Info from Gorgeous Guineas re: fleeces

[daftscotslass]

I interpreted this comment about the use of cheap fleece made for human use to be most definitely anti-fleece (and anti fleece users!):
"Unfortunately however appealing or cute this may look, or easy and acceptable to maintain in the Human home, it is not providing the needs as outlined by the Animal Welfare Act. If your equine bedding (or the like) does not fit in with your house, then maybe guinea pigs don't either?"

That quote has left me disappointed in both of those people to be honest, I had a lot of faith in Chrissie. It's a big assumption they've made - that people who use fleece don't allow their animals the opportunity to exhibit normal behaviour patterns. I use fleece because my guinea pigs have been cleaner, happier and healthier on it than they were on shavings and unfortunately I'm not lucky enough to have unlimited funds for bedding or time/space to dispose of excessive amounts of bedding waste.

Well... I've been using fleece for I think 8 years now. In that time I've lost count of the number of pigs who've passed through my doors, both temporary and permanent residents. I know of not one who hasn't been offered the opportunity to forage, hide away, popcorn, run laps, tunnel and gnaw. Most owners who keep their guinea pigs on fleece who I know are the same. I resent the implication that keeping guinea pigs on fleece in any way deprives them of anything. Heck, mine are on fleece and at the moment you can't see them for hay.

I invested a lot of money in VetBed at one point and it was in the bin within two months. It was no better at wicking away urine and I found that hay, food and faeces were stuck between the fibres within days. When it came out the wash there was still stuff stuck to it.

Big shame, I think there was a lot of scope to give people opportunities to make informed choices about bedding (and the way they care for bedding they use) by writing that but instead it read as patronising.

 

[Wiebke]

That quote has left me disappointed in both of those people to be honest, I had a lot of faith in Chrissie. It's a big assumption they've made - that people who use fleece don't allow their animals the opportunity to exhibit normal behaviour patterns. I use fleece because my guinea pigs have been cleaner, happier and healthier on it than they were on shavings and unfortunately I'm not lucky enough to have unlimited funds for bedding or time/space to dispose of excessive amounts of bedding waste.

Well... I've been using fleece for I think 8 years now. In that time I've lost count of the number of pigs who've passed through my doors, both temporary and permanent residents. I know of not one who hasn't been offered the opportunity to forage, hide away, popcorn, run laps, tunnel and gnaw. Most owners who keep their guinea pigs on fleece who I know are the same. I resent the implication that keeping guinea pigs on fleece in any way deprives them of anything. Heck, mine are on fleece and at the moment you can't see them for hay.

I invested a lot of money in VetBed at one point and it was in the bin within two months. It was no better at wicking away urine and I found that hay, food and faeces were stuck between the fibres within days. When it came out the wash there was still stuff stuck to it.

Big shame, I think there was a lot of scope to give people opportunities to make informed choices about bedding (and the way they care for bedding they use) by writing that but instead it read as patronising.

I completely agree with you, daftscotslass - mine have plenty of large hay trays to forage to their heart's content while living on fleece, which has been the best bedding I have found so far.

Anyway, I can only say that my Tribe wouldn't exhibit so many natural group behaviours if they were not living in an environment that would allow them to live as a happy, fully functioning herd.

It is a pity that a big opportunity has been lost to provide neutral information about the pros and cons, so guinea pig owners can make their own informed decision.

 

[JoBo]

That is exactly right Wibke its all about personal choice. I have tried just about everything for my indoor herd and for me personally Vetbed is the best, It is super absorbant and easy to maintain, i only have issues with it when i have to shake it out to put in in the washing machine and get covered in hay and poo lol. I wash it a t 40 degrees as i beleive that soap powder is so advanced now that it is not necessary to wash at high tempratures.

I really hate it when people decide to get on their soap box and cause a panic and make conciencious guinea pig owners question themselves.

You all know what is good for your pigs and i am sure like me you have tested and tried everything, so take no notice and carry on doing what you are doing xx

 

[Guinea pig slave]

That is exactly right Wibke its all about personal choice. I have tried just about everything for my indoor herd and for me personally Vetbed is the best, It is super absorbant and easy to maintain, i only have issues with it when i have to shake it out to put in in the washing machine and get covered in hay and poo lol. I wash it a t 40 degrees as i beleive that soap powder is so advanced now that it is not necessary to wash at high tempratures.

