Bullying? - new bond

[Little Ones]

Edit: Sorry that this is so long! I guess this is quite a complex situation!

We adopted BB (1 year 2 months old) 2 and a half weeks ago now to go with Little (6 years old) after he lost his second companion. It’s worth noting that Little is completely blind and has no bottom incisors.
I was told that Little was the dominant pig in this new bond, and he has been in his other 2 bonds.
BB was labelled a strange case by the rescue as he was the most petrified guinea pig they’d ever had. He came in with another boar but had to be separated as BB, in his fear, would jump on top of the other. This resulted in their bond being unstable and the other piggy getting hurt. He really was absolutely terrified, especially of people. They had never seen him eat, he would constantly hide. He would only come out to eat at night time.
In the 2+ weeks we’ve had BB, he’s come out of his shell massively. He is okay with people but isn’t fond of our legs - so he doesn’t like when people walk. In the cage, BB prefers to stay in a 1x2 section where he has a bed, hay and also access to water right beside it. He’ll explore the whole cage at night time though I’ve noticed. Sometimes he’ll have a brief walk around the rest of the cage but not often and when he does, he constantly rumble struts whether he’s by Little or not. This means that Little has full access to the cage without having to worry about if BB is by him. That is until night time where I can be awoken by squabbles over the hideys (even the ones that have two exits), it is usually Little who shrieks. During the day time, when Little is drinking (out of either water bottle), BB will sometimes go over to him and nudge him for no reason which bothers Little.
During floor time it is a completely different story. BB is completely comfortable and content during floortime. He enjoys it and isn’t scared at all. As soon as both boys are out, BB will sprint towards Little. Little looks like he’s running for his life whilst BB chases him at top speed. This can go on for a couple of minutes. When it stops, BB will go towards Little’s butt and nudge him until Little moves forward and at which point BB will begin the chase again. Today was particularly awful. One of the chases resulted in Little running and hitting his face quite loudly on the side of the cage. It seemed like it hurt him, but he just didn’t see the cage was there. He really gets quite panicked when BB goes for him. BB also mounted him at one point. I’ve never seen this behaviour before but I know it is said to be normal. However, Little is very bony and frail - weighs usually around 1100 whereas BB is close to 1500. Little was shrieking really loudly too. After that a lot of chinning began and nips to each other’s face. I was half convinced that if Little had his bottom teeth, he would’ve really gone for BB and drawn blood. I thought BB would stop now that Little had properly told him off, but as soon as Little walked to go eat some hay, BB chased him again. He is just relentless. Little will run over to me and sit by me for safety. He is also usually very happy and active during floor time but will spend most of the time now sat still beside me. There were several instances where Little was trying to eat hay and BB would stop him with dominance behaviours.
When I put them in the cage again after, BB would start chasing Little again in the cage - this also happened yesterday. After maybe a minute, BB would stop and go back to his usual spot. Little just seems really scared now, even in his cage. He’s very jumpy and scared to go in any hideys in case BB starts with any dominance. Little is very happy to be pet and picked up no matter what, but even when I announce myself to him and then touch him, he starts making scared noises as though he thinks I could be BB.
I just don’t know what to do. When I first got BB, they were so sweet together. When BB was terrified, Little would look after him and sit by him to protect him. But now that BB is coming out of his shell, things are getting complicated.
I’m not sure if this is all because BB is on the younger side, Little has special needs so is at a disadvantage, because the bond is new or because the bond will not work.
Simon has treated Little in the past and going by Simon’s estimations, Little may only have months left. I know that this bond may rectify itself in a couple of months but the last thing I was is for Little to be unhappy and scared in what could be his last 4/5ish months alive.
Is it worth persisting and seeing what happens, or is a split the right thing to do?
Any advice would be very much appreciated!

 

[Free Ranger]

My first two pigs were bonded boars... until one got ill. I'd never seen any dominance behaviour from Harvey (presumably they'd had that debate years ago!) but when he became physically impaired Casper saw his chance and we saw a whole different side to him. I split them... I had a C&C at the time and things settled. They were happy neighbours - no bar chewing - I put the food bowls together so they could eat at the same time. Harvey gradually declined - it was a shame but I couldn't let Casper keep going at him because Harvey was blind on one side and his balance was increasingly bad so even a nudge and he went straight over!

