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Dental Dental issues!

Pigoles

Junior Guinea Pig
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Am looking after SIL guinea's pigs and noticed one boar had really reduced appetite for a few days ... refusing usual foods! Also losing weight - down to 800g this morning. Took to vet who found rough edges to molars, so went under anaesthetic earlier today. Melvin was very hungry on arrival home, but couldn't eat even soft food (even tried grape!), but did eat some mashed pellets off a spoon. Have fed this every three hours (plus water), but last feed he refused to eat off the spoon, so did my best to syringe feed him some of his pellets blended with water. I'm wondering if it is his pain increasing as anaesthetic wears off? Should he have been given some further pain relief? The vet said to bring him back if not eating - should I take him back tomorrow? How long would you expect him to go after the op before he begins to eat again? Just worried about him!
 
Am looking after SIL guinea's pigs and noticed one boar had really reduced appetite for a few days ... refusing usual foods! Also losing weight - down to 800g this morning. Took to vet who found rough edges to molars, so went under anaesthetic earlier today. Melvin was very hungry on arrival home, but couldn't eat even soft food (even tried grape!), but did eat some mashed pellets off a spoon. Have fed this every three hours (plus water), but last feed he refused to eat off the spoon, so did my best to syringe feed him some of his pellets blended with water. I'm wondering if it is his pain increasing as anaesthetic wears off? Should he have been given some further pain relief? The vet said to bring him back if not eating - should I take him back tomorrow? How long would you expect him to go after the op before he begins to eat again? Just worried about him!

Hi!

Please have him seen again tomorrow but you absolutely need to syringe feed for as long as it takes - ideally at least 60-90 ml in 24 hours. Keep in mind that around 80% of the food intake is normally hay fibre, which is rich in abrasive silica and necessary to keep the crucial back teeth ground down. If you can, try to get hold of some dog pee free grass (again rich in silica) or fresh herbs, he may be able to eat those. Grated or finely cut veg may also go in but grass and herbs are often the first fresh stuff that goes in.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Unfortunately guinea pig dentals are not something that feature in vet training. With the best (very few) piggy savvy dental vets across the world,guinea pigs should be able to eat immediately afterwards (especially those that could be done without a GA) but between GA and a not perfectly balanced dental system/pain from the procedure, many piggies sadly struggle to eat in our forum experience; sometimes for so long that the teeth overgrow again.

Ideally they are rebalanced in a series of treatments without GA, just a few weeks (or in extreme cases days) apart with gradually lengthening intervals to rebalance the dental system permanently, but this concept has sadly not yet penetrated far.

Could you please add your country, state/province or UK county to location in your account details (accessed via clicking on your username on the top bar) to make it appear with every post you make. This allows us to tailor any advice to what is relevant and available where you are straight away with just a quick glance to the left. We have quite literally members an enquiries from all over the world and very different conditions. Without this we have to keep any recommendations as general as possible. Thank you!
 
I'm in the UK ... south Wales. Overnight, I managed to get about 11mls of mashed pellets/water mix into him (tho some went down his front as he wasn't very co-operative - head-butting syringe out the way and then hiding his face in the towel!). He refused to eat the mashed pellets off the spoon again ... but was initially when he got home form the vet? He has just had a few nibbles of freshly cut grass, but only a few strands ... then left the plate. I am growing them some herbs, so will try a bit of dill/basil/coriander, plus some grated veg today.
I have also noticed that he is no longer sleeping lying down, just crouching hunched up in his hay? Is this pain? If I take him to the vet, what should I ask for? Should he be having any medication (e.g. pain relief)?
Also should I put his friend Bella back in with him? I took her out last night (as she was eating all the softened pellets instead of him!), but this morning I have noticed that she will not eat her food either! I think she's pining for him (we think she's blind from cataracts - they were both rescue piggies)?
 
