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Hand feeding/baytril causing diarrhoea?

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Isobel

Isobel

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Both pigs are (WERE) on Baytril for URI. They were eating very little so hand fed them baby food(apple) last night and soaked pellets with cooked carrot this morning. Peppa had diarrhoea in the evening. Right now they both have it. I give them water trough the syringe. Each received around 50ml of water today. Peppa is doing weird stretches and trying to eat hay whislt Nela is napping with her eyes shut.
It's Sunday, everything is closed and I haven't got any transport to the vet until tomorrow.

Is there anything else I can do apart from giving water with hay until the diarrhoea stops to then introduce veggies/hand feed again?
 
Hi,

Is it diarrhoea or wet poos. If it is completely water, eg diarrhoea then you must get to the vets ASAP. If it is wet poos then take off all veg and try to get them to eat as much hay as possible.

Do you have any probiotic or fibreplex in the house?
 
It's bit of both. Sometimes it's wet poo still in the shape of 'normal poo' but it's never just 'liquid form'. Peppa is not in her bed, she settled down next to hot(warm) water bottle. Refusing to eat hay from hand, or even the cucumber skin. Nela is now alert, trying to eat her own poo and just had the cucumber. Haven't got any probiotic or fibreflex at home, and living in the middle of nowhere is not very helpful either. Do they have human probiotics (but not diary) in boots or sainsbury's? That's all I could get for today.
 
Isobel said:
It's bit of both. Sometimes it's wet poo still in the shape of 'normal poo' but it's never just 'liquid form'. Peppa is not in her bed, she settled down next to hot(warm) water bottle. Refusing to eat hay from hand, or even the cucumber skin. Nela is now alert, trying to eat her own poo and just had the cucumber. Haven't got any probiotic or fibreflex at home, and living in the middle of nowhere is not very helpful either. Do they have human probiotics (but not diary) in boots or sainsbury's? That's all I could get for today.
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I wouln't use human probiotics.

Do you have any other pigs? If so you can make poo soup...

Can you get to your emergency vets today?
 
Try grass from the garden & at least get some pellet mash into them, it's so important to keep their gut moving. If they've had a reaction to the baytril I would want them seen sooner rather than later. Weird they would both have reaction though, maybe it's part of the illness? What dose baytril were they on?
 
Antibiotic intolerance (if that's what it is) can be critical. I'm currently trying my hardest to help one of my boys who went downhill rapidly after reacting badly to antibiotics which he was given on Thursday morning. I've since been to the vet twice. Jerry lost interest in food around 3pm yesterday and by 8pm I was rushing to get him some medicine as I feared the worst.

Please don't give any human medicines.
 
I heard of giving them their own poo, but I only have Peppa and Nela and since they were both on baytril it's no use really.

Apparently pellets can worsen their condition as they contribute to growth of e.coli bacteria when they have diarrhoea? Shall I try carrot pure? Is it possible for either of these foods to make them worse?

They had 0,2ml twice a day for 5 days. Peppa is still due for one more dose, Nela for 2 doses, but I have discontinued.

The vet I've seen didn't really impress me with his knowledge, he didn't even mention anything about probiotics, hand feeding, and possible side effects of baytril so if it wasn't for me looking for things on internet I'd probably assume this is 'ok' for them to react this way, because 'the vet said'

Peppa is producing soft poo, not watery.

Jerrybelly, what did the vet said? What are you doing to help?
 
If you're having to hand feed them then they need something with a high fibre content, its probably the fruit and veg purees that have caused this.

Please call your vet, they need probiotocs (fibreplex would be ideal for this) and they should have some in stock
 
He's had gut stimulant injections, and is now on oral stimulants. He's also on metacam (but was on that anyway). I'm syringe feeding him a recovery mix with added probiotic. Jerry is different though as he doesn't have diarrahoea - he's struggling to produce any poos at all. Jerry's symptoms are really very different, but the treatment is only something that can be gained at a vet. Both dirrahoea and lack of eating are very difficult to treat yourself.
 
