Hair pulling

Jerler

Jerler

Junior Guinea Pig
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The Netherlands
Hello fellow guinea lovers,

I have 3 guinea pigs at the moment. 1 5,5 year old, and 2 5 month old guinea pigs. All sows. I have the babies now for 3 months, and theyve been together in one place succesfully for 3 months as well.

But now, one of the babies has started to pull hair out of my older guinea pigs bum. My guinea pig doesnt tell her off, does squeek a little. Her bum has bald patches. It doesnt look sore though. I have caught my guinea pig litteraly pulling hair out of her and not nibbling it off. The older one is a Silkie, and the younger one pulling hair is an american crested and she is explosive in energy. (The 3rd one is a lunkarya and she is so calm, its terrifying haha). She also tends to bite alot (me as well) and kicks and jumps when I try to pet her in the cage (have tried all kinds of approaches). Outside of that she is a lovely guinea and seems to get along well with the other ones.

I was wondering til what point this is normal behavior? I have a bigger play area for them on the floor. I have started to put the younger one there by her self for short amounts of time during the day so she can diffuse some of the energy she has. In hopes this will take the edge off and she will stop pulling hair out of my older guinea pig.

I'm kind of looking for confirmation i'm doing the right thing, or for tips on how to handle this. I've had lots of guinea pigs and some barber pigs, but I havent had one that literally pulls hair out of the other one...
 
Jerler said:
Hello fellow guinea lovers,

I have 3 guinea pigs at the moment. 1 5,5 year old, and 2 5 month old guinea pigs. All sows. I have the babies now for 3 months, and theyve been together in one place succesfully for 3 months as well.

But now, one of the babies has started to pull hair out of my older guinea pigs bum. My guinea pig doesnt tell her off, does squeek a little. Her bum has bald patches. It doesnt look sore though. I have caught my guinea pig litteraly pulling hair out of her and not nibbling it off. The older one is a Silkie, and the younger one pulling hair is an american crested and she is explosive in energy. (The 3rd one is a lunkarya and she is so calm, its terrifying haha). She also tends to bite alot (me as well) and kicks and jumps when I try to pet her in the cage (have tried all kinds of approaches). Outside of that she is a lovely guinea and seems to get along well with the other ones.

I was wondering til what point this is normal behavior? I have a bigger play area for them on the floor. I have started to put the younger one there by her self for short amounts of time during the day so she can diffuse some of the energy she has. In hopes this will take the edge off and she will stop pulling hair out of my older guinea pig.

I'm kind of looking for confirmation i'm doing the right thing, or for tips on how to handle this. I've had lots of guinea pigs and some barber pigs, but I havent had one that literally pulls hair out of the other one...
Click to expand...

Hi

Social barbering, especially of long-haired adult companions is a not at all uncommon behaviour and is usually tolerated by the barbered piggy, as long as it doesn't hurt or injure the skin. Guinea pigs don't form bezoars (hair balls in the gut), so all you can do is keeping an eye on things. The hair will grow back again.

Your little one is practising a more rougher variant of barbering; possibly with some more dominance thrown in.

Here is more information on barbering and its different forms and rolls: Barbering (Eating Hair)
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

Social barbering, especially of long-haired adult companions is a not at all uncommon behaviour and is usually tolerated by the barbered piggy, as long as it doesn't hurt or injure the skin. Guinea pigs don't form bezoars (hair balls in the gut), so all you can do is keeping an eye on things. The hair will grow back again.

Your little one is practising a more rougher variant of barbering; possibly with some more dominance thrown in.

Here is more information on barbering and its different forms and rolls: Barbering (Eating Hair)
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply! When I read the information you´ve sent, it kind of matched with the story of your guinea Hywel. The only difference is is that I think my piggie isn´t really sick. I´ve noticed as well the "terror pig" (as i've now started to lovingly call her) Is also thugging on the hair of the smaller one.

I've just shaven my silkie a bit (not bald haha don't worry), as I do this in summer to keep her somewhat cooler, and I noticed terror pig doesnt thug at the hair anymore but now just nibbles it. I can live with that if my senior piggie is ok with that too. I guess I was just scared all the thugging would hurt my piggies and I wasn't sure if I should just let it be and keep an eye on it or it would mean seperating them.
 
Jerler said:
Thank you for your reply! When I read the information you´ve sent, it kind of matched with the story of your guinea Hywel. The only difference is is that I think my piggie isn´t really sick. I´ve noticed as well the "terror pig" (as i've now started to lovingly call her) Is also thugging on the hair of the smaller one.

I've just shaven my silkie a bit (not bald haha don't worry), as I do this in summer to keep her somewhat cooler, and I noticed terror pig doesnt thug at the hair anymore but now just nibbles it. I can live with that if my senior piggie is ok with that too. I guess I was just scared all the thugging would hurt my piggies and I wasn't sure if I should just let it be and keep an eye on it or it would mean seperating them.
Click to expand...

Piggies are very individual. It's great that she is down to just barbering, which is usually tolerated by the elders as it is a rather emphatic way for the youngster to say 'I am so happy that you have taken me on and given me a new home and identity'.