I really hate it when people decide to get on their soap box and cause a panic and make conciencious guinea pig owners question themselves.

You all know what is good for your pigs and i am sure like me you have tested and tried everything, so take no notice and carry on doing what you are doing xx

Agree with you on this, I personally prefer vetbed. It does have the pitfalls of washing as I can only fit two pieces in at one time and with 15 piggies...rolleyes I just stagger the cleaning out routine though so I'm not swamped with the washing. Do mine on 40 degrees too and it comes up beautiful. I used fleeces but it took forever to do the pens, the vet bed I just roll from one end to the other, pop into the washing bags and hey ho, much quicker for me.
My piggies are healthy, have never had a skin issue and certainly forage in the masses of hay they have twice a day, rarely sleep on it, prefer the hidey's etc. - their pens are pristine after cleaning...for all of 5 minutes but what the heck |) Happy piggies, happy me

 

[LordBernieBouffant]

I don't know what to make of this really I have used various bedding over my piggie owning years, from wood shavings to just plain paper & hay. With my new piggies I am trying fleece & so far so good, yes you have to wash a lot, I change the whole lot twice a week, do a 40 degree wash because I am worried it will shrink otherwise. It is always spotless when it comes out & I dry it outside. Yes it is a little bit more maintenance but over the years I had a few piggies that by digging under their hay have had hay pokes in their eyes. I still give them a pile of hay but after eating they trot off to their hideys or just lie on the fleece for a snooze, they clearly love it I put them in a pop up run with just newspaper when I clean the C & C out & you can see they don't like it as much rolleyes

I will add that when on newspaper & hay mine did have the odd yellowing tummy from where wee sat on top of the paper, so I can't see why fleece would be more likely to cause any problems at all!

I agree with this. It gets very confusing now ?/

I would say that 99% of the guinea pigs in my home town are bedded on shavings (I have had 50 staying with me over the last 8 months), with no problems at all. Mine don't suit it and I tried the hemp stuff, but it was awfully hard and pointy and they hated sitting on it - that's why they went for the hay. Megazorb is great for them, but fleece does seem an lot better - although more time consuming and probably more costly as I wash at 60 degrees (it didn't shrink BTW) - but they sit on that in preference to the hay boxes where they have the opportunity to burrow under it.

Newspaper is horrible - all mine ended up with wet bottoms, especially the long haired ones, despite a good shorty bum clip! I would also worry about it with the prints used - are we supposed to buy "special" newspapers only :^-

I'm happy with the fleece at the moment - it's dry (no wet botties at all) and my piggies are really happy - their coats are improving dramatically and my little Lily is so content to be back on that rather than the Megazorb, she's popcorning everywhere

All confusing mallethead

Jo x

 

[Amanda1801]

I agree with this. It gets very confusing now ?/

I would say that 99% of the guinea pigs in my home town are bedded on shavings (I have had 50 staying with me over the last 8 months), with no problems at all. Mine don't suit it and I tried the hemp stuff, but it was awfully hard and pointy and they hated sitting on it - that's why they went for the hay. Megazorb is great for them, but fleece does seem an lot better - although more time consuming and probably more costly as I wash at 60 degrees (it didn't shrink BTW) - but they sit on that in preference to the hay boxes where they have the opportunity to burrow under it.

Newspaper is horrible - all mine ended up with wet bottoms, especially the long haired ones, despite a good shorty bum clip! I would also worry about it with the prints used - are we supposed to buy "special" newspapers only :^-I'm happy with the fleece at the moment - it's dry (no wet botties at all) and my piggies are really happy - their coats are improving dramatically and my little Lily is so content to be back on that rather than the Megazorb, she's popcorning everywhere

All confusing mallethead

Jo x

I've used fleece and vet bed with Cameo since I got her, and never had a problem with wet bums. When she was in the vets, she had to be bedded on newspaper with incontinence pads on top so they could monitor her haematuria, and she was covered in urine. I bathed her at work on Sunday before she came home, she's back on vet bed now and has a sparkley clean bum!

 

[alisont]

I read the email with interest, won't change how I keep my gang but I was interested in how to wash fleece, I use a 30 or 40 degree wash for fleeces, my clothing, my bedding and towels go on 40. Think I'll stick to 40 for fleeces. It's only Freddie I keep on fleece, Monty went over to fleece last few months of his life. Seems to suit Freddie I'd never risk changing him.

