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Dental - Anorexia

I hope they will share those Xrays with Simon... I hope they will be honest now that they have nothing else to do in mind...
 
@CavyConnoisseur You don't need to be referred to Simon, you can just make an appointment with him. Give your current their phone and fax number and they will transfer his file over.

I would think that your vey isn't experienced in pigs so they are seeing what they believe to be elongated roots, which are likely to be normal.
 
Roots can appear to be elongated, due to the angle the x ray is taken from, when in reality the roots are completely normal. To say the roots have grown due to the dental procedure is totally incorrect and this just highlights even more that they aren't knowledgeable about guinea pig dental issues.

If you get the crowns of the teeth correct, the guinea pig will eat.
 
Just caught up with this thread. Sounds like you and poor Theo are having an awful time. Have you got him home yet? It sounds like your vet is panicking and trying to fob you off with all sorts. I have no experience with dental piggies (neither does your vet by the sounds of things!) but I reckon Theo would be better off home with you and people who know and love him. He will also be less stressed being back home where he is in familiar surroundings. Remember Theo is your piggy and you know him best.
 
Theodore is home! We had to push extremely hard to get him out of there, they did not want him to go, but we did it. Sadly he is still not eating, he is extremely thin now compared to before he went in, his bottom is also a complete mess, I assume due to lack of food. He did poop the moment he got home, it was a soft clump but it's better than nothing, the vet said he was not pooping at all... He is bright and alert, chatty, lots of fighting spirit, he does not seem like a Guinea Pig that should be put to sleep at all in my opinion, he just needs food.

I managed to get 8ml of critical care down him the moment he got home, the vet said the only way they could get him to eat it was if 2 people restrained him, they basically admitted they can't be bothered to put the time and effort into force feeding him and because he wouldn't willingly take it, they didn't give him much, if any at all. They told us to strongly consider putting him down. We asked for his medications but they did not give us them as he already had them this morning, they want to see him again tonight at 4pm. We are being heavily judged by them because of our decision to bring him home, I think they think we are being cruel to him by keeping him alive.

We contacted Animates to get him an appointment with Sarah Pellet, sadly she is not available this week and is on holiday leave from Sunday. None of my family or friends are willing to drive us to Simon as it's too far, sadly he is not an option either. As we're desperate he has an appointment tonight with a different vet local to us, not a specialist or exotic, it's just to get a another opinion.

I see in the vet locator there is William Taylor at Springfield veterinary group in Rotherham, we could travel there, is this vet worth a call?
 
@CavyConnoisseur It's definitely worth a call. Ask him/them of their experience with dental pigs and judge whether they're worth a visit.

It'd very unlikely that you're going to get an appointment anywhere before Tuesday, so over the weekend you need to really get that food into him. How much does he weigh now?

I've asked Furry Friends if there is any space for him at TEAS but I know she's really busy at the moment, handling everything on her own for a while.
 
Jaycey said:
@CavyConnoisseur It's definitely worth a call. Ask him/them of their experience with dental pigs and judge whether they're worth a visit.

It'd very unlikely that you're going to get an appointment anywhere before Tuesday, so over the weekend you need to really get that food into him. How much does he weigh now?

I've asked Furry Friends if there is any space for him at TEAS but I know she's really busy at the moment, handling everything on her own for a while.
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He weighed 1040g when he got home and I've already gotten about 20ml of critical care into him, he is 1055g now after just 2 feeds, I'm doing them hourly and he is doing well with it, wrapping him up tightly in a towel and covering his eyes is doing the trick at the moment. He has even taken a drink from his water bottle himself after the 2nd syringe feed, huge improvement already!
 
You are doing great! Keep it up @CavyConnoissseur! Your vet was wrong he is not ready for pts yet! It makes me so angry when a vet suggests that:rtm:. You know your pet better than anyone. I'm so pleased you have Theo home:D.
 
How often do you guys think I should syringe feed him, and how many ml should he ideally eat per feed? At the moment he's eating around 10ml per hour, is this OK? I don't want to feed him too much and cause him bloat since he has barely eaten for so long, I want to make sure I help not hinder him. :)
 
@CavyConnoisseur Keep it up. You really are doing your best. He's in the best place at home, he'll feel more comfortable too and will want to try eating sooner.

They normally suggest 120ml per 1kg of pig per day, but you can adjust depending on how much he's eating himself, and how his weight is. 10ml per hour is great, if you can get more in during the day then you won't need to get up during the night to try to get more in.

It's very positive that he's taking so much. I've only every had to syringe feed one pig aggressively and when I got him back from my vet he was in such a mess that I could hardly get anything into him. His poor little body was already failing. Theodore sounds really strong.