I didn't give them any fruit and veg purees. Only the cooked carrot once and pellets mash. They're currently eating the grass, but I have to be careful with this as it's their first grass this year. I'm preparing excel nuggets soaked in water for later. Would that be good for now?

I'm also calling vet to ask for the fibreplex, hopefully it won't be a problem since it's available without prescription.
 
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Do they have it for part of the day or the whole day aswell? My vet said to be mindful that sometimes treatment handling can cause stress which can cause soft poos for a while. I used to get soft poos about 5 hours after treatments, then the odd hour of fine poos.
 
Isobel said:
I didn't give them any fruit and veg purees. Only the cooked carrot once and pellets mash. They're currently eating the grass, but I have to be careful with this as it's their first grass this year. I'm preparing excel nuggets soaked in water for later. Would that be good for now?

I'm also calling vet to ask for the fibreplex, hopefully it won't be a problem since it's available without prescription.
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You mentioned you used apple baby food hence my assumption that it was a puree? Also GPs shouldn't eat cooked vegetables (or canned or frozen - fresh only).

Any luck with the fibreplex?
 
They both had it all day today. Also I've noticed they keep on eating anything they produce straight away so after cleaning their cage this morning it's still 'poo-free'

I just fed each pig 10 1ml syringes of Excel burgers soaked in water. They actually enjoyed it. Even Nela was happy to swallow and just spit eveyrthing out. I work out this feeding 'plan' for now.

15.45 10ml feed

19.45 14ml feed

23.45 14ml feed

3.45 14ml feed

7.45 14ml feed


17.00 15ml drink

21.00 15ml drink

24.00 15ml drink

04.00 15ml drink

08.00 15ml drink
 
Isobel said:
They both had it all day today. Also I've noticed they keep on eating anything they produce straight away so after cleaning their cage this morning it's still 'poo-free'

I just fed each pig 10 1ml syringes of Excel burgers soaked in water. They actually enjoyed it. Even Nela was happy to swallow and just spit eveyrthing out. I work out this feeding 'plan' for now.

15.45 10ml feed

19.45 14ml feed

23.45 14ml feed

3.45 14ml feed

7.45 14ml feed


17.00 15ml drink

21.00 15ml drink

24.00 15ml drink

04.00 15ml drink

08.00 15ml drink
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I wouldn't syringe them extra water. You're soaking the food so they'll be getting extra moisture from that, and they have water freely available in their cage, so they shouldn't need additional drinks. Too much moisture will also be contributing to their wet poos.

Are they eating for themselves? Hay/veg/pellets?

Are they definitely producing and eating their poos? The reason I am concerned is that they normally produce two types...the ones they eat (that you rarely see, only if they're not eating them because they're unwell), and the "second time round poo" that is the normal guinea pig poo. If they're not pooing, they need to see a vet ASAP. If they're ducking under and eating lots, they definitely need a good quality probiotic.
 
You are putting a lot of water into these pigs, maybe that is what is causing the loose stools? Obviously any water lost through diarrhoea needs to be replaced but this seems a lot of syringed water along with pureed cooked veg (high water content) & mash pellets (also high water content). 0.2ml x2 daily is not a high dose of baytril unless your pigs are very small so I would be surprised if this is antibiotic intolerance. Again, it would be very odd to get this in 2 pigs at the same time & I'm sure you would expect to see it soon after the first dose rather than at the end of the course. How heavy are your pigs? We are currently dosing 0.6ml 2.5% baytril ONCE daily for a 800g piggie (pretty much top whack dose).

Personally, I would stop all this water syringing & give them some hay, grass, normal dry pellets & some lower water content veg such as a bit of broccoli. See if this improves their poos. If you are realy worried though then get to an out of hours vet.
 