Leo rabbit and my guineas outside have newspaper, hay and I use to use shavings in his loo area, now I've swapped to megazorb, which my hamsters on too.

I've never had problems with shavings but swapped after reading about the risks on here.

I keep freddies fleeces inside and never use them with the others.

I use non bio Eco was tablets/liquid/soap nuts but do clean freddie daily as he does wee a lot!

 

[Poppy'sMum]

I agree with this. It gets very confusing now ?/

I would say that 99% of the guinea pigs in my home town are bedded on shavings (I have had 50 staying with me over the last 8 months), with no problems at all. Mine don't suit it and I tried the hemp stuff, but it was awfully hard and pointy and they hated sitting on it - that's why they went for the hay. Megazorb is great for them, but fleece does seem an lot better - although more time consuming and probably more costly as I wash at 60 degrees (it didn't shrink BTW) - but they sit on that in preference to the hay boxes where they have the opportunity to burrow under it.

Newspaper is horrible - all mine ended up with wet bottoms, especially the long haired ones, despite a good shorty bum clip! I would also worry about it with the prints used - are we supposed to buy "special" newspapers only :^-

I'm happy with the fleece at the moment - it's dry (no wet botties at all) and my piggies are really happy - their coats are improving dramatically and my little Lily is so content to be back on that rather than the Megazorb, she's popcorning everywhere

All confusing mallethead

Jo x

I agree, the hemp/horse bedding is really like tiny wood splinters, I know some people love it, but my last piggy burrowed under all her hay & soft chop straw, & she was always getting hay seeds/bits in her eyes; lots of times I found her sitting miserable the next day, obviously in discomfort & I had to remove the offending piece of hay which was awful I dread to think what damage to the eye those little splinters could do. When I kept them on just newspaper & hay (btw just make sure the print doesn't come off the paper that means it's pretty safe to use) there were always wet spots on the paper; they would get yellow bellies from lying in it or walking in it. I would think they would be far more likely to get UTIs from that sort of bedding than fleece. I clean mine totally twice weekly, the whole lot is washed & all papers thrown out. The fleece stays dry that long, I think it is much better for them & they love it so :p lol

 

[Piggyologist]

Isnt that a bit harsh? I do not agree with all the problems with fleece. If you change it every three days then it is fine. It is nice and cosy for piggies.

your piggies aren't as good drinkers as our obviously - we change VetBed at least every three days and sometimes it's not enough

 

[Shellza]

I completely agree that the GG post is very biased and I feel a bit offended by some of the things that have been mentioned. I try my best to ensure that my pigs are happy and well looked after. Even though Lexi does enjoy cuddling up on a pile of hay, when I used to have them in a hutch piled full of it they would never burrow and would just flatten it down and lie on top of it. She will often just curl up on the fleece too. Archie just loves his cuddle cups and won't lie in anything else and Freya is happy as long as she can get to a dark corner of a hidey. My pigs never go without hay and I always give them a place to lie in it and burrow if they please, but I don't feel the need for the whole cage to be covered.
I don't feel like I'm depriving them of their ability to carry out natural behaviour any more than keeping a horse in a stable or a dog on it's own when naturally they would live out in the open in groups. Yet these are deemed as acceptable (which they are). We are just trying to make our animals as comfortable as possible in an unnatural environment.

I did have a fungal issue with one of my girls, however none of the others she was living with had any problems with it and it hasn't reoccurred even though I'm still using the same fleece (washed of course )

 

[daftscotslass]

I've actually posted a comment on their facebook page. I'd started to write an email but it got ranty so I've expressed my opinion on there more succinctly.

 

[AndreaJane]

I have too, I think mine's come out a bit ranty though! grrrr |)

 

[MerryPip]

I see what you mean it is a bit biased anti-fleece but to be fair it has a few good points...

In terms of washing we should really be washing our own bed clothes, towels etc at 90 to get the bugs out of them. My partner is a doctor and she hates washing things at low temps. It doesn't really get them properly clean. Just gives the bugs a good bath.

I couldn't get on with fleece but that's not to say it doesn't work for some people. I think as long as your pigs are happy and healthy then that's fine.