It was hard not to turn against Casper because he appeared to be really mean but I expect it was just evolution... perhaps a weak alpha pig threatens the survival of the herd. Our pigs are not wild but they must have some of that instinct left. Harvey was so gentle and vulnerable - and possibly quite baffled as to what was happening. Like Harvey, lovely Little is not going to 'recover' and I think my priority would be to protect him in his final months as he can't protect himself. Now this might be wrong in piggy terms, I don't know, but it's what I could personally live with... I would be thinking about the split because if BB is starting to dominate the cage now there is nowhere for Little to hide - especially at night and you're going to be lying there listening to him squeal. It's unfortunate, but I'm sure he'd rather have his own safe-space and a pig-next-door to interact with than be either alone with no pig or hunted in the dark when he's trying to have a kip!

Little's reaction when you approach him yourself is letting you know he is unsettled. Now whether you would go so far as to say, "He's telling me he's unhappy" or just "He's becoming tense whenever he senses some change is imminent" it's kind of the same thing. I do feel for you... snuggling would have been nice.

 

[Little Ones]

My first two pigs were bonded boars... until one got ill. I'd never seen any dominance behaviour from Harvey (presumably they'd had that debate years ago!) but when he became physically impaired Casper saw his chance and we saw a whole different side to him. I split them... I had a C&C at the time and things settled. They were happy neighbours - no bar chewing - I put the food bowls together so they could eat at the same time. Harvey gradually declined - it was a shame but I couldn't let Casper keep going at him because Harvey was blind on one side and his balance was increasingly bad so even a nudge and he went straight over!

It was hard not to turn against Casper because he appeared to be really mean but I expect it was just evolution... perhaps a weak alpha pig threatens the survival of the herd. Our pigs are not wild but they must have some of that instinct left. Harvey was so gentle and vulnerable - and possibly quite baffled as to what was happening. Like Harvey, lovely Little is not going to 'recover' and I think my priority would be to protect him in his final months as he can't protect himself. Now this might be wrong in piggy terms, I don't know, but it's what I could personally live with... I would be thinking about the split because if BB is starting to dominate the cage now there is nowhere for Little to hide - especially at night and you're going to be lying there listening to him squeal. It's unfortunate, but I'm sure he'd rather have his own safe-space and a pig-next-door to interact with than be either alone with no pig or hunted in the dark when he's trying to have a kip!

Little's reaction when you approach him yourself is letting you know he is unsettled. Now whether you would go so far as to say, "He's telling me he's unhappy" or just "He's becoming tense whenever he senses some change is imminent" it's kind of the same thing. I do feel for you... snuggling would have been nice.

I experienced something similar when Little got really ill earlier this year, his then cage mate showed a little more dominance to try and take lead which Little allowed. But once he got better things went back to normal. This dominance from BB is excessive though. I really can’t tell if it’s temporary or because he’s finally not scared so can be himself and it turns out he’s just a dominant piggy — overly dominant at that. Little was the same when he was younger, but hasn’t been like that since he was 3 at the earliest.
I’m just so worried about Little but don’t want to split too early. I suppose I could divide the cage temporarily but i wouldn’t know how BB was feeling about the split as he stays in one spot anyway. When he gets scared by something, he still runs to Little for safety so I’d be taking that away from him. It’s just a hard situation. I'm worried that having interaction through the bars won’t suffice for Little as he literally can’t even see so I’m not sure if it would even count. I want to do right by both of them but it’s just a hard situation! And one I didn’t think I’d ever have to deal with at that!

 

[Free Ranger]

You tried so hard to do the right thing going all that way to the rescue for him too. Perhaps other members can advise about temporary splitting at night?

When Daisy got very old she was disturbed in the night by Ivy - who was always the most nocturnal but in the end it was probably deliberate 'bumping' the sleeping old lady. Daisy used to make a quite specific noise (like a sad R2-D2!) and it only happened at night so in the end I started to put Daisy into her own bit and block the door off. She was pretty chilled about the whole thing, George wasn't too worried as he knew what bedtime was and the rest of the routine was the same, Ivy was a bit naffed off and tested the bars the first night but in the morning everyone was fine. I don't know if it would be different with boars...? We all need our sleep though.

 

[Little Ones]

You tried so hard to do the right thing going all that way to the rescue for him too. Perhaps other members can advise about temporary splitting at night?

When Daisy got very old she was disturbed in the night by Ivy - who was always the most nocturnal but in the end it was probably deliberate 'bumping' the sleeping old lady. Daisy used to make a quite specific noise (like a sad R2-D2!) and it only happened at night so in the end I started to put Daisy into her own bit and block the door off. She was pretty chilled about the whole thing, George wasn't too worried as he knew what bedtime was and the rest of the routine was the same, Ivy was a bit naffed off and tested the bars the first night but in the morning everyone was fine. I don't know if it would be different with boars...? We all need our sleep though.