You may find these two article series I have written interesting:
- Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs (this follows the development of a piggy life from birth to death)
- The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society (this one looks at domestic guinea pig from a species perspective and how they function but also how our modern pet keeping impacts on their social wiring)
 
Thank you, that is very interesting! I will take some time to read it, I am very curious.

Besides the pulling and the barbering she is also licking the eye of the senior and overal being very sweet. Her emotions are all over the place it seems haha
 
Jerler said:
Thank you, that is very interesting! I will take some time to read it, I am very curious.

Besides the pulling and the barbering she is also licking the eye of the senior and overal being very sweet. Her emotions are all over the place it seems haha
Click to expand...

Eye licking is the equivalent of a piggy kiss; often from a lower ranked piggy but also very ill piggies can get kisses from their companions as a moral support affirmation of their affection.

The emotions are actually very consistent: you have a very, very happy youngster who is overjoyed to have been accepted and to belong to a group or guardian/teacher piggy. This is fundamental for the survival of any youngster. Feel blessed and just enjoy learning about the different ways guinea pigs express themselves.

Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context
 
I do feel blessed, I am happy to learn she is overjoyed! Even the hair pulling (and leaving a big bald patch) is a sign of a happy piggy?
 
Jerler said:
I do feel blessed, I am happy to learn she is overjoyed! Even the hair pulling (and leaving a big bald patch) is a sign of a happy piggy?
Click to expand...

Yes, it actually is. It is in the way of an over-excited kid who cannot stop and calm down. :)

Don't worry, it is going to settle down in due time. It is usually the initial overexcitement over feeling accepted and safe.
 
Hello,

I have an update concerning TerrorPig™ .... My seniors behind is healing and new hair is growing, but this morning I discovered 4 serious bite wounds on her body. One on her back thats the biggest, a superficial cut with blood. Behind her ears 2 smaller spots with a bit of blood, and one on her cheek. Now I dont believe my youngest really attacks her, I've observed her for a while and I see she is trying to groom but she just seems to not understand how that works. I also notice the same when I cuddle her. She doesnt "nibble" or feels with her teeth what is in front of her. She just approaches my finger, sniffs it, and bites immediatly. I've tried telling her off (in an animal friendly way), i've tried doing a high pitched sound that mimicks the pain sound of guinea pigs (previously this was succesfull with a guinea pig I had before) but with this one it just seems to rile her up more to bite. I've tried shoving her away a bit (in a animal friendly way, and not to hard). I've tried putting her on the playground by herself (bigger area) but also with the other 2. Nothing works. So now She is next to them in another cage. She can smell them, hear them, see them. She seems to be ok with it from the get go, munching on hay and not squeeking for them. My plan is to keep her in that seperate cage when I go to work or when I sleep. They can be together when I am there to supervise. My question is, is this a good approach to try? At least until she's out of puberty? Other than that she is a sweet guinea pig, wants to groom, grooms eyes of my eldest, just doesnt seem to understand she shouldnt be biting...
 
Jerler said:
Hello,

I have an update concerning TerrorPig™ .... My seniors behind is healing and new hair is growing, but this morning I discovered 4 serious bite wounds on her body. One on her back thats the biggest, a superficial cut with blood. Behind her ears 2 smaller spots with a bit of blood, and one on her cheek. Now I dont believe my youngest really attacks her, I've observed her for a while and I see she is trying to groom but she just seems to not understand how that works. I also notice the same when I cuddle her. She doesnt "nibble" or feels with her teeth what is in front of her. She just approaches my finger, sniffs it, and bites immediatly. I've tried telling her off (in an animal friendly way), i've tried doing a high pitched sound that mimicks the pain sound of guinea pigs (previously this was succesfull with a guinea pig I had before) but with this one it just seems to rile her up more to bite. I've tried shoving her away a bit (in a animal friendly way, and not to hard). I've tried putting her on the playground by herself (bigger area) but also with the other 2. Nothing works. So now She is next to them in another cage. She can smell them, hear them, see them. She seems to be ok with it from the get go, munching on hay and not squeeking for them. My plan is to keep her in that seperate cage when I go to work or when I sleep. They can be together when I am there to supervise. My question is, is this a good approach to try? At least until she's out of puberty? Other than that she is a sweet guinea pig, wants to groom, grooms eyes of my eldest, just doesnt seem to understand she shouldnt be biting...
Click to expand...

Hi

I am very sorry. She is very extreme and unusual in that.

I had success with my Brathlys (Lissie) - who ended up with me because after 6 months in rescue after having been found abandoned in a winter garden after the owners had moved out she still kept biting other piggies and humans - by using guinea pig body language to firstly establish my superior leadership by inviting her into my group and then using that authority to keep telling her off for any misbehaviours in guinea pig terms but still assuring her that I loved her and that she was still part of my herd.

She never fully stopped tweaking me but within two weeks she stopped biting hard and occasionally breaking the skin and within two months she had a husboar although it took quite a lot of patience and persistence. But she went on to have company and be loved part of a group for the rest of her life, even after Alan's sudden early death.

