So glad to hear Bilbo's doing well x>> Keep it up Bilbo!xox
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Bilbo-Heart failure :(
- Thread starter ZaraPiggie6
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So glad to hear Bilbo is doing better. I've cared for numerous heart pigs with different kinds of heart conditions over the years. Currently I have five, including two who live with congestive heart failure.
I'm sorry to hear that Bilbo had such a hard time of things at the start and that he may not yet be out of the woods, so to speak. He does sound as though he is significantly improved and that with proper meds and a watchful eye, he may just be alright. I sincerely hope that's the case.
Poor little things can be real fighters with just a bit of attention and daily maintenance meds. You've done so well with catching the signs and seeking treatment immediately! Heart meds are the next step. You've seen excellent improvement with just the lasix/furosemide. You should see even more with the blood pressure medication.
With heart pigs, even when on meds, you always have it in the back of your mind that you could lose them any day. However, they can do quite well and have good, long lives. It all depends on circumstances and the individual piggie. You are doing what you can and a great job of it!
Me and all the piggies are pulling for little Bilbo! Take care!
I'm sorry to hear that Bilbo had such a hard time of things at the start and that he may not yet be out of the woods, so to speak. He does sound as though he is significantly improved and that with proper meds and a watchful eye, he may just be alright. I sincerely hope that's the case.
Poor little things can be real fighters with just a bit of attention and daily maintenance meds. You've done so well with catching the signs and seeking treatment immediately! Heart meds are the next step. You've seen excellent improvement with just the lasix/furosemide. You should see even more with the blood pressure medication.
With heart pigs, even when on meds, you always have it in the back of your mind that you could lose them any day. However, they can do quite well and have good, long lives. It all depends on circumstances and the individual piggie. You are doing what you can and a great job of it!
Me and all the piggies are pulling for little Bilbo! Take care!
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
I'm supposed to be going away to derby next fri/sat back on sunday. I think I'm gonna have to cancel to keep an eye on him. i dont wanna leave him that long and i dont trust my piggie sitter to give correct dosage/meds. 
My tattooist is gonna kill me
bilbos pooping normally today and we had another chat in bed this morning lol Ive been giving him extra foodies cos hes lost weight. His lips are back to being lovely and pink although his breathing still sounds strained to me.
My tattooist is gonna kill me
bilbos pooping normally today and we had another chat in bed this morning lol Ive been giving him extra foodies cos hes lost weight. His lips are back to being lovely and pink although his breathing still sounds strained to me.
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ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
Ive cancelled my hotel and txt my tattooist. I'm really gutted but what can i do? If something were to happen to him whilst I'm away i wouldnt be able to live with myself
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
the swelling on hs bumblefoot ha gone down alot today. wonder if the two are related...
Maybe...humans get swelling in their ankles and feet during heart failure, but I'm no expert and maybe it has nothing to do with it, but, if it does, then that's a good sign the frusamide is working, I'm sure someone else will know for sure though!
Sorry you had to cancel your trip
xox
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
He seems to be sleeping alot today. Ive given all his stuff a wash and dry and give him, the sft present house which hes been asleep in for ages.
He's still eating an was waiting to be fed before. He's been talking more aswell which he hardly ever does. He seems to be peeing more than usual to, is that the diuretic?
He's still eating an was waiting to be fed before. He's been talking more aswell which he hardly ever does. He seems to be peeing more than usual to, is that the diuretic?
flintstones
Senior Guinea Pig
I can't help in the medical sense, I have never had a pig with heart Failure or Heart problems but I do know Diuretic makes you urinate more.
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
I'm gonna ring the vet
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
phew vet says he sounds ok and to pop him in in the week for a check
Very long post addressing several things.
Hope it all helps!
Also hope he continues to improve.
I am SOOOOO pleased he is doing better.
The peeing more than normal is because of the lasix/furosemide. That means it's doing it job. It is taking excess fluid off his lungs and any build up he may have had in other tissues, as well.
When a pig is on a med like this, you always need to keep an eye on how much water they are consuming and on pee. It's a daily dance (at least in the beginning) to make sure they don't show any signs of fluid buildup or dehydration. When you go to the vet talk about signs of both so you know what to look for.
Once you get the issues relatively under control you’ll be able to relax some as the right dose of meds – both lasix and lotensin – on a daily schedule will make it easier for him and you won’t have to worry or be as watchful. You will still need to be on watch for signs that meds need to be adjusted and there are some heart pigs who need the lasix adjusted more often if they have days where raspy breathing is more evident, etc. If your vet is familiar with heart problems – which is sounds like they are – then they should be able to advise you well on the subject of monitoring and adjusting medications.