Perhaps. With the dominance being so strong, I’m worried that might make it worse. I think I’m not giving enough credit to Little here, but I worry that if the divider is an on/off thing he may not understand and walk straight into it.
Also, looked at some stuff on dominance and BB wee squirted at Little earlier - didn’t realise that was a thing but apparently it’s a warning sign leading up to aggression. I noticed he’d done it and just thought it was odd rather than anything significant.
Think we’re going to try a divider tomorrow and see what happens. I’m gutted by it all. We’ve been discussing over our options and there aren’t many.
Either they can live side by side permanently which might not be beneficial for Little and could be detrimental to BB’s growth in confidence and trust.
Or we can find them each new buddies. This is where it gets complicated. When all this is over and Little passes on, we only want 1 cage and not 2. The plan once Little passes is for BB to go with 2 girls after being neutered. This would mean the two new buddies would have to both be girls (otherwise I’ll be left with either 3 boars or 2 boars and 1 girl). Little now is too old to be neutered so he’d have to go with a spayed girl. We only have space for 2 cages in the same room meaning that then BB would have to also go with a spayed girl due to Little not being neutered. So we’d be looking at 2 spayed sows which are hard to find. Then we’d have to hope that BB and the two sows would live happily ever after together when Little eventually passes. We are able to get to Simon for him to do the spays if we managed to get 2 girls that weren’t but I worry the price would be absolutely insane and also he may not agree to it — but we are in a very complicated situation.
As you can see, there’s been lots to think about!

 

[Piggies&buns]

If you are to temporarily split a cage, it can only be done once or twice to assess the bond - split too often and you can destabilise the bond. With boars, they either need to be together or not - separating him just at night and then putting them back together in the day could just make things worse. If he is overly dominant, then every morning they had access to each other again he is likely to go overboard.
Sight isn’t their strongest sense, so being able to hear and smell is also an important form of interaction

Bonds In Trouble

 

[Free Ranger]

I don't have C&C now: although I did with Casper and Harvey and putting a grid barrier between just settled them down. They got plenty of interaction though the grid - they could smell and feel each other through the bars and their behaviour was the same as being in 'together'... Casper didn't try to bite Harvs through the gaps which he could have done, and they sometimes sat nose to nose. I didn't feel the need to add any more pigs into the mix until after Harvey passed - then we went for the neuter-and-wait option.

I think if you get any sows at all there will be boar ructions as BB will want every sow he can smell! Would it be cheaper to try and set up a temporary C&C replacement cage? Or might you be able to 'borrow' a cage (do rescues get offered the cages with the guinea-pigs? Or rabbits?!). Or try a local social media plea for an old cage - somebody will have something bunged in the garage.

I can also tell you sows are very thin on the ground at the minute - George is still waiting (though we had an encouraging e-mail yesterday). We can't even go for 'new' babies as anything that moves quickly seems to freak him out. Good luck for today

 

[Little Ones]

If you are to temporarily split a cage, it can only be done once or twice to assess the bond - split too often and you can destabilise the bond. With boars, they either need to be together or not - separating him just at night and then putting them back together in the day could just make things worse. If he is overly dominant, then every morning they had access to each other again he is likely to go overboard.
Sight isn’t their strongest sense, so being able to hear and smell is also an important form of interaction

Bonds In Trouble

That’s what I had thought.
I had read on the guides about bullying and separating temporarily to see if the bullied pigs then perks up indicating the need for a permanent split. I’m reluctant to do it though as I really want them to work out together.
Do you think what’s going on warrants a temporary split? I don’t know if I’m overreacting to what’s going on or if it’s in their best interest to consider other options.

 

[Little Ones]

I don't have C&C now: although I did with Casper and Harvey and putting a grid barrier between just settled them down. They got plenty of interaction though the grid - they could smell and feel each other through the bars and their behaviour was the same as being in 'together'... Casper didn't try to bite Harvs through the gaps which he could have done, and they sometimes sat nose to nose. I didn't feel the need to add any more pigs into the mix until after Harvey passed - then we went for the neuter-and-wait option.

