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Dottie’s breathing and skin issues

Thanks all, she's munching well and doing more poos now, so a bit livelier which is nice. But I called them anyway and their next available appointment for euthanasia is on Friday, so I booked that in. If she changes before then, they would make space for her in an emergency, but if we can keep her comfortable until then hopefully that will be ok. She's taking meds back from a syringe again without leaving her cage - I squeezed some fresh strawberry juice diluted with water and put that in the syringe after her meds and she happily guzzles it all down. She's now enjoying some celery leaves and nuggets. We'll try to give her cuddles and her favourite snacks and then try to get ready to say goodbye. I expect her appetite is lower than usual but she's not in stasis and we have the gut meds too.
 
I'm so sorry to read this. You must be absolutely devastated at having to make this decision but like everything you've done for Dottie you have put her interests and comfort first. You are an amazing owner. You and Dottie will be in my thoughts now and on Friday.
 
Content warning - questions and thoughts about euthanasia methods below.

Apologies in advance for this incoherent ramble, I'm just trying to get some thoughts straight as I feel a bit all over the place (in life generally for various reasons, but definitely worse with this Dottie sadness).

Dottie is booked in to be PTS tomorrow at 4.20pm, and I am starting to have doubts. Maybe this is inevitable.

She has been brighter today, eating loads, looking perky, it's so confusing. I hate the idea of taking a happy pig to be put down, but I hate the idea of waiting too long to the point she is suddenly in distress (although we could most likely get an emergency PTS quickly, we have our regular vets 6 days a week, and a closer 24/7 one which we have never used but we're registered with). Is that still something to be avoided though if we can, maybe..

What's so confusing is she's had periods like this before and then been relatively better for some time, so what if there's a chance she could live comfortably for more weeks or even a couple of months?

On the other hand, the meds are possibly/probably not doing what they used to (which is normal for her progressive condition) and we may well just keep going through these cycles - top up the meds, stabilise her, need a bit more next time. There is also the danger of kidney failure at high dose drugs. But how to judge when she seems happy? When she looks worse she does look a bit fed up, or is that just tiredness? She's 6.

Since booking the appointment I've tried to focus on the idea that this is better for her, but I am doubting this now. I also don't like depriving her of the chance to die quietly at home. But I am worried it will be distressing for her if it is sudden and breathless.

She doesn't love travelling and the normal vets is about 20 mins in a taxi. The vet said we could give her a higher than normal dose of gabapentin to help calm her for that journey. (I read a study that said rabbits showed less anxiety at the vets when on gabapentin, I don't know how much it helps pigs.)

I seriously considered the home visit vet companies that do euthanasia, but given her heart issues, I think I want a trusted vet who I know will do it according to her needs and adjust if needed. One of the vets from my usual place says they can use either gas, or injection before the final injection, and they can tailor it to the situation, in terms of how she is with her breathing, stress, whether I wanted to hold her or not. One of the vets seemed to suggest that gas can be quicker if an animal needs to be knocked out quickly for their own good (?) but I may have misunderstood that.

Whilst I don't like the idea of her dying in a clinic, I do trust that our vets with their vast experience of operations and PTS procedures will know about the drugs and know what to do for the best in terms of giving her as smooth and gentle a passing as possible. But I am struggling with the choice, and with the timing.

And if we do go ahead, should I be asking for gas, or the injection first that goes into the muscle? They have said of course that either way, the animals are completely unconscious before they get taken away for the final stage. I don't like the idea of Dottie being scared by the initial muscle injection but I don't like the idea of her being scared on her own in the gas. It's all so graphic and confronting isn't it.

Anyway as it stands we have our appointment tomorrow and it is with one of the vets she knows well, he is caring and gentle and calm and softly spoken.
Maybe second guessing is normal here.. but she has just been licking my hand and headbutting me for more spinach and mint and the idea of taking her off tomorrow for this 'procedure' is incredibly hard to bear.

I know no-one can answer this really, and I accept it's quite possible I'm clutching at straws seeking out clues to see if she is doing a bit 'better', but I wanted to get it off my chest. What a strange and seriously uncomfortable position it is to be playing God with another creature's life, esp one so innocent and sweet as a little guinea pig, and I know this is something many of you understand.
 
I'm sorry and I don't know. This is something I used to struggle with too, I don't have guineas anymore so only reason I don't still struggle with it, the actual 'when to pts' that is. Here I was never given a choice on methods.

Sending support.
 
