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Baytril Concerns - Possible Cheilitis

Teema

Teema

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
155
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260
Points
345
Location
Ayrshire
Hi everyone!
One of my gorgeous girl’s (Penny) has some scabs around her lips, they have gotten worse in the past two weeks and after doing some of my own research I really do think it is Cheilitis.
A trip to the vet this evening and the vet has prescribed her 0.2ml of Baytril twice a day for ten days (orally via syringe).
I have now read a bit more on Baytril and I am now terrified to give it to her! So many horror stories! The vet did not mention cheilitis at all and didn’t really give us much information as to what could actually be wrong i.e. is it a fungal or bacterial infection?
I have read awful things about Baytril and can’t really find anyone else who said they have used it to treat cheilitis, it seems to really only be for urine or respiratory infections.
I couldn’t live with myself if anything happened to her, I need to know that I am doing what is best for her, please may I have some advice?
Here are some (blurry) photos of her wee mouth taken a couple weeks ago so it has unfortunately gotten a little worse (I had already taken her to the vet who said only to bring her back if it does get worse).
Please help!
 

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Sorry I can’t help as I don’t have the knowledge but wanted to assure you that some of the health experts will be along.
Welcome to the forum and I hope things work out ok
 
Oh thank you so much! It is much appreciated, I am such a worrier it is so nice to have a place to come to for some reassurance and advice, thank you!
 
Teema said:
Hi everyone!
One of my gorgeous girl’s (Penny) has some scabs around her lips, they have gotten worse in the past two weeks and after doing some of my own research I really do think it is Cheilitis.
A trip to the vet this evening and the vet has prescribed her 0.2ml of Baytril twice a day for ten days (orally via syringe).
I have now read a bit more on Baytril and I am now terrified to give it to her! So many horror stories! The vet did not mention cheilitis at all and didn’t really give us much information as to what could actually be wrong i.e. is it a fungal or bacterial infection?
I have read awful things about Baytril and can’t really find anyone else who said they have used it to treat cheilitis, it seems to really only be for urine or respiratory infections.
I couldn’t live with myself if anything happened to her, I need to know that I am doing what is best for her, please may I have some advice?
Here are some (blurry) photos of her wee mouth taken a couple weeks ago so it has unfortunately gotten a little worse (I had already taken her to the vet who said only to bring her back if it does get worse).
Please help!
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Hi and welcome

PLEASE take into account when doing your online research that you will only ever get the all horror stories, anecdotal miracle cures or their accomplished pets. What do NOT see is the vast majority of 'normality' - who would post about something as mundane and unexciting as a successful course of antibiotic? That is simply accepted as par for the course.
If you find that online research makes you feel more anxious than empowered, I would recommend to stay away and rather come here for more balanced, supportive and practical advice! ;)

Baytril would NOT still the only licensed and by far the most prescribed antibiotic for guinea pigs world-wide if things really were as bad they come across. Adverse reactions can happen to any antibiotic, but they are a comparatively small minority and you can usually work past them or change the antibiotic. There are a few others that are safe to use, if not officially licensed. ;)

I would recommend that you give either 1 pinch of probiotic 1 hour before the antibiotic (US recommendation) or 1-2 hours after the antibiotic (UK recommendation). 'Poo soup' made from totally fresh poos that have literally just dropped out is even more effective if a bit gross. Please take the time to read the following links; you may find them very helpful in case of an adverse reaction.
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Since cheilitis is caused by acid from fruit and tomatoes causing tiny cracks in the skin through which a variety of bugs can get into, I would strongly recommend to you stop feeding fruit and veg and instead use our sample diet in the future. Some guinea pigs are much more sensitive, but it is advisable to stop if you have a cheilitis piggy. Your guinea pigs can live to a grand old age without fruit and tomato, by the way - I have a number of them... ;)
Guinea Lynx :: Cheilitis
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please keep any further questions and updates during treatment to this specially monitored ongoing support thread so can keep all relevant information together and give you the best advice for your individual situation without repeating standard info.
 
I don’t have experience in this particular issue but I certainly suggest seeing a more piggy savvy vet. There a vet locator on the forum :)

I hate the way most vets just chuck baytril at small animals without even bothering to diagnose it or figuring out what bacteria might be present. Baytril may not even be effective against it. I must admit I’m not a big fan of baytril, it would be worth getting some probiotics to protect the tummy.

