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Arthritic senior pig - alfalfa & baths?

Qualcast&Flymo

Qualcast&Flymo

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I took both Squeaks and Winifred to my vet yesterday as they had both lost weight when measured last weekend. Squeaks was down nearly 100g - I thought it might be something to do with his teeth, as they looked uneven as far as he would let me see, and I could sometimes see him having difficulty eating leaves. Winifred I couldn't see anything wrong, but she has been a bit fussy with veggies recently.

I saw a newish vet I hadn't seen before, I'm told she has more experience with exotics/small furries.

The vet weighed and checked them both over. She didn't find anything wrong with Squeaks, but could see that his teeth were indeed uneven and that one was hurting the gum, so that would account for the weightloss if he didn't want to eat so much. She was going to burr them, but couldn't as the dental surgery was in use for a doggy emergency, so we've just been back to have them done. Hopefully he will start eating properly and regain some of the lost weight. With Winifred, the vet thought her gait looked a bit unusual, and the fur on one side of her rear was matted, possibly also a bit thinned and discoloured. She thinks Winifred has got arthritis on the one side at least, and is spending a lot of time lying on the one side and not so able to groom her rear end. So she started her on metacam (0.2ml dog twice daily) for a week to see if she improves at all. She suggested also that I give her a little alfalfa hay to help the arthritis.

What do folk think about the idea of feeding alfalfa to older piggies? I know it's too high calcium for healthy adults, but can it help arthritic oldies? (Winnie is about 6 years old) Or would I be better off getting some glucosamine or joint support tablets?
Vet also advised a bath to clean up her matted bottom etc, which I've just done. Should I bath her regularly now if she can't groom herself so well, and if so is plain water best or should I use something like Gorgeous Guineas?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I took both Squeaks and Winifred to my vet yesterday as they had both lost weight when measured last weekend. Squeaks was down nearly 100g - I thought it might be something to do with his teeth, as they looked uneven as far as he would let me see, and I could sometimes see him having difficulty eating leaves. Winifred I couldn't see anything wrong, but she has been a bit fussy with veggies recently.

I saw a newish vet I hadn't seen before, I'm told she has more experience with exotics/small furries.

The vet weighed and checked them both over. She didn't find anything wrong with Squeaks, but could see that his teeth were indeed uneven and that one was hurting the gum, so that would account for the weightloss if he didn't want to eat so much. She was going to burr them, but couldn't as the dental surgery was in use for a doggy emergency, so we've just been back to have them done. Hopefully he will start eating properly and regain some of the lost weight. With Winifred, the vet thought her gait looked a bit unusual, and the fur on one side of her rear was matted, possibly also a bit thinned and discoloured. She thinks Winifred has got arthritis on the one side at least, and is spending a lot of time lying on the one side and not so able to groom her rear end. So she started her on metacam (0.2ml dog twice daily) for a week to see if she improves at all. She suggested also that I give her a little alfalfa hay to help the arthritis.

What do folk think about the idea of feeding alfalfa to older piggies? I know it's too high calcium for healthy adults, but can it help arthritic oldies? (Winnie is about 6 years old) Or would I be better off getting some glucosamine or joint support tablets?
Vet also advised a bath to clean up her matted bottom etc, which I've just done. Should I bath her regularly now if she can't groom herself so well, and if so is plain water best or should I use something like Gorgeous Guineas?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
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Hi

Give her regular washes; plain water is sufficient most of the time unless she is very soiled.

I haven't heard of alfalfa being used for arthritic guinea pigs but would recommend to step in with glucosamine anyway. It really makes a difference. Alfalfa would be a richer feed, as far as I can see.
 
