Fighting guinea pigs!

Teazel 2017

Teazel 2017

Junior Guinea Pig
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All my guinea pigs have a uunusually complicated relationship. Teazel and Snowy are best buds, but Ruby and Snowy get on and Ruby hates Teazel. Timtam and Ruby hate each other but Ruby likes Rita and Timtam likes Rita. Etc, etc, etc....But there are lots of fights, what should I do?
 
They are all girls and they all live together, the hutch has 2 levels, the first is about 1 and a half metres by 1 metre, and the top is around a metre square. They all prefer to hang out in the top most of the time, but come downstairs to eat and drink and play sometimes. What should I do about the arguments?
 
Are they serious fights, or are they bickering? There will often be dominance behaviour, especially when any of the girls are in season. As with any group, they're not necessarily going to get on all the time, but as long as they're not getting hurt or bullying(keeping one away from food etc). If the fights are serious, you might need to create two herds, by splitting them into groups which get on.
Give them tons of space And several eating areas, hideys, and water bottles. That should minimize flash points for arguments..
I hope this helps x
 
Teazel 2017 said:
They are all girls and they all live together, the hutch has 2 levels, the first is about 1 and a half metres by 1 metre, and the top is around a metre square. They all prefer to hang out in the top most of the time, but come downstairs to eat and drink and play sometimes. What should I do about the arguments?
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Hi

How many girls do you have and how old are they? Please be aware that a group space only counts the main level because guinea pigs are ground roamers and not climbers. 1 sq metre is about the equivalent of a 2x5 ft cage, which we recommend for 3 guinea pigs (or two boars).

If they are teenagers, then it is the teenage hormones that can affect sows as well as boars, just without the full-on fights and fall-outs that can happen between boars.
In adult sows I would have your girls checked whether ovarian cysts can play a role.

A neutered boar can sometimes soak up a bit of the bickering as he has to get on with all girls, but he needs to be accepted by all sows and he cannot heal any serious rifts. You can't just stick a husboar in and everything is violins and pink roses. Group dynamics can go wrong, as I know myself.
Sow Behaviour
Bonding: Illustrated Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
Bonds In Trouble
Cage Size Guide
 
Timtam will turn 1 on the 6th, Teazel and Snowy will turn 1 on the 13th, Rita will turn 1 on the 24th of November, and Ruby will turn 1 on the 17th of November. I don't think i will be able to afford a neutered boar.
 
I would look at whether they need a bigger cage. As wiebke says, it sounds like your cage is only big enough for three guinea pigs and lack of space leads to arguments.
 
But for reasons of such, I can not get another cage. But the bottom half is massive, they just don't use it often.
 
I'm a bit confused - do you have a 2 story hutch with a run below (so 3 stories in total), or is the bottom half the section that sits directly on the ground with a single layer enclosed hutch above (so 2 stories in total).

Comparing to photos in your other thread and trying to get things string in my head :)
 
Following on from @Tangle comment, I have just had a look at the pictures on your other thread about your hutch. I think from what we are seeing, it is a 2 storey.
I am also a bit confused though because you say here that you can’t get another cage, but in your other thread you are saying that you need to buy a new hutch as their current one is falling apart and want recommendations.
While it is the case that upstairs levels don’t count as their main space, but if they don’t use downstairs much then you are going to have to just count the upstairs area as that is where they are spending the majority of their time and it looks too small for all of them.
If you are looking to buy a new hutch as per your other thread, then getting one considerably larger will possibly help to curb their arguments.
 
Okay. Sorry, to be so confusing, but I ment I can't get another hutch until this one collapses. And, it is mainly just 2 of them having big fights, coming out angry and taking it out on the others. And, BTW, Rita was on heat enough about 3 weeks ago for me to notice, and Ruby was on heat a few days ago and may still be.
 
Do you reckon introducing an older sow, that was full grown would help? Or would it make things worse?
 
I just went out to feed them, and Rita was fine, eating out of my hand, being happy, then Ruby darted her hard, and she moved off, wouldn't even take food that was offered to her. I was worried so after a bit of chasing, because shes not particularly tame, I caught her and checked her over and she seemed fine. Was Rubys dart possibly a warning not to eat any more or she would hurt her? My guinea pig Timtam is dominant with anyone whomdares go near her, and Ruby is just plain mean to Teazel, Snowy and Rita, if she is mean to Timtam, there is a minor fight, and the other 3 hide. What should I do? I am in full panic!
 
Here are also my guinea pigs weights as of yesterday. Timtam, 1090. Snowy, 1000. Teazel, 980. Ruby, 850. Rita, 640. The weight is in grams. Could this have something to do with it?
 
Here are also my guinea pigs weights as of yesterday. Timtam, 1090. Snowy, 1000. Teazel, 980. Ruby, 850. Rita, 640. The weight is in grams. Could this have something to do with it?
 
It is very early morning here, people are only just waking up (this is a UK based forum)
I personally wouldn’t think introducing another pig would help, it could cause more issues while the hierarchy re establishes. Plus, your cage is not big enough for another guinea pig.
 
Generally the advice is, if they are just small arguments and no blood is drawn, leave them to sort it out.
If blood is drawn then they need to be separated.
If it is very clear that some are not getting on with others and things just won’t improve because they simply don’t like each other, then your only option is to separate them off into one pair and trio with the ones who get on best.
The other thing is to handle and feed the dominant pig first. If you feed and handle the lower ranking pigs first then the dominant ones can feel the need to assert their dominance.
 
