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Advice on UTI

Gadzy

Gadzy

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Hello,

I took my Guniea pig to the vets as an emergency on Sunday afternoon, she had lost a huge amount of weight and was groaning when weeing. I got a pee sample and took it with me to them.

She found blood in her wee and believed she saw some bacteria as well, but because it was a free catch we weren’t sure. She took two xrays as well and there were no stones present. I am currently on day 4 of co trixamole? Sorry can’t remember how to spell it. It’s banana flavoured. The vets ringing me back on Friday to see how she is. She is still groaning when weeing, but she is eating better and putting weight on. She is also on 0.3 twice daily of dog metacam. I think the next call might be to try get a pee sample and they can test it to see what bacteria. The antibiotics are for 7 days. I have read that it could be needed longer. Do you think I should ask the vets if we can do another week and see how it is? It’s hard to know what to suggest or know what to do. She was happy with the X-ray though which was positive

Thanks all
 
I’m sorry your piggy is poorly.

I’m so glad there are no stones.

After 4 days of antibiotics and they are just getting up to full strength so it’s good you’ve seen an improvement. Hopefully over the next few days she will start to feel much better.

See how she is on Friday. Yes sometimes these things need a longer course of antibiotics.
 
I’m sorry to hear this.

She is only just at the point where the antibiotics have really kicked in so you should start to see improvement from now onwards.
It can take longer than 7 days to cure a UTI but as the vet is calling you then you can see how she is then and they could prescribe more at that point.

I hope she is ok
 
Thank you all, guess I will just have to wait and see how it all goes and go from there. It’s almost when she poos and wees at the same time the issue comes, but as I said some grumbling when weeing still… does this mean the antibiotic isn’t working or could just take some time? I’m trying to gauge it all for when the vet rings. Could the antibiotic be killing bacteria, but still be in pain if that makes sense?
 
Yes the antibiotic is working but yes she can still be in pain:

Antibiotics build up slowly in the body and take around 4 days to hit full bacteria killing efficacy. During that time you are definitely still going to see symptoms. They are working but they do not provide immediate impact like pain meds do.

Once they hit full efficacy you will start to see improvements in the symptoms but it can still take the whole course before symptoms stop. A second course can still be needed if bacteria/symptoms remain. UTIs generally take a course of between 7 and 14 days.

Once you stop giving the antibiotics, they will slowly decrease in her system over a further 3-4 days - so basically they take the same amount of time to wind down as they took to wind up in the body
 
Hello,

So antibiotics been done for 8 days now. I feel she’s improved and not lost any weight, but still a bit quiet and what I’d say under it a tad. I wonder if the antibiotic has helped it a bit but needs a different. It’s not a yelp when she wees, it’s like a groan. We have had X-rays and showed nothing. Vets mentioned getting another wee sample to test for next week. Preferably tomorrow. Do you think I could mention an ultra sound or anything? It could be the sterile cystitis? I guess until we get another wee sample and she has another look we can’t progress. It’s when she wees and poos at the same time, does it expand the bladder more when she does both, increasing more pain?
 
Yes - At this point you would want to follow the vets advice and get a urine sample (although as she has been on antibiotics for 8 days already, you would assume any bacteria that was present would be depleted and probably harder to find).
It may be a different course of antibiotics is needed.

As long as the x ray showed no stones, then I'm not sure an ultrasound would add anything further.
 
Yeah, I think that’s what’s next. What’s in the back or my mind is the start of an ovarian cyst? I almost feel like an ultrasound to just rule this out. I’m going to mention it to the vet tomorrow. Her weights stabilised, but it’s not where it was. I think I will try get a pee sample tomorrow morning and drop it at the vets and just go from there. I mean can co trimoxazole cause some appetite issues?
 
My boy had been on Co Trim for two lots of 10 days (approx) and his appetite has been normal.

But medication can affect them all differently.

I hope your piggy is soon feeling better.
 
Blood in the urine wouldn’t be a typical sign of ovarian cysts. Bloody urine of course points to infection, stones, cystitis.

The typical symptoms of ovarian cysts are overly hormonal behaviour, balding on the flanks, crusty nipples etc.
Sheer bleeding from the reproductive tract is a different and urgent situation. (This doesn’t seem to be what you are reporting though).

