 hideys in their cage now but Chester still gets a bit narked when Sylvester runs into his. Keep going with the intros, you do have to be brave sometimes and not intervene too quickly. I don't enjoy the bonding process at all but it is so worth it in the end when you see them happy together

Well I actually did begin introducing them without any food and tunnels but I thought that they were probably getting bored of the same old boring towel. They do have two food bowls but when I have them out I just give them a pile of food each and do put quite a space between them, just sometime they go for the same pile so I leave them to it or part the piles. But Zee sit's on top of it sometimes. *Face palms*

How are your boys doing? I love them both, especially Zee's lookalike
Hope you're all well.

 

[wind1]

Chester and Sylvester are getting along really well. I have just put a big pile of hay in, Sylvester gets so excited as soon as he hears the bag, he was popcorning all over the place, then Chester joined in. I'm hoping they will continue to be ok together as Sylvester matures, Chester is very laid back so I think it should work out ok. I put this picture of them on another thread but incase you missed it here they are together

 

[Lone-Star 57]

Chester and Sylvester are getting along really well. I have just put a big pile of hay in, Sylvester gets so excited as soon as he hears the bag, he was popcorning all over the place, then Chester joined in. I'm hoping they will continue to be ok together as Sylvester matures, Chester is very laid back so I think it should work out ok. I put this picture of them on another thread but incase you missed it here they are together

Oooh Gosh so cute! I hope that Sylvester loves his cotten wool friend to as they mature. x Bless them popcorning over something so simple as hay. What is your set up like is everything in two and do you have them on seperate ends of the cages? Like food bowl one end and a food bowl on the other end or just two bowls next to each other? Sorry for the silly question I have never had to do an introduction before, dispite Leo being my 6th piggie. The piggies I have owned before were housed together and then the other two were sisters.
I wish you very much luck with your two lovely boys!

Zee is starting to follow Leo now when he wanders around.

 

[wind1]

They are in a 120 cage and I have put a plastic step each end as a hidey. They have 2 bowls one each in front of a hidey. They seem to swap hideys, each time I look at them they are at a different end of the cage but they never seem to both be under the same one. I think what happens is Sylvester goes to join Chester under his but Chester doesn't want him in there with him so moves to the other one. They will eat out of the same food bowl without problems though and I have even seen them share a piece of cucumber pulling it out of each others mouths. Your two may eventually share a bed or hidey and probably be ok with food as they are girl//boy pair.