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Chest infection

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Theodora

My female pig ,aged nearly four,has been diagnosed witha deep seated chest infection(she has been xrayed) ,which she has had for several months,on and off,and she has had several courses of Septrin,which solved the problem temporarily,but it always came back.She has now become resistant to Septrin,and is on a course of Baytril.The vet says if Baytril doesn't work she should either be euthanased or Penecillin could be tried,which could cause side effects.I was very surprised,as i had thought Penecillin was toxic to pigs,plus my girl is happy and eating well,and i don't think she is ready to go yet.Her only symptom is loud breathing,which doesn't appear to cause her distress.
I went on the internet,and,as i thought,all sites said Penecillin was toxic.Other antibiotics were named as being safe,namely Bactrim,Doxycycline and Chloramphenicol.
Has anyone any experience with any of these antibiotics,or has anyone any advice for me.I don't think i will go for Penecillin anyway.
 
what do you use as bedding? wood shavings or sawdust are not good!

is it an indoor or outdoor piggy?

also piggies can become allergic to things - hay, air fresheners, hairsprays

and deodarant sprays to name but a few.

if it is something that keeps coming back it might be a cause?

sorry i don't know about medication!
 
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We have already explored the possibility of an allergy,but it was ruled out.Kim lives indoors with her sister,who is well and unaffected.They are bedded on newspaper ,with dust extracted hay on top,and i have always been careful to avoid aerosols in their vicinity.
Thanks any way.:(
 
Euthanasia, penicillin? ABSOLUTELY NO. Penicillin is FATAL to guinea pigs, which is a rather drastic and permament drastic side-effect !
My first reaction before I read the other posts was she has hay-fever.
You answered your question yourself, "she is happy and eating well" Not yet on her last legs!
The fact the treatment is not working leads to two possibilities:
The diagnosis and/or the treatment is wrong. I suspect both. I would stop the treatment, wait and watch.
I have had many pigs over the years with hay-fever, ie an allergy problem. The breathing sounds of a pig with that can be quite disturbing, to say the least. It can sound as though the pig is trying to breathe with it's nose in water and you can sometimes get an additional sound like a plastic bag being crunched.
Treatment: put some Olbas Oil on a tissue and hold it under her nose for a little while, about one or two minutes, a few times each day.
I wonder if you are on Skype?
You could phone the Cambridge Cavy Trust on 07721026401 for help and advice, it may take a few attempts to get through. There is a a vet just outside London, in Broxbourne, who does know something about gps and the CCT will give you his number.
From what you have posted I do not feel your pig is ready to depart this life just yet.
A deep seated chest infection would (probably) have killed her before now. I hope other posters will agree, in broad terms, with what I have written.
 
Thanks, you saved me the trouble of looking for Amir's number and of Theodora trying to get through to Vedra!
If you read my last post, on the Skype thread, about a vet 130 miles from here I am referring to Amir.
 
it doesn't have to be a spray air freshener, one of my piggies had some

chesty problems on and off for a while and it cleared up completely after

changing his bedding from wood shavings to aubiose and removing a gel air

freshener from the room he was kept in indoors.

there were other piggies kept in that room that it didn't affect at all it depends on the piggy if its allergic or not.
 
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Thank you both so much for your replies.I am not on SKYPE,but will definitely phone the guinea clinic,and give the Olbas oil a try.The noise she makes is like a wheeze,which is sometimes very loud and scary,but if you look at her,she does not seem distressed.They did xray her,but they said they have hardly ever xrayed guineas,and so interpretation is difficult!The problem began in December,which i had not thought of as a time for hay fever problems,but i am probably wrong.I have been trying to think what she could possibly be allergic to,but can't think of anything at the moment.
I am quite shocked at my vet's suggestions after what you have told me.I go to the Blue Cross for financial reasons,and i see a different vet nearly every time.Some are more knowledgeable about guineas than others,but surely this one should have known not to give penicillin!
 
i agree with alcesterpigs on this one,diagnosing an allergy maybe hard it could be any product you started using/something growing that didnt use to or a range of other causes i would be careful with your vet i can't undertsand why the would offer euthanasing or Penecillin for a reasonably healthy piggie i hope all works out ok xxxxx
 
Allergic to hay?

