calcium and painful weeing

[guinea_pig_gal]

One of my piggies squeaks when he wees. From past experience and having a good vet (recommended to me by rodentologists and piggy lovers; Chris & Titch), we ruled out urinary infection as he didn't respond to Septrin. There's no blood in his urine. Xrays have shown up clear, so no stones, but he's urine can be milky, so there are calcium deposits. I tried him on potassium citrate, which didn't make any difference. I've changed the dry food to one that has a low amount of calcium; Wagg. Is there a better one somebody can recommend? I've also switched from filtered water to bottled water (posh boy!). I've cut out fresh food that is high in calcium and he has 50mg vit 'C' a day. I think there is an improvement, but would still like to try more for him. The vet I see has now referred me to an exotic specialist. Any suggestions please?

 

[Pigjes]

UTI's sometimes do not respond to Septrim / Bactrim. Another antibiotic should be tried, even a culture done to see what works. UTI's don't not always cause blood in the urine, mostly not even. Not all stones show up on an X-ray, it depends on the chemical composition. An ultrasound is usually a useful second diagnosis tool for stones like that. I would even suggest finding a different vet, sorry to say, to rule out all the possible causes.

What type of hay does he eat? Some hay has a lot of calcium, hence why I ask.

 

[Caviesgalore (EPGPR)]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear your boy has been poorly. I hate bladder issues with a vengeance, we have seen several pigs over the years with both bladder stones/sludge and stubborn UTIs and they can be an absolute pain to resolve. You have done all the usual things, which is fab, I'm just sorry they haven't resolved the problem. Is your lad a big drinker? Several of the bladder pigs we've encountered over the years have been shockers for not drinking enough. I resorted to washing their veg in filtered water before offering it to them wet, syringing extra fluids and giving melon and cucumber in the hope that would help.


Are you based in West Kent? If so, the local exotic specialist is Mark Rowland at Trinity vets in Maidstone who is fab and I may well know your vet, if it's who I think it is they are also very piggy savvy. Can I ask what sort of length of time your piggy was on septrin for? One of our girls had persistent sludge/UTI and she sometimes needed a 3 to 4 week course to clear the infection. Another good antibiotic for stubborn UTIs is Zithromax, which is what ultimately helped Smudge.

I am based in East Peckham, Kent and if i can be of any help or you just want to chat please dont hesitate to get in touch. As a new member you cant pm yet, but you can always reach me on [email protected]. Do let us know how you get on.

 

[TAN]

I have had this problem with Bumble - 6 weeks of antibiotics / septrin and baytrill did nothing - he wasn't a big drinker - exotics specialist ultrasounded him for £40 - found he had sludgy bladder and small kidney stone in left kidney - he is on Vetcare multi-modal food from vetuk (my vet uses this food for her bladder pigs - it is about a fiver a bag and is low cal and low calcium ) I have to syringe feed water to him as he hardly drinks otherwise and also syringe 2mls of fizzy water 3 x daily to try to help push out the stone from the kidney - this is whet the gas in the water will hopefully do - DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT YOUR VETS ADVICE as it could be dangerous - this is just the diagnosis for my pig - since then he is a changed pig - hardly ever cries although there is still blood present in his wee that cannot be seen by the naked eye (I bough some of those urine testing dip stick thingies off amazon that others on here use).If your vet wishes to speak to mine her name is Rachael Mowbray at Vale vets in Dursley. Good luck.

 

[Jerrybelly]

My Jerry has bladder sludge and takes a capsule of Cystaid each morning (prescribed by a vet) It lines the bladder and helps with Jerry's painful wees/poos. He is fed Oxbow Cavy Cuisine as it's Timothy based, rather than alfalfa.