I think the article was meant as a general warning not a 'blanket' (pardon the pun) moan at all fleece.

Vet bed - the clue is in the title. It was designed for people aqnd animals to wick away moisture and allow for good skin quality. It's been used in hospotals for patients with vulnerable skin for years.

I think people need to chill out a bit about the whole issue. I know it was worded a bit strongly but to be honest how many people go onto a specialist site like gorgeous guineas and don't check opinions elsewhere?! If you are the sort of numpty who just believes everything you read you'd have asked a question on yahoo questions or something, not looked at a specialist site. Credit us all with some common sense and decision making capability!

We all do some things 'not by the book' and as long as no pigs are harmed in the process what's the problem!

 

[AndreaJane]

I see what you mean it is a bit biased anti-fleece but to be fair it has a few good points...

In terms of washing we should really be washing our own bed clothes, towels etc at 90 to get the bugs out of them. My partner is a doctor and she hates washing things at low temps. It doesn't really get them properly clean. Just gives the bugs a good bath.

I couldn't get on with fleece but that's not to say it doesn't work for some people. I think as long as your pigs are happy and healthy then that's fine.

I think the article was meant as a general warning not a 'blanket' (pardon the pun) moan at all fleece.

Vet bed - the clue is in the title. It was designed for people aqnd animals to wick away moisture and allow for good skin quality. It's been used in hospotals for patients with vulnerable skin for years.

I think people need to chill out a bit about the whole issue. I know it was worded a bit strongly but to be honest how many people go onto a specialist site like gorgeous guineas and don't check opinions elsewhere?! If you are the sort of numpty who just believes everything you read you'd have asked a question on yahoo questions or something, not looked at a specialist site. Credit us all with some common sense and decision making capability!

We all do some things 'not by the book' and as long as no pigs are harmed in the process what's the problem!

I think it's this bit:

" Unfortunately however appealing or cute this may look, or easy and acceptable to maintain in the Human home, it is not providing the needs as outlined by the Animal Welfare Act. If your equine bedding (or the like) does not fit in with your house, then maybe guinea pigs don't either?"

that has got a lot of peoples backs up, including mine. I don't use fleece to fit in with my "decor". :{

 

[daftscotslass]

I think people need to chill out a bit about the whole issue. I know it was worded a bit strongly but to be honest how many people go onto a specialist site like gorgeous guineas and don't check opinions elsewhere?! If you are the sort of numpty who just believes everything you read you'd have asked a question on yahoo questions or something, not looked at a specialist site. Credit us all with some common sense and decision making capability!

We all do some things 'not by the book' and as long as no pigs are harmed in the process what's the problem!

From what I gather it was emailed to everyone (so potentially all previous customers), not just people who visit the site.

And yes, I would expect someone who has a lot of influence when it comes to guinea pig health, care and wellbeing to present a balanced viewpoint, not a biased one.

 

[Gems]

I think thats what got me too, it's all very well expressing your opinion on YOUR OWN site, but to email that opinion, which was incredibly biased, to all your customers is in my eyes highly inappropriate to be honest.

She clearly polled various bedding, why did she feel the need to specifically target fleece and not mention the others? Maybe it would have been more beneficial to list the pros and cons of each bedding type and let the readers make an informed decision rather than to just berate the one, which kind of indicates the others are better alternatives.

 

[Dindypig]

For those of us that are still happy to use fleece, I've found that good quality, thick fleece works very well. I buy mine from a material shop, it works out about the same price as the cheap thin stuff from Primark etc. Never use conditioner when washing fleece (or towels for that matter) because it ruins the absorption and wicking properties.

 

[Poppy'sMum]

I think it's this bit:

" Unfortunately however appealing or cute this may look, or easy and acceptable to maintain in the Human home, it is not providing the needs as outlined by the Animal Welfare Act. If your equine bedding (or the like) does not fit in with your house, then maybe guinea pigs don't either?"

that has got a lot of peoples backs up, including mine. I don't use fleece to fit in with my "decor". :{

Me neither! I'd never even heard of fleece before joining the forum! I stopped using woodshavings because I take my piggies to the CCT & Vedra is allergic to them, plus they did used to get in my sows' ehm "private" bits rolleyes. I know lots of people use them because of cost & that's fine, but I am also concerned if there could be a toxic issue with them long term, but that's just my personal opinion/worry. I then switched to just paper & hay, then because it would stink in 2 days I was always cleaning them out, I used soft chop straw on top on newspaper, & hay as the top layer. Yes they liked that but every time they ran it all went everywhere & they got lots of eye pokes (especially Poppy who thought she was a mole at times lol). They also kept getting static lice so had to be bathed every 6-8 weeks to prevent them.

