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How Fast Should Baytril Work? Bulging Eye And Chewing Problem

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helen105281 said:
The original poster is not in the UK.
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I am actually tempted to fly to the UK with Ampeeri :hmm:At least I hope I could!

The two last vets I've seen are probably the two most cavy savvy vets we have here in Finland, and they actually consulted each other the last time I saw the other. But I guess they are not as advanced as Simon. For example, one of the vets mentioned eye removal surgery, but continued to list all the ways it can go wrong and not help, and concluded that they wouldn't try that. I understood that some members here have had eye removal done to their pigs, and that the surgeries have been successful.
 
He must be eating something for himself if his weight is remaining stable as a pig that is not eating at all needs 120ml a day to keep their weight stable. I think there is scope to increase his pain relief as he is only having it once a day. My dental pigs have all been on 0.2ml dog metacam twice a day. Would your vet consider increasing the dose?
 
Powerpigs said:
I am actually tempted to fly to the UK with Ampeeri :hmm:At least I hope I could!

The two last vets I've seen are probably the two most cavy savvy vets we have here in Finland, and they actually consulted each other the last time I saw the other. But I guess they are not as advanced as Simon. For example, one of the vets mentioned eye removal surgery, but continued to list all the ways it can go wrong and not help, and concluded that they wouldn't try that. I understood that some members here have had eye removal done to their pigs, and that the surgeries have been successful.
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Simon is always happy to speak to other vets, is that something your vets would be open to doing?
 
helen105281 said:
He must be eating something for himself if his weight is remaining stable as a pig that is not eating at all needs 120ml a day to keep their weight stable. I think there is scope to increase his pain relief as he is only having it once a day. My dental pigs have all been on 0.2ml dog metacam twice a day. Would your vet consider increasing the dose?
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Ampeeri only started on the dog Metacam last week, before that he was off of any Metacam for a while. I didn't see any change in him after starting the Metacam, so I don't know how much a bigger dose could help. I'm about to call my vet today to get an appointment for next week for consultation and possibly yet another round of Zithromax, so I can ask her opinion on the Metacam dose.

helen105281 said:
Simon is always happy to speak to other vets, is that something your vets would be open to doing?
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I can also ask this. At least the other vet was really interested in this forum when I told her I got the Zithromax recommendation from here. She even asked me to write down the address to have a look :)
 
I can't believe it! Just as I was able to breathe a bit due to Ampeeri's weight remaining stable for a week, he has gone and dropped roughly 50 g in a course of two days! Today morning he was only 887 g. :help:

Yesterday morning (Wednesday) the cage was full of odd poos, they were clumped together like impacted, and squashed to the cage floor. No sign of the small soft poos Ampeeri has been producing, these poos are now completely formless, but not full runny diarrhea. They are like thick paste with no form. A bit of it has been on Ampeeri's bum every time I picked him up yesterday and today. During the day some more paste poo appeared, not as much as during the night, and today morning (Thursday) there was again some, but not so much as before. And today morning Ampeeri's weight was significantly lower, but looking back, clearly the drop has already started yesterday.

What has changed? On Tuesday I didn't manage to syringe him as much food as I have otherwise, because he was extra wriggly and I simply ran out of time to syringe him more. But also on Tuesday I spotted him nibbling on some hay, and he even ran to the cage bars for some treats when I got home from work. On Wednesday he again ate a bit more fresh veg than before, say a thin slice of cucumber and sweet pepper more.

I have a vet check for him on next Wednesday to renew his prescription, but obviously I need to call the clinic now for advice. It's just that my vet won't be there until next week, but hopefully the other vets can say something. I'm starting to lose my mind over worrying for my boy :no:
 
It could be the Zithromax as all pigs I have had on it in the last few months have had phases of poo just as you describe. I have had others in the past who haven't reacted at all though. Do you have any probiotics? or another pig who's poos you could use to make poo soup? I would still try to get as much feed as you can into him even though he is nibbling for himself.
 