There are no easy answers are there. Right now her breathing looks stable, she’s eating as much as ever, getting excited when she hears me going to the fridge apparently (my partner is watching her at the moment and indedpendly commented that she seems much perkier) and Dottie was having a little mooch. She does sleep quite a lot but she doesn’t seem unhappy. That’s today anyway. Maybe this is the cooler weather she responding to? Arrrgghhh…I feel like the clock is ticking to make a decision but I suppose there is the option of postponing. Is that just prolonging for no good reason though.. Sorry again for thinking out loud. I guess we’ll keep an eye on her and see what happens next. If she gives a further sign of struggling that would decide it. I have been trying to treat today as if it is the last and I just cried coming out of the shop buying her favourite herbs for potentially the last time.. no one told us you could fall this hard for these little furry potatoes but I ts a big deal isn’t it!
 
I’m so sorry you are having to make this decision. I can’t answer your questions about methods of euthanasia. My vets take the piggy away to do it. I waited in my car and they brought him out to me when it was over.

Sending you hugs. ❤️
 
Yes, there's the possibility to postpone. If you think Dottie has reasonable quality of life and is not suffering, there's no reason not to give her a few more days or weeks.

Some of my oldies spent a lot of time asleep, but would get up, toddle around, eat their cucumber and whatever else, interact with me and their guinea mates, give themselves a wash and go back to sleep. A bit like old people falling asleep in their armchairs.
 
She’s just squeaked for food and got annoyed I took too long to bring it to her (she shows me this by headbutting her fleece while she waits and then grabbing the leaf out of my hand). She does seem much brighter. I don’t want to tempt fate so maybe I’ll leave the appointment in and see how she goes today and tonight, just in case, as she may still slip again.. 😢

…but if she’s still looking as bright and normal tomorrow I might ask to keep it as a phone catch up instead, and have a chat, which they have always been happy to do, sometimes with a video for them to look at beforehand. It’s already paid for anyway.

Of course as soon as we decide not to go probably something will change again. But it doesn’t feel right.

What a roller coaster…
 
So sorry that you are facing such a rollercoaster of emotions and such a difficult decision.

When to pts is probably one of the hardest calls any of us make. We don’t want to do it too soon, but equally we don’t want to leave it too late.
In the end all you can do is go with your heart - you know Dottie and your love for her will guide you. You will make the right decision at the right time.

Euthanasia for a guinea pig is very swift and painless. Vets know how to do the procedure and every vet I have had experience with has been kind and compassionate with the piggy.

Holding you in my heart ♥️
 
Thank you, that is very reassuring to know I must say. It does sound like the way her life will end. Whether it’s tomorrow or another time we’ll see. At the moment she’s oblivious and devouring some coriander.

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She’s still perky and has been eating hay all morning, begging lots. Not as active as yesterday but also not a pig who seems on her way out. So I couldn’t bring myself to take her yet and have just cancelled that PTS appointment and asked for a call instead.

Of course now I have done that, she’ll probably deteriorate and I’ll hate myself forever for not giving her this option. But the option remains, and they are open 6 days a week with emergency back up. Knowing that all vets are good and smooth with PTS helps, as I know I could get her somewhere in minutes if need be. Due to a difficult home family/health situation, little Dot is literally never alone, so we are able to see how she is.

I’ll go through my concerns with the vet on the phone and see if that helps give me clarity about choosing the right time. It feels closer maybe, but it doesn’t feel quite right today. I hope that’s not my heart ruling my head too much.

Sorry to take people on this ‘will they won’t they’ thread.. it’s not a nice topic I know.

Thanks for the support
IMG_7414.webp
 
The decision is yours.
You will know in your heart when it’s right.
No one here minds the will they / won’t they.
It often helps to talk things out with people who understand
 
LucyP said:
She even did a little skip yesterday when she was happy to see some food!
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Doesn't sound like a guinea on her way out! Not yet anyway.

LucyP said:
Sorry to take people on this ‘will they won’t they’ thread.. it’s not a nice topic I know.
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No worries as far as I'm concerned. It's something most or all of us have grappled with. I certainly have, and it's good to be able to discuss with others who might have useful things to say, from an owner perspective.
 
Thank you both. I spoke to the vet. Obviously there’s only such he can judge without seeing her but his thoughts were:

If she seems happy and comfy at the moment then great, enjoy it with her.

She does have a serious heart condition and she already passed the time that many manage to make, she will of course reach the end at some point and in all likelihood that is soon. The high dose of drugs she now needs to keep things going are a sign that we are reaching that point. How soon it comes is impossible to say.