He may be sleeping more because his blood pressure is still out of wack. You should see some improvement once he is on lotensin/benezapril or another form of the blood pressure meds. He will likely sleep more and rest more even once on the meds as he is in the “final stages†of congestive heart failure though. Don’t take this the wrong way when I say “final†as he could still live a long and good life. It just means that the advanced stages where the heart is in real distress and the lungs continually fill with fluid is considered the final stage.
The medications can do wonders and keep him happy and living a good life for years. My Rufus has been in the final stages of heart failure for almost his whole life and is now 3 years and 2 – 6 months in age so there is no absolute “final†about it.
Some sick piggies do talk more often. I think they are just communicating how they feel and their gratitude for you helping them to feel better.
When he talks, you may hear him struggling – an airyness in his whistles or wheeking. He may try to talk some times and not manage much sound. Airyness can be a sign the heart is enlarged and pressing on the trachea – lotensin helps with this but likely nothing will fix it. You may also hear raspiness or a gurgling sort of noise. These are signs that the lasix dose may not be enough on any given day. Labored breathing and fluid from the nose, eyes, mouth are all also signs that the lasix needs to be adjusted.
Keep in mind that a tiny bit of fluid crustiness around the nostrils and eyes in pigs that are on lasix is normal in advanced congestive heart failure. The lasix can cause this as a side effect, while it is also a symptom of the heart failure/fluid retention and buildup itself. You will need to keep an eye on how much is present, and again, a good knowledgeable heart pig vet will be able educate you on all of these signs and what to what for, monitor, etc..
The swelling of bumblefoot going down is also a sign that things are working for Bilbo. Heart pigs are more prone to the development of bumblefoot and you should see improvement when meds are at the correct dosages. You may have flare ups with it and he may need to see a vet more often for antibiotics and probiotics because of it.
Excellent sign that his lips are all nice and pink!
He may have raspy breathing for some time as you get the fluid under control. This is also another area in which blood pressure meds will help. Once the heart doesn’t have to work so hard you will likely see an improvement in his breathing as well. The furosemide/lasix in combination with lotensin/benezapril/some other generic form of blood pressure meds does wonders for these little guys in many cases. It’s important to get him on it ASAP to relieve the strain on his heart. The lasix removes some strain, but the two in combo are what he really needs.
Hope it all helps!
Also hope he continues to improve.
I am SOOOOO pleased he is doing better.
The peeing more than normal is because of the lasix/furosemide. That means it's doing it job. It is taking excess fluid off his lungs and any build up he may have had in other tissues, as well.
When a pig is on a med like this, you always need to keep an eye on how much water they are consuming and on pee. It's a daily dance (at least in the beginning) to make sure they don't show any signs of fluid buildup or dehydration. When you go to the vet talk about signs of both so you know what to look for.
Once you get the issues relatively under control you’ll be able to relax some as the right dose of meds – both lasix and lotensin – on a daily schedule will make it easier for him and you won’t have to worry or be as watchful. You will still need to be on watch for signs that meds need to be adjusted and there are some heart pigs who need the lasix adjusted more often if they have days where raspy breathing is more evident, etc. If your vet is familiar with heart problems – which is sounds like they are – then they should be able to advise you well on the subject of monitoring and adjusting medications.
He may be sleeping more because his blood pressure is still out of wack. You should see some improvement once he is on lotensin/benezapril or another form of the blood pressure meds. He will likely sleep more and rest more even once on the meds as he is in the “final stages†of congestive heart failure though. Don’t take this the wrong way when I say “final†as he could still live a long and good life. It just means that the advanced stages where the heart is in real distress and the lungs continually fill with fluid is considered the final stage.
The medications can do wonders and keep him happy and living a good life for years. My Rufus has been in the final stages of heart failure for almost his whole life and is now 3 years and 2 – 6 months in age so there is no absolute “final†about it.
Some sick piggies do talk more often. I think they are just communicating how they feel and their gratitude for you helping them to feel better.
When he talks, you may hear him struggling – an airyness in his whistles or wheeking. He may try to talk some times and not manage much sound. Airyness can be a sign the heart is enlarged and pressing on the trachea – lotensin helps with this but likely nothing will fix it. You may also hear raspiness or a gurgling sort of noise. These are signs that the lasix dose may not be enough on any given day. Labored breathing and fluid from the nose, eyes, mouth are all also signs that the lasix needs to be adjusted.
Keep in mind that a tiny bit of fluid crustiness around the nostrils and eyes in pigs that are on lasix is normal in advanced congestive heart failure. The lasix can cause this as a side effect, while it is also a symptom of the heart failure/fluid retention and buildup itself. You will need to keep an eye on how much is present, and again, a good knowledgeable heart pig vet will be able educate you on all of these signs and what to what for, monitor, etc..