Thank you for your reply.I am still thinking,but i really use no products in my girls' vicinity that could cause an allergy.Is it possible for a pig to be allergic to a certain sort of hay?My girls are bedded on newspaper ,with a layer of dust extracted feed quality Dorset hay on top,and they have Timothy hay in their hay rack.I clean their cage with a cleaning disinfectant for small animals that is phenol free.I am really puzzled.
Anyway i have some Olbas oil now,and will start using that,and i will phone the guinea clinic on Monday.
 
It is possible for a guinea pig to be allergic to one type of hay, but not another. Hay is often, although advertised otherwise, dusty. Some hays are dustier than others (for example, Timothy hay is dustier than Orchard grass both Timothy hay and Orchard grass are different (higher grade) than meadow hay))

Is she just coughing? A URI, especially one which has gone on for this long and hasn't depressed her, would show a number of symptoms beyond her just coughing.

On your antibiotics list
Bactrim - I've been prescribed this before... for bladder stones. It's best used for UTI's, my vet missed the bucket with this one. :)
Doxycycline - this one is safe too. It's a broad spectrum anti-biotic, but if you're trying to battle a URI with it, allegedly you need a high dose. http://www.guinealynx.info/antibiotics.html

Chloramphenicol - goes for lung infections.

Your vet doesn't seem too cavy-savvy. I think you should print both pages I've refered you to (Guinea lynx is a well-established medical guide my vets refer to. Also invaluable to a guinea pig owner for cross-checking information)

If your vet has solid reason to believe that your piggie has a UTI, you could ask him/her to do a culture on the bacteria in your pigs lungs to find which of those three antibiotics would be best. Blankly refuse penicillin.

You *can* telephone the CCTrust and use advice given by them to guide your vet in her care. I use three vets
Vet 1 - cheap yet clueless. I use them for anything rabbit oriented, flea/mite treatments and awkward nail clippings or when I don't feel like doing it.
Vet 2 - my current local vet. When they first met me I was like a bull on fire and heartlessly interrogated them on what they'd do if x-happened, would they be okay with taking blood/x-rays/prescribing metacam. They do, but for awkward illnesses they will refer me to...
Vet 3 - specialist rodentologist with a particular interest in guinea pigs. In the past, this vet and Vet 1 have exchanged files/information and I've asked Vet 1 to treat my pig based on what Vet 3 has asked me to do. This vet is also not too expensive, but awkardly placed.

You may want to consider setting up a network of vets like this. Remember, they're there to provide a service to you that you are paying for.


Here's a list of dangerous medications for guinea pigs:
amoxicillin (Clavamox)
ampicillin
bacitracin
cefadroxil
cephalexin * (derivative: Cefadroxil)
cephalosporins
cephazolin
chlortetracycline
clindamycin
dihydrostreptomycin
erythromycin
lincomycin
oxytetracycline
penicillin
streptomycin
http://www.guinealynx.info/dangerous_medications.html
 
Oh, here's another thought:

wheezing can be associated with allergies (often better to diagnose with treatment once everything else has been exhausted, [reference: Thistle Cavies Rescue] who is currently treating a girl with allergies.

Also, does she make any "hooting" sounds or is she difficult to rouse?

- for all that is holy, don't put the olbas oil *under her nose*. Sit a pot of hot water with some drops in it in the room by her cage. You'll burn her nasal passage, that stuff's strong!
 
Heart problems can also present problems such as recurrant respiratory infections - if indeed, they are infections. However I would also be inclined to investigate allergy first.

