Is 3 definitely a crowd?

Dawnieruns

Dawnieruns

Junior Guinea Pig
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Sorry, this is long. My four-year-old boar (Capelinni, left in photo) lost his brother Romano back in late May. They were VERY bonded their entire life. Had them both since babies. I allowed him to grieve and then in June went to adopt just one young male piggy for him to bond with…but ended up not wanting to separate two young ones and I brought two of them home. Feta (grey crested)more dominant/social/playful) and Ollie, (black and white) VERY submissive/fearful/antisocial.) I feel now that it was a mistake. 😭Capelinni and Feta have bonded beautifully, but Ollie is unfortunately becoming the outcast and I feel just terrible for him! I have two cages in the house, one that is a 6 x 2 C&C cage and one that is 4 x 2 C&C (can’t fit a larger one in my room.) I usually have all three boys in the 6 x 2 cage or else in the large playpen down in the living room for floor time.

Almost every evening I have floor time with them all, holding them & give lots of snacks & attention.

Although Ollie and Feta were seemingly bonded in the beginning, I have had to separate Ollie from Feta regularly now, having to put Ollie in my smaller cage and leave Feta with Capelinni as they are bonded and never fight. And then sometimes I put Ollie with Capelinni in the large cage and have Feta alone with me for a while.

I am very worried about Ollie as Feta has already scratched him once. I feel like Ollie does not want to be part of the group at all. But I also don’t want to encourage factions and allow Feta and Capelinni to develop a stronger bond while Ollie becomes more and more isolated. I also don’t want to risk Ollie being bullied or injured especially when I am not home. I am reading that it is not a good idea to separate the pigs, and then other places suggest it’s necessary if blood is drawn. I feel like I’ve been playing musical chairs with them, either separating Feta or separating Ollie. They can’t all three be together for more than a couple of hours at a time at this point. Any suggestions? Another thing is that Ollie is still completely terrified of me, he doesn’t even bond with me, which makes me so sad. I am very bonded to the other two. I keep hoping that Ollie will turn a leaf and start sticking up for himself, and maybe become part of the group but I do understand it’s not ideal to have three boars. I need to make the best of this somehow. I really love them terribly.IMG_0319.webp
 
I’m sorry for your loss.

Boars trios almost always fail: boars can only really be kept in pairs.
Character compatibility is critical with any bond but when dealing with three boars it is very hard to get it to work out, particularly where there are young piggies involved. Fights due to too many dominant piggies or bullying and one being left out is the usual outcome with a boar trio.
Space is also critical to any attempt at a boar trio and unfortunately a 6x2 isn’t big enough - an allowance of at least one square metre per boar which means a cage of at least a 9x3 is the recommended size. Even with that space though they will still find it very hard to get on, the space just means they can get far enough away from each other.

It’s not good to separate bonded piggies but you are dealing with something very different here. You’re dealing with a dynamic which is not a happy one and not properly functional and it’s why you are finding the separations necessary at all - in a bonded pair separation is never needed. Added to that repeated reintroduction adds additional stress when a bond isn’t functional.
A fight and/or injuries always means they can’t remain together. Immediate and permanent separation is always the course of action which needs to be taken in this event.

In the case of bullying, if the bullied pig fights back then it is a clear sign that they have had as much as they can take of it and have ‘snapped’. Therefore if Ollie was to fight back it wouldn’t resolve anything as separation would still be needed.

Therefore our advice is that you permanently separate them. Things will not improve between them and you may even find things get worse if you leave them together.
Keep capellini and feta together in the 6x2 as a bonded pair and put Ollie in the 4x2 cage which needs to be side by side with capellini and feta. Ollie requires the interaction and communication with them between the bars but they can’t share a territory with capellini and feta. Allowing Ollie any time with capellini will cause stress and runs the risk of disrupting the bond between capellini and feta.
Make sure they also have separate floor times.

I’m sorry it’s not more positive but unfortunately boar trios are notoriously hard.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
 
Unless boars can choose each other or the personality constellation is just right, boar trios usually fail. The more younger boars are in the mix, the higher the fall-out and fail rate there is.

Trios of any constellation can very easily end up as a 2+1 group with an outsider issue of some sort or other. They are in my own experience the most difficult constellation to get right although working trios are a great thing.

However, it all always hinges on the individual personality constellation and the dynamics that develop between them. That is not something we can predict; in our advice we can only reflect trends.

See whether Ollie perks up noticeably when having his own corner with a divider. If yes, you have your answer. Not every boar-divorce needs to be a bloody fight. ;)
 
You’ve had great advice from Piggies&buns and Wiebke
Sadly Ollie is at risk of injury and I think the reason he is terrified of you is the trio mix and the stress of being together
I’m sure once Ollie is in his own space permanently he’ll start to relax and gradually hopefully he’ll show his personality
Good luck
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry for your loss.

Boars trios almost always fail: boars can only really be kept in pairs.
Character compatibility is critical with any bond but when dealing with three boars it is very hard to get it to work out, particularly where there are young piggies involved. Fights due to too many dominant piggies or bullying and one being left out is the usual outcome with a boar trio.
Space is also critical to any attempt at a boar trio and unfortunately a 6x2 isn’t big enough - an allowance of at least one square metre per boar which means a cage of at least a 9x3 is the recommended size. Even with that space though they will still find it very hard to get on, the space just means they can get far enough away from each other.