Regarding the grooming/bathing, I personally would use plain water as much as possible, using a bit of gorgeous guineas when water alone isn’t enough

Alfalfa for arthritis is not something I’ve heard of. Glucosamine/joint supplements I would have thought would be for more useful (With an elderly arthritic rabbit myself, it’s certainly the glucosamine enriched produced I'm giving him)
 
We found glucosamine worked absolute wonders for arthritic old Clover, I'm always very sceptical about the value of dietary supplements myself but head local vet Dr Clare suggested it and within a week she could bend and straighten her old broken leg injury that we thought was permanentky fused in one position, in a fortnight she was sprinting around on tiptoes after waddling on her heels, and in a month the fur she had barbered off her painful back legs had completely grown back!
I wouldnt really do alfalfa hay myself because the calcium content is high but unknown, Clover does get a bit more high calcium parsley than the others because it is her absolute favourite veg and its easier to control intake than with hay...
But the glucosamine effect might surprise you, our vet suggested 100-130mg of glucosamine daily (a quarter of a 500mg capsule for dogs) and I sprinkle the powder between 2 thin cucumber slices to make a "limpy pig sandwich" as I call it :)
Or, Oxbow do an excellent nutritionally balanced senior joint support vegan glucosamine hay biscuit which generally I think senior arthritic pigs universally despise and it gets dropped in the toliet corner then stolen by their younger fatter friends lol!
 
@Wiebke @Piggies&buns , @PigglePuggle , thank you. I'll leave the alfalfa for now at least and concentrate on finding some vegan glucosamine as soon as possible. Is cystease for cats the best/easiest to get hold of? @PigglePuggle , which is the dog one that you use?

I may try and get some gorgeous Guineas shampoo, her white fur does seem quite stained in parts, unless that is her natural fur colour...

On another note, I think the vet today has burred Squeaks' incisors too short :rant: I was somewhat concerned when she returned him to me, as she said "I burred them short as I could, but he kept wriggling". At veg time this evening he kept just sniffing or picking up then dropping veg such as cucumber and pepper, and only ate things with stems such as coriander and celery stems when I held them out to him. He also couldn't seem to pick up or bite leaves earlier. When I went out to give them both their medicines and "tuck them up", he didn't seem himself, just stayed in a cosy tunnel and rumbled at Winnie when she sniffed him. It looks like the burring has made the not eating enough and weight loss worse, not better. :( I think I shall have to start syringe feeding him tomorrow... When I see the other vet again about Winnie in about 10 days', I'll mention the bad job. Not that it will help Squeaks, but if today's vet doesn't know how much to burr guineas' teeth, her more experienced colleagues need to show her.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
@Wiebke @Piggies&buns , @PigglePuggle , thank you. I'll leave the alfalfa for now at least and concentrate on finding some vegan glucosamine as soon as possible. Is cystease for cats the best/easiest to get hold of? @PigglePuggle , which is the dog one that you use?

I may try and get some gorgeous Guineas shampoo, her white fur does seem quite stained in parts, unless that is her natural fur colour...

On another note, I think the vet today has burred Squeaks' incisors too short :rant: I was somewhat concerned when she returned him to me, as she said "I burred them short as I could, but he kept wriggling". At veg time this evening he kept just sniffing or picking up then dropping veg such as cucumber and pepper, and only ate things with stems such as coriander and celery stems when I held them out to him. He also couldn't seem to pick up or bite leaves earlier. When I went out to give them both their medicines and "tuck them up", he didn't seem himself, just stayed in a cosy tunnel and rumbled at Winnie when she sniffed him. It looks like the burring has made the not eating enough and weight loss worse, not better. :( I think I shall have to start syringe feeding him tomorrow... When I see the other vet again about Winnie in about 10 days', I'll mention the bad job. Not that it will help Squeaks, but if today's vet doesn't know how much to burr guineas' teeth, her more experienced colleagues need to show her.
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Hi

Very sorry for the botch job! :(

What is used as carrier product in glucosamine products are crushed sea shells for better absorption than any vegan replacement; there is no meat in any non-vegan products, like cat cystease.

Please step in with syringe feeding support asap and cut any soft veg in strips. If he can still eat it, fresh grass would be great.
 