I think if you get any sows at all there will be boar ructions as BB will want every sow he can smell! Would it be cheaper to try and set up a temporary C&C replacement cage? Or might you be able to 'borrow' a cage (do rescues get offered the cages with the guinea-pigs? Or rabbits?!). Or try a local social media plea for an old cage - somebody will have something bunged in the garage.

I can also tell you sows are very thin on the ground at the minute - George is still waiting (though we had an encouraging e-mail yesterday). We can't even go for 'new' babies as anything that moves quickly seems to freak him out. Good luck for today

I don’t know much about sows, but I was under the impression you’re able to keep sows and boars in the same room without problems if the sows are spayed (obvs if boys are neutered but not an option)?
We can make a second c&c cage if it comes to it, but they’re only able to go in the same room hence why it seemed like the only possibility we have were 2 spayed sows if separation happened. Especially because when all is said and done, the second cage would be temporary - we can make room for it but it’s still an inconvenience to our other furniture. I know both boys can live side by side alone and be alright but nothing tops direct in cage interaction and I just want both of them - Little especially - to live the happiest life they can.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I don’t know much about sows, but I was under the impression you’re able to keep sows and boars in the same room without problems if the sows are spayed (obvs if boys are neutered but not an option)?
We can make a second c&c cage if it comes to it, but they’re only able to go in the same room hence why it seemed like the only possibility we have were 2 spayed sows if separation happened. Especially because when all is said and done, the second cage would be temporary - we can make room for it but it’s still an inconvenience to our other furniture. I know both boys can live side by side alone and be alright but nothing tops direct in cage interaction and I just want both of them - Little especially - to live the happiest life they can.

you can’t keep sows in the same room as bonded boars as smelling sows can cause the boys to fight with each other And break their bond. If you absolutely must have sows in the same room, then they need to be in stacked cages with the sows at the bottom and the bonded boars at the top. That way, the smell of sows won’t fall onto the boars.
neutering boars doesn’t make any difference to their behaviour with each other

 

[Piggies&buns]

That’s what I had thought.
I had read on the guides about bullying and separating temporarily to see if the bullied pigs then perks up indicating the need for a permanent split. I’m reluctant to do it though as I really want them to work out together.
Do you think what’s going on warrants a temporary split? I don’t know if I’m overreacting to what’s going on or if it’s in their best interest to consider other options.

i understand the reluctance but if they won’t work out then it’s not going to make a difference how long you leave them together as their bond won’t suddenly work if they don’t want it I’m overreacting to what’s going on or if it’s in their best interest to consider other options.

if you are worried there is a issue with their bond then testing it via temporary separation is the only way to really know for sure

 

[Little Ones]

you can’t keep sows in the same room as bonded boars as smelling sows can cause the boys to fight with each other And break their bond. If you absolutely must have sows in the same room, then they need to be in stacked cages with the sows at the bottom and the bonded boars at the top. That way, the smell of sows won’t fall onto the boars.
neutering boars doesn’t make any difference to their behaviour with each other

Sorry, think you misunderstood!
I’m talking about options for if a permanent separation with the boars is needed. And then finding sows for each of the boys.
I wrote this in a reply above, hopefully you get what I’m meaning lol:

Or we can find them each new buddies. This is where it gets complicated. When all this is over and Little passes on, we only want 1 cage and not 2. The plan once Little passes is for BB to go with 2 girls after being neutered. This would mean the two new buddies would have to both be girls (otherwise I’ll be left with either 3 boars or 2 boars and 1 girl). Little now is too old to be neutered so he’d have to go with a spayed girl. We only have space for 2 cages in the same room meaning that then BB would have to also go with a spayed girl due to Little not being neutered. So we’d be looking at 2 spayed sows which are hard to find. Then we’d have to hope that BB and the two sows would live happily ever after together when Little eventually passes.

 

[Little Ones]

i understand the reluctance but if they won’t work out then it’s not going to make a difference how long you leave them together as their bond won’t suddenly work if they don’t want it I’m overreacting to what’s going on or if it’s in their best interest to consider other options.

if you are worried there is a issue with their bond then testing it via temporary separation is the only way to really know for sure

I know. I’m just finding it hard to tell. It’s been a really long time since I experienced relentless dominance behaviours like this and so I feel like I have no idea what’s normal and what isn’t. If they need separating then of course I will as I just want both to be happy, but I only want to do it if it’s needed but I’m just struggling to tell if it is needed or not currently. I don’t want to separate too early and then actually mess things up between them.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sorry, think you misunderstood!
I’m talking about options for if a permanent separation with the boars is needed. And then finding sows for each of the boys.
I wrote this in a reply above, hopefully you get what I’m meaning lol:

ah ok!

if they are separated, then yes little would need to be with a spayed sow (if you can find one). Why would bb need to be with a spayed sow though? You could separate him from little and immediately have him neutered. He can then live alongside either little (Snd his wife if he had one by then) for his six week wait, he can then be bonded with an unspayed sow (easier to find).

