Lost All Confidence In Myself With My Piggies

Mishka

Mishka

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
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Location
Innellan, Argyll, UK
Hi all. We've had a tough week in our house. poor little Luna has had an eye infection and then Tuesday developed a UTI too. It is just never ending in my house...

I think I might be experiencing a straw breaking a camel's back moment here...

My herd life is not the way it used to be and not how I hoped it would be. I used to have 8 beautiful girls who all lived together in one big happy family. I miss them so so so much.

Over the last 14 months my babies passed one by one. We made the decision to shrink our herd because the vets bills just crippled us. So we adopted two more girls, went to a herd of four. That was nice.

Two more losses in August resulted in a rescue of another pair. Luna and her mother, Artemis. We wanted to keep a herd of four. It seemed perfect. I fell instantly in love with Luna and Artie. Artie particularly. She'd been very badly neglected and for the 4 weeks after she came home with me I took intensive care of her getting her healthy and she helped me begin to recover from the devastating losses I had experienced.

Time came to attempt introductions to my other pair, Freyja and Frigga. I'd done so many intros before, I didn't think there would be a problem.

It went very wrong. It cost Artemis her life.

I cannot -describe- the pain. I really can't. There is just nothing like it. I had brought her into her home promising her love and safety. She lived with more 4 weeks and then died horribly.

Luna was on her own after that. She became very depressed. I was very frightened of trying to introduce her to Freyja and Frigga again, so I went to get Ceridwen in a fit of desperation, in the hopes a baby would be an easy bonding experience for her. And we all know how that went...

So, I tried introducing Luna back to Freyja and Frigga again. Three times. And it isn't working. Freyja and Luna attack each other almost immediately. I cannot risk another life being lost by trying to 'let them work through it'.

So now we're in a situation where I have set up a divided cage in one room, that Freyja and Frigga live on one side of, Luna lives on the other. It's sort of working, but none of them have enough room really, and it's not the way I wanted it to be. It's not the way it -should- be. Luna is brighter but there's a lot of bar chewing and rumblestrutting along the divider by she and Freyja.

Ceridwen could be ready to come out of quarantine next week. But now I am so terrified to try introduce her to Luna.

Luna is -not- a bad piggy. It is not her fault things went the way they did. But she is big and strong and easily stressed. And Ceridwen is a pocket rocket who is over excitable. I am totally terrified it will not work out and someone will die...

I'm also terrified that this hodgepodge cage set up I have will become permanent. Ceri in one, Freyja and Frigga in another, Luna in the other half of it. Split between rooms, split between humans...

I will not rehome Luna. I owe her so much. I love her. It is my fault things have ended up this way.

But everything has just gone so wrong, over and over. I have no idea what to do anymore. I'm so -sad-. I can't shake it.

I don't really know what I am hoping to achieve by posting this. Honestly, I'm having trouble dealing with everything that's happened in the last year. I could probably use some counselling. But that won't help my current situation.
 
Hey, I know it's hard but getting it all out can help ease some of the stress,
It sounds like a horrible situation you've found yourself in,
Its possible that Luna and Ceridwen will get along and that it will all work out.
But it's also possible that they won't get along and that would be sad but it's not your fault, you've tried to fix things and be a good pig mum but sometimes it doesn't work out,

I know you'll probably do this anyway when Ceri is out of quarantine, but setting them up side by side is the best way to let them get used to each other,
We're all hoping for the best for you and your pigs but if the worst happened and they don't bond we will be here to help you through it and figure out what to do.
Your not facing this alone okay?
We all care and want to help you :)
 
TheLottiediarys said:
Hey, I know it's hard but getting it all out can help ease some of the stress,
It sounds like a horrible situation you've found yourself in,
Its possible that Luna and Ceridwen will get along and that it will all work out.
But it's also possible that they won't get along and that would be sad but it's not your fault, you've tried to fix things and be a good pig mum but sometimes it doesn't work out,

I know you'll probably do this anyway when Ceri is out of quarantine, but setting them up side by side is the best way to let them get used to each other,
We're all hoping for the best for you and your pigs but if the worst happened and they don't bond we will be here to help you through it and figure out what to do.
Your not facing this alone okay?
We all care and want to help you :)
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*hugs* Thank you. I think you're right, I just needed to have my thoughts somewhere other than spiraling in my head.