It’s not good to separate bonded piggies but you are dealing with something very different here. You’re dealing with a dynamic which is not a happy one and not properly functional and it’s why you are finding the separations necessary at all - in a bonded pair separation is never needed. Added to that repeated reintroduction adds additional stress when a bond isn’t functional.
A fight and/or injuries always means they can’t remain together. Immediate and permanent separation is always the course of action which needs to be taken in this event.

In the case of bullying, if the bullied pig fights back then it is a clear sign that they have had as much as they can take of it and have ‘snapped’. Therefore if Ollie was to fight back it wouldn’t resolve anything as separation would still be needed.

Therefore our advice is that you permanently separate them. Things will not improve between them and you may even find things get worse if you leave them together.
Keep capellini and feta together in the 6x2 as a bonded pair and put Ollie in the 4x2 cage which needs to be side by side with capellini and feta. Ollie requires the interaction and communication with them between the bars but they can’t share a territory with capellini and feta. Allowing Ollie any time with capellini will cause stress and runs the risk of disrupting the bond between capellini and feta.
Make sure they also have separate floor times.

I’m sorry it’s not more positive but unfortunately boar trios are notoriously hard.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for your reply….my heart is naturally broken because I wanted the three of them to love each other. 😭Now I see that’s not going to happen. Thank you for being frank with me, I guess little Ollie is going to have to stay in the 4 x 2. Kind of what we were thinking of anyway at this point. Thank you so much again. I wish I had only brought one of the baby piggies home but what’s done is done 😞
 
So sorry for your loss of Romano ❤️
I'm no expert at all, but it is probably the best for Ollie if he's removed from the other 2. Boar trios are very rare, and I don't think there's been many in the history of the forum. My first piggies were a boar trio (RIP), they were 2 brothers and a half brother (same Dad different Mum) and they were the sweetest little trio and i never had any issues, but as Wiebke and Piggies&Buns have said, they are very rare and usually don't work out.
Its such a shame for you but hopefully Ollie will calm down and show you his personality after he's been separated from Feta and Capelinni.
Wishing you the best of luck ❤️
- Your perth piggies- Honey-soy, Jaffal, Pepsi, Coco, Peeps and Susan
 
Thank you all so much. 🫂
So tonight my sweet little Ollie is in the smaller C&C (2 x 4) right next to me, and Capelinni & Feta are in my son‘s room in the 2 x 6 together. I think it’s kind of what they wanted all along. I just feel so bad for Ollie, so afraid that he will feel lonely/rejected and that might even affect his health. (Although being with Feta would definitely affect his health even worse…) Although it doesn’t seem to bother him right now.
I want him to feel safe and loved even if it’s just by humans.😭
I’m so thankful that there is a forum out here for people who love guinea pigs like we do. A lot of people just don’t understand.
Peace -
 
I'm afraid Ollie being in your room and Capelinni and feta being in your son’s room will not work and could cause Ollie to become depressed and lonely. While they cannot share a cage, It is absolutely vital that their cages are not only in the same room but that the two cages are side by side so that Ollie can still see, hear and interact with the other two between the bars. I’m afraid human interaction is not enough for him as a single pig. Communication between guinea pigs is with scent and body language and isn’t something a human can replicate.

Cappellini and feta only need to be in a 5x2 cage (recommended size for a boar pair) and Ollie can be in a 3x2 (that is the smallest size for a single piggy) so if you need to make both cages a little smaller so that they fit in the same room and beside each other then that can be done.

This guide explains more about the importance of side by side interaction

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

The only way they can be in separate rooms is if you get a new friend to bond with Ollie. Although their cage will then also need to be a 5x2
 
I am renting a townhouse so space is definitely an issue. The downstairs has pretty much no space available. My son had to move in with me a couple years ago, otherwise I would have an entire room for the piggies!
Out of your suggestions I would probably opt to find Ollie a friend and extend my cage with one more grid to make it a 5 x 2. Its possible but will pretty much be using all my available space. With that thought, would it be best for me to adopt an older piggy to share with Ollie? Or maybe find a neutered female?
 
Dawnieruns said:
I am renting a townhouse so space is definitely an issue. The downstairs has pretty much no space available. My son had to move in with me a couple years ago, otherwise I would have an entire room for the piggies!
Out of your suggestions I would probably opt to find Ollie a friend and extend my cage with one more grid to make it a 5 x 2. Its possible but will pretty much be using all my available space. With that thought, would it be best for me to adopt an older piggy to share with Ollie? Or maybe find a neutered female?
Click to expand...

You can actually be better to find a younger/baby boy to bond with Ollie. A baby won’t challenge Ollie for dominance which can make bonding easier.

If you can find a neutered female then that might be an option (in the UK finding a spayed female in rescue would be almost impossible). However, you would have to be extremely careful and take huge precautions. Cappelini and feta would have to be kept away from a sow forever. You could never have all four in the same room, and you would have to make sure the scent of a sow never transferred to cappellini and feta (ie you would always have to deal with cappellini and feta first so you don’t have sow smells on your hands).
This is because for a bonded pair of boys, seeing or even smelling a sow can cause the boys to fight which would break their bond.
Including if you got a sow and then moved house you still have to be sure you could still keep both pairs in totally different rooms.

Either way, the safest way to find a new friend is with the help of a rescue centre as they can hopefully help you with getting a compatible pig for him, so you don’t end up with another failed bond

I’ve added some more guides below

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours
 
You could also have Ollie neutered and he could live in your room with a sow. Just not in the same room as the other boys.
 
is there any way to increase his enclosure size and get him a cage mate?
 
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