 

[alpacasqueak]

Hi, newby but had problem similar the last couple of weeks with my 4 year old boar Sheepy. At first started with starvation after the loss of his friend, which I posted about and my success with getting him a wife who helped immensely.
But after a few days was losing weight again and wasn't drinking so once again worried and off for third trip to vet in 8 days. Another X-ray for something. Nothing.
Checked teeth yet again but even after my pointing out of very sore by bladder etc knocked him out to check teeth. I was desperate so thought could be a problem and the lack of food was causing the pain as was suggested by vet (lack of sleep with feeding through night and prodding to check if alive after the paranoia a death of a piggy brings!). All fine as the majority of my brain thought.
Had another x-ray. Looked normal. Other than caecum looked swollen. And bladder smaller small. Got home after he'd been in their care 24hours and there were blood spots on the blanket were snuggling on after the slightly forceful syringe feeding. Then blood in wee. Went there again. Later on discharge and blood.
Phoned the vets and was told there was nothing else they could do but carry on with the septrin, Zantac and metacam I'd requested or euthanise. A rabbit friendly vet in Rugby!
So on the phone to Cat and Rabbit Care clinic at 19.30 booking an appt for the morning! Cost me over £30 to get there, wasn't going to trust a vet that said they could do nothing! Even after spending hundreds!
Saw Kim, said my pig was very poorly and had most probably bladder sludge which the other vet should have dealt with when knocking my poorly pig out in the first place! By flushing out his bladder which had been obviously causing him pain.
He's now on Zithromax, still getting his appetite back but has gained although feel guilty pinning him down for syringe time! So although I've always tried to give him a good diet since adoption don't know if illness or diet can bring on these issues? Hoping the wonder drug works for Sheepy so maybe that could help?
Hoping he's still a happy pig. Have lots of types of hay to encourage Sheep to eat at the moment but fave is always grass! Hope he does well, know how sad they can be as going through it now!

 

[alpacasqueak]

Hi, newby but had problem similar the last couple of weeks with my 4 year old boar Sheepy. At first started with starvation after the loss of his friend, which I posted about and my success with getting him a wife who helped immensely.
But after a few days was losing weight again and wasn't drinking so once again worried and off for third trip to vet in 8 days. Another X-ray for something. Nothing.
Checked teeth yet again but even after my pointing out of very sore by bladder etc knocked him out to check teeth. I was desperate so thought could be a problem and the lack of food was causing the pain as was suggested by vet (lack of sleep with feeding through night and prodding to check if alive after the paranoia a death of a piggy brings!). All fine as the majority of my brain thought.
Had another x-ray. Looked normal. Other than caecum looked swollen. And bladder smaller small. Got home after he'd been in their care 24hours and there were blood spots on the blanket were snuggling on after the slightly forceful syringe feeding. Then blood in wee. Went there again. Later on discharge and blood.
Phoned the vets and was told there was nothing else they could do but carry on with the septrin, Zantac and metacam I'd requested or euthanise. A rabbit friendly vet in Rugby!
So on the phone to Cat and Rabbit Care clinic at 19.30 booking an appt for the morning! Cost me over £30 to get there, wasn't going to trust a vet that said they could do nothing! Even after spending hundreds!
Saw Kim, said my pig was very poorly and had most probably bladder sludge which the other vet should have dealt with when knocking my poorly pig out in the first place! By flushing out his bladder which had been obviously causing him pain.
He's now on Zithromax, still getting his appetite back but has gained although feel guilty pinning him down for syringe time! So although I've always tried to give him a good diet since adoption don't know if illness or diet can bring on these issues? Hoping the wonder drug works for Sheepy so maybe that could help?
Hoping he's still a happy pig. Have lots of types of hay to encourage Sheep to eat at the moment but fave is always grass! Hope he does well, know how sad they can be as going through it now!

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

calcium deposits in piggies

UTI's sometimes do not respond to Septrim / Bactrim. Another antibiotic should be tried, even a culture done to see what works. UTI's don't not always cause blood in the urine, mostly not even. Not all stones show up on an X-ray, it depends on the chemical composition. An ultrasound is usually a useful second diagnosis tool for stones like that. I would even suggest finding a different vet, sorry to say, to rule out all the possible causes.

What type of hay does he eat? Some hay has a lot of calcium, hence why I ask.

Thanks so much for the helpful info. I realize that there's not always blood in the urine and that not all stones show up on x-rays. I understand though that most deposits are usually 99% calcium based. The other being phosphorous. Do you agree? I did suggest an ultrasound to the vet, and she has put me in touch with another vet. What about blood tests?

