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C section or wait?

P

priyam25

New Born Pup
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Hello All,

I have a pregnant sow (who we rescued) after we took her in, we started suspecting she is pregnant. She gained near to 100-150gms since the past 30-40 days. The main problem with this pregnancy is the fact that we do not know the fetus age.IMG-20190501-WA0050.jpg

We've had 2 vet visits during her pregnancy, the first visit was an x-ray to confirm her pregnancy. During this visit the vet assured us that she is near the end of her pregnancy tenure and should pop within 7 days. After exactly 7 days we took her again as there was still no baby... This time the vet wanted us to consider c section for her (and make a decision in the next 2 days) I am very tensed regarding this, somewhere i feel that we are rushing into the c section and should atleast give her 6-7 days more to pop, at the same time i feel for the probability of the baby dying inside of her and her dying of toxemia in turn. As far as her pelvic bones are considered, they are wide about 1.5cms width.

Could you please suggest as to what are some things/points/factors i should evaluate to make the decision of proceeding with the c section. I am also attaching the xray image here as to the small chance of anyone helping me with the fetus age (Dont know if the same is possible, but here goes nothing)
 
@Wiebke is the pregnancy expert on this forum and should able to advise you. One of my piggies had a shop pregnancy and the babies just come when they come. I went from 2 piggies to 5 in 35 days!
 
I’m afraid I can’t help you as I don’t have the experience. Wiebke is not on the forum as much at the moment as she is preparing to go away. I think you have to be guided by your vet.
 
Also hoping Weibke can help you but some other questions that might help when she comes along...
How experienced with guinea pigs is your vet?
Specifically, how experienced at Caesarian is your vet? How many have they done?
How many days have you had your guinea pig? (Which will give you the absolute latest a pregnancy could have started unless she is housed with an intact male)

I have no knowledge of guinea pig birth but as somewhat of an expert in the human kind, I would say it is an art, not a science. There is no reliable way of knowing an exact time a baby will be born and estimating fetal age is very very difficult if you don’t know when conception happened, even with technology.

I hope she births soon and solves the problem herself!
 
priyam25 said:
Hello All,

I have a pregnant sow (who we rescued) after we took her in, we started suspecting she is pregnant. She gained near to 100-150gms since the past 30-40 days. The main problem with this pregnancy is the fact that we do not know the fetus age.View attachment 112556

We've had 2 vet visits during her pregnancy, the first visit was an x-ray to confirm her pregnancy. During this visit the vet assured us that she is near the end of her pregnancy tenure and should pop within 7 days. After exactly 7 days we took her again as there was still no baby... This time the vet wanted us to consider c section for her (and make a decision in the next 2 days) I am very tensed regarding this, somewhere i feel that we are rushing into the c section and should atleast give her 6-7 days more to pop, at the same time i feel for the probability of the baby dying inside of her and her dying of toxemia in turn. As far as her pelvic bones are considered, they are wide about 1.5cms width.

Could you please suggest as to what are some things/points/factors i should evaluate to make the decision of proceeding with the c section. I am also attaching the xray image here as to the small chance of anyone helping me with the fetus age (Dont know if the same is possible, but here goes nothing)
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome!

The baby is looking rather large to me as it is fully stretched out.

Pregnancies can last over 10 weeks, and without any starting point it is very difficult to say exactly how far along your girl is. We have found over the years that opened pelvic bones are just an indication that your mother is somewhere in roughly the last two weeks of a pregnancy but they are NOT by any means a sign of an imminent birth as online breeding advice suggests.
Like with natural human births, babies come when they come. Thankfully in the last 5 years, cesarians have become a much more often practised and successful surgery in guinea pigs. If your vet is feeling confident about surgery then it would be an option, especially if your baby is getting any bigger.
Here is a guide with pregnancy scans from larger litters; perhaps that can help you for comparison? https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/pregnancy-x-ray-and-ultrasound-scan-pictures.159322/

Please be careful to not overfeed as at this stage most of the nutrients are diverted towards the pups. With a single one, this means that it can grow too large for a problem-free birth.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/pregnancy-and-nursing-diet.109377/

Is your mommy still well in herself and the baby moving?
Then please take a deep breath; the risk of toxaemia in well kept guinea pigs on a hay based balanced diet with veg is extremely rare. We have seen only 1-2 cases on here in over a decade, and those have always been from outdoors piggies. The problem is much more common in breeder piggies kept on mostly cheap low grade pellet food instead of a good diet.
Pregnancy toxaemia is also very easy to cure in the early stages if you get your mommy seen as soon as she is starting to look off. ;)