Zithromax (Azithromycin) is another safe antibiotic - you can ask/PM furryfriends (Debbie) for more information on that, I believe her vet is usually willing to consult with other vets on the use of it in guinea pigs.
 
CCC4 said:
Heart problems can also present problems such as recurrant respiratory infections - if indeed, they are infections. However I would also be inclined to investigate allergy first.

Zithromax (Azithromycin) is another safe antibiotic - you can ask/PM furryfriends (Debbie) for more information on that, I believe her vet is usually willing to consult with other vets on the use of it in guinea pigs.
Click to expand...


My Joe can vouch for Zithromax he had on off chest infections for five months and scared me awful his chest would make some awful noises like your piggy he never went off his food. He had several lots of Baytrill, then septrin for a whole month still no good then Debbie told me about Zithromax which my vet had not used before but got some in for us and it cleared Joes chest straight away and he has been clear now for five months. Please ask your vet to try this its wonderful.
 
Septrin and Bactrim are one and the same....just different names for the same drug (co-trimoxazole)

What dosage of Septrin have you been giving ?
 
Teadragon
"for all that is holy, don't put the olbas oil *under her nose*. Sit a pot of hot water with some drops in it in the room by her cage. You'll burn her nasal passage, that stuff's strong!"

I have been usiing Olbas Oil under pig's noses and have never been aware of burnt nasal passages.
I wonder if you have seen pigs with burnt nasal passages?
 
alcesterpigs said:
Teadragon
"for all that is holy, don't put the olbas oil *under her nose*. Sit a pot of hot water with some drops in it in the room by her cage. You'll burn her nasal passage, that stuff's strong!"

I have been usiing Olbas Oil under pig's noses and have never been aware of burnt nasal passages.
I wonder if you have seen pigs with burnt nasal passages?
Click to expand...

You're sticking it under their nose, a nose which is designed to be much more acute than your own. Olbas itself is a strong smell and from the bottle and web site the recommended way to use the oil is to drop it onto a tissue to "fill the room with powerful Olbas vapours" or (for a stronger approach) to fill a bowl of hot water and put a few drops of oil into the water. I remember reading that it is not recommended that you should put it on a tissue and stick it under a humans nose - why recommend doing the same to a guinea pig?
 
I can only repeat that I have used it that way many, many times and so have friends with their pigs and never had any trouble. I would be interested to know how others use it on their pigs.



"for all that is holy"
Did you mean that or the other quotation;
"......subdue/all that is not holy/all that is not true"




PS Are you on Skype!?
 
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I have just found this on another forum site:

"Breathing problems can be solved two ways. The less intrusive method - use a few drops of olbas oil on a tissue and hold the piggie in a cuddle with the tissue near their face. Don’t put the oil on the piggie’s nose, it will irritate the skin. Remove it if the piggie gives a really big sneeze, this will have cleared the airways and eased the breathing, which is the best olbas oil can do. "

That, in essence (excuse the pun) is what I do.

What I will not do is to put Vick ointment onto a pig's nose because they cannot escape from the smell. At least wafting the bottle of olbas Oil under the nose the exposure time, usually 10-20 seconds, can be controlled.

Theodora. has your pig been given a diuretic?
 
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If it's a really stubborn, deep seated chest infection then I would definitely suggest a course of Zithromax. It works fantastically well on URI's and pneumonia and is also very well tolerated.

If you want more info on this, then please PM me.
 