The hay I buy is Meadow hay (usually Dobby Man). It's not Timothy or alfafa-based. I also give my piggies a tiny amount of Readigrass at night.

I just don't want to cause him any unnecessary pain by having his bladder flushed. As I say, there is some improvement with the adjustments I've made, but feel I could do more.

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

Hi, newby but had problem similar the last couple of weeks with my 4 year old boar Sheepy. At first started with starvation after the loss of his friend, which I posted about and my success with getting him a wife who helped immensely.
But after a few days was losing weight again and wasn't drinking so once again worried and off for third trip to vet in 8 days. Another X-ray for something. Nothing.
Checked teeth yet again but even after my pointing out of very sore by bladder etc knocked him out to check teeth. I was desperate so thought could be a problem and the lack of food was causing the pain as was suggested by vet (lack of sleep with feeding through night and prodding to check if alive after the paranoia a death of a piggy brings!). All fine as the majority of my brain thought.
Had another x-ray. Looked normal. Other than caecum looked swollen. And bladder smaller small. Got home after he'd been in their care 24hours and there were blood spots on the blanket were snuggling on after the slightly forceful syringe feeding. Then blood in wee. Went there again. Later on discharge and blood.
Phoned the vets and was told there was nothing else they could do but carry on with the septrin, Zantac and metacam I'd requested or euthanise. A rabbit friendly vet in Rugby!
So on the phone to Cat and Rabbit Care clinic at 19.30 booking an appt for the morning! Cost me over £30 to get there, wasn't going to trust a vet that said they could do nothing! Even after spending hundreds!
Saw Kim, said my pig was very poorly and had most probably bladder sludge which the other vet should have dealt with when knocking my poorly pig out in the first place! By flushing out his bladder which had been obviously causing him pain.
He's now on Zithromax, still getting his appetite back but has gained although feel guilty pinning him down for syringe time! So although I've always tried to give him a good diet since adoption don't know if illness or diet can bring on these issues? Hoping the wonder drug works for Sheepy so maybe that could help?
Hoping he's still a happy pig. Have lots of types of hay to encourage Sheep to eat at the moment but fave is always grass! Hope he does well, know how sad they can be as going through it now!

Don't know if my quick reply got posted as had to log in again! I will ask my vet about Zithromax. It's terrible when I hear vets still 'put out' piggies to teeth check! Thanks so much for the info.

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

Don't know if my last comment posted as had to log back in!

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

I think that's what mine's got. I will ask my vet about Cystaid. Thank you for the advice.

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

I would call him an average drinker compared to my others. Nicola Logan (good vet) at Putland's vets suggested I washed the food as well, which I've always done. Yeti was on Septrin for 3 weeks. He also has cucumber everyday and usually melon too.
Yes, Trinity vets is my next port of call! I was recommended to them by Nicola Logan, so I will let you know how I get on.
Thank you for all the advice.
Everybody has been so helpful with their replies.

 

[alpacasqueak]

Zithromax is supposed to be a brilliant antibiotic for these issues in piggies, though for humans really! Never used it as thankfully never had these problems before! Definitely ask for it! Wish I'd gone to a different vet but second one I've tried in town and always good with my seven year old cats but anything what doesn't woof or meow confuses them immensely! Wish I'd gone to Cavy Savvy vet straight away and saved a lot of money and stress for me and my pig!
Hope your piggy feels better and sorts out nasty problem!

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

calcium deposits in piggies

Zithromax is supposed to be a brilliant antibiotic for these issues in piggies, though for humans really! Never used it as thankfully never had these problems before! Definitely ask for it! Wish I'd gone to a different vet but second one I've tried in town and always good with my seven year old cats but anything what doesn't woof or meow confuses them immensely! Wish I'd gone to Cavy Savvy vet straight away and saved a lot of money and stress for me and my pig!
Hope your piggy feels better and sorts out nasty problem!

I think we've all been there. The first vet I used was a really nice man, and not condescending (I've found some to be like doctors, when they talk down to us!), but although he meant well, I wish I'd found a more experienced one sooner. Fortunately I have and am going to try the specialist next week. The couple I used to see in Hastings hardly charged anything. People like that I admire; they give up all their spare time to help animals and make no profit from it.