Most of the veg, including some lettuce, had been left when I checked this morning. Squeaks did start eating some soft grass that I picked for him though.
I just got a photo of his teeth, does this look as though both sets are too short?
20220703_153056.jpg

I don't know if he is eating hay, though he did bury himself in the haypile when I put him back in the hutch. Here he is in his hay nest, eating some more grass and strawberry leaves I'd just picked :D20220703_154525.jpg

I forgot to weigh him. But I'll get him some syringe food shortly.
 

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So sorry about the teehies :(

Our glucosamine isnt vegan, like @Wiebke says it is from shellfish I think, but our vet says the one I bought from Amazon is identical to the one she would prescribe but half the price.

Its Vitail Flex A Joint For Pets, from Amazon. Clover takes this fine as the capsule opened and about a quarter of the powder inside hidden between 2 thin cucumber slices.

I did try Vitail Turmeric and Glucosamine Complex with ginger and rosehips, I thought it sounded more natural and herbivore friendly, but she absolutely hated it, it just stained her face yellow lol.
 
I also think with arthritis it's well worth booking a follow up appointment with a different vet just to get a different perspective. We saw a locum last September who just said Clover's arthritis care was palliative as she was over 5 years old, and gave us loxicom plus buprenorphine for bad days- Clover isnt keen on being zonked on buprenorphine at all- then we saw the head vet a few weeks ago who was much more positive, very interested in geriatric pet health care, and she told us Clover was in excellent health apart from cataracts and arthritis and outlined a much better management plan for the arthritis that would help her stay comfortable for another 2 years possibly.
I think sometimes young vets however knowledgable might be slightly biased against the senior citizens, like any hooman over 50 or guinea pig over 5 is doomed lol- but Clover is 6 now and with the glucosamine supplements needing much less pain relief, some days I can't even catch her for the loxicom she's so mobile- and she's back to being the boss of the younger piggies!
 
Thankyou @PigglePuggle , I'll see if I can get either the stuff you mention or some other glucosamine, whichever is available soonest. I noticed that some glucosamine powders are labelled "glucosamine hydrochloride ", is that different & unsuitable?
I hope the metacam and glucosamine will do the trick to help Winifred be more comfortable and mobile. Give it a couple of weeks and if she isn't bouncing around like Clover, and this vet is out of ideas, I can see my other vet or go to Cat and Rabbit if necessary (I hope).

A little update on Squeaks - he lost 20g between Friday and Sunday, not as bad as it could be. This evening he ate a reasonable amount of veggies in strips, I also saw him eating hay.
 
An update on Winifred and her arthritis...

She had been doing okay, though not putting on weight, first with the Metacam and then with Tramadol added in September. Her weight had gone down a bit further, and was bouncing around 910-950, occasionally less and occasionally more, and i started giving her (and Squeaks) a couple of tablespoons of critical care everyday.

However now I'm starting to feel concerned about her again. The last few days she doesn't seem to move much at all, and when she does it often seems awkward. She also seems to not raise her head much, and feels really bony. I'm going to up the amount of CC they get, once a new packet is delivered, and I've a vet appointment for them both on Monday.
I dont know though whether I should get an appointment sooner, or if her condition is just due to age and nothing can be done about it ...
 
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Just caught up with your thread, don't know how I've been missing it.
Sending Winifred lots of healing vibes. I'm sorry to hear she's giving you concern. I have two arthritic piggies here, they can be such a worry at times.
 
I hope Winifred is feeling better soon. I now have 3 piggies with arthritis and understand how hard it is to see them struggling. Sending healing vibes from me and the piggies.xx
 
Are you popping heat pads in the cage?
I know that once some of mine got a bit older they actually developed a liking for snuggle safes, which they had previously treated like guinea pig eating monsters.
I always think it's a bit of a challenging time of year for our oldies.
Yours are very fortunate to be receiving such attentive care.
 