TEAS can't help at the moment, so I think the best plan of action if continue with the aggressive handfeeds whilst trying to persuade someone to take him to Simon. Unfortunately Simon is fully booked for a little while so it will be a few weeks before he can be seen anyway.

Definitely call the other vet so you have a back up if you do need to go back.
 
Jaycey said:
@CavyConnoisseur Keep it up. You really are doing your best. He's in the best place at home, he'll feel more comfortable too and will want to try eating sooner.

They normally suggest 120ml per 1kg of pig per day, but you can adjust depending on how much he's eating himself, and how his weight is. 10ml per hour is great, if you can get more in during the day then you won't need to get up during the night to try to get more in.

It's very positive that he's taking so much. I've only every had to syringe feed one pig aggressively and when I got him back from my vet he was in such a mess that I could hardly get anything into him. His poor little body was already failing. Theodore sounds really strong.

TEAS can't help at the moment, so I think the best plan of action if continue with the aggressive handfeeds whilst trying to persuade someone to take him to Simon. Unfortunately Simon is fully booked for a little while so it will be a few weeks before he can be seen anyway.

Definitely call the other vet so you have a back up if you do need to go back.
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He is very strong considering his situation, with the vet advising PTS I expected him to be lethargic, limp, depressed, but he is no where near that stage. He's talkative, active, playing with his new toys, rumblestrutting at his neighbour pig friend Chester! He's acting normal, just thin and can't eat but he is trying really hard, I'm very happy he is drinking from his water bottle, I didn't expect him to do that so soon.

When I've syringe fed my other pigs I can always feel their molars easily with the syringe, but with Theodore his molars are barely there, I honestly feel like they are filed too short and it caused the infection in his jaw and obviously the pain. Once the syringe gets past his tongue to the very back of his mouth he syringe feeds just fine and swallows everything. I'm being quite aggressive but this is what is needed to keep him alive, it's for his own good.

I really feel that he just needs time and supportive feeding, he has great fighter spirit and as long as that continues we will not give up on him, no way!
 
He sounds like he still has the will to live. I like that he is rumblestrutting still and that he is trying to eat it all shows that you did the correct thing in bringing him home. You are doing your very best for your piggy keep on going and once his teeth have grown back he'll be eating for himself.
 
CavyConnoisseur said:
Theodore is home! We had to push extremely hard to get him out of there, they did not want him to go, but we did it. Sadly he is still not eating, he is extremely thin now compared to before he went in, his bottom is also a complete mess, I assume due to lack of food. He did poop the moment he got home, it was a soft clump but it's better than nothing, the vet said he was not pooping at all... He is bright and alert, chatty, lots of fighting spirit, he does not seem like a Guinea Pig that should be put to sleep at all in my opinion, he just needs food.

I managed to get 8ml of critical care down him the moment he got home, the vet said the only way they could get him to eat it was if 2 people restrained him, they basically admitted they can't be bothered to put the time and effort into force feeding him and because he wouldn't willingly take it, they didn't give him much, if any at all. They told us to strongly consider putting him down. We asked for his medications but they did not give us them as he already had them this morning, they want to see him again tonight at 4pm. We are being heavily judged by them because of our decision to bring him home, I think they think we are being cruel to him by keeping him alive.

We contacted Animates to get him an appointment with Sarah Pellet, sadly she is not available this week and is on holiday leave from Sunday. None of my family or friends are willing to drive us to Simon as it's too far, sadly he is not an option either. As we're desperate he has an appointment tonight with a different vet local to us, not a specialist or exotic, it's just to get a another opinion.

I see in the vet locator there is William Taylor at Springfield veterinary group in Rotherham, we could travel there, is this vet worth a call?
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Huge well done for getting him home. The fact that they admitted they were barely feeding him is terrible, his gut could have shut down if that had carried on and then he'd have no trouble reaching thier prognosis of "too sick to live". Poor Theo!

I am so so glad he is home with people who love him and are willing to put the effort into nursing him back to health poor little guy. He is in far far safer hands with you rather than that vets clinic. Hoping some other vet practice will be far more clued up for your sake and his.
 
i suggest the pets at home vets (vets4pets). Although p@h aren't best known for selling healthy piggies, they are very knowledgeable on piggies as they get a lot in. The vets aren't anything to do with p@h, they are just located there for convenience for the owner as lots of people have a nearby p@h. They get you in quickly and efficiently and have treated two of my piggies and helped them both get to their healthy state again. Hope this has helped in any way and that your piggie pulls through. They won't keep him at the clinic or anything, as the simply don't have space, but they will always send you home with a medication and, if the piggie is in a hugely critical state, they often take the cost on for you.
 