When little then passes, you can attempt to bond his wife with bb and his wife. However, this is where there is the potential for problems if bb and his wife don’t want a new friend (it can be hard bonding a single with a bonded pair).

 

[Little Ones]

ah ok!

if they are separated, then yes little would need to be with a spayed sow (if you can find one). Why would bb need to be with a spayed sow though? You could separate him from little and immediately have him neutered. He can then live alongside either little (Snd his wife if he had one by then) for his six week wait, he can then be bonded with an unspayed sow (easier to find).

When little then passes, you can attempt to bond his wife with bb and his wife. However, this is where there is the potential for problems if bb and his wife don’t want a new friend (it can be hard bonding a single with a bonded pair).

I don’t know much about sows, as I’ve only had boars so I may be wrong but we are only able to have two cages in the same room. The rooms in our house are only small, but if we shift some furniture about we can make room. My thinking was that if BB is neutered and with a sow who isn’t spayed in the same room as Little who isn’t neutered with his spayed sow then he’d want to go after BB’s wife. Or would that not matter as he isn’t paired with a boar?
If it doesn’t matter, maybe if we split, it would be worth neutering BB and getting a girl for him but leaving Little to have bar interaction and only find a spayed sow for him if we think it’s needed?

I’m so sad that it’s even come to thinking about options it’s a shame but it seems like BB was a dominant piggy in disguise during the bonding. He was just terrified and had been on himself a couple of months that I think he was happy to have anything and now that he’s got some confidence he wants to change the dynamic.

 

[Free Ranger]

When you went to the rescue did you say they had 3 boars at that time? I wonder... did they try Little with any other boars or was it just BB because that seemed to work out so well. I don't want to suggest anything that might cause more issues but would Little want to meet any more boars?

It's so hard when you have lots of things to consider but would it help to think about what is most important to you and work on that priority (which obviously might be different to someone else's in this situation!) So if you really want Little to have a cage-mate in with him and spayed sows aren't turning up....

At best you will then eventually be back to 2 boars and it's just whether they can adapt to being in together. At worst you might have 3 boars not getting on though...

I'm not being very useful here, I'm sorry

 

[Little Ones]

When you went to the rescue did you say they had 3 boars at that time? I wonder... did they try Little with any other boars or was it just BB because that seemed to work out so well. I don't want to suggest anything that might cause more issues but would Little want to meet any more boars?

It's so hard when you have lots of things to consider but would it help to think about what is most important to you and work on that priority (which obviously might be different to someone else's in this situation!) So if you really want Little to have a cage-mate in with him and spayed sows aren't turning up....

At best you will then eventually be back to 2 boars and it's just whether they can adapt to being in together. At worst you might have 3 boars not getting on though...

I'm not being very useful here, I'm sorry

There were 3 boars available. BB, a 6 month old, and a skinny pig. We collectively agreed the 6 month old would be too young and we didn’t feel comfortable keeping a skinny pig in case we couldn’t maintain the right temperature for him. We would’ve loved a skinny pig, but felt our home might not be the most appropriate for him.
BB was the only suitable boar I had found over about 6/7 rescues. The rest of the rescues didn’t have any at all or weren’t open for bondings.
I’m only happy to have two boars right now. The end goal is to only keep one cage, like we have now. Adopting more boars would mean I’d have to have a second cage permanently. If Little gets a boar friend and BB gets a boar friend then I’m left with 3 boars when Little passes. If Little gets a boar friend and BB gets a sow friend then I’m left with 2 boars 1 sow when Little passes. The only combination that would work is girls. I’m happy to get any girls spayed if Simon is also comfortable doing it.
The main thing I need to figure out I think is whether to separate or not. Things are usually not too bad in the cage because BB is still a bit nervous to walk around during the day time. Not sure completely how things are at nighttime. I’m also not sure what will happen when BB gets more comfortable in the cage. One thing I do know, is that BB is comfortable and confident during floortime and we have constant issues between them. The longest I have them out is 2 hours and it can be pretty much constant.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I don’t know much about sows, as I’ve only had boars so I may be wrong but we are only able to have two cages in the same room. The rooms in our house are only small, but if we shift some furniture about we can make room. My thinking was that if BB is neutered and with a sow who isn’t spayed in the same room as Little who isn’t neutered with his spayed sow then he’d want to go after BB’s wife. Or would that not matter as he isn’t paired with a boar?
If it doesn’t matter, maybe if we split, it would be worth neutering BB and getting a girl for him but leaving Little to have bar interaction and only find a spayed sow for him if we think it’s needed?