The swelling of bumblefoot going down is also a sign that things are working for Bilbo. Heart pigs are more prone to the development of bumblefoot and you should see improvement when meds are at the correct dosages. You may have flare ups with it and he may need to see a vet more often for antibiotics and probiotics because of it.
Excellent sign that his lips are all nice and pink!
He may have raspy breathing for some time as you get the fluid under control. This is also another area in which blood pressure meds will help. Once the heart doesn’t have to work so hard you will likely see an improvement in his breathing as well. The furosemide/lasix in combination with lotensin/benezapril/some other generic form of blood pressure meds does wonders for these little guys in many cases. It’s important to get him on it ASAP to relieve the strain on his heart. The lasix removes some strain, but the two in combo are what he really needs.
Glynis
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Really sorry to hear about dear little Bilbo
You got onto it so quickly WELL DONE! xx>>>
And what fab help and info you've received, WELL DONE EVERYONE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
HEALING WHEEEEEEEEEEKY LOVES FROM THE GIRLS AND I XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
You got onto it so quickly WELL DONE! xx>>>
And what fab help and info you've received, WELL DONE EVERYONE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
HEALING WHEEEEEEEEEEKY LOVES FROM THE GIRLS AND I XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
Thankyou so much for all of that, very helpful indeed. Ive been having trouble trying to find useful information. I'm taking him back friday for a check up and to ask about blood pressure meds. I'm off work so i can have a good chat. I think ill do alist of things i want to ask so i dont forget anything.
He seems ALOT brighter today and was waiting for me when got in. Ive been to wilos today and bught them LOTS of treats. They had a food ive never seen before. It's got a built in pro-biotic and claims to "contain ingredients good for the immune system" figured it cant hurt to give him a bit (mixed with his usual of course) and a big bunch of parsley and fancy spinach with all the stems on. Little cost me a fortune. I wouldnt have it any other way though.
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ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
I wouldn't wait until Friday's appointment to get him heart medication. If at all possible, I would have him seen sooner or at least talk to the vet about doing a trial run of benezapril/lotensin until you are able to get him seen. Even if you can simply pick up medicine from the vet and get him started on it and then take him in for a recheck visit on Friday, that would be better.
His weakness and tiredness are because his heart is strained. Without proper meds his heart could fail quickly. Even with proper meds, of course, the time he has left is not entirely within your control, but at least with the right medications you know you've done what you can to make him comfortable and give him a good chance at survival.
The longer he goes without medication the greater the strain on his heart. Keep in mind that the the lasix is only removing excess fluid not relieving all heart strain or decreasing blood pressure. He could simply have a heart attack from too high of blood pressure due to the heart struggling to pump under less than optimum conditions.
Here are a few helpful links on Guinea Lynx about heart conditions.
http://www.guinealynx.info/cardiovascular_agents.html
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34346
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25375&highlight=congestive+heart+failure
You can also find a ton of other threads in their forums related to heart conditions. If you go to their forum search page here
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/search.php
and do a search using the terms "Congestive AND Heart AND Failure" you will find tons of information from people that have gone through the same issues with their pigs.
I'm glad Bilbo is still hanging in there! But I would try to get meds sooner rather than later for him. I would also caution against using enalapril! Though it was used often by some vets when they first started to treat heart problems in pigs, it simply has too many side effects, some of which can be deadly. There are other, better heart/blood pressure meds out there. All of mine (current and past heart pigs) have taken benezapril a cheaper, generic form of lotensin.
His weakness and tiredness are because his heart is strained. Without proper meds his heart could fail quickly. Even with proper meds, of course, the time he has left is not entirely within your control, but at least with the right medications you know you've done what you can to make him comfortable and give him a good chance at survival.
The longer he goes without medication the greater the strain on his heart. Keep in mind that the the lasix is only removing excess fluid not relieving all heart strain or decreasing blood pressure. He could simply have a heart attack from too high of blood pressure due to the heart struggling to pump under less than optimum conditions.
Here are a few helpful links on Guinea Lynx about heart conditions.
http://www.guinealynx.info/cardiovascular_agents.html
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34346
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25375&highlight=congestive+heart+failure
You can also find a ton of other threads in their forums related to heart conditions. If you go to their forum search page here
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/search.php
and do a search using the terms "Congestive AND Heart AND Failure" you will find tons of information from people that have gone through the same issues with their pigs.
I'm glad Bilbo is still hanging in there! But I would try to get meds sooner rather than later for him. I would also caution against using enalapril! Though it was used often by some vets when they first started to treat heart problems in pigs, it simply has too many side effects, some of which can be deadly. There are other, better heart/blood pressure meds out there. All of mine (current and past heart pigs) have taken benezapril a cheaper, generic form of lotensin.