He said no one can say when is the perfect time and it’s very hard, but 'a week early often feels better than a day late', if you have the chance to choose.

We talked about different options and he felt in this case, home PTS might not be ideal as she is a heart piggy and may benefit from the equipment they have in clinic if she needs extra help. We talked about the back up vets etc for out of hours too, but how it would be better for her and us to have this planned and calm once we decide we're at that point.

So we watch and wait but his ‘better early that late’ mantra was not lost on me. And the idea of doing this before it becomes a rushing around emergency.

He said further blips, or a downturn that she doesn't get back to her happy baseline from, would for him be the sign that it is time.

Finally he said 'Give her a cuddle from me', which I did and she was happy with that as that meant an extra a bit of lettuce.

Thanks for the words of support, it really helps.
 
I'm glad your vet had useful and helpful things to say.

Wishing Dottie more happy and comfy days and wishing you the ability to trust your own feelings on the right time. Maybe Dottie will communicate it to you even. My ancient guinea Susie who outlived all vet predictions had a particular look in her eyes when it was her time to be helped over the bridge.
 
Oh bless little Susie, she sounds nice.

I hope so. They can be so stoic but I hope I would know.

She's still bright and inquisitive much of the time and I find it hard to reconcile her heart/breathing issues with the way she can stuff her face with hay and veg sometimes, given that the need to breathe comes first. But I think I'm closer to accepting that we may be getting nearer to the end of the road. Not quite yet though I don't think. This is her when I came to try and change her pee'd on vet bed. She decided she defintely wasn't going to get off it and that the rustle of the bag I wanted to put it in must mean food.

Thank you.IMG_7426.webp
 
She arrived from the rescue in 2024 absolutely petrified, she didn’t want to come out of the carrier for a couple of hours. Ran away from everything and flinched a lot which made me sad for her. But she settled in her with new friend Winnie and grew in confidence over time. Her signature moves since we got to know her are ‘bring food to me in my house’ headbutts on her hideys, and licks to the hand during handling, and both of those have got her very far in terms of charming people and being spoilt! She’s not as outgoing as the others were but she knows what she likes and she’ll let you know about it. She’s adorable.
 
Sorry, been not well myself and busy with my own piggies and my own life these last days so only now catching up.

The worst period is the one when you come close to the end when you constantly question yourself and the little dips and bumps become larger and larger in your mind as you feel so very torn with wanting her live for as long as she has the will to but also not wanting her to suffer; fearing losing her but also dreading not getting it right for her when her time has come. It is the one most stressful and emotionally very conflicted of periods of pet ownership and life in my own experience.

Please be kind to yourself, look after your own mental and physical welfare and take time out for your own mental hygiene - doing sensory grounding and calming activities and/or physical exercises that calm you and give you respite - as often as possible. This will not just help you but also directly benefit Dottie so you can be strong for her, too. You are not selfish when you scale up your self-care in times of extreme stress like this one where you are so deeply emotionally invested in.

We cannot tell you when the right time is - that is for you and your vet to decide - but we can give you our understanding and moral support.

A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
Thank you Wiebke, I think this is a really difficult stage for all the reasons you mention. I think she could carry on like this for a while so on the one hand it feels like what’s the rush. But if she has a sudden deterioration and suffers unnecessarily from my hesitancy, I’ll feel terrible.

So I think my plan now is that the next sign of any downturn, even if small, is probably going to be the time to let her go.

I’m also always wary of bank holiday weekends and having to do out of hours things with vets we don’t know, which could be more stressful for her, so if anything happens in the days before the bank holiday Monday which is coming up here at the end of the month, that might prompt me to take action too.

I keep hovering over the booking page and then she comes and begs for food and looks at me and I just can’t confirm that booking!

😭

But in the end, depriving her of time when she has no concept of that, is better than risking suffering.

Thanks again.
 
LucyP said:
Thank you Wiebke, I think this is a really difficult stage for all the reasons you mention. I think she could carry on like this for a while so on the one hand it feels like what’s the rush. But if she has a sudden deterioration and suffers unnecessarily from my hesitancy, I’ll feel terrible.

So I think my plan now is that the next sign of any downturn, even if small, is probably going to be the time to let her go.

I’m also always wary of bank holiday weekends and having to do out of hours things with vets we don’t know, which could be more stressful for her, so if anything happens in the days before the bank holiday Monday which is coming up here at the end of the month, that might prompt me to take action too.