As i said before we have had no problems after Zithromax, but when Joe was at his worst and on Septrin which did not help for more than a week then he was weezing again i used to dap some olbas drops on some kitchen roll and place it on the top of his cage so he could smell it and not try to eat it. Jimmy his cage mate who was totally fine didnt mind the smell either plus it helped me and my sinuses toox)
 
wheezy chest

Thank you everyone for your help.I will try and answer all the questions.Kim has never coughed,sneezed or had any discharge,just the noise that sounds like a loud wheeze.She doesn't have it all of the time,but a lot of the time,and when she does have it,it varies in intensity.When it is loud it is quite alarming,but she seems perfectly well ,and has eaten like a horse throughout her problems.
She has never been given a diuretic,but she is on a pinch of Bisolvon and a pinch of probiotic daily.She was on 0.6 ml of Septrin twice daily,but is now on 0.2 ml of Baytril twice daily.
I did find the info on antibiotics on the Guinea Lynx site,thank you,and i will certainly ask about Zithromax when i phone the guinea pig clinic,
I tried putting two drops of Olbas on a tissue and putting it near Kim's nose when she was on my lap,but she got quite alarmed,so i have put it on top of the cage now,and they don't mind that.
I will let you all know what the guinea clinic has to say on Monday.
 
it really sounds like an allergic reaction to something the symptoms do sound

like what my sebastian had - sounding really chesty at times but not all the

time. but every other way he was fine in himself.

look forward to seeing how you get on monday?
 
The accepted dose of 2.5% Oral Baytril, assuming that is what your pig has been prescribed, is 0.4ml twice daily.
In all honesty I would stop the antibiotic. From your latest description of her problems, I am as sure as I can be that her primary condition is not an infection but "allergy" related.
I can't remember whether you have checked for anything which may be stuck in her nose?
Olbas Oil on top of the cage is fine.
Her outlook is certainly more optimistic than when you first posted.
 
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I have looked up her nose,but couldn't see anything.
I phoned the guinea pig clinic,and they think she has an allergy,or possibly a heart problem.They said to stop the antibiotics,and to give her 0.2ml of Piriton children's syrup twice daily,and i have started her on that tonight.As they are too far away from us for us to attend,they gave me details of a guinea pig savvy vet at Ewell,and i have made an appointment for Thursday.I feel a lot happier now ,so thank you all for all your help.Will let you know what happens.:)
 
We have both just got back from the vet,very tired after two trains and a long walk both ends.Kim went straight to sleep.The vet agrees it is either an allergy or a heart problem,and has started her on Lasix.She said to stop bedding them on hay,as the dust in this may be the problem,although it is (allegedly) dust extracted.I have to phone her with a progress report on Saturday.She made no comments on my previous vet's suggestions of euthanasia or Penicillin,but she said Kim did not look ill,and agreed Penicillin is toxic to guineas.
 
Bedding

?/Thanks,i guess that is the next stage,if Kim doesn't respond to allergy treatment.
I have installed my guineas on towelling ,as per vet's instruction,but do not know how often to change this.Is once a day sufficient?Kim and Katie were a bit astonished when i first put them on it,but quickly adjusted.Kim's breathing is no better yet,but it's early days.Any advice about better bedding options would be appreciated
I have been seiving my "dust extracted " hay through a collander before putting it in the hay rack,and you would be amazed at how much dust came out ! !
 
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hi i would chane the towel depending on the amount of poo's per day 2 times should be ok and if it looks particuarly yucky then change it more reguarly.fleece is another good option that shouldnt make any allergies worse:)
you could also use vetbed its way more abosorbent than fleece
 
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I'm so pleased you have found a vet who has helped you - despite the unenviable journey to get to her!

I have not heard of using Piriton syrup for piggies, do let us know if it helps any. I also hope the Lasix helps if it does come down to a heart issue.
Gorgeous Guineas recommended an anti-allergy medicine - have a look in the sticky about hayefever, all the info is in that thread if you did want to know more. I'd be intrigued for more info on the Piriton though.

Fleece or Vetbed is preferable to plain towels. Towels absorb but tend to smell more. Best material bedding combination is towels underneath fleece or Vetbed, you get the best of both worlds - dry surface, absorbant underneath. Fleece is cheap, as little as £20 to set up a few cage sets depending on size of the cage. I do a complete clean every three days, and the fabric goes through the machine on a quick, 30 degree wash.
 
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