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
been in and got some benezapril spoke to the vet who saw him and she agreed to give me a few days worth until he is seen friday.
she also told me as he has improoved to give him half the dose of frusemide.
she also told me as he has improoved to give him half the dose of frusemide.
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
I'm going to ask about Fortekor on Friday. that opne is Peter Gurney recomended.
Hope all is well! Let us know how it goes at the vet on Friday. All the best!
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
He's been great thankyou. Looking alot brighter and eating well. weve got a nice little routine going on. He takes the tablet out of my palm and then gets a chin kiss whih he returns then some cranberry juice which he loves just to be sure the tablet has gone down. Hes such a cutey. Tempted to go get him a frein but i wondering if trying to pair him will stress him out. ill let you know how i get on tomoz.
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
Been to the vets. His heart is now beating normally and his lungs are clear. He did however think he has fluid retention in his stomach. Hes also put some weight on. the vet was pretty happy with his progress and said to keep doing what I'm doing. Hes given me a months worth of meds and wants to see him again befor ei run out or if he goes downhill sooner.
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
quite a big tranformation in bilbo lately! dont know if it's just me but i swear he looks younger and brighter. Hes been talking his head off all week to!
That kind of transformation in a heart pig that is on the proper meds is not unusual. I'm sure you really are seeing those things in him. It is always so gratifying to know that they are getting what they need and that they are more comfortable, capable and happy. So very pleased that Bilbo is doing so well!
If you're worried about him getting the meds in pill form you can crush them, mix them with water or cranberry juice, since he loves that so much, and syringe to him instead.
All of us here say way to go Bilbo!! Get it up, little man!
If you're worried about him getting the meds in pill form you can crush them, mix them with water or cranberry juice, since he loves that so much, and syringe to him instead.
All of us here say way to go Bilbo!! Get it up, little man!
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
He's been fine with the tablets! I offer him it on mypalm and he just takes it! lol
helen105281
Senior Guinea Pig
So pleased you have seen such a transformation in Bilbo now he's on the right meds. We have seen the same transformation in both of our heart pigs (Nigel and Honey). There'll be ups and downs but on the right meds they do really well.
ZaraPiggie6
Adult Guinea Pig
Havnt been on here for a while so i thought i would update.
Bilbo is still going strong and doing very well. We do have odd days were he is raspy but a little extra meds does the tick (i did check that with the vet). He is currently muching away with gusto. He's due his 3 month review on sat.
I have however noticed he has a new lump its on his underside sort of by his armpit but I'm fairly certain its a fatty lump. Could be wrong however but i will get it looked at on sat.
Bilbo is still going strong and doing very well. We do have odd days were he is raspy but a little extra meds does the tick (i did check that with the vet). He is currently muching away with gusto. He's due his 3 month review on sat.
I have however noticed he has a new lump
its on his underside sort of by his armpit but I'm fairly certain its a fatty lump. Could be wrong however but i will get it looked at on sat. 
I'm sorry Ive only just seen this. I'm glad hes doing better, you sound like your doing a fab job. I'm amazed he'll take the tablet and just eat it! Long may it continue. Hope the lump is nothing serious either
Sarah xx
Hope the lump is nothing serious either Sarah xx
doglovinpiggylover
Senior Guinea Pig
hey, how are you, not seen you on for ages and ages.
Good news about Bilbo
Good news about Bilbo
P
piggyfan
Hi nice to see you back! I was wondering were you went to. Great Bilbo is doing better. I really hope the lump is nothing serious. Good luck with it.
Guinea Slave
Adult Guinea Pig
Only just seen this and I am soooo releived he is OK! Really pleased for you as you both deserve it 
He sounds gorgeous.
It is odd though how a few of us in the last few weeks seem to have had this issue? Heart probs and fluid in the lungs? I wonder if its something to do with the weather?
I have had (and have) several heart pigs. One passed on so peacefully in my arms it was one of the loveliest ways I could imagine anyone could go (human or animal) both the others are on heart meds (Fortekor and Frusol) one has been on this for over a year and is doing incredibly well and we only gave him a few weeks at the time so there is hope! The other is work in progress but seems to be improving. Keep us posted!
He sounds gorgeous.It is odd though how a few of us in the last few weeks seem to have had this issue? Heart probs and fluid in the lungs? I wonder if its something to do with the weather?
I have had (and have) several heart pigs. One passed on so peacefully in my arms it was one of the loveliest ways I could imagine anyone could go (human or animal) both the others are on heart meds (Fortekor and Frusol) one has been on this for over a year and is doing incredibly well and we only gave him a few weeks at the time so there is hope! The other is work in progress but seems to be improving. Keep us posted!
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