I'm in the UK ... south Wales. Overnight, I managed to get about 11mls of mashed pellets/water mix into him (tho some went down his front as he wasn't very co-operative - head-butting syringe out the way and then hiding his face in the towel!). He refused to eat the mashed pellets off the spoon again ... but was initially when he got home form the vet? He has just had a few nibbles of freshly cut grass, but only a few strands ... then left the plate. I am growing them some herbs, so will try a bit of dill/basil/coriander, plus some grated veg today.
I have also noticed that he is no longer sleeping lying down, just crouching hunched up in his hay? Is this pain? If I take him to the vet, what should I ask for? Should he be having any medication (e.g. pain relief)?
Also should I put his friend Bella back in with him? I took her out last night (as she was eating all the softened pellets instead of him!), but this morning I have noticed that she will not eat her food either! I think she's pining for him (we think she's blind from cataracts - they were both rescue piggies)?

It could be pain, I’d certainly ask the vet for pain relief.
Yes, reunite him with his friend, being separated will be stressful for them both
 
Thank you! I will put her back into their indoor C&C run with him (she was in their hutch overnight but kept Melvin inside). What sort of pain relief will the vet give - should I ask for something that I can also give at home?
 
Thank you! I will put her back into their indoor C&C run with him (she was in their hutch overnight but kept Melvin inside). What sort of pain relief will the vet give - should I ask for something that I can also give at home?

If the vet think he is in pain you will likely be prescribed metacam which you can give at home
 
Thank you - this forum is great! I searched for other threads and asked vet for Metacam.
Vet gave pain-killing injection and anti-inflammatory injection, and I have Metacam to give him from tomorrow.
Vet has prescribed 0.16ml once daily dose of Metacam (0.5mg/ml). Melvin weighed in at 798g this morning.
I am continuing to syringe feed ... have got 40mls of pureed pellets into him so far today, and he's nibbled a bit of freshly cut grass, but refused grated apple/carrot ... always is a fussy piggie tho! I am also syringe feeding water, but he is drinking a bit from his water bottle with encouragement.
Still looking 'hunched up', but now out keeping Bella company as she won't eat unless he is near her!
 
YOu are doing well with the syringe feeding, keep it up until he is able to eat properly. Can you weigh him daily on kitchen scale and keep a note of his weight, you will be able to see if he is maintaining his weight x
 
Thank you! I am monitoring his weight ... a drop of 2 grams from yesterday. I'm worried about getting the consistency of the mashed pellets right ... I want to try to get as much into him as possible, but worried that the puree is sometimes too watery ... but if it's too thick, it will not go up the syringe?!
Tonight he has taken some pepper, grape and strawberry cut into tiny, tiny pieces of a spoon. He is interested in his food and tries to take groundsel, soft thistle, Readigrass (getting all his favourites right now!) into his mouth, but doesn't seem able to bite chunks off? He couldn't even bite chunks off the strawberry? Is this likely to be because his mouth is still very sore (it's 36 hours post the grinding of his molars and GA) ... or because of another reason?
Bella (companion) is happily eating all his leftovers!
 
A bigger drop in weight this morning :( ... now down to 781g from 800g on Thursday (day of dental op).
I managed to get 65ml of mushed pellets into him yesterday (plus a tiny bit of chopped pepper, strawberry and grape - and he nibbled a few strands of grass).
Really worried as no interest shown in grass last night.
I will try hard to get more syringe feed into him ... but struggle as it's my first time feeding like this! I am feeding his own pellets (Burgress), as didn't have any CC feed and as he's normally quite fussy, so thought he may refuse it ... but wondering whether some CC may help maintain his weight?
 
I've just been looking for Critical Care online ... is there any way to get it on Amazon Prime? The earliest I can see that it will arrive is Tuesday ... but I'm so worried piggie may not last that long! His own food (Burgress pellets) seems to clog the syringe and so I have to use more water, and I'm wondering whether that's why he not gaining as too much water in the pellet mush?
 