I’m so sad that it’s even come to thinking about options it’s a shame but it seems like BB was a dominant piggy in disguise during the bonding. He was just terrified and had been on himself a couple of months that I think he was happy to have anything and now that he’s got some confidence he wants to change the dynamic.

No it doesn’t matter. The point is that as long as the sow cannot get pregnant (whether that be due to her being spayed or him being neutered) then it’s fine.
in the event that little and bb’s relationship is over, i would definitely neuter bb and bond him with a sow.
little can remain with through the bar interaction as he won’t get lonely and you could try him with a spayed sow if one then came up.

 

[Little Ones]

No it doesn’t matter. The point is that as long as the sow cannot get pregnant (whether that be due to her being spayed or him being neutered) then it’s fine.
in the event that little and bb’s relationship is over, i would definitely neuter bb and bond him with a sow.
little can remain with through the bar interaction as he won’t get lonely and you could try him with a spayed sow if one then came up.

Right okay, thank you! I think that makes the most sense. The cages would be side by side with an open top, would it still be okay to house them like that if Little isn’t neutered and the sow isn’t spayed? The last thing we want is an accidental pregnancy!
Hopefully Little and BB’s bond can sort itself it over the next few days. I’m thinking perhaps doing a split Saturday if they’re still squabbling to see if there’s an improvement as they will have been together 3 weeks then. Floor time today hasn’t been as bad. A couple of chases but Little is just sitting still out of the way so that he isn’t messed with - usually he loves to walk around and investigate everything. I’m guessing this means that BB is the dominant piggy in the group now, or is fighting to become top pig? I just wish I could understand them the way they understand each other so that I know what to do for the best.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Right okay, thank you! I think that makes the most sense. The cages would be side by side with an open top, would it still be okay to house them like that if Little isn’t neutered and the sow isn’t spayed? The last thing we want is an accidental pregnancy!
Hopefully Little and BB’s bond can sort itself it over the next few days. I’m thinking perhaps doing a split Saturday if they’re still squabbling to see if there’s an improvement as they will have been together 3 weeks then. Floor time today hasn’t been as bad. A couple of chases but Little is just sitting still out of the way so that he isn’t messed with - usually he loves to walk around and investigate everything. I’m guessing this means that BB is the dominant piggy in the group now, or is fighting to become top pig? I just wish I could understand them the way they understand each other so that I know what to do for the best.

do you have C&c cages? If so, I would make the grids between the cages two grids high rather than one, just to be on the safe side
Is Little behaving normally otherwise, does he seem perky and happy? Its tricky with him being blind and I don’t have experience of blind piggies and how they interact with their friends but if Little spends more and more time trying to stay out of the way then I’d be a little wary of that kind of behaviour.

 

[Little Ones]

do you have C&c cages? If so, I would make the grids between the cages two grids high rather than one, just to be on the safe side
Is Little behaving normally otherwise, does he seem perky and happy? Its tricky with him being blind and I don’t have experience of blind piggies and how they interact with their friends but if Little spends more and more time trying to stay out of the way then I’d be a little wary of that kind of behaviour.

We do have a c&c, the cage is just below a window so going higher would block all the light. I could close the top of the cage by 2x2 on the side where the cages would meet though.
Little was with Peanut when he went blind, the two of them had the best bond out all 3 of Little’s other companions. Since Little is blind, there are times where he can get jumpy. He’d usually be fine but if he walked into a wall or went into a hidey without realising Peanut was in there then he’d get more wary and jumpier for a couple of days. Their interaction is usually exactly the same as normal piggies. I only saw mild dominance between Little and Peanut. Peanut would love to share the pellet bowl with Little, Little would headbutt him which Peanut would ignore and Little wouldn’t care to properly tell him off. That was generally the furthest it would ever go dominance wise. They’d sleep beside each other and eat beside each other.
At the minute, Little prefers to be on the opposite side of the cage to BB. He’s eating fine as Little has access to pretty much all the cage as BB doesn’t move from his favourite spot in a 1x2 section often. Sometimes he does, usually at night, but not a great deal. Little stopped using hideys - even ones with two exits because there would be dominance. He’s very wary of BB for the most part. Little also doesn’t mind being picked up by us, but will squeal a little now like he thinks we could be BB. He isn’t behaving like his normal, happy self but definitely seems cautious - perhaps even afraid - of BB. The cage is just more difficult for me to say as the main dominance I see is when I put them both back in after floor time in which BB will chase Little around the cage for a couple of laps before going to his spot. But during floortime, Little is behaving very differently with him just sitting in place rather than exploring or eating.
I just can’t tell if this is BB’s hormones. Little was top pig at the initial bond so I’m not sure if BB is actually a really dominant piggy but was too scared to show it before. Or I can’t tell if this is just what can happen during their adjustment period after bonding.