I keep hovering over the booking page and then she comes and begs for food and looks at me and I just can’t confirm that booking!

😭

But in the end, depriving her of time when she has no concept of that, is better than risking suffering.

Thanks again.
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If she comes and begs for food, then she clearly has enough zest for life and is still exhibiting normal species behaviours to soldier on. But I fully understand your concerns re. the bank holiday. It is always the hardest - on our conscience as well - when circumstances don't force our hand and the full burden of responsibility is lying squarely on our shoulders.

You are doing a great job of hanging in there in one of the most stressful and demanding situations that an owner can encounter.
 
Sad update- despite a really bright weekend, Dottie showed signs of worsening on Monday. I booked her a PTS appointment for tomorrow and then on Tuesday decided to bring it forward to today. Yesterday she seemed really good again so stayed to question it, but I was up with her all night and she really slowed down. Ate well this morning but then looked like she was struggling with her breathing a lot. So I went in today, spoke to the vets and they agreed it was the right time. The vets she’s seen before over many years stopped what they were doing to say goodbye and offer support.

It was confusing as she was perky at the vets but she has been so flat this morning and startling to look uncomfortable, or at least fed up, so I do think it must have been time.

Little Dot had a sedative injection and fell asleep in my arms (very quickly) and then they took her for gas and the final injection. They said she was completely knocked out and at peace. I’ve left her there for a cremation company to collect her, as we don’t have a garden.

Devastated to lose such a brave, friendly, adorable and loving little girl, she was the sweetest little thing, but I am glad if we have protected her from unnecessary suffering.

We’ll miss her beyond words, and this is extra poignant because it marks the end our piggy journey. I hope we have done our little bit for the four lovely rescue girls we’ve had the privilege of caring for, they certainly brought lots to our lives and life won’t be the same without them, an everything that goes with being a piggy parent.

Thank you for all your support, it has made such a difference at many difficult times.
 
IMG_7541.webp

This was her in the carrier at the vet- she was alert and eating hay and interacting which really made me doubt myself again. But I have to trust that three exotic vets know better and were able to be objective which I couldn’t be..
 
LucyP said:
Sad update- despite a really bright weekend, Dottie showed signs of worsening on Monday. I booked her a PTS appointment for tomorrow and then on Tuesday decided to bring it forward to today. Yesterday she seemed really good again so stayed to question it, but I was up with her all night and she really slowed down. Ate well this morning but then looked like she was struggling with her breathing a lot. So I went in today, spoke to the vets and they agreed it was the right time. The vets she’s seen before over many years stopped what they were doing to say goodbye and offer support.

It was confusing as she was perky at the vets but she has been so flat this morning and startling to look uncomfortable, or at least fed up, so I do think it must have been time.

Little Dot had a sedative injection and fell asleep in my arms (very quickly) and then they took her for gas and the final injection. They said she was completely knocked out and at peace. I’ve left her there for a cremation company to collect her, as we don’t have a garden.

Devastated to lose such a brave, friendly, adorable and loving little girl, she was the sweetest little thing, but I am glad if we have protected her from unnecessary suffering.

We’ll miss her beyond words, and this is extra poignant because it marks the end our piggy journey. I hope we have done our little bit for the four lovely rescue girls we’ve had the privilege of caring for, they certainly brought lots to our lives and life won’t be the same without them, an everything that goes with being a piggy parent.

Thank you for all your support, it has made such a difference at many difficult times.
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HUGE HUGS

I am so very sorry.

It was the right time and you have done the right thing to save her any unnecessary further struggles and suffering as it was very much down to a matter of hours and no longer even days. You have put Dottie's quality of life before your own desires and you decision was made based on your love for her so she could make her journey in less distress and not feeling so unwell, carried by the wings of your love and not alone, passing away during the night.

But it is totally normal to question yourself at this stage. We all do it because that is our own human species wiring.

Please be sad but do not feel bad about it. Be aware that Dottie's passing is also the end of an era, which is inevitably going to bring up lots memories and buried emotions because you won't just grieve for her but for all your piggies all over as well.

Give yourself the time and space for that as you are saying goodbye not just to one clearly much loved piggy but also to a whole part of your life that will never come back again in this form but that has shaped you as a person nevertheless. You will be fully open for the next chapter - for which I wish you all the best - only once you have done that.

We are still here as a community of not only piggy owners but also several ex-owners and we are going to be here for you if you hit a snag or have questions during your grieving journey, which can take unexpected turns.

And thank you for your thanks.
 
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