I've just been looking for Critical Care online ... is there any way to get it on Amazon Prime? The earliest I can see that it will arrive is Tuesday ... but I'm so worried piggie may not last that long! His own food (Burgress pellets) seems to clog the syringe and so I have to use more water, and I'm wondering whether that's why he not gaining as too much water in the pellet mush?
I think your mushed pellets have to be quite watery or they do get a bit stuck, Bear in mind a weight difference of around 30 gms a day is quite normal, it can be the difference of a full bladder/tummy or an empty one. With weight you are looking for a trend, upward or downward over a few days/week. You are doing well. Can he eat beetroot sticks out of a Bistro Salad bag? This was my Ted’s favourite after he had his first dental which he could hardly eat after too, that and grass as well as syringe food kept him going for over a month till we could get him to see Simon Maddock in Northampton who does conscious dentals and sorted Ted‘s teeth out properly and got him eating hay within 10 minutes of the dental. My local vet had not done it right, he had also cut his incisors so short he could not pick up food either.
 
I've just been looking for Critical Care online ... is there any way to get it on Amazon Prime? The earliest I can see that it will arrive is Tuesday ... but I'm so worried piggie may not last that long! His own food (Burgress pellets) seems to clog the syringe and so I have to use more water, and I'm wondering whether that's why he not gaining as too much water in the pellet mush?
Mushed pellets are just as good and a lot cheaper too
 
I would say pain also. Only a vet can tell you what dose of metacam to give, but a 0.16ml of cat metacam once a day is not very much at all
 
Thank you! I am monitoring his weight ... a drop of 2 grams from yesterday. I'm worried about getting the consistency of the mashed pellets right ... I want to try to get as much into him as possible, but worried that the puree is sometimes too watery ... but if it's too thick, it will not go up the syringe?!
Tonight he has taken some pepper, grape and strawberry cut into tiny, tiny pieces of a spoon. He is interested in his food and tries to take groundsel, soft thistle, Readigrass (getting all his favourites right now!) into his mouth, but doesn't seem able to bite chunks off? He couldn't even bite chunks off the strawberry? Is this likely to be because his mouth is still very sore (it's 36 hours post the grinding of his molars and GA) ... or because of another reason?
Bella (companion) is happily eating all his leftovers!
I think your mushed pellets have to be quite watery or they do get a bit stuck, Bear in mind a weight difference of around 30 gms a day is quite normal, it can be the difference of a full bladder/tummy or an empty one. With weight you are looking for a trend, upward or downward over a few days/week. You are doing well. Can he eat beetroot sticks out of a Bistro Salad bag? This was my Ted’s favourite after he had his first dental which he could hardly eat after too, that and grass as well as syringe food kept him going for over a month till we could get him to see Simon Maddock in Northampton who does conscious dentals and sorted Ted‘s teeth out properly and got him eating hay within 10 minutes of the dental. My local vet had not done it right, he had also cut his incisors so short he could not pick up food either.
I make them quite thick and have no problem getting them into the syringe. I don't know if the type of syringe I use helps.
 
0.16 ml of cat metacam is going to give very little, if any, pain relief. We would give around 0.4 ml - 0.5 ml of dog metacam, which equates to 1.2 ml - 1.5 ml of cat metacam, to give you an idea of how small the dose, you've been prescribed, is. We also give twice daily, as guinea pigs have such a fast metabolism and after 12 hours the medication would be completely out of their system.
 
Don't really know what to do. SIL rang the guinea pigs usual vet (I have been looking after them since February). Their usual vet was also insistent that 0.16ml daily was sufficient of the (cats) Metacam and that I shouldn't give any more. So I haven't - but hate seeing him hunched up :(
He did get out of his bed once earlier and walked about a bit ... and then sat with Bella and ate a little freshly picked grass (Bella ate all the leftovers!). He also ate a little strawberry - I cut it up into tiny pieces and he ate it off the spoon.
I'm still syringe-feeding and giving water by syringe as not drinking much today when I offer his water bottle. I really hope he picks up soon!
 