Thanks for the healing vibes 🥰

Winifred seemed a little better after spending some time - with Squeaks - in a box in front of my Aga. I took them indoors to give W a bum and paw bath and a good feel for bones and bumps, and they then shared a bowl of warm softened pellets (critical care being all gone).

I agree the cold damp weather probably doesn't help, as they're in an outbuilding, even with a heater. @Swissgreys , yes they have 3 snugglesafes in their top half of the hutch, one in the sleeping section and 2 in the other half. I sometimes find Winifred on one in a hay pile or in a cosy on top of one. I don't know if Squeaks ever uses one because he nearly always comes running to the door when he hears me , quite vociferously letting me know he's starving again :xd: (he's going to the vet Monday because one of his lower incisors has broken again, so they need burring again... and so it goes on!)

Warm healing vibes to your arthritic piggies too, @piggieminder and @YvonneBlue 💓
 
We saw the vet yesterday for both Winifred and Squeaks. Winifred seems better than she did when I was concerned last week, not so inclined to lean down to the left as she was, and the vet also said that her walking seems better and the condition of her bum fur is better than back in July, so the meds must be helping the pain of the arthritis a lot. Her weight has gone up a bit since last week but she is still only about 900g and feels so bony.

The vet had a thorough feel etc, but couldn't find anything that would explain last week's weight loss, unless it was that the bumblefoot seems to have come back since the Baytril course finished :no: Unfortunately, she said removing the bumblefoot crust/scab would probably be very painful and maybe leave a deep raw wound so would have to be done under GA. Likewise any further investigations, blood tests etc, would need GA too. As W is 6+ years old, and now quite underweight, that doesn't seem like a good idea. So it looks like she is effectively on palliative care, as she is already on the max dose of Tramadol for the arthritis.

She is back on the Baytril :vom:, though the vet says it won't cure the bumblefoot, only stop it getting worse. For the rest, I will continue with the daily dish of critical care, and cystease (she recently decided she doesn't like the joint support biscuits any more, little madam!), and add in some oat hay and alfalfa hay as a protein rich treat to help rebuild some muscle mass, with the occasional bum&foot bath as required. I don't think there's really anything else I can do, though I'm open to suggestions...
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
We saw the vet yesterday for both Winifred and Squeaks. Winifred seems better than she did when I was concerned last week, not so inclined to lean down to the left as she was, and the vet also said that her walking seems better and the condition of her bum fur is better than back in July, so the meds must be helping the pain of the arthritis a lot. Her weight has gone up a bit since last week but she is still only about 900g and feels so bony.

The vet had a thorough feel etc, but couldn't find anything that would explain last week's weight loss, unless it was that the bumblefoot seems to have come back since the Baytril course finished :no: Unfortunately, she said removing the bumblefoot crust/scab would probably be very painful and maybe leave a deep raw wound so would have to be done under GA. Likewise any further investigations, blood tests etc, would need GA too. As W is 6+ years old, and now quite underweight, that doesn't seem like a good idea. So it looks like she is effectively on palliative care, as she is already on the max dose of Tramadol for the arthritis.

She is back on the Baytril :vom:, though the vet says it won't cure the bumblefoot, only stop it getting worse. For the rest, I will continue with the daily dish of critical care, and cystease (she recently decided she doesn't like the joint support biscuits any more, little madam!), and add in some oat hay and alfalfa hay as a protein rich treat to help rebuild some muscle mass, with the occasional bum&foot bath as required. I don't think there's really anything else I can do, though I'm open to suggestions...
Click to expand...
Not sure if you have tried Winifred on 4Joints, it was recommended to me by Debbie at TEAS and all three of my piggies with arthritis are taking it (0.4ml once a day). I noticed a real difference in them after 3/4 weeks on this, they are definitely more mobile. They all seem to like the taste of it too. We but it from Amazon.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003BOFZW0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
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