I am not a nurse, so I am linking in a very experienced exotics nurse for you. @Abi_nurse
 
I agree with all the Wiebke has stated above but would add the following:
- the baby looks large but the bones don't look well calcified (formed) so not sure if the little one is at full term or not. However the human hand in the shot is taking away from picture properly to gauge a full assessment as the hand takes away much of the radiation making it not as clear. (I should add even though nothing to do with your pig that putting bare hands into an X-ray beam is unacceptable practice in the UK, not sure where you are in the world)
- I would have an ultrasound done of the fetus to check that it is alive and take some measurements. I'm pretty sure somewhere your vet could find approximate measurements for a baby piggies skull to approximate the age of it
- I agree that it can be 10 weeks to full term so may not be ready yet. However I would be on standby to need a C Section at any time of day. How old your piggie? She may do ok (though the baby does look large) they sometimes surprise us.
- if you can, feel her pelvis daily (if you feel right over her anus/vaginal opening you can feel two bits of bone either side), they stay pretty close together (about a little fingers width) until 24-48hours prior to birth when they separate to about an inch usually. When this happens be ready to either elect to do a C section or to take her in if she has difficulty?

Hope this helps somewhat.
Good luck with her.
Abi x
 
Hello,

Thank you all for your replies.

Guinea-pigGaga said:
How long have you had your sow?

Were you advised of your sow's age when you adopted her?
Click to expand...

Its been a little less than 2 months now that I've got the sow.. she was near about 6 months old when I took her in.

Tigermoth said:
Also hoping Weibke can help you but some other questions that might help when she comes along...
How experienced with guinea pigs is your vet?
Specifically, how experienced at Caesarian is your vet? How many have they done?
How many days have you had your guinea pig? (Which will give you the absolute latest a pregnancy could have started unless she is housed with an intact male)

I have no knowledge of guinea pig birth but as somewhat of an expert in the human kind, I would say it is an art, not a science. There is no reliable way of knowing an exact time a baby will be born and estimating fetal age is very very difficult if you don’t know when conception happened, even with technology.

I hope she births soon and solves the problem herself!
Click to expand...
The vet I visit is quite experienced with guinea pigs but with cesarean surguries I guess not quite as much as I would've liked. I live in India, finding a vet that looks guinea pigs is quite difficult here let alone finding someone who is expirienced in them, that being said my vet is well reputed in my locality to handle exotic pets.

Wiebke said:
Hi and welcome!

The baby is looking rather large to me as it is fully stretched out.

Pregnancies can last over 10 weeks, and without any starting point it is very difficult to say exactly how far along your girl is. We have found over the years that opened pelvic bones are just an indication that your mother is somewhere in roughly the last two weeks of a pregnancy but they are NOT by any means a sign of an imminent birth as online breeding advice suggests.
Like with natural human births, babies come when they come. Thankfully in the last 5 years, cesarians have become a much more often practised and successful surgery in guinea pigs. If your vet is feeling confident about surgery then it would be an option, especially if your baby is getting any bigger.
Here is a guide with pregnancy scans from larger litters; perhaps that can help you for comparison? https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/pregnancy-x-ray-and-ultrasound-scan-pictures.159322/

Please be careful to not overfeed as at this stage most of the nutrients are diverted towards the pups. With a single one, this means that it can grow too large for a problem-free birth.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/pregnancy-and-nursing-diet.109377/

Is your mommy still well in herself and the baby moving?
Then please take a deep breath; the risk of toxaemia in well kept guinea pigs on a hay based balanced diet with veg is extremely rare. We have seen only 1-2 cases on here in over a decade, and those have always been from outdoors piggies. The problem is much more common in breeder piggies kept on mostly cheap low grade pellet food instead of a good diet.
Pregnancy toxaemia is also very easy to cure in the early stages if you get your mommy seen as soon as she is starting to look off. ;)

I am not a nurse, so I am linking in a very experienced exotics nurse for you. @Abi_nurse
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your advice here @Wiebke. I agree, the baby does looks quite large (the xray was taken on 27th April meaning the baby wouldve also grown by now), I have also heard that the smaller the litter size the more time my piggy takes for the gestation period and i guess my piggy has only one baby inside her (this is another reason why I want to give her time, be patient). If i do wait for another 5-6 days before the csection, can my piggy be in any harm?
 
priyam25 said:
Hello,

Thank you all for your replies.