They were only fed baby apple food once, 1ml each. The plan was produced according to the guide to hand feeding that I found. So it seems like everybody has different opinion. Peppa is not eating for herself at all, she had tiny bit of grass but refusing hay. Nela had all the grass and eats hay but it's nowhere near how much they normally eat. Peppa will only eat the lettuce so not ideal when having diarrhoea. I'll have the probiotic tomorrow.
 
They have been fed again around 10ml of soaked pellets each. Peppa is trying to have a nap but she appears to have upset stomach and keeps sort of throwing herself around and stretching. Also her abdomen seems to be swollen, but I don't know how to check for the 'hollow sound' typical for bloat? Nela is just sitting in the corner of the cage, depressed. Neither of them eats on their own. There are no solid poos in the cage, they still have diarrhoea.

They'll be given the probiotic tomorrow. Shall I give Peppa the Infacol too? I'm trying to keep them both moving.

I don't want to head to the vet before getting some opinions from people aware of guinea pig's health issued etc, so I can mention them to the vet. The vet is partially the reason Nela is suffering right now, as she was not chesty when the treatment was started. I'm genuinely scared he will give them something that will make them worse, and I'll be stupid enough again to obey because he is a vet so he should be correct.
 
Hey, sorry your guineas are still not right. I would find an exotics vet with experience in small mammals & see them right away, don't wait for forum advice. In your situation I would only entrust my pigs to my exotics vet who is the expert. Guineas can go downhill really quickly if you get into a situation of gut stasis & the swollen abdomen you mention is a concern.

Please find a good vet & get them seen.

Best wishes,

shiny
 
Can only echo what shiny has said - bloat and gut stasis can be fatal.
Please get your babies seen by a vet asap - have you stopped the Baytril ? I had a boar who had horrendous side effects from this until the vet changed the antibiotic to Septrin.
 
Isobel said:
They have been fed again around 10ml of soaked pellets each. Peppa is trying to have a nap but she appears to have upset stomach and keeps sort of throwing herself around and stretching. Also her abdomen seems to be swollen, but I don't know how to check for the 'hollow sound' typical for bloat? Nela is just sitting in the corner of the cage, depressed. Neither of them eats on their own. There are no solid poos in the cage, they still have diarrhoea.

They'll be given the probiotic tomorrow. Shall I give Peppa the Infacol too? I'm trying to keep them both moving.

I don't want to head to the vet before getting some opinions from people aware of guinea pig's health issued etc, so I can mention them to the vet. The vet is partially the reason Nela is suffering right now, as she was not chesty when the treatment was started. I'm genuinely scared he will give them something that will make them worse, and I'll be stupid enough again to obey because he is a vet so he should be correct.
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This has gone beyond anything you can manage at home with various remedies. They need to see a vet ASAP.
 
If her tummy is feeling bloated some gentle massage will help move the gas.

Bloat would normally indicate no poo. But you are getting wet poos off both yes? They will really need to be seen by a vet. If you are not confident with your current on it is worth ringing around to find a cavy savy one. What town do you live in? Someone may be able to suggest one nearby.

I would recommend getting some fibre plex it works two fold, one it's a probiotic and two it contains fibre so it will hopefully firm up poo's you can get it online off several websites including Vetuk and amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-Fi...BWDC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362346429&sr=8-1

Have you contacted your emergency vet service?
 
I stopped Baytril this morning. I can get them to the same vet in the morning, or the exotic vet in the afternoon as it's over 30 miles and I haven't got transportation. Where can I get Dioclam? or is there any other human diarrhoea tablet safe for pigs?

Shall keep hand feeding or stop?
 
Isobel said:
I stopped Baytril this morning. I can get them to the same vet in the morning, or the exotic vet in the afternoon as it's over 30 miles and I haven't got transportation. Where can I get Dioclam? or is there any other human diarrhoea tablet safe for pigs?