KaitlinH said:
i suggest the pets at home vets (vets4pets). Although p@h aren't best known for selling healthy piggies, they are very knowledgeable on piggies as they get a lot in. The vets aren't anything to do with p@h, they are just located there for convenience for the owner as lots of people have a nearby p@h. They get you in quickly and efficiently and have treated two of my piggies and helped them both get to their healthy state again. Hope this has helped in any way and that your piggie pulls through. They won't keep him at the clinic or anything, as the simply don't have space, but they will always send you home with a medication and, if the piggie is in a hugely critical state, they often take the cost on for you.
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I wouldn't let them file his teeth or anything because you would probably want a proper specialist to do that but, the vets are very knowledgeable there and are great for a second opinion if you need one x
 
@CavyConnoisseur if you want a hand with syringe feeding him & even getting him to Simon please pm me, I think Simon would see him as an emergency which he now is, providing Simon/Kim are around next week? Meanwhile can you get some Emeraid food from your vets? This is a very high cal food & will help him enormously at this stage x
 
KaitlinH said:
i suggest the pets at home vets (vets4pets). Although p@h aren't best known for selling healthy piggies, they are very knowledgeable on piggies as they get a lot in. The vets aren't anything to do with p@h, they are just located there for convenience for the owner as lots of people have a nearby p@h. They get you in quickly and efficiently and have treated two of my piggies and helped them both get to their healthy state again. Hope this has helped in any way and that your piggie pulls through. They won't keep him at the clinic or anything, as the simply don't have space, but they will always send you home with a medication and, if the piggie is in a hugely critical state, they often take the cost on for you.
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We did take him to vets for pets at pets at home yesterday, funny you said that lol! They said he definitely should not be put to sleep, at least at this stage, he's still full of energy, spirit and is trying to eat, it's just a case of supportive care until he is eating normally again. They gave us all the medications we wanted for him, we got loxicom for his pain/inflammation, emeprid for his guts and baytril for his jaw infection (which they vet thinks is an abscess), we have lots of critical care and syringes at home already and we have fibreplex (probiotics) for him, he's getting everything we can possibly think of to aid his recovery and he is still doing well, getting stronger every day!
 
CavyConnoisseur said:
We did take him to vets for pets at pets at home yesterday, funny you said that lol! They said he definitely should not be put to sleep, at least at this stage, he's still full of energy, spirit and is trying to eat, it's just a case of supportive care until he is eating normally again. They gave us all the medications we wanted for him, we got loxicom for his pain/inflammation, emeprid for his guts and baytril for his jaw infection (which they vet thinks is an abscess), we have lots of critical care and syringes at home already and we have fibreplex (probiotics) for him, he's getting everything we can possibly think of to aid his recovery and he is still doing well, getting stronger every day!
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so pleased to hear this! I don't rate pets at home for buying animals but their vets are very good. They are very knowledgeable and do what's right for the piggie. I hope that they are right with the diagnosis and can help you get your piggie to his full happy form <3
 
Theodore update: I am amazed at how much he has improved since being home, I can't believe the vet wanted us to put him to sleep, I'd love to show them him just to prove what FOOD and proper care does for Guinea Pigs. Theodore is eating around 45-50ml of critical care every 3 hours, we offer him 60ml (we use the 15ml feeding syringes so 60ml is four of those) but he wears a lot of it so 45-50ml is an educated guess of how much he is consuming, which is a fantastic amount in its own right. Since feeding him like this he is pooping for England, his poops are slightly smaller due to the lack of hay he's eating but they are fully formed and there's tonnes of them just like a normal piggy, he wasn't pooping at all at the vets.

He gets 10ml of water per feeding also, I give him 1 syringe and then 2ml of water afterwards, then another syringe of critical care etc, you get the idea, it's the routine we've found works best for him. After his feedings he also gets 1ml of Fibreplex, this wasn't prescribed but since he is on oral baytril with a slow GI already, I felt it was best to give him probiotics too, I swear by Fibreplex and always have it in for situations like this, it's a phenomenal appetite stimulant too which is exactly what he needs! He is still on emeprid twice per day also to keep his gut moving, we are now debating his loxicom as he is doing so well and doesn't seem to be in pain now, we may be stopping that in a day or two.

Theodore has gained over 100g over the weekend, we brought him home from the vet on Friday morning so this is a huge amount of weight to put on in just 3 days. He looks and feels amazing, he feels strong, solid and chunky like he used to, rather than weak, frail and thin like he did last week. His eyes were sunken in, crusty, weepy, the skin on his eyelids were hanging down and bright red, his nose was wet and crusty, he was drooling and sticking his tongue out, his coat was rough, dull and greasy. All of this has gone now, he looks like a perfectly normal piggy now, his eyes are bright and clear, his coat is vibrant and shiny etc, you can see in the video how great he looks.