I had hoped the split cage would let Luna and Freyja get used to one another. Maybe if we hadn't had the intro go so badly wrong before I would be less apprehensive about letting them squabble. But last time it had the worst possible outcome. So now, I get maybe 30 minutes in, the huffing and spiraling starts, and I get them out straight away... Tuesday night Freyja actually took a dash at Luna and they made contact and I almost went into full panic attack, I couldn't breathe when I separated them... Luna wants to be Freyja's friend, I think, but Freyja is having none of it, and then Luna gets stressed and the scrapping starts.

I also rent and I am very concerned about my landlord walking in and seeing cages everywhere. Something has to give, somewhere :(
 
Mishka said:
*hugs* Thank you. I think you're right, I just needed to have my thoughts somewhere other than spiraling in my head.

I had hoped the split cage would let Luna and Freyja get used to one another. Maybe if we hadn't had the intro go so badly wrong before I would be less apprehensive about letting them squabble. But last time it had the worst possible outcome. So now, I get maybe 30 minutes in, the huffing and spiraling starts, and I get them out straight away... Tuesday night Freyja actually took a dash at Luna and they made contact and I almost went into full panic attack, I couldn't breathe when I separated them... Luna wants to be Freyja's friend, I think, but Freyja is having none of it, and then Luna gets stressed and the scrapping starts.

I also rent and I am very concerned about my landlord walking in and seeing cages everywhere. Something has to give, somewhere :(
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I totally understand how you feel about being nervous after a bad introduction,
The same thing happened with my girl Baby, I introduced her to my two girls and she just attacked Anya, straight for the it, it was awful and like you it shook me for a very long time,
So when I then tried to into Anya/Aurora with Bear and Lottie I was on the verse of panic at any small thing that happened, it was a horrible experience and in some ways was worse then the orginal fight I saw,
So I completely sympthise with how you feel.
And like your girls when I put Baby and Anya next door to each other Baby would try to attack Anya though the bars, so that's not nice to witness either.

It sounds like poor Luna just doesn't know what to do :( :(
Hopefully she will accept Ceri :) :)

Well if your allowed to have pets hopefully the landlord won't mind too much the amount of cages everywhere :)
If you could stack them that might help,
(Not sure if yours are CC cages or not)
Take up less space and if Freyja is away from Luna that might reduce the friction? ? :)
 
It sounds like you have had a dreadful year, and after what you have been through I am not surprised you are upset.

I know it is difficult, but try to take a deep breath and take things one step at a time.
You are clearly a committed, experienced, and very caring owner, and it is perfectly natural to be sad about what has happened. Give yourself time to grieve and be kind to yourself.
But right now you need also need to try and look forward to creating a positive outcome for the piggies you are currently caring for.

When it comes time to bond Luna and Ceri is there another piggy owner (or even better someone from a local rescue with bonding experience) who could come and sit with you and offer support?
Maybe if you weren't on your own, and had the insight of someone who is not directly involved with the piggies this would help?
Someone who has done bonding's before would be perfect, but even a good friend or animal lover might help you to feel less alone.

I would also consider removing all contact between Luna and Freyja and Frigga.
Clearly the sight and sound of each otehr is winding Luna up, and the last thing you need is a fractious piggy when you want to bond her with Ceri.
Maybe the time away from them will also make her more accepting of another piggy companion, as she will be missing the company.

Then once they are successfully bonded you can address the cage situation.
It sounds like it will end up being 2 pairs, which can also be a wonderful combination - not the herd you were hoping for - but lovely all the same.
I also have 2 pairs, who were meant to be a herd of four, but they had other ideas about that!
I was also very upset at first, but I have now come to see that although it isn't my vision, the piggies that I have are very happy and that is all that matters.