An sad update. :(

I continued to give syringe feeds every 2.5 hours during the day and once at night. Melvin was still pooing regularly, but small, hard poos. I gave extra water with the syringe feeds and wet the bits of grass that he would nibble. He would nibble a little grass and strawberry/grape cut into tiny pieces off a spoon. But hardly ever getting up to walk around his c&c, largely just sitting hunched in his bed. I rang the Northampton vet for advice (when he got back from holiday on Monday), as was so worried Melvin was in pain. The phone call was reassuring that I was doing the right things with Metacam/syringe feeds/warmth and quiet familiar surroundings, but realistic that it may be that Melvin had an ongoing dental issue that had not been resolved by the vet's GA dental surgery ( :( ), or an underlying issue alongside. His age was unknown as he was a rescue piggie ... but was fully adult when SIL rehomed him 18 months ago, and the rescue said he had had a previous life with his own harem of girls!

However, on Monday afternoon, Melvin refused his syringe feed over two feeds, wriggling strongly to get away and only taking water from the syringe reluctantly. I read the forum guides, about refusal of syringe feeds, and spoke to my SIL (Melvin's owner) about what this may mean. I did managed to get more into him over the next few syringe feeds (back up to 12-15 mls), and he tried to nibble on some cucumber when in his c&c, but initially nearly gaining back to his (already low - 800g) pre-op weight, he dropped 15g overnight. I felt that 5 days on from his dental surgery, there was little improvement.
He did take another 15mls syringe feed in the morning, then a reluctant 3mls at the next feed. He was able to drink from his water bottle for the first time, and eat some groundsel, but when my SIL arrived, we decided that it was time. He was so frail, and it was so very painful watching him just sitting, not the bossy, inquisitive, lively piggie that I knew.

His cage mate Bella had also dramatically changed her behaviour, after sitting peacefully with him over the first few days, she starting with 'rumbling' at him occasionally. I sat them together after feeding Melvin to take some photos and then she suddenly began trying to jump onto his back continually! He was so frail, he couldn't move away. I don't know why her aggressive behaviour suddenly started, as they were only separated for brief 30-45mins periods when I syringe-fed Melvin? I decided to separate them with c&c grids inbetween, as Melvin was so frail. Melvin came to the bars to investigate and rubbed noses with her, before going back to bed, but Bella was so agitated. She continually nibbled at the bars, squeaking, running around, trying to climb the grids - I had never seen her like this! I sat quietly and tried to calm her with my voice/favourite foods, but her behaviour continued. I tried showing her Melvin on my lap, but again she did more jumping aggressively on him, so eventually I had to cover the bars between them with a blanket, and leave her sitting against the bars. That was one of the saddest times - seeing the bond seemingly disappear, as she has always cuddled up to him as her protector. I don't know why her behaviour changed so much?

Sweet Melvin cuddled into me, before the vet took him away. I brought him home, and placed him in with Bella (as advised in the forum guides), for three hours, before burying him amongst the roses.

It's the questions that haunt me ... the feeling that I failed him. I tried so hard (having very suddenly suddenly become a piggie mum 5 months ago!), reading up on feeding properly, making their c&c, planning and making their outdoor run with my father and spent so many happy hours looking after these sweet piggies over the last 5 months. Yet the one mistake I made was not regularly weighing them, not recognising the alarm bells of a few days of less breakfast eaten and thinking Melvin seemed a lighter piggie as I picked him up ... I wonder if I had acted a few days earlier, would that have made the difference?
And in the pain of the last few days after his op ... the questions of what was the right thing to do (as I knew from reading on here that the vet in Northampton was away and Melvin was so weak), but I worried that my local vet was the wrong choice? The daily worry ... would he pick up, was he suffering, was he strong enough to pull through? He was himself right to the end ... headbutting me away with the syringe and rumbling at me when I laughed ... but I regret trying to persuade him to take his last feed ... I wished I had spent that time just cuddling him ... he would wriggle himself into the crook of my elbow and relax as I stroked him. The questions remaining are the hardest thing ... but I didn't want him to be in pain ...