Over the weekend he went from eating nothing at all, to nibbling veggies and tiny pieces of grass, on Sunday he began to eat full sprigs of coriander and parsley and can now eat small chunks of pepper, celery and cucumber, and today he got back from his vet check up (at vets4pets) and started eating handfuls of grass normally, all by himself! He was sat on my lap eating parsley so I offered him a fluffy top as he still wasn't eating hay or grass, he didn't want it so I gently forced the fluffy top into the side of his mouth to the back, he actually ate it, took him a couple of minutes but he did it, I knew he was capable of eating that but he didn't believe me, so I showed him that he CAN do it. It was right after this he began to gorge on fresh grass, he still hasn't stopped eating grass since this video, he is unstoppable now! He is yet to eat hay and pellets but I don't think it will be very long now until he achieves that, he realised today that he isn't in pain anymore and he can eat his normal food, I think he just lacked confidence and needed some persuading.

I am so proud of myself, my Sister and my Mum for working as hard as we have to save Theodore, he really appreciates our help and I hope within a week or two he will be completely back to normal!

 
Jaycey said:
Pigs don't get anorexia. They stop eating because either they can't or it's too painful. And in your case it sounds like both.

Unless your vet and vet nurse staff are very experienced in handfeeding pigs then I highly recommend your bring him home to feed him yourself.

I don't want to frighten you but if he hasn't pooped or peed for a few days there is a risk of his digestive system shutting down and he will die. He needs to be fed, and alot to get his system going again.

If he were mine I'd bring him home, with Metacam and Zantac and/or Metoclopromide and start to aggressively handfeed him. You can use a combination of Critical Care and his regular pellets wet down into a consistency you can get into a 1ml syringe (with the end cut off). The vet can provide the syringes.

Also, offer his lots of his regular food so he can try to eat. Give him wet pellets, lots of hay (cut into smaller pieces if you can) and small pieces of chopped up veg. I give small long thin pieces of veg and small cubes so they can try both. Some can pick up thin pieces, some cubes. Also offer him lots of pieces of food by hand.

Depending on what the vet has done will determine what he can eat. If it's just his front teeth that is the mess then he should be able to chew his veg if you help him get it in his mouth. If it's all of this teeth then he won't want to eat so you'll have to force feed him.

The vet will probably claim that he's best off staying there as they have 24/7 staffing but in my experience he'll get checked every few hours and be given a couple of syringes of food. The fact that he's not pooping shows they're not feeding him enough.

The next few days will be tough but if you can feed him little and often then you have a chance.
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Bring him home ASAP, he needs to be fed 24/7 & I'm sorry but that means through the night too, & make sure you get the meds.
 
That is absolutely fantastic news @CavyConnoisseur . I am so happy for you all, and for Theo.

You've all done so well to help him recover. He may need further dental work if he doesn't get back to eating properly but you've put him in great stead to survive it.

I really am so happy, it has made me tear up. You should really proud!
 
you have done so well,he will improve.if you need someone to take him to simon i could help,you need to get an appointment with simon as soon as you are able,let me know when and where i will be willing to help.:)
 
CavyConnoisseur said:
We did take him to vets for pets at pets at home yesterday, funny you said that lol! They said he definitely should not be put to sleep, at least at this stage, he's still full of energy, spirit and is trying to eat, it's just a case of supportive care until he is eating normally again. They gave us all the medications we wanted for him, we got loxicom for his pain/inflammation, emeprid for his guts and baytril for his jaw infection (which they vet thinks is an abscess), we have lots of critical care and syringes at home already and we have fibreplex (probiotics) for him, he's getting everything we can possibly think of to aid his recovery and he is still doing well, getting stronger every day!
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My Wee Willow had Dental surgery last Monday and still not eating herself. How long have you been battling with keeping your piggy going? Our Vet had said today would be the cut off point if she hadn't attempted to eat over the weekend, nut like you, I felt she's still quite spirited so worth keeping going! Home with more a Metoclopramide etc.
 
@CavyConnoisseur i am so thrilled you and your family mananged to help pull the little guy back from what was starting to look like a very bleak situation at the vets. Make sure you tell them how much better he is doing now!

Just goes to show what round the clock care can do. Yes it's awful on our sleep but it can really help to save little lives.
 
Janice C said:
My Wee Willow had Dental surgery last Monday and still not eating herself. How long have you been battling with keeping your piggy going? Our Vet had said today would be the cut off point if she hadn't attempted to eat over the weekend, nut like you, I felt she's still quite spirited so worth keeping going! Home with more a Metoclopramide etc.
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Theodore also had his dental surgery last Monday, the same day as your Willow, he stayed at the vets all last week and wasn't improving at all, so we brought him home on Friday morning and he has improved this much already from there.

You can try what I'm doing with Theodore with Willow if you like, it's working really well for him so it might for Willow too. :)
 
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