Its been a little less than 2 months now that I've got the sow.. she was near about 6 months old when I took her in.


The vet I visit is quite experienced with guinea pigs but with cesarean surguries I guess not quite as much as I would've liked. I live in India, finding a vet that looks guinea pigs is quite difficult here let alone finding someone who is expirienced in them, that being said my vet is well reputed in my locality to handle exotic pets.



Thank you so much for your advice here @Wiebke. I agree, the baby does looks quite large (the xray was taken on 27th April meaning the baby wouldve also grown by now), I have also heard that the smaller the litter size the more time my piggy takes for the gestation period and i guess my piggy has only one baby inside her (this is another reason why I want to give her time, be patient). If i do wait for another 5-6 days before the csection, can my piggy be in any harm?
Click to expand...

Hi! It depends on how advanced your baby is. As @Abi_nurse has suggested, a scan may help to judge the development and make an informed decision. With a single huge baby the risk is about even for both surgery or natural birth, sadly. All you can do, is try to give her and her pup the best of chances; that is all you can and are expected to do as a loving and caring owner finding yourself in a difficult position that is no fault of yours. In your favour is that your little mother is at least a good age for an operation.

Living in India and in a hot climate unfortunately increases the likelihood of toxaemia; but good nutrition and your alertness/prompt treatment can make a real difference!
Since we have members and enquiries from all the world, it helps us a lot to help you as efficiently as possible and tailor any advice for your climate, vet and medical brands access etc. straight away if you please added your country to your location in account details. You can access that by clicking on your username on the top bar.

Here is an extensive collection of tips for hot weather care. Thankfully it is not yet the hottest time of the year yet for you! Hot Weather Management and Heat Strokes

Please take the time to read our comprehensive pregnancy advice, if you haven't yet. You can access it by clicking on the green link here. Our diet advice is at the top. Pregnancy & Baby Care Guide's
 
Abi_nurse said:
I agree with all the Wiebke has stated above but would add the following:
- the baby looks large but the bones don't look well calcified (formed) so not sure if the little one is at full term or not. However the human hand in the shot is taking away from picture properly to gauge a full assessment as the hand takes away much of the radiation making it not as clear. (I should add even though nothing to do with your pig that putting bare hands into an X-ray beam is unacceptable practice in the UK, not sure where you are in the world)
- I would have an ultrasound done of the fetus to check that it is alive and take some measurements. I'm pretty sure somewhere your vet could find approximate measurements for a baby piggies skull to approximate the age of it
- I agree that it can be 10 weeks to full term so may not be ready yet. However I would be on standby to need a C Section at any time of day. How old your piggie? She may do ok (though the baby does look large) they sometimes surprise us.
- if you can, feel her pelvis daily (if you feel right over her anus/vaginal opening you can feel two bits of bone either side), they stay pretty close together (about a little fingers width) until 24-48hours prior to birth when they separate to about an inch usually. When this happens be ready to either elect to do a C section or to take her in if she has difficulty?

Hope this helps somewhat.
Good luck with her.
Abi x
Click to expand...
Hi Abi,

Thanks for the reply.

I too felt the unprofessionalism for the x-ray guy to have his hands in the frame... On the second visit (2 days ago), the doctor performed an ultrasound, the fetus was alive but he didn't have any insights on the fetus age and told me to wait for 2 days and come for a cesarean if she hadn't delivered by then. As I said this made me very tensed, I somewhere felt that my piggy was not ready yet but at the same moment I don't want anything to happen to the baby and the sow.

My piggy is 7-8 months old now and is currently on hay and veggies diet

I do feel her pelvis and currently, the gap seems to be of a fingers width. I will be on standby for cesarean right now and will proceed if she faces any difficulties in labor or doesn't deliver for 2 days even after the pelvis separation. I really want to nature to play its role here and not rush into things.

Wiebke said:
Hi! It depends on how advanced your baby is. As @Abi_nurse has suggested, a scan may help to judge the development and make an informed decision. With a single huge baby the risk is about even for both surgery or natural birth, sadly. All you can do, is try to give her and her pup the best of chances; that is all you can and are expected to do as a loving and caring owner finding yourself in a difficult position that is no fault of yours. In your favour is that your little mother is at least a good age for an operation.

Living in India and in a hot climate unfortunately increases the likelihood of toxaemia; but good nutrition and your alertness/prompt treatment can make a real difference!
Since we have members and enquiries from all the world, it helps us a lot to help you as efficiently as possible and tailor any advice for your climate, vet and medical brands access etc. straight away if you please added your country to your location in account details. You can access that by clicking on your username on the top bar.