Ampeeri has eaten a lot of his mate's poos, so I haven't given him any poo soup. When I do poo patrol, the normal poos are almost gone so I know he must eat plenty of them. Ampeeri even follows his mate around and eats straight from the bum! When I told my vet this, she said it's enough and thus I don't have any probiotics. I don't even know if we have rodent-specific probiotics here, the vet said something like she wouldn't know which probiotic could be used. I can always order online, but it takes around a week and a half to arrive.

And edit: I'm still syringe feeding him as usual, even though I see him eating something on his own.
 
That shows his guts are upset then if he is eating them for himself. Hopefully that will help. I was told by a vet recently that poos are better than probiotics anyway. Great that you are still syringe feeding.
 
Yes, he has been eating them for at least a couple of weeks now, wise piggy! My vet also said that poos are the best probiotic there is.

Thank you for your reply, I'm hoping that this is just a phase of poo like your pigs had.

I'm going to keep on syringe feeding as long as it takes, even though my days are now practically syringe, work, syringe, syringe, sleep, repeat. Anything for my boy to get him feel better!
 
Ampeeri took a turn to the worse during the weekend :no: Yesterday he just sat still for the whole day, and only after his evening Metacam he started to move around a bit. I got a new box of Supreme Science Recovery during the week, and Ampeeri was absolutely loving it and I couldn't even syringe as fast as he would have liked, but yesterday he didn't seem to like it at all. I phoned the vet's clinic just now asking if I could give him Metacam twice a day, but this vet refused! I didn't talk to my usual vet, because she won't be available until Wednesday when we have an appointment with her. I only got permission to increase the dose from 0.2 ml to 0.25 ml, but it seems to me that the Metacam isn't affecting for the whole 24 hrs as it should. I'm afraid that my poor boy is in pain and that I can't help him...
 
I'm sorry he has gone downhill. I wish vets would take the pigs' metabolism into account. As they have agreed to increase the dose slightly is there any way you could split it so that he is having 0.125 each end of the day, that way you aren't going against your vet and giving more but he is getting it split to cover the whole 24 hours.
 
This vet I spoke to clearly just read from a manual of some sorts, I could hear her searching through pages, and she's not as cavy savvy as the vet we are seeing on Wednesday. Thank you for your suggestion, I will split the dose. It should be easy, as I'm already giving Ampeeri his Zithromax every 12 hrs. Hopefully his tummy won't be upset though, until now I have kept a gap of couple of hours between the antibiotic and the painkiller, but now I'll have to give them at the same time to be able to keep the exact 12 hrs interval.
 
I have given them together before and it is not usually an issue though all pigs are different.
 
Ok, good to know. Hopefully Ampeeri will tolerate it as well. At least he gets his Zantac at the same time to protect his tummy.

I can't possibly thank you enough, Helen. I'm so upset all the time for Ampeeri, and I'm really grateful you have answered my questions again and again and offered your insight. I really appreciate it!
 
No problem, just shout if you need anything else. I hope the split dose helps and the other vet eventually agrees to the higher dose twice a day.
 
I'm starting to feel I'm losing this battle, and also questioning myself if it is right to continue treatment. Yesterday Ampeeri was as bad as Sunday. Most of the time he now looks so poorly, that I feel the kindest thing to do would be letting him go. But then he suddenly perks up, trods away and even begs for treats. Yesterday despite his general condition being so unwell, he all of a sudden during lap time ate big pieces of bell pepper and apple, and even managed much better bites from them than in weeks. He hasn't had any appetite for lap time veg for a while, but now he was really into them. Also his eye doesn't seem to bulge as much as it has. He is still losing weight, now down to 815 g, since I haven't managed to syringe feed him as much since Sunday, he is refusing more than ever and almost panics if I try to force the syringe into his mouth. But then this morning he ate a bit completely voluntarily.