And now sweet Bella. She is calmer, but scared. She is skittish ... scurrying to hide in her bed at movement, despite my best efforts to use slow movements and my voice. She is scared to venture outside of her bed, so have been trying to utilise lots of her tunnels and thin mesh cover over the end of her c&c to try to make her feel safer ... and today she had a little mooch about with vocal encouragement ... but so very tentatively. The added complication is that I think she is blind with cataracts, as she seems the navigate by smell, with her nose searching the ground? She used to closely follow Melvin, right up to his bum when put into a cleaned c&c, and struggled to find food unless you stuck her nose right into it! I wondered whether she followed his scent trails? I have kept the layout of her c&c the same ... to try to give her comfort in familiarity ... but worry that she is struggling without him to guide her.

She has the jumper that I wore to nurse Melvin over his last days rolled up in his usual bed next to hers. I go to sit and chat with her every couple of hours, to offer her favourite foods (she loves soft thistle!), and cuddle her also. She is eating well, nibbling her hay ... I pick fresh grass for her every few hours, plus eating her morning/evening veg of cucumber, pepper, celery ... plus she nibbled a few pellets his morning ... and is pooing normally. I have tried her in her outside run, and she did venture out for 1/2hr yesterday to nibble the grass. I weigh her daily (very concious of importance of piggie weights now!) and she is floating within 20g of her weight last week (around 1255g-1275g). She feels like her usual tubby piggie with a big soft round tum!

I haven't yet put her back in the cage (they used to go in their overnight) as I'm too nervous and prefer her where I can see her in her c&c! I worry that she will be lonelier there without my frequent voice. But it's so hard not having Melvin running excitedly up to see me. It's hard facing the absence of not seeing his little face ... when your heart twists with sadness ...

Thank you so much for all the responses and help given. I am now trying to do my best for sweet Bella ...
 

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I am so very sorry that you have lost Melvin :( If it helps, I also lost a piggy to dental issues :( but please be assured that you did all you could.

Be kind to yourself as you grieve.

Sleep tight Melvin xx
 
I am so very sorry that you have lost Melvin :( If it helps, I also lost a piggy to dental issues :( but please be assured that you did all you could.

Be kind to yourself as you grieve.

Sleep tight Melvin xx
Thank you very much ... it just seems so hard to lose a piggie to a dental issue ... as I keep thinking could the outcome have been different? :(
 
So sorry for your loss. It’s horrible. I wish vets wouldn’t try and do dentals if they aren’t experienced. I’ve nearly lost one piggy, and put another piggy from an unneeded operation, due to exotic vets posing as dentists when that is so far from the case. Simon in Northampton sorted them out (we are still dealing with the repercussions from one issue, we have to travel to Northampton from Barnsley every two weeks at the moment to keep on top of it). Simon is a blessing, if you ever find yourself in the same situation again, don’t even bother trying anywhere else. Every time I’ve trusted another vet who isn’t Simon with anything mouth related, I’ve regretted it :(
 
Also, to add, I trust this forum and it’s members more than vets (aside from Simon) due to their experience. Some vets really don’t understand guinea pigs, even if they are exotics.
The amount of pain relief prescribed would have been doing basically nothing. As TEAS (owner of a dental sanctuary) said, 1.2-1.5ml of the Cat metacam would have been an appropriate amount and would have managed pain. I’m actually so shocked that a vet who prescribed you that little metacam felt they were confident enough to perform a dental procedure. Just by that dosage alone tells me they understood very little about guinea pigs. I’m just so sorry that you and your lovely guinea pig were on the receiving end of this inexperience.
 
It's the knowledge that I probably made wrong choices for him that is most painful :( I did consider taking him to Simon (a two plus hour drive), but didn't think he would survive until this week (as read that Simon was on holiday) as Melvin was weakening so fast. But part of me thinks maybe with the knowledge I now have gained from here over the past week, I could have kept him going with syringe-feeding until this week? But all the wondering hurts ... and most of all, I didn't want him to be in pain, but sadly I know he was. How do you get vets to prescribe higher doses of painkillers? I feel like I gained Melvin's trust and then I let him down ...
 