You may find these guides below helpful. I find that it really helps not to wait until guinea pigs learn human but to use their own gestures/body language and their own hierarchical group thinking to communicate with them. It's helped me with quite a few unbondable piggies with social issues that were stuck in rescue to give them a home and eventually find them company of their own kind.

Who is the Boss - Your Guinea Pig or You?

Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context
 
Thanks for your fast reply! Its hopeful to hear your lovely guinea made a turn for the better, and ended up living with a husboar and the herd. Its breaking my heart for her she does this, because its only giving her more distance (for now).

I am going to read your reccomended topics to see if there is stuff I can try, and to understand better. I do have to say I cuddle her occasionly and even though I lovingly call her TerrorPig, I do love her and I make sure she has love and everything she needs.
 
Jerler said:
Thanks for your fast reply! Its hopeful to hear your lovely guinea made a turn for the better, and ended up living with a husboar and the herd. Its breaking my heart for her she does this, because its only giving her more distance (for now).

I am going to read your reccomended topics to see if there is stuff I can try, and to understand better. I do have to say I cuddle her occasionly and even though I lovingly call her TerrorPig, I do love her and I make sure she has love and everything she needs.
Click to expand...

I find that it really helps to invite new piggies into 'my' group because that then gives them an identity and they then truly belong. New guinea pigs can feel safe. And it then gives me the position and authority to tell them what goes and what not.

The invitation is by gently fondling her ears - this is the mildest and friendliest dominance, which means 'I invite you to be part of my herd'.
For correction, you press the ears, firmly but not painfully and say clearly no.
You give assurance with your voice but also stroking her around the eyes (she has another scent glad just under the eyes) - that is the equivalent of a piggy kiss. Express your (gentle) disappointment but also give plenty of praise and encouragement with your voice while talking to her constantly.
The melody of my chatter mimics calmness and normality when I do it. Guinea pigs use vocalisations to express more their mood or where they are and how they are doing when separated. Interaction and communication is more via body language and their physical status via pheromones.

I hope that you will find that she will react more positively to you when you put yourself into a 'relationship' with her that she can understand.

If that doesn't work, then you may have to consider next door companionship if the skin biting doesn't stop. Barbering is normal, biting verges into bullying out of fear (fear-aggression) but in her case it can be out of lack of early socialisation.


hat does not work with piggies is being harsh with your voice and giving commands, like you would with a dog.
 
Thanks so much Wiebke! I will try that! I was already fondling the ears, and stroking/petting the area around the eye, out of habit though 😅 But its good to read thats a positive sign towards guinea pigs! I will definitely continue doing this.

I am not sure if she hasnt been early socialized, I bought her with her companion who is quite easy going ar 8 weeks old, they were together with 5 other female guinea pigs. Ofcourse I dont know what happened before those 8 weeks, but as soon as she was at my place she was with her companion and my senior.

Maybe something interesting that might have to do with it: the other little one seemed to have ring worm after a week. They all had to be quarantined together because it had spread already. I did petting sessions every day, but I couldnt really cuddle them. This lasted 3 weeks (that was very hard). Maybe this has something to do with it?

I also read in your attached link that putting her seperate for a maximum of 2 days (though right next to the others) might stop the hormone spike a bit. I am doing this right now and she seemed to be calmed down alot. She is herself, not shy or scared, eating and drinking. But she allows petting now and is less an explosion of energy. I am going to reintroduce them on natural grounds to see if they can start over :) She chatters quite alot when we cuddle so I make it a habit of telling her my day and asking about hers in different voice melodies :)

I will never though raise my voice and shout or command to her, she does not deserve to be treated that way. Only love in this house :)
 
Jerler said:
Thanks so much Wiebke! I will try that! I was already fondling the ears, and stroking/petting the area around the eye, out of habit though 😅 But its good to read thats a positive sign towards guinea pigs! I will definitely continue doing this.

I am not sure if she hasnt been early socialized, I bought her with her companion who is quite easy going ar 8 weeks old, they were together with 5 other female guinea pigs. Ofcourse I dont know what happened before those 8 weeks, but as soon as she was at my place she was with her companion and my senior.

Maybe something interesting that might have to do with it: the other little one seemed to have ring worm after a week. They all had to be quarantined together because it had spread already. I did petting sessions every day, but I couldnt really cuddle them. This lasted 3 weeks (that was very hard). Maybe this has something to do with it?

I also read in your attached link that putting her seperate for a maximum of 2 days (though right next to the others) might stop the hormone spike a bit. I am doing this right now and she seemed to be calmed down alot. She is herself, not shy or scared, eating and drinking. But she allows petting now and is less an explosion of energy. I am going to reintroduce them on natural grounds to see if they can start over :) She chatters quite alot when we cuddle so I make it a habit of telling her my day and asking about hers in different voice melodies :)

I will never though raise my voice and shout or command to her, she does not deserve to be treated that way. Only love in this house :)
Click to expand...

You are on the right track and will bring her out in due time. :tu:
 
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