Co-trim tends to be one which is less likely to upset the appetite but of course it can affect individuals differently
 
I think instead of stabbing in the dark, it’s to get the wee tested for a specific bacteria if it’s there. There was some blood in wee and saw some bacteria, so I think we’re onto something. It just needs a bit more fine tuning? What I don’t understand is it’s more intermittent. Not every wee. Maybe it’s more diluted with water etc than other times?
 
Yes absolutely.
If there was bacteria present in the urine then you are dealing with a bacterial urine infection.
It is therefore less likely to be sterile cystitis or any ovarian problem.
 
The blood isn’t noticeable to eye and when on white paper etc, but she still saw blood. We weren’t sure with the bacteria because it was fee catch and she had pooed as well, so will get another tomorrow and get it tested
 
I agree with @Piggies&buns .

Most piggies have some faecal bacteria in their urinary tract; no bacteria at all is extremely rare. In a sterile cystitis the bacterial count is just too low to cure with an antibiotic; whatever the bacteria. All it can do at the best is suppress the symptoms temporarily.

Intermittent red pees are characteristic for the onset of a sterile cystitis flare; the red is actually not blood but a natural dye, porphyrin; it can contain traces of blood but not necessarily. I have played that game with my own piggies, so I have the personal experience from those days when a sterile interstitial cystitis was not yet known.
Believe me, it would take a real lot of blood (like from an open bleeding wound) to make the urine look red from blood.

Please brace for the fact that it takes about 5 days on average of intermittent red coloured pees and increased occasional squeaking for symptoms of a sterile cystitis flare to firm up.

Step up your glucosamine and your metacam dose now if you are already treating for sterile cystitis.
 
The wee isn’t red on blanket, it looks normal. It was only when the vet looked at her wee properly she saw blood in there (whatever they must do)

I’ve just caught her groaning when peeing again, it’s strange it’s not a standard short yelp it’s like a groaning until she’s finished. I could tell it was a wee because the poo was wet where she was weeing at the same time. I can’t see where to go forwards from here really. She is on 0.3 dog metacam twice a day and i have just finished the co trixamole. None left. I will get a pee sample tomorrow morning and ring the vets again. Ill
Double check the vet who’s been seeing her is in first! I think she did mention glucosamine, but wanted to see how she went first. I mean how do I know if this is the right antibiotic and just needs longer? I think we just get the pee tested properly and go from there. I’m guessing it will be a steep charge to get it sent away for testing or do the vets do that.
 
Gadzy said:
The wee isn’t red on blanket, it looks normal. It was only when the vet looked at her wee properly she saw blood in there (whatever they must do)

I’ve just caught her groaning when peeing again, it’s strange it’s not a standard short yelp it’s like a groaning until she’s finished. I could tell it was a wee because the poo was wet where she was weeing at the same time. I can’t see where to go forwards from here really. She is on 0.3 dog metacam twice a day and i have just finished the co trixamole. None left. I will get a pee sample tomorrow morning and ring the vets again. Ill
Double check the vet who’s been seeing her is in first! I think she did mention glucosamine, but wanted to see how she went first. I mean how do I know if this is the right antibiotic and just needs longer? I think we just get the pee tested properly and go from there. I’m guessing it will be a steep charge to get it sent away for testing or do the vets do that.
Click to expand...

That's more of a pain when pressing out something rather that the burning, sharp pain from corrosive urine hitting a spot where the insulating glucosamine layer is no longer there (bacterial or sterile cystitis or bladder stone scratch).
 
So you think the groaning is not from a uti?

Also, when I get the pee sample after giving her some water from a syringe will this dilute the pee too much to test if that makes sense
 
Gadzy said:
So you think the groaning is not from a uti?

Also, when I get the pee sample after giving her some water from a syringe will this dilute the pee too much to test if that makes sense
Click to expand...

Please accept that we do not have any access to your piggy and that we cannot replace a thorough vet examination. We can only comment via the filter of your own observations and try to answer those but we cannot replace a hands-on examination by a trained professional.

Grunting when peeing or pooing can be caused by any sort of pain in the lower body by a really wide range of causes. It is too general a sort of pain to pin down sight unseen.
What it is not, is the specific sort of squeak, associated specifically with the stinging pain of a classic urinary infection of some sort. We can make that distinction but we cannot say any more.