Shall keep hand feeding or stop?
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Please don't attempt any human medicine. It may very well not be safe and could be very dangerous.

Are they eating on there own? Please weigh them as weight is the one of the best indications of what's going in... Are they eating hay?
 
They won't touch anything. No hay, grass, veggies (although they have been cut), pellets or water on their own.
 
Isobel said:
They won't touch anything. No hay, grass, veggies (although they have been cut), pellets or water on their own.
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They are obviously both feeling very poorly.

I have just re-read your posts. It is definitely wet poo not diarrhoea? Wet poo's still have some form where as diarrhoea would be water. I can't stress how important a vets visit is at this stage especially if it is full blown diarrhoea.
 
Spoke to the vet. He sounded like he had no idea what I was talking about. And offered me an appointment in the morning, refused and insisted on having them seen straight away.
 
We had an appointment around 11pm yesterday! The vet listened to the chest, apparently Peppa is still a bit wheezy but he didn't do anything about it. Took their temperature which was slightly higher than normal. He gave us 4 sachet of Supreme Science Recovery to give 5ml each 4 times a day, which adds up to 20ml of feed over 24hours. The feeding guide states that one sachet - 70ml is what the guinea pig needs daily. I'm giving them 10ml every 4 hours, so they will each receive 60ml daily, otherwise I'd be throwing some of it away as it can only be kept for 12 hours. They were also given Protexin Professional to add 1 pinch 2xdaily, so I added around 1/5 of sachet into their feed. And lastly he give us Rehydration Support from Royal Canin, and said to mainly focus on administering this, but I haven't found any research on this related to pigs so not sure if I should continue in case it's not good for them?

I went to sleep at 5am, they had their feed at 00.00, 4.00 and 8.30. Peppa was almost normal during the night a bit of sleeping and hunching up, her poos seem to be more firm, but still not solid. She was in fact eating a tiny amount of hay this morning and is now napping. Nela was having stomach cramps/ abdominal muscle spasms all night, she was trying to sleep but it kept waking her up. She still not eating on her own, I can't judge the poo as there wasn't any in her bed. Her bum seems to be occasionally covered in blood but the vet didn't seem concerned about it.

Next feed at 12.30:)

Also I'm going to order some more hand feeding solution as only have 3 sachets left and the price at the vet is horrendous, **** 300% more than online. Shall I continue with recovery or go for Critical Care? I'll order ProC Probiotic to use in a long run, for around a week or two after Protexin is finished. Is there any point in ordering Fibreplex too? The vet doesn't have any in stock
 
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Thanks for the update. Well done for perservering with the vet and getting them seen last night, i understand that with lack of transport it is difficult. Your piggies certainly seem to be going through it at them moment, poor little things. If it is the baytril thats upset their tummies it should be getting out there system now if the last dose was yesterday.

Science Recovery or Critical care is a matter of choice as they are both syringe feeds. I am not familiar with either Protexin Professional but from the looks of it, it is a probiotic - This will help the Gut Flora.

Peppa's poos returning to normal is a good sign, this should hopefully improve. I would also get some fibreplex a little of this will help Peppa's poo's firm up more.

Alarm bells are ringing on Nela, there should not be any blood at all and the fact the vet was uncorncerned wouldn't please me if I were taking my pet to them. Do you have a Cavy Savy vet near you? Please, keep a very close eye on her, should she deteriote you must get her to a vet ASAP, the blood is a cause for concern.

I am keeping all fingers crossed for your girls
 
I'm really pleased that they went to the vet :) It is very tiring looking after a sick piggy, I was handfeeding at 3.30am too :(

20ml of Recovery a day isn't enough if the pigs are not eating anything themselves. I've been giving Jerry around 15ml per feed and he is nibbling bits on his own too. Recovery satchets are good, but they don't have the vitamin c added like Critical Care does. Keep the Recovery as thick as possible - don't add too much water.

Weigh your pigs daily and keep a note of their weight.
 
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