So with my 3rd lot of piggies I thought I'd give fleece a go & have been pleasantly surprised so far. They have a foraging area, hay in hay racks, boxes & loo roll tubes etc so have plenty of places to search for it & eat. If it means no more hay pokes & less likelihood of bumblefoot & other ailments for them then I will persevere with it! I know it's not "natural" but then neither is megazorb, carefresh, auboise & woodshavings as piggies wouldn't bed down in them either in the wild! rolleyes

 

[AndreaJane]

I was just thinking that myself, none of these things are found in the wild. Let's face it, wild cavys usually use old abandoned runs from other animals don't they? Does that mean we're going to start lining our cages with hard packed earth?! :{ Anyway, they're domesticated versions of wild guinea pigs, just like dogs are domesticated versions of wolves - our great dane wouldn't have thanked me if I'd taken her fleecy bedding away and expected her to sleep on a hard floor! mallethead So what is "natural" for a domesticated animal anyway? It's a completely subjective topic! :{ My main concern is health and happiness.

 

[Splat n Dexter]

I was just thinking that myself, none of these things are found in the wild. Let's face it, wild cavys usually use old abandoned runs from other animals don't they? Does that mean we're going to start lining our cages with hard packed earth?! :{ Anyway, they're domesticated versions of wild guinea pigs, just like dogs are domesticated versions of wolves - our great dane wouldn't have thanked me if I'd taken her fleecy bedding away and expected her to sleep on a hard floor! mallethead So what is "natural" for a domesticated animal anyway? It's a completely subjective topic! :{ My main concern is health and happiness.

And that appears to be her main concerns also.
The article lets us know that fleece needs washing at high temps to kill of fungal and bacterial problems which may develop and also points out the importance of having an area of hay for the pigs to forage in, a natural behaviour for them, thus helping them to be happier. A pile of hay can often be overlooked by people using fleece as something that causes mess to their fleece, so hay is stored away in hay racks instead.

Thankfully most owners on here are better informed and provide such an area; but there are other owners out there who don't and it's those that she's reaching out to I feel.

 

[LordBernieBouffant]

Actually, as a previous customer I didn't get an email about it.

I also don't think 263 replies is enough to get a proper opinion (out of how many thousands of guinea pig owners in the country?). If the 263 people emailed have recently been advised by Chrissie to bed on newspaper and hay rather than anything else, then the results will show that.

I feel she could have been a little more advisory regarding the washing of fleece rather than being anti fleece.

My piggies have a large cat litter tray lined with megazorb and with fresh hay in it twice per day. They jump in, squash it down and eat it - I have rarely seen them bury in it (and they have the room to do so) unless they've been ill. Yes the hay ends up on the fleece, but it shakes off outside - and likes someone said - never shake a fleece straight out of the cage - I did it once >>>

My lot much prefer a fleece blanket to bury under than hay

Jo x

 

[CandyFloss]

Actually, as a previous customer I didn't get an email about it.

I also don't think 263 replies is enough to get a proper opinion (out of how many thousands of guinea pig owners in the country?). If the 263 people emailed have recently been advised by Chrissie to bed on newspaper and hay rather than anything else, then the results will show that.

I feel she could have been a little more advisory regarding the washing of fleece rather than being anti fleece.

My piggies have a large cat litter tray lined with megazorb and with fresh hay in it twice per day. They jump in, squash it down and eat it - I have rarely seen them bury in it (and they have the room to do so) unless they've been ill. Yes the hay ends up on the fleece, but it shakes off outside - and likes someone said - never shake a fleece straight out of the cage - I did it once >>>

My lot much prefer a fleece blanket to bury under than hay

Jo x

I agree totally. I am a previous customer and didnt get the email either.

I also have litter trays full of hay changed twice a day so there's plenty of hay to hide in if they want. Mine do prefer going under the several layers of fleecy blanket though

Also, as fleece is relatively inexpensive, I do replace it regulary although I will admit havent been washing it at high temperatures. :...