 

[Little Ones]

Also: I’ve also noticed that when BB gets scared, he will completely submit to Little. Little is able to head butt him or tell BB not to come so close and BB will be completely submissive. It’s when BB is feeling confident that we are seeing issues

 

[T-Rex]

Aww, I’m sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I’m no expert but I think given Littles situation I’d be tempted to separate to make sure Littles quality of life remains good. I wouldn’t want my end of life piggy to be being bullied. But that’s just my personal opinion and I mostly wanted to comment and send love as its a tricky situation you have found yourself in.

 

[Little Ones]

Aww, I’m sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I’m no expert but I think given Littles situation I’d be tempted to separate to make sure Littles quality of life remains good. I wouldn’t want my end of life piggy to be being bullied. But that’s just my personal opinion and I mostly wanted to comment and send love as its a tricky situation you have found yourself in.

I know, I agree. BB is very similar to how Little was when he was younger but eventually he calmed down. If Little was younger and had more time left then I’d be tempted to persevere for another month or so and see if it settles. But because how long Little has left is uncertain, its worrying me.

 

[Little Ones]

Update:
We had a think and since BB hardly uses the full cage during the day, we didn’t think separating the cage to see if there’s a difference in Little would do a whole lot.
So last night we got Little out for floortime for an hour. When BB is out too, if Little moves BB will chase him so he’s just been sat still in a corner. Without BB, he was apprehensive at first but once he realised he was alone he was exploring. And by the end of the floortime, he was making a happy guinea pig noise. I had actually forgotten but when Peanut was alive, Little would make this noise whenever he moved around the cage and had done since Simon saved his life in around March/April time.
I think that sort of solidified that a permanent separation would be in Little’s best interest. Of course, we are going to temporarily separate first as of today until tomorrow. But it seems like this will be permanent and it’s such a shame.
The only time their bond works is when BB is afraid. When they were bonded, BB was a frightened piggy and he was also lonely. The rescue also only bonded for an hour. When Peanut and Little were bonded it was an 8 hour process. So maybe this also had something to do with it. But like I said, when BB is afraid the bond works but when BB is confident, it just doesn’t. He just seems to bully Little and I don’t think it’s fair.
I’m gutted that this happy ended has turned into a sad and disappointing ending.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Update:
We had a think and since BB hardly uses the full cage during the day, we didn’t think separating the cage to see if there’s a difference in Little would do a whole lot.
So last night we got Little out for floortime for an hour. When BB is out too, if Little moves BB will chase him so he’s just been sat still in a corner. Without BB, he was apprehensive at first but once he realised he was alone he was exploring. And by the end of the floortime, he was making a happy guinea pig noise. I had actually forgotten but when Peanut was alive, Little would make this noise whenever he moved around the cage and had done since Simon saved his life in around March/April time.
I think that sort of solidified that a permanent separation would be in Little’s best interest. Of course, we are going to temporarily separate first as of today until tomorrow. But it seems like this will be permanent and it’s such a shame.
The only time their bond works is when BB is afraid. When they were bonded, BB was a frightened piggy and he was also lonely. The rescue also only bonded for an hour. When Peanut and Little were bonded it was an 8 hour process. So maybe this also had something to do with it. But like I said, when BB is afraid the bond works but when BB is confident, it just doesn’t. He just seems to bully Little and I don’t think it’s fair.
I’m gutted that this happy ended has turned into a sad and disappointing ending.

it is disappointing but everybody will be happier to be apart if they really don’t like each other

 

[Little Ones]

This was them as I was attaching the divider it made me question if I’d made the right choice. BB won’t stop biting the bars, if he stops it’s because he’s very scared on his own. Little is eating his hay, doesn’t seem to mind all too much.