 

[Caviesgalore (EPGPR)]

I would call him an average drinker compared to my others. Nicola Logan (good vet) at Putland's vets suggested I washed the food as well, which I've always done. Yeti was on Septrin for 3 weeks. He also has cucumber everyday and usually melon too.
Yes, Trinity vets is my next port of call! I was recommended to them by Nicola Logan, so I will let you know how I get on.
Thank you for all the advice.
Everybody has been so helpful with their replies.

I thought it was going to be Nicola, she is absolutely fab, very knowledgeable and approachable and not frightened to ask for a second opinion if she is stumped. Mark is also very good, I've seen him a couple of times with the rescue buns, a word of advice - make sure you allow yourself plenty of time to get to him as it's a nightmare to park! If there are no spaces behind the practice you can park in the Tesco bit of the car park if you get desperate but only for about half an hour. I generally end up driving round the roads trying to find space! Do let us know how you get on.

 

[Pigjes]

Simple blood tests can indicate if there is an infection"somewhere". An elaborate blood test can look at all possible urinary chemicals.

 

[gizzy]

Simple blood tests can indicate if there is an infection"somewhere". An elaborate blood test can look at all possible urinary chemicals.

Ditto to that,Though taking bloods can be very invasive,

I find Wee analysis adequate for indicating bladder infection

you also have to be careful as if the problem is calcium sludge related Septrin can actually make the problem worse!




I have exactly the same problem with an old boar of mine and I am trying cutting out certain foods in a process of elimination,

Out of curiosity do's your lad eat carrots, yes I know they're not very high on the calcium scale, but I have noticed when I juice them, to mix with powder when syringe feeding,
If I leave carrot juice standing for any amount of time it produces a white powdery sediments/sluge at the bottom!

This is the only vegetable I've have Juiced that has done this so I was wondering perhaps it does the same to the bladder?

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

I thought it was going to be Nicola, she is absolutely fab, very knowledgeable and approachable and not frightened to ask for a second opinion if she is stumped. Mark is also very good, I've seen him a couple of times with the rescue buns, a word of advice - make sure you allow yourself plenty of time to get to him as it's a nightmare to park! If there are no spaces behind the practice you can park in the Tesco bit of the car park if you get desperate but only for about half an hour. I generally end up driving round the roads trying to find space! Do let us know how you get on.

Thanks for the advice about the parking, sounds like a nightmare! Yes, Nicola is very knowledgeable and such a nice person with it too.

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

Simple blood tests can indicate if there is an infection"somewhere". An elaborate blood test can look at all possible urinary chemicals.

Thank you. All the advice I've been getting has been great.

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

Ditto to that,Though taking bloods can be very invasive,

I find Wee analysis adequate for indicating bladder infection

you also have to be careful as if the problem is calcium sludge related Septrin can actually make the problem worse!




I have exactly the same problem with an old boar of mine and I am trying cutting out certain foods in a process of elimination,

Out of curiosity do's your lad eat carrots, yes I know they're not very high on the calcium scale, but I have noticed when I juice them, to mix with powder when syringe feeding,
If I leave carrot juice standing for any amount of time it produces a white powdery sediments/sluge at the bottom!

This is the only vegetable I've have Juiced that has done this so I was wondering perhaps it does the same to the bladder?

Yes, he does eat carrots, when he gets a look in as he's female companion is the 'fastest eater in the west'! I wasn't aware that Septrin can make matters worse. It's been amazing all the info. and advice I've received from people on here, thanks.

 

[Pigjes]

Any juice leaves deposits when it dries out, even water.

What happens is this. Humans need a lot of calcium, we need about 100% of what we take in. Although pigs are genetically close to us, they only need calcium up to 30% and all the excess is excreted through urine. That is, if they are older than 6 months, as they still need a lot of calcium to grow before that. Problem is that some pigs can't get rid of the excess well and sludgy pee appears. A low calcium diet can help to prevent stone formation in the bladder and kidneys, when the calcium crystals click together to form a stone.

Many people don't realize that veggies like parsley contain so much calcium, it's a real attack on the urinary system. Look at this chart. Anything above 60%, or in this case 60 mg, is to be considered high in calcium for the pigs. http://www.guinealynx.info/diet_vegs.html

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

I have those charts, courtesy of Nicola Logan at Putland's Vets. They are very helpful; I remember that dandelions are another one high in calcium.

