Bonding in cage! help!

[Piggies&buns]

I can’t see that separating buffy will help, may even makes things worse as she will then need to re-establish herself. When you were to go to put her back in, you will have to go through the bonding all over again. She is queen pig and if she doesn’t want anybody else in her grouping, then there is nothing you can do to make it happen. If you wish to give it a few more days then that is up to you but you need to keep an eye out for bullying, ensuring the new girls aren’t becoming subdued and are getting their share of food.

It might be a space issue, but again it may just be buffy being top pig, but you need to be careful with suddenly enlarging a cage as if can set of territory disputes. The recommended for three pigs is a 2x5 c&c/6ft x 2ft, so obviously for four you need more than that

 

[Wiebke]

I can’t see that separating buffy will help, may even makes things worse as she will then need to re-establish herself. When you were to go to put her back in, you will have to go through the bonding all over again. She is queen pig and if she doesn’t want anybody else in her grouping, then there is nothing you can do to make it happen. If you wish to give it a few more days then that is up to you but you need to keep an eye out for bullying, ensuring the new girls aren’t becoming subdued and are getting their share of food.

It might be a space issue, but again it may just be buffy being top pig, but you need to be careful with suddenly enlarging a cage as if can set of territory disputes. The recommended for three pigs is a 2x5 c&c/6ft x 2ft, so obviously for four you need more than that

Hi! I you want to separate for a couple of days and then try a re-introduction, you have to always go through a formal bonding session on neutral ground. If the bond is viable, then the ensuing dominance period in which the hierarchy is re-established should be fairly short and on the milder side. If the bond is not working, then face-offs and tensions will be high pretty much from the word go. In this case, it is not worth persisting as your sows have obviously made up their mind and won't be changing them for the next few years or so if they have really taken a dislike.

Please take the time to read through these guides here. The bonding guide will take you through the behaviours and dynamics that are appropriate (or not) for each phase of the bonding process, including the post-bonding dominance phase.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Bonds In Trouble
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

 

[vmorin918]

I think you're right we have reached the point where Buffy just does not play well with others (other than her own daughter) so we have a 3x4 c&c cage, and a midwest cage on hand. Any suggestions on how to split them up? We don't have room in our apartment for a second c&c cage unfortunately. We could probably fit the midwest cage on top of our dresser in our bedroom.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Midwest cages are often on the small side (around 120cm if i remember correctly) and while they do meet the minimum requirement, it is only the minimum requirement. so that may just be something to bear in mind.
You can stack c&c cages so that may be an option with some reconfiguration.

 

[piggieminder]

If Buffy and her daughter go together would all the others get on? If they do I would have Buffy and daughter in mid west cage and the others in the C&C. Could you have the two cages in an arrangement something like this? This would save having to have a cage in the bedroom. You do end up with one table leg in the cage, I had my fleece in two pieces to fit round it.

 

[Wiebke]

If Buffy and her daughter go together would all the others get on? If they do I would have Buffy and daughter in mid west cage and the others in the C&C. Could you have the two cages in an arrangement something like this? This would save having to have a cage in the bedroom. You do end up with one table leg in the cage, I had my fleece in two pieces to fit round it. View attachment 125757

It is highly likely that the others will get on. If possible, make sure that all piggies have a companion they are OK with.

 

[vmorin918]

Oh that is a good idea! The two new pigs are bonded, so they would be fine together. I was thinking, if we just split the c&c cage in half, each pair could have a 2x3 and I could rotate the loft so each of them would have a 1x3 loft. If they can't get along with just a grid divider, we can add a higher coroplast wall.

 

[Wiebke]

Oh that is a good idea! The two new pigs are bonded, so they would be fine together. I was thinking, if we just split the c&c cage in half, each pair could have a 2x3 and I could rotate the loft so each of them would have a 1x3 loft. If they can't get along with just a grid divider, we can add a higher coroplast wall.

They should be OK with a grid divider once they have each got their own territory.

 

[vmorin918]

Yes, and while I know a 2x3 isn't ideal (2x4 would be better for 2 pigs) it's the best we can do for now. There is still the giant play pen area on the floor for exercise and they can have their own separate time slots LOL

 

[Merab]

Sorry the bonding hasn't worked out for you.
You did everything right but if the piggies won't cooperate there's nothing you can do.
At least you will have 2 happy pairs.

 

[vmorin918]

Sorry the bonding hasn't worked out for you.
You did everything right but if the piggies won't cooperate there's nothing you can do.
At least you will have 2 happy pairs.

Aw, thank you! Funny thing is, in the play pen everyone is perfectly fine! No squabbles, no nothing (they've been in there since yesterday morning hahaha)! This morning everyone was doing zoomies with each other, even Buffy (the aggressor) was doing popcorns! SO... it makes us think that it's the cage, and that Buffy was being overly territorial. That's the only thing that is different (the play pen is bigger, more like a 2x7). So we are going to change our current 3x4 cage, into a 3x6. (we're gonna put some furniture into storage to make space lol) If they still can't get along in a "new to everyone" cage, then at least each pair would have a 3x3 cage which I feel better about.