Do you feed much fruit? That’s often the cause of it due to the acidity so it will definitely help to cut down on it :)
 
You all replied so quickly thank you so much! I am such a worrier and I honestly would just be beside myself if anything happened to either of my girls.
Thanks so much for the reassurance regarding the Baytril, so many posts saying that piggies have died and I just went into a total panic especially since I’ve just given her her daily dose! I never thought of it like that, you’re absolutely right (I will be sure to post my positive and probably very boring story about it working now so others don’t panic like me haha!)
Fruit wise my piggies don’t really get much, occasionally a piece of watermelon (infact they’ve actually only had it twice in their wee lives) as they much prefer coriander, it is a firm favourite! Aciditiy wise they really don’t get anything nor citrus fruits as generally speaking my girls like their veggies much more and would appreciate some spinach over a slice of apple any day!:yahoo:
Sorry I am such a chatterbox!
All that advice is so appreciated I can’t thank you all enough, I feel a lot better now!

I will continue with her Baytril at the moment and will keep an eye on her if I think she is starting to go off her food or have an upset tummy - the vet did not prescribe an probiotic, should I ask for one? It is only 0.2ml twice a day so maybe it’s such a small dose this is why they did not prescribe it?

Additionally I had a quick look at the recommended vets and unfortunately none are nearby me, I live in the south west coat of Scotland and none of them are close enough - if anyone knows of anyone in the Ayrshire area please let me know!

Thank you again for your quick replies everyone and great advice, I appreciate it so much you have no idea!
 
Forgot to say as well the poo soup sounds like a great, albeit gross, idea! Should I give this a go before trying her with a probiotic? Or just forego it and dive straight in with one of the probiotics listed in the replies above?

Thanks so much again guys, sorry to bombard with so many questions etc, I am new to the forum but I have had guinea pigs most of my life and felt I really knew my stuff but I have never came across any health problems with any of my piggies before and I am just so scared to do anything wrong!
 
You can never ask too many questions.
We learn as much from the questions other people ask as we do from the questions we ask.

I can't answer the health questions but I can offer support.
A sick piggy is worrying so don't forget we are here for you
 
Thank you all again for your advice and support.
Update on Penny;
We went for the Pets at Home Pro-C Probiotic powder - it was listed in the guidelines here. What a disaster that was! My Penny is a rascal! Nevertheless we managed to disguise some spinach leaves for her and she ate them and we put a little in her water bottle as well (wanted to do both as want to make sure Penny got some probiotic directly as her and her sister, Poppy, share a water bottle).
She seemed fine last night her usual bright self, greedy as ever and was drinking some water.
This morning however I am starting to worry. Every morning that I get up and open the blinds and say hello and talk to my girls without fail they come running out to greet me (they know it’s feeding time) and, of course, out ran Poppy to say hello, but Penny has stayed in her bed. Very unusual.
I rustled a bag and she did come out and wheek, ate a little of her greens, and has gone back to her wee bed, Poppy was out to eat her fresh hay and Penny wasn’t that fussed (she would usually sit and eat hay until the whole rack was gone!). Am I being overly anxious? It is the slightest changes in her behaviour, gross I know but I have been checking poos in the cage also and all look normal.
Could it just be from feeling overall poorly with a sore mouth, and being irritated as her Dad and I keep annoying her with a syringe of medicine each night and now Pro-C powder?
Or is this an indication that she isn’t taking well to the antibiotic Baytril?

Thanks again for all your advice.
 
I wouldn’t put the pro c in the water bottle just syringe a tiny bit to her each day, baytril is a fine antibiotic for most infections though it can put them off food a little so I would advise just keeping an eye. As long as she is eating then keep up with the antibiotics. How long left in the course?
 
Thank you! Unfortunately none of the vets are nearby me but I have messaged one Ayr’s Guinea Pig Rescue centre and asked which vet they use if I really feel I need to change vet.

She’s not eating much I’m afraid, and acting rather strange. (As I’m writing this she is finally take a drink of water! I don’t think I’ve seen her drink all afternoon, the water is changed now so no Pro-C in it).