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

Hi,
I thought I would let you know how Yeti is getting.....not too good. Mark at Trinity vets has put him on Veraflox for a urinary infection. Also, he took x-rays, blood samples, checked urethra tubes to the kidneys for any stones. the good news is it's not stones, but Yeti has started to lose weight and I'm now syringe feeding him as he's not eating. His teeth have been checked. I am going to take him to see a rodentologist Monday as I don't know what else to do for him, and I'm very worried that I'm losing him.

 

[piggyfan]

I am sorry yeti is not doing well. I really hope he starts to eat.

 

[Amanda1801]

Hi,
I thought I would let you know how Yeti is getting.....not too good. Mark at Trinity vets has put him on Veraflox for a urinary infection. Also, he took x-rays, blood samples, checked urethra tubes to the kidneys for any stones. the good news is it's not stones, but Yeti has started to lose weight and I'm now syringe feeding him as he's not eating. His teeth have been checked. I am going to take him to see a rodentologist Monday as I don't know what else to do for him, and I'm very worried that I'm losing him.

What are you hoping that a rodentologist can achieve, that a highly experienced exotics specialist vet can't?

Is there anywhere near by that you could get a CT scan done? X-rays aren't 100% conclusive for stones - they can be missed if small, if they've been obscured by bony structures etc. A CT scan gives a whole lot more information and in my experience, isn't much difference price wise than an x-ray. An animal the size of a guinea pig will have a "pig-o-gram" - i.e. the whole pig will be scanned, so it may show up something that's been missed - be that stones or something else. One of my pigs went in for a CT for bladder stones, and came home with a diagnosis of pneumonia!

Do you have the results of the blood tests? One of mine showed signs of stones for a while, and it turned out to be renal failure - the blood results should give you an indication of kidney health.

 

[Caviesgalore (EPGPR)]

Sorry to hear you didn't get a definitive answer for what is going on with Yeti I tend to agree with Amanda, did Mark run through the blood results with you? I am pretty sure they must have a CT scanner at Trinity, it is, after all an exotic specialist so worth asking about one.

Just a word of caution about Veraflox, I'm pretty sure one of my adopters used this antibiotic with her piggy for a suspected cystitis (she also sees Mark) and she ended up with bloat - this was obviously an extreme case, but just something to watch for. If Yeti isn't eating for himself you will need to get plenty of syringe feeds in - why do they always choose bank holidays/weekends to become ill? - if you don't have access to critical care or science recovery you can use regular pellet food, pop some in a cup, add boiling water, leave to cool, add more water as needed.

Sending hugs and get well vibes, i know how hopeless you can feel when you can't get to the bottom of what is going on, particularly when you have seen an exotic specialist. Please keep us updated and good luck with your little guy x

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

The rodentologists are guinea pig lovers and have been trained by Vedra at Cambridge Cavy Trust, and I've found in the past that if they can't find what's wrong, then nobody can, but they don't have access to x-ray equipment, etc. They think the antibiotic and pain relief may've upset his tummy and have suggested acidophilus. A vet would probably disagree, but the rodentologists had a case similar, and the guinea pig recovered. When it was taken off the acidophilus, it lost interest in it's food again. It's went back on the acidophilus and lived a long and happy life.
The blood tests are clear, but I will ask the vet about a CT scan.

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

The blood tests are clear. I will ask about a CT scan, although the bladder infection has cleared, so the rodentologists think the Veraflox has upset his tummy and has suggested acidophilus, which they tried on a piggy with a similar problem, and it worked, and went onto live a long life. They say it will take a couple of weeks to start working, so I am syringe feeding him a few times a day with Science Selective and Ready Brek, which the piggies seem to go for when they're unwell.

 

[Amanda1801]

Have they done a urine culture to see a) if there is bacteria and then an antibiotic sensitivity test to see b) which antibiotics its sensitive or resistant to? I'm on my phone so difficult to re read it all

 

[guinea_pig_gal]

No, neither of those. Thank you very much for this advice, I'm going to ask the vet about this.