I think the tone of the article wasnt very friendly - implying people just use fleece to match their decor .... rolleyes :x

x

 

[Sappho]

My lot much prefer a fleece blanket to bury under than hay

Agreed. When given the option of fleece/towel or hay, it's the former.

My piggies all have hay lofts or hay trays which they jump in, stamp down and lounge in, but for comfort it's always the fleece blankets or cosies.

I'm glad this thread is here, as I admit I did panic a bit when I read that email. I suddenly thought I hadn't been providing my pigs with the best care these last two years! I personally use fleece because I have had to move a few times in the last few years and it's generally easier in respect to landlords. Now I'm living in a first floor flat without outdoor space, and having to deal with shavings or pure hay would be a nightmare! (Luckily we know the downstairs neighbours very well and they let us grow grass and let the pigs run around in good weather etc. which at least makes that a bit easier).

I think we all do the very best we can for our piggies, and everyone has different reasons for using different beddings - what I take especial exception to is the suggestion that it is done purely for aesthetic reasons and to fit in with the 'decor'.

 

[Sappho]

I think the tone of the article wasnt very friendly - implying people just use fleece to match their decor .... rolleyes :x

I must have been writing my post at the same time as you! But this is exactly the point I didn't like as well.

 

[Amanda1801]

I think when you register as a first time buyer, you have the option to receive info from them - if you said yes, you get their emails.

 

[Mackers]

I got the e-mail and I've always kept my piggies on washable inco pads and fleece or vetbed. They also have a large underbed storage box full of hay in which to forage. I wash all their bedding at 40 degrees and change the fleece every 2-3 days.

However, I am now conducting an experiment of my own due to the fact that my piggies seem to suffer recurring bouts of skin problems (dandruff/possible fungal infections).

I have noticed that the fleece stays ever so slightly damp on the surface. The vet bed doesn't. The fleece is a dog blanket so designed for pets rather than something I bought in Ikea. The pigs seem to like their fleece and cozy beds and I've never been concerned about it. However, due to their skin problems, I am now going to bed them down on megazorb or aubiose and hay for at least 2-3 months and see if it makes any difference to their health.

An initial observation was that they went wild with delight when placed in the hay, wheeking and popcorning all over the place. For my own pigs, I'd say they much preferred being on hay. I sprinkle readigrass over the hay and they love to forage around for it (I used to just put it in a bowl).

So watch this space. I'll report back if I find their skin improves.

 

[first_time_piggie_mum]

Oh dear...mallethead

I predict a drop in sales on the GG website

 

[Splat n Dexter]

I got the e-mail and I've always kept my piggies on washable inco pads and fleece or vetbed. They also have a large underbed storage box full of hay in which to forage. I wash all their bedding at 40 degrees and change the fleece every 2-3 days.

However, I am now conducting an experiment of my own due to the fact that my piggies seem to suffer recurring bouts of skin problems (dandruff/possible fungal infections).

I have noticed that the fleece stays ever so slightly damp on the surface. The vet bed doesn't. The fleece is a dog blanket so designed for pets rather than something I bought in Ikea. The pigs seem to like their fleece and cozy beds and I've never been concerned about it. However, due to their skin problems, I am now going to bed them down on megazorb or aubiose and hay for at least 2-3 months and see if it makes any difference to their health.

An initial observation was that they went wild with delight when placed in the hay, wheeking and popcorning all over the place. For my own pigs, I'd say they much preferred being on hay. I sprinkle readigrass over the hay and they love to forage around for it (I used to just put it in a bowl).

So watch this space. I'll report back if I find their skin improves.

Good to see you are giving it a try and for a decent period of time. Looking forward to hearing how you get on.

 

[claire8234]

I actually though this was a very useful and interesting article. I appreciate why some people may think its a bit of harsh critique on the use of fleece, however I do think she gave a good account of correct washing, preventing skin problems etc.

I haven't made my mind up about whether or not to use fleece, I shall certainly give it a unbias try but certainly wont stick with it just because its the latest thing that everyone is using.

 

[Connie]

My boys go mad over a clean fleece... where as even the best hay in theyre tray gets barely a look. Personally, i think most of the washing stuff is just common sense. I dont wash my sheets at 30, i wash them at 60 or 90, therefor i do the same with the piggy stuff.