Tomorrow I have the vet appointment, and I'm quite sure she will suggest pts, as she already said she would two weeks ago if we don't see great improvement with Zithromax. I'm fearing that even the Zithromax might be working, Ampeeri's weight loss is starting to get the better of him and affecting his general condition too much. I really want to make the right decision, but I'm just so unsure. Seeing Ampeeri as he is most of the time now is heartbreaking, and I feel it's time. But then he goes and acts so much better for a while that I start to hope he might still get better eventually. I'm really torn what to do, fearing tomorrow is coming too soon and too late, and I'd really like to have a decision ready before we go to the vet's. I'm so afraid of losing Ampeeri, but also anxious not to make him suffer any more than he has to.
 
This is such a hard decision and one that only you can make. I always look at whether there is quality of life and if they are able to do all things piggy when I have to make a decision like this. I had a pig a few years ago that though we were treating his actual illness his weight loss was what made us lose him in the end as he started to shut down.

The other option would be to stop the Zithromax and see if his behaviour changes but I am not sure, see what the vet thinks?
 
I know that I'm the only one who can make this decision, and that's why I'm terrified of making it in case I do a wrong one. It's also my first time, as Ampeeri and his mate are my first pigs and first pets. Right now, most of the time it looks like there's no quality of life, as Ampeeri just stays still and miserable in his hidey. But then during the occasional moments he looks like he has not given up yet, and I fear I would be denying him the chance to get better. He's also only two years and a couple of months old, it feels so unfair for him when he should be at the height of his life.

I will discuss all this tomorrow at the vet's, but I want to consider all options beforehand too, not to be surprised of the outcome of tomorrow's appointment.
 
How much weight as he lost in total since his illness started?
 
Before all this, he was roughly 1280 g. So current total weight loss would be 465 g, which I know is huge.
 
That is a lot, if you had said less then it would have encouraged me a bit more but with a loss that size I think he will start to shut down if he carries on losing weight. It is so hard when they are showing that bit of fight.
 
That's what I'm afraid of. The vet also said something about some inner organ of theirs (can't remember which one, maybe liver?) that accumulates stress when pigs lose a lot of weight fast, and that damage would be irreversible and when the organ has had enough, it would be the end for the piggy.

I just hate being uncertain, I really really really want to do what's best for my dear Ampeeri.
 
Not much that I've seen, but I've been at the office though. He nibbled a whole piece of bell pepper this morning, and some more of that and some apple in the afternoon. I've syringed him roughly 15 ml of recovery food, and maybe 7 to 10 ml of water. He was really thirsty especially in the morning. In the afternoon he was also chasing Voltti around for some poos, and he ate a few.
 
OK it is good that he can eat for himself. He isn't having enough to keep him going though which does explain some of the weight loss.
 
Yes, and as I said his biting even seems better than before, and difficulty in biting and chewing was his first sympton when all this started. I haven't managed as much syringe feeding as before, because he now panics so much if I force him. For a couple of days he's only had as much as he is willing to take, which would explain the incresing speed of weight loss.
 
Yes, the same soft paste like as I described before, and also some small poos too.
 
Can you get hold of some of the healthy poos from the cagemate and mix these with water to make what we call poo soup and syringe feed this? - when my Noodles was on zithromax for her jaw abcess she was constantly chasing her cagemate and trying to eat his poos direct from his bum - this is sometiomes there way of trying to instinctively re-balance there gut when it has been upset by antibiotics - are you giving pro biotics daily ? My Noodles dropped to 800 gs from 1200 g while this was all going on,but the zithromax did sort out the abcess.
 
I did mix some poos into Ampeeri's syringe food and gave that mix over the weekend, because I noticed he wasn't eating his mate's poos as he has been. Bu this obviously made him hate the food and now I'm not mixing them. My vet originally said that it's enough when Ampeeri is eating the healthy poos himself, and I wasn't given any probiotics, and I'm not sure if we even have some available here.

The poo mix actually seemed to help, Ampeeri was having discomfort passing the soft poos, but now his poo is a bit better, and now he's again eating the mate's healthy poos.

It's really encouraging to hear that your Noodles dropped so much weight but pulled through in the end!
 
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