 

[Ellie-May]

Aw, thank you! Funny thing is, in the play pen everyone is perfectly fine! No squabbles, no nothing (they've been in there since yesterday morning hahaha)! This morning everyone was doing zoomies with each other, even Buffy (the aggressor) was doing popcorns! SO... it makes us think that it's the cage, and that Buffy was being overly territorial. That's the only thing that is different (the play pen is bigger, more like a 2x7). So we are going to change our current 3x4 cage, into a 3x6. (we're gonna put some furniture into storage to make space lol) If they still can't get along in a "new to everyone" cage, then at least each pair would have a 3x3 cage which I feel better about.

Couldn’t you just create the play pen in to their permenant home?

 

[vmorin918]

That's the idea of expanding the existing cage. The play pen is currently on the floor in the middle of our living room, it's sort of in the way, and doesn't leave a lot of room to walk around. Having it take up 99% of the extra space in our living room means there's no room for my step-daughter to play when she's here too.

 

[Ellie-May]

That's the idea of expanding the existing cage. The play pen is currently on the floor in the middle of our living room, it's sort of in the way, and doesn't leave a lot of room to walk around. Having it take up 99% of the extra space in our living room means there's no room for my step-daughter to play when she's here too.

I understand what you’re saying. Another idea would maybe get rid of the cage and use the play pen?

 

[Wiebke]

Aw, thank you! Funny thing is, in the play pen everyone is perfectly fine! No squabbles, no nothing (they've been in there since yesterday morning hahaha)! This morning everyone was doing zoomies with each other, even Buffy (the aggressor) was doing popcorns! SO... it makes us think that it's the cage, and that Buffy was being overly territorial. That's the only thing that is different (the play pen is bigger, more like a 2x7). So we are going to change our current 3x4 cage, into a 3x6. (we're gonna put some furniture into storage to make space lol) If they still can't get along in a "new to everyone" cage, then at least each pair would have a 3x3 cage which I feel better about.

It sounds very hopeful that they will get along in a cage that feels like neutral territory to both parties.

 

[vmorin918]

I understand what you’re saying. Another idea would maybe get rid of the cage and use the play pen?

I see where you're coming from, but that's why we are going to change the cage size, to be similar to the play pen. To be honest, with the holidays coming here in the US, I kind of need my living room back LOL The cage will be up off the floor so there's storage underneath, so this should work better all around.

 

[Ellie-May]

I see where you're coming from, but that's why we are going to change the cage size, to be similar to the play pen. To be honest, with the holidays coming here in the US, I kind of need my living room back LOL The cage will be up off the floor so there's storage underneath, so this should work better all around.

That sounds like a good idea. Definitely try that! My living room is pretty much a miniature farm at the moment lol

 

[vmorin918]

That sounds like a good idea. Definitely try that! My living room is pretty much a miniature farm at the moment lol

I love these pigs, but mama needs some space for yoga LMAO

 

[Merab]

Hope the reorganisation works for all - human and piggy

 

[jopop]

This is a really useful thread to read. My more dominant girl would not accept any of the adult sows at the rescue centre the other week so we came home with nobody

 

[vmorin918]

This is a really useful thread to read. My more dominant girl would not accept any of the adult sows at the rescue centre the other week so we came home with nobody

I'm glad you found it useful! It's sad when everyone can't just get along, but I can't blame them. I was telling my husband this morning, that imagine if all of a sudden 2 people showed up at our apartment and were like "hey we live here now with you" I'd be pretty out of sorts and probably a Bi--- too! LOL So we will finish the cage up probably Friday, and they'll just be great neighbors (Next time we'll know to just adopt them all at once HAHAHA!)

 

[Ellie-May]

I'm glad you found it useful! It's sad when everyone can't just get along, but I can't blame them. I was telling my husband this morning, that imagine if all of a sudden 2 people showed up at our apartment and were like "hey we live here now with you" I'd be pretty out of sorts and probably a Bi--- too! LOL So we will finish the cage up probably Friday, and they'll just be great neighbors (Next time we'll know to just adopt them all at once HAHAHA!)

 

[vmorin918]

Hope the reorganisation works for all - human and piggy

I just had this thought, if they are in a divided cage, and are fine, and were fine the entire time they all were in the play pen, would it be okay to do group floor time in the play pen? Or is that too much like "re-introducing"?

 

[Piggies&buns]

So do you mean, they live separately but play together? Then no, each meeting is a bonding session to them so it will be stressful to be reintroduced and then separated over and over again. If they can’t live together permanently, then they can’t have floor time together

 

[vmorin918]

Yes, They'll be in a 3x6 cage, but there will be grids in the middle dividing them.

 

[Piggies&buns]

That is as much interaction as they can have- through the bars. If they live separately then don’t let them out on floor time together

 

[vmorin918]

Okay great! Thank you all!

 

[vmorin918]

That is as much interaction as they can have- through the bars. If they live separately then don’t let them out on floor time together

Should I have a 6inch coroplast wall along the divider? or wait and see how they do if need be add one after?

 

[vmorin918]

**FINAL UPDATE**

We finally got the cage finished, and it seems like everyone is happy! The 2 new girls still love to burrow under the fleece, so we will order a couple fleece tunnels to see if that helps for now. Here are some photos! The 2 new girls are on the left (Luna and Rosie)... and it’s a holiday here in the states so everyone’s been lounging and napping most of the day (that’s Buffy the culprit napping... she’s so cute lol)