Here is an extensive collection of tips for hot weather care. Thankfully it is not yet the hottest time of the year yet for you! Hot Weather Management and Heat Strokes

Please take the time to read our comprehensive pregnancy advice, if you haven't yet. You can access it by clicking on the green link here. Our diet advice is at the top. Pregnancy & Baby Care Guide's
Click to expand...

Thanks for all these wonderful and informative references!
 
priyam25 said:
Hi Abi,

Thanks for the reply.

I too felt the unprofessionalism for the x-ray guy to have his hands in the frame... On the second visit (2 days ago), the doctor performed an ultrasound, the fetus was alive but he didn't have any insights on the fetus age and told me to wait for 2 days and come for a cesarean if she hadn't delivered by then. As I said this made me very tensed, I somewhere felt that my piggy was not ready yet but at the same moment I don't want anything to happen to the baby and the sow.

My piggy is 7-8 months old now and is currently on hay and veggies diet

I do feel her pelvis and currently, the gap seems to be of a fingers width. I will be on standby for cesarean right now and will proceed if she faces any difficulties in labor or doesn't deliver for 2 days even after the pelvis separation. I really want to nature to play its role here and not rush into things.



Thanks for all these wonderful and informative references!
Click to expand...

Fingers very firmly crossed for both your baby and mother!

I am not around for the rest of this week, but other experienced members with the 'pregnancy' signature will monitor this section instead.

We have got lots of helpful, practical and interesting information on a very wide range of topics, which you can access via the guides shortcut on the top bar, by the way.

Here is our post-op care guide with further links if you need it: Tips For Post-operative Care
I hope that you won't need this link, but it contains a very useful collection of information for emergency care: Emergency and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
 
Everyone!

Kishmish (means 'Raisin' in Hindi) delivered a cute piggy all by herself this morning... I'm thankful to everyone who guided me during this tensed past week. I really want to thank everyone for their well working blessings. We are going to name the little one 'Pista'. :yahoo::yahoo:
 
How lovely. Baby piggies are the cutest! All ears and legs. Remember to check the sex of it and if male he needs to be separated from Mum at 3 weeks. If you need help post a clear picture of genitals in good light and we will do our best to advise you.
 
What a fabulous piece of news. You must be so relieved. Well done to Kishmish and welcome to the world little Pista.

Here are the links to our most helpful guides.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/pregnancy-and-nursing-diet.109377/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/after-birth-and-baby-care.109389/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/sexing-separating-baby-boars-and-rehoming-babies.109391/

Please make sure Mum has a diet rich in calcium and vitamin c while she is nursing.

When you are able to do so, please try to get a close up photo of Pista’s genitals so we can help you sex the baby. Baby boars must be removed by 3 weeks or 250g in weight.
 
priyam25 said:
Everyone!

Kishmish (means 'Raisin' in Hindi) delivered a cute piggy all by herself this morning... I'm thankful to everyone who guided me during this tensed past week. I really want to thank everyone for their well working blessings. We are going to name the little one 'Pista'. :yahoo::yahoo:
Click to expand...
Wonderful news !
 
So pleased that Kishmish delivered her baby safely all by herself! Hope they are both doing well.
We would all love to see pictures of mum and baby Pista :love:. ( PS what does baby's name mean?)
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
So pleased that Kishmish delivered her baby safely all by herself! Hope they are both doing well.
We would all love to see pictures of mum and baby Pista :love:. ( PS what does baby's name mean?)
Click to expand...
Pista is short for pistachios, Pista is also the hindi translation for pistachios.
 
Everyone.. once again.. thank you so much for the guidance, blessings and wishes you had for Kishmish and Pista..
 
Oh my gosh how perfect! How much does the baby weigh? I can't believe how perfect the baby is! Do we know if its boy or girl yet x
 
Congratulations on the safe arrival of Pista.
He / she is as gorgeous as Kishmish who is a real beauty.
Take lots of photos - they grow so quickly.
This is so exciting :yahoo:
 
What a stunning baby. And such a cute name.

You can block off escape routes for the little one by using plain cardboard strips a few inches wide to cover up the grids. Or if you have spare grids, just line up and fasten some extra ones slightly off centre to make a smaller grid opening. Oh I’m rubbbish at explaining. I will look for some photos.
 
You could also tightly peg a towel or similar across the bottom of the grids.
 
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