It's the knowledge that I probably made wrong choices for him that is most painful :( I did consider taking him to Simon (a two plus hour drive), but didn't think he would survive until this week (as read that Simon was on holiday) as Melvin was weakening so fast. But part of me thinks maybe with the knowledge I now have gained from here over the past week, I could have kept him going with syringe-feeding until this week? But all the wondering hurts ... and most of all, I didn't want him to be in pain, but sadly I know he was. How do you get vets to prescribe higher doses of painkillers? I feel like I gained Melvin's trust and then I let him down ...

Please don’t feel like you have let Melvin down as you haven’t.

Only a vet can prescribe a higher dose of painkiller but some are reluctant too.
 
It's the knowledge that I probably made wrong choices for him that is most painful :( I did consider taking him to Simon (a two plus hour drive), but didn't think he would survive until this week (as read that Simon was on holiday) as Melvin was weakening so fast. But part of me thinks maybe with the knowledge I now have gained from here over the past week, I could have kept him going with syringe-feeding until this week? But all the wondering hurts ... and most of all, I didn't want him to be in pain, but sadly I know he was. How do you get vets to prescribe higher doses of painkillers? I feel like I gained Melvin's trust and then I let him down ...
Don’t blame yourself, it’s the vet that is to blame. Guinea pigs are usually able to eat right after dentals which are done correctly, obviously with GA it takes a bit of coming round but the same idea still applies.
With pain relief, I tend to give as much as I see fit. It’s not up to the vet in my eyes, as I’m right there with my pig and can judge his pain. As metacam is liquid, you can syringe however much you like. I had one vet in the past prescribe my pig 1.5ml twice a day of the dog metacam so that’s like 10x (I’m no mathematician) stronger than what you were giving your piggy, so don’t be afraid of OD’ing them, lol. Generally I go by Simon’s dosage which is 0.3 or 0.4, depending on which piggy, twice a day of dog strength metacam. Sometimes if I feel pain is bad then I give that dosage every six hours to make sure it’s constantly working at maximum strength. Obviously, if you’ve only got a small bottle then it might mean you’d run out if you did this but generally if you run out of metacam/loxicom and ring the vets, they will give you more to pick up. With the pain relief, the strengths are either dog or cat, but if you get prescribed a cat metacam which is weaker then you can calculate a proper, higher dosage - which trusting, what Debbie had said, would have been 1.2-1.5ml for Melvin.

As owners, we do what we think is best at the time. You didn’t want him suffering for any longer and then you made the most selfless choice you could ever make. You are not to blame for this. Everything you did was out of love, and the person you trusted with the care of your Guinea pig failed you. I was almost in your position because a vet failed to do the job they had me believe they could do correctly. Because of that, my pig went through a month of agony which he partially disguised. We didn’t know the extent of his suffering until Simon informed us of this after essentially saving his life. I felt horrible, I still do. The fact that he was in so much pain breaks my heart.
We are also over a two hour drive from Simon, I rely on lifts to get there, but it’s always worth it because he’s a vet that I never ever second guess. Whatever he tells me, I trust him.
You didn’t let Melvin down, everything you did was to make him better and not in any pain. Be kind to yourself

Edit; also the fact that you had to actually ask for the pain relief in the first place is very telling of the kind of vet you went to. Metacam/loxicom is very important to control pain particularly after an operation and particularly a dental! The pain relief is something I feel piggy owners should always have at hand as if you notice something off in your pig, you can use it as a precaution to help them feel better until you are able to be seen by a vet.
 
I’m so sorry you’ve lost Melvin, you tried very hard to keep him going, I‘m so sorry for you x
It’s extremely difficult finding a vet who can do guinea pig dentals correctly, there’s only one I trust Simon Maddock in Northampton as my Ted has had two very unsuccessful dentals with local vets in the past. We are taking Ted for dentals every two weeks atm from Cornwall, it’s a great strain looking after dental piggies and you did a marvellous job looking after him x
 
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