I am very sorry that it goes way beyond our very definite limits of providing remote support to give you the answers you urgently crave as your anxiety is casting around widely for anything to latch onto.

PS: Please also be aware that expressing the bladder on the examination table does not rarely cause some very mild bleeding. If you can, please try to take a urine sample at home.
How To Collect A Urine Sample

I wish I could help you better but I do not want to give you misleading advice and make things worse rather than better for your little girl. At this stage, there are very unfortunately just no clear, unmistakeable symptoms that are pointing into one direction only.

HUGS
 
Ok, so I have noticed quite a lot of thick calcium deposits that feel rather chalky and gritty when I pinched it and rubbed my fingers together. I will mention that to the vets tomorrow. I dropped a pee sample off which the nurses tested and have apparently put it on the notes for the vet when she’s next on tomorrow. I may mention about an ultrasound for peace of mind, but will see what she thinks. If they can mildly sedate her and do one that would be good but will see. Her pee is so so cloudy and the vet did say last time there was a lot of sediment in there. I’m gonna go to filtered water and maybe try different nuggets? Currently using science selective, which I believe are alfalfa-based based. Sorry, can’t think how to spell it!
 
Hi Betsy,

I actually have some of these at home, not given them a proper go. They were just looking for their usual ones, but maybe if I kept trying they may get on them?
 
So it sounds like she actually has bladder sludge. That would explain her groaning.

If youre in a hard water area and she has had alfalfa based pellets then it sounds like her calcium balance is off.
Changing those things is important for going forward and preventing further issues, but it won’t change the sludge which is already in here.
That needs to come out. You will need increase her hydration, give extra cucumber, you can try carefully offering filtered water from a syringe. Offer bowls and bottles as well.
If the sludge is loose, then it may be able to come out through the extra hydration. Tightly packed sludge can require surgical intervention as it is unlikely to come out through hydration.

I hope she is ok

Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones
 
One quick other thing she keeps grooming down there by her nipples and that sort of area, like biting it. Another thing I need to mention, could that be the discomfort of her bladder or signs of cysts? I think I gotta just get ultrasound? Will mention this all to vets
 
She is probably uncomfortable if she is passing sludge and if there is a lot in there.

This doesn’t sound anything to do with ovarian cysts to me (all of the symptoms you are reporting point to bladder problems but none of cysts). Bladder sludge will show up on an ultrasound though.

Start getting her hydrated to help pass the sludge, and change her diet - those changes can be done immediately (changes to the diet take several weeks to have an effect on the calcium levels in the body and while changes won’t have any effect on the current sludge which is already there, you don’t want to introduce more).

Fresh dandelion, if you find any, is a mild diuretic. As long as you feed it with cucumber or lettuce then it can help encourage bigger pees to help flush sludge out
 
Ok, so the vets said there was no blood in the wee which there was last time and the wee had good levels of other stuff, I got both samples the exact same way. She’s adamant there are no stones from the X-ray and she got two or three good angles. She did have a UTI because she was yelping and the wee smelt of fish before so that’s one thing out the way. Her weight is stable and not loosing anymore. Although she was a tad more before, but main thing it’s stabilised at a new lower weight. She said to continue on the metacam for the time being

I did suggest an ultrasound for piece of mind, which she is happy to do, she said she will try it normally, but may need a tiny bit of something just to relax her. If nothing comes back or is seen then we can see from there. I will clean up her diet because she does seem more active the last day or so and she’s only just finished the antibiotic really. Do you think I should scrap the ultrasound if it’s just for my piece of mind? I see it as a general check for her overall health. I don’t want sedation to affect her in anyway? The vet said it’s not an anaesthetic etc so she will be fine, but she will try normally anyway. What’s your thoughts? I will keep a close eye on her pees as well. Some might be more excess calcium coming out. Few things I need to monitor.
 
If she has crystals in her urine then that can cause abrasions in the bladder and cause an infection. Glucosamine can still be recommended to help protect the bladder.
So hopefully any infection has now been dealt with but you do need to monitor her urine and see whether it is still coming out gritty.
If it is and continues to do so then you may want to do the ultrasound at that point but if you increase her hydration and it all comes out (ie it isn’t tightly packed), then that is obviously the best thing
 
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