Problem with seperation is, I could put Teazel and Snowy in a pair, but Rita would suffer at the hands of Ruby. I put Timtam and Ruby in a pair, they would probably kill each other. I seperate Snowy and Teazel and they both get really depressed because they have literally been BFFs their whole life. Do you see my problem? I could put Teazel and Snowy in a pair and Timtam and Rita in a pair, but then Ruby would be lonely!
 
- What do your girls have downstairs?
- How much of the time do they have free access to forage (grass or hay)?
- When did you last weigh them and how have they changed?
- How often do you check each pig for injuries or bodily changes?

This is a bit brief as I need to get out on the school run, but based on what you've said I'm thinking that IF no-one's actually getting hurt, there's a CHANCE that much of the bickering is rooted in your girls competing over resources - both space and food.

Whilst the run is large, it looks to be basically a bare dirt run. What's down there for them, other than space? What temperature is the ground? The air? How breezy is it? Is it sheltered if it rains? Do you tend to get predators creeping around? If they find it a bit chilly and/or damp and/or they feel unsafe, they'll be disinclined to use the space there - which leaves 5 pigs sharing 1m^2, which is a bit cramped.

There doesn't seem to be much grass growing, and I think you've said you're trying to get hold of some hay but they haven't had it as you have allergy issues? That makes it tricky, but Guinea Pigs NEED access to forage 24/7. They should be eating hay or grass almost constantly - its essential for their digestion, and also for making sure their teeth stay in good shape.

Space is obviously a tricky one to solve, but giving them free access to forage might calm things down. Please don't add another pig - if I'm anywhere near right on the cause of the problems adding another pig to compete will only make things worse!

Have you had a trawl through the information guides on here? They should help you try and work out if what you're seeing is just generalised dominance jostling or if there's actually a problem that will need more drastic measures (separation) to resolve. If you want to keep them together then I'd try giving them non-stop hay and see what happens. Good luck :)
 
Added to all of that, can you add some shelter to the run? Blocking off some of the sides and/or adding a hide for them (even if it’s just an old cardboard box, if it’s dry enough)? Places for them to hang out and feel safe - and get a bit of distance from each other!
 
Yeah, the weights are as of Tuesday, they have a few toys down there, such as a food KBAB, an upside down litter tray, which they love to play with, and when it's not raining, one of their fabric tunnels. I pick them some grass everytime I have the chance, and I put a little on the ground downstairs, and some of it in a purposely made bag on a hook upstairs for them to play with.
 
Teazel 2017 said:
Any DIY housing suggestions?
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Not sure if it counts as a DIY housing suggestion, But lots of us use shallow Cat Litter trays as hay trays, which the Piggies love, I generally try to have one per Guinea Pig in their Cage,
Or do you mean DIY/Hutch/cage idea?
If so have you looked into C&C cages, they are made using Cubes and Correx and you build them yourself into any size or shape, they are a great price for their size but not suitable for outdoor use.
If you want a hutch, lots of people actually use wooden sheds and Doll Houses as Guinea Pig enclosures heres one of my fab animal youtubes who i actually first discovered this idea from -

You can create toys from all sorts of home ideas, My Pigs love hay and veg parcels made with the toilet cardboard roll, which i just stuff with the stuff.
Ive also gotten them the type of fabric tents that are advertised as for cats, They love them in the colder weather, they can just sniggle up in them,
or some people create snuggle beds for their Pigs, Made from fleece or even old Jean trouser legs. Like this -
 
Having a cage inside a shed is a great idea! I have always wanted C&C, but not keeping guinea pigs in the house. My parents are doing some garden renos and will have an old shed left over, so I can nab that, plus buying some C&C and making sure it is insolated! In about a year, ultimate guinea pig hutch, here I come lol! Now I will be all happy once I figure out how to stop the fighting!
 
Teazel 2017 said:
Yeah, the weights are as of Tuesday, they have a few toys down there, such as a food KBAB, an upside down litter tray, which they love to play with, and when it's not raining, one of their fabric tunnels. I pick them some grass everytime I have the chance, and I put a little on the ground downstairs, and some of it in a purposely made bag on a hook upstairs for them to play with.
Click to expand...

OK. So when did you last weigh them BEFORE Tuesday? How have they changed?

Have you looked at the behaviour guides? Have you checked each pig carefully for injuries?

You're still describing their behaviour as "fighting", but I'm not clear on whether they are "fighting having had a falling out and don't want to stay together" or "bickering a bit to maintain herd hierarchy, but overall the group is stable". These are two very different scenarios and you really do need to try and work out which one you're dealing with. If you have full on fighting then you may have no solution to stop it but but to divide your herd.

I'm also concerned that your smallest pig is small because she's being bullied and kept from the food - if she's putting on weight and she doesn't fell scrawny then its far more likely that she's just a petite young lady, but without any kind of weight history and any more info on her condition all we can really do is throw questions and suggestions your way.

Incidentally, there are 2 big problems with relying on fresh grass when you don't have a grass patch to put the run on and have to pick it manually - firstly that guinea pigs will eat (NEED to eat, in the absence of hay) a large volume of it and secondly that it starts to ferment very quickly after its picked and can make animals ill. How are things going with finding some hay for them?

Longer term it sounds like your parents' surplus shed might be a great solution for your pigs :). Now its just improving things until that can get sorted...
 
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