She was sitting for an awfully long time all puffed up in her wee bed, I walked over and normally she would jump up or at least acknowledge me however she just stayed put, very unresponsive and quite unlike her (despite being a rather lazy piggie most of the time).
This morning, my parents came for a visit and brought a bag of spinach (I know they aren’t meant to get this all the time but it’s just for the sake of getting the syringe of Baytril into her mouth) and she heard the bag rustle and came out and wheeked and happily ate some of the leaves.

However, it was after we tried her with her medicine this morning that she went all strange. We didn’t actually manage to giver the antibiotic this morning, it was far too difficult and she was getting very stressed so I decided to just leave it for now. She went to bed again, stayed all fluffed/puffed up and not very responsive, gave her some coriander and she just wasn’t interested, tried giving some spinach again and still not interested (these are her absolute favourite foods as well) and she just wouldn’t get out of bed, even when her sister, Poppy, was happily devouring the veggies and fresh hay.

I eventually lifted her out of bed and gave her a cuddle and again tried her with some veggies and she still wasn’t having it.
Every day my piggies are allowed to roam free in our living room for as long as they want so I put her on the floor to see if she would perk up and she did a little. She wandered about some and followed Poppy for a while and then jumped back into her cage to eat some hay.

Tried her with some carrot, again, still not interested (it is so unlike her to not want veggies, she would usually snatch it straight from us and wheek until we fed her).
So again, a little later, she is sitting beside her hay rack, really puffed up, like really fluffy and almost hunched, just not moving, not responsive (not staring into a corner though) despite the cage being wide open and Poppy running around daft. She would normally join her.

I took her out for another cuddle and again she is just being very quiet, still and perhaps tired is the way to describe it? She’s back in her bed now, fluffed up again, looking sorry for herself if I’m totally honest. She’s had a wee drink of water thankfully.

Also, had a quick look, her poos are quite small and not their usual shape.

Medicine;
Baytril 0.2ml twice a day via syringe for 10 days. We started on Tuesday evening with one dose, then she had her two doses yesterday and today she hasn’t had any yet.

We have an emergency vet appointment at 6.30pm this evening so I am not going to stress her out trying to do the syringe with the Baytril/Pro-C again until we have seen the vet.

Is this the correct way to treat the cheilitis? I am almost 100% sure that is what is wrong with her I just cannot see it being anything else, her mouth matches other pictures exactly of piggies with cheilitis.

Thank you all again for the advice it is so appreciated, I am now really concerned for her (not eating coriander or spinach is a major red flag I think, she would eat that for the rest of her life if we let her!) so really appreciate having you all for support and advice.

Here is a photo of Penny sitting all puffed up as I said, albeit worrying she is rather sweet like that, so fluffy! And another one where you can see her eyes/face, I think she looks bright enough in her eyes, what do you think?

Thanks again guys, so much
 

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What is the town you are in?
 
Sorry guys I know I do blether an awful lot I just want to make sure I am providing the most accurate information I wouldn’t want to miss anything vital.

I meant to add that, has she gone off the spinach/coriander perhaps because we are baiting her with it for her medication and now she is savvy to it so is avoiding it? Just another idea as to why she is suddenly refusing her absolute favourite foods.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
We've used itrafungol for these issues, rather than an antibiotic x
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I have heard of the itrafungol, will I get this at the vet or chemist, or maybe online? I don’t care about how much things cost as long as she gets better and it isn’t something that will make her more poorly (she was totally fine before today and prior to the antibiotic, her mouth wasn’t even bothering her at all!).


Thankyou all x
 
Teema said:
I have heard of the itrafungol, will I get this at the vet or chemist, or maybe online? I don’t care about how much things cost as long as she gets better and it isn’t something that will make her more poorly (she was totally fine before today and prior to the antibiotic, her mouth wasn’t even bothering her at all!).


Thankyou all x
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Vets would prescribe it. Itrafungal is an anti fungal, i believe Cheilitis could be fungal or bacterial but most commonly fungal
 
Good vets in Glasgow area that close to you?

Laura, Nikki and Eileen
Smithy House,
E Kilbride Rd,
Rutherglen,
Glasgow
G73 5QU
0141 6343183
Contact Us
 
Fabulous thankyou.