 

[Free Ranger]

And by the end of the floortime, he was making a happy guinea pig noise. I had actually forgotten but when Peanut was alive, Little would make this noise whenever he moved around the cage

Bless him... I think I know the noise you mean. George used to do it when the girls were alive to let them know where he was when he went for a walk around (like they cared, but good on you George). He occasionally does it to let me know where he is (if he can smell veg - otherwise he doesn't bother!) My daughter actually calls it George's 'going for a walk' noise. If Little stopped doing it because he was worried about letting BB know where he was you can kind of understand. I hope they're settling as neighbours. This was similar to my Casper/Harvey set up and honestly I didn't feel the need to add any more pigs as they got plenty of interaction through the bars and enjoyed each other. They didn't sleep together beforehand and when I put the hideys next to each other on each side of the bars they didn't seem to settle, so I moved them apart as they had been... but they did like to have the food bowls together on each side and they would come and eat together. Just see how they settle before you make any big decisions. Sometimes bar-chewing isn't so much "I want to be with you" but more "I want to check you haven't got anything hiding in there that I'd like"! This was classic Ivy and Daisy - I'm all "Aaaw Daisy, she's missing you" as she's biting the bars but in the morning when I removed them Ivy's straight in without so much as a by-your-leave and into the food bowl/water bottle/hay stash/ patrols all round the cage and then exchanges a sniff and wanders back out. They'll still be friends and Little will still be happier than he was alone.

 

[Little Ones]

Bless him... I think I know the noise you mean. George used to do it when the girls were alive to let them know where he was when he went for a walk around (like they cared, but good on you George). He occasionally does it to let me know where he is (if he can smell veg - otherwise he doesn't bother!) My daughter actually calls it George's 'going for a walk' noise. If Little stopped doing it because he was worried about letting BB know where he was you can kind of understand. I hope they're settling as neighbours. This was similar to my Casper/Harvey set up and honestly I didn't feel the need to add any more pigs as they got plenty of interaction through the bars and enjoyed each other. They didn't sleep together beforehand and when I put the hideys next to each other on each side of the bars they didn't seem to settle, so I moved them apart as they had been... but they did like to have the food bowls together on each side and they would come and eat together. Just see how they settle before you make any big decisions. Sometimes bar-chewing isn't so much "I want to be with you" but more "I want to check you haven't got anything hiding in there that I'd like"! This was classic Ivy and Daisy - I'm all "Aaaw Daisy, she's missing you" as she's biting the bars but in the morning when I removed them Ivy's straight in without so much as a by-your-leave and into the food bowl/water bottle/hay stash/ patrols all round the cage and then exchanges a sniff and wanders back out. They'll still be friends and Little will still be happier than he was alone.

Yeah, I didn’t think of that actually - that Little didn’t want to alert BB of where he was. I took it as he just wasn’t particularly happy anymore. Both are very sad theories
BB was biting nonstop. He’s a lot more scared now he’s on his own, which is also sad. But we noticed when he’d particularly get freaked out he’d bite like crazy so we switched the boys around and put BB in the side Little was in and vice versa. Since we did that, the biting stopped. He’s still biting for a second now and then but not constantly. I’m not overly concerned about Little but I feel like BB needs a friend ASAP due to his fear. When BB was afraid, Little became his safety and now he essentially has nobody. They’re interacting through the bars but it still seems to be all dominance, BB will rumblestrut and Little will squeal in submission. I’m not sure if perhaps BB has fear aggression issues? It’s just that when he’s aggressive it’s because he isn’t scared which is why I thought it wouldn’t be that but when I think about potentially pairing him with another boar, I’m suddenly really worried that he’ll behave exactly the same. Little has very clearly been submitting to him but BB doesn’t care - but I'm not sure if it’s because Little is special needs so BB feels he can take advantage. I just have no idea. I keep having this hope in the back of my mind that Little and BB miraculously work out even though I know there’s like a 0% chance of that happening but it would make everything so much easier. I also think that if BB does need to bond with a new friend, I’ll be the one who has to do it as he clearly isn’t himself in an environment where he’s scared - so anywhere other than our house

 

[Siikibam]

I’m sorry it didn’t work out. May I ask why you thought the 6 month old boar was too young to bond with Little?

Good luck finding a solution. Spayed sows are very few and far between so good luck with your search.

PS if Little is fine then that tells you everything. The bar chewing piggy isn’t the one you gauge the relationship on.