Is there any advice specifically on what I can say to my vet when I take her this evening?

The vet didn’t once mention cheilitis, I am only going by my own research and don’t really want to argue with the vet as they are meant to be the expert.

Could I maybe ask the vet about treating her with both the Baytril for bacterial and the Itrafungal incase it is fungal?
 
Oh Rutherglen would actually be perfect it’s only half an hour up the road! If I still feel uncomfortable with my vet’s advice this evening and if I still see no improvement I shall give them a call. Cheers! X
 
Merab's Slave said:
Sorry you are having such an anxious time.
I can’t add to the advice but wanted to offer support
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You’re all so kind I really appreciate it thanks so much. It’s great to have somewhere to ask all these questions and knowing there’s other people out there who ‘get it’, I think a lot of people don’t realise just how complex guinea pig care can be and I’m glad that you guys on the forum are so understanding! Thank you
 
Quick update;

She is munching on some celery, thank goodness, but still staying in her bed fluffed up, she feels a little cool.
 
Update again;

Emergency vet appointment went well. Thankfully we got to see the most senior small animal vet in the surgery (whom we were meant to see on the Tuesday night but he was off so were seen to by someone else) - he really knew what he was talking about and we left feeling reassured and totally confident in his guidance. He has decided to stop the Baytril for Penny for now, he checked her for signs of dehydration, her heartbeat, asked about her using the toilet, had a good look at her mouth, weighed her etc etc and spoke to us for a good while and I felt like he really listened to our concerns and he was really informative - he added as well that the Pro-C Probiotic is great stuff for guinea pigs and to continue giving it to her. He believes more than anything that it could be the stress of trying to make her take the syringe that is causing her to act unusually, and explained that the scabs on her mouth aren’t bothering her too much and are also not life threatening whereas of course if she is refusing to eat and drink that is life threatening so we are better to stop the Baytril and just leave the scabs for now - it is much more important that she eat and drink. He wants to see her again in a week.

Thank you all again. :luv:
 
I hope all goes well for her. Haven't dealt with cheilitis myself, but I have had several pigs on Baytril... most were not bothered, but some exhibited really odd behavior probably linked to gut upset (Hadley goes nuts and tries to eat EVERYTHING... the carpet, the walls, fabric, everything!) They did get back to normal after the Baytril course ended, though. Otherwise it is a safe and often-prescribed antibiotic (and I had one pig take it long-term for bladder bacteria suppression- luckily she was one of the pigs that was never bothered by it), but there are other options out there so in the future you may want to mention this reaction to the vet.
 
Freela said:
I hope all goes well for her. Haven't dealt with cheilitis myself, but I have had several pigs on Baytril... most were not bothered, but some exhibited really odd behavior probably linked to gut upset (Hadley goes nuts and tries to eat EVERYTHING... the carpet, the walls, fabric, everything!) They did get back to normal after the Baytril course ended, though. Otherwise it is a safe and often-prescribed antibiotic (and I had one pig take it long-term for bladder bacteria suppression- luckily she was one of the pigs that was never bothered by it), but there are other options out there so in the future you may want to mention this reaction to the vet.
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Thank you!
I’m glad to hear that your piggies went back to normal once off it as I was so worried it might really do damage to her. The vet last night at the emergency appointment said the same that Baytril is the most prescribed for guinea pigs however he was happy to stop it and see if she perked up as of course if she wasn’t eating or drinking then that really is life threatening whereas the little scabs on her mouth aren’t.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience on Baytril with me, it’s good to know that it does get prescribed to many piggies, and as you said, safe! Quite funny that it made one of yours want to eat everything though haha! Penny did try munch the rug yesterday come to think of it lol.

Thank you for the advice and reassurance - she seems to be back to her normal self this morning thankfully, she jumped out of bed to greet me and get fed this morning and late last night my partner/her dad went to check on her and she was up and about eating her dry food.

Thank you so much, it is great to hear someone else’s experience it really helps! X
 
Cheilitis is a difficult thing to to treat because it has a number of different potential causes. The baytril dose your little on sounds low if it's for the treatment of it. There are lots of different ways to treat including topical and oral like you are doing so. Is it getting any better?

x
 
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