Maybe if you can post photos of your cage set up people will be able to offer advice on how to improve it?
I have received so many great ideas from people on here, and my own set up is much better as a result.

You are doing an amazing job in a very difficult situation :hug:
 
Sometimes it helps to just get everything off your chest. Please don't blame yourself though, you do so much for your girls. I am so sorry to hear what happened with Artie, but you were not to know that things would turn out the way they did. I get what you mean exactly about cages being split as I have had to do the same due to Ronnie the skinny managing to annoy all but one sow in the flat. So he and my Luna are in a cage that is not the size I wanted for him.

I think there is a chance your Luna will bond with Ceri too because she is young. I have only had one sow not accept a baby and she disliked every pig she came into contact with bless her.
 
That is an awful situation and i'm so sorry.

From my experiences, when I have introduced a new sow, i've found that carry case (attaching a water bottle, food inside etc) and placing it in the hutch can work very well. I have tried this with my own sows, as I wanted to pair two sows together (ages 4 and 6) this way they can interact, smell and what not, but cannot physically get to each other.

After a few days of the above, I introduced them to each other whilst grazing on the grass.

It has been about a month since I introduced the newly paired sows into the group I have, and all 10 sows seem to get along fine, but I do strongly recommend trying to separate them with some sort of barrier but allow them to interact.

When mine recently (and unfortunately, {well not unfortunately I guess, i'm keeping the babes}) had a litter as she was pregnant from the rescue, I placed her in a square-wire type enclosure thing. The bars allowed all sows to interact but kept that distance between them, maybe consider doing that with your guineas?

*I will add with the wire bars, I gave my guineas chew sticks, but they didn't seem interested in chewing the bars anyway, but it could happen.

It will take time, but with patience you could have your herd of 4 again, but it will take time.
 
Thank you all so much, really. It helps knowing I'm not the only one who has faced things like this. I do feel like a failure at the moment....

Yes, they're in C&Cs. Currently Luna, Freyja and Frigga are in the divided 3x5. Stacking is something I've thought about actually, it would help with the space issue. Cleaning might just be a bit of a challenge. I'm disabled :S

I do wonder if maybe I should try the intros again one last time... It's the snorting. I heard that before Luna and Artemis turned on one another... I hear that and I am convinced there is serious danger, I know that it's a big red flag. It's a really good idea to ask for outside help. I do know of a lady who runs a rescue near me, I could reach out to her for help.

I don't know. I could take Luna back out on her own again for the next week I guess. I just worry about her so much, she was so depressed on her own, she wouldn't get out of bed except to eat, and stopped wheeking. But providing Ceridwen stays clear on her quarantine I suppose it would hopefully be a few days...

Sometimes I look at Ceridwen and I think to myself 'Yes, Luna is going to adore you, you're so playful and happy.' And other times I think 'Oh God, you're going to stress her out, you're so hyper...'
 
It can really get you down when things don't go to plan!

Unfortunately when you rehome piggies with a past you know nothing about, it can come and bite you. Some piggies can come with underlying problems and they can be badly traumatised and so fear aggressive that they are unable to get on with any new piggies. Settling them down often takes years, rather than months. You are doing a good job; just try not to get your hopes up too much and have a plan B at the ready in case things do not work out between Luna and Ceridwen. Sorting out Luna is more likely a life time's job (life time in terms of piggy lives); try to see it as that.

I am currently there with Beryn on the one side and Hyfryd on the other. Both have bonding/fear-aggression issues.
One because she has very obviously been a single piggy and the other because the conditions must have been pretty cramped and horrid with two pregnant sows and a neutered boar in a tiny hutch. They were all found dumped in public premises.
Hydryd has got her very skittish rescue born daughter Hirael with her, whose personality reflects the stress her mum has been under, but bonding her with other piggies has not worked, not even with a submissive young neutered boar. :(
 
Wiebke said:
It can really get you down when things don't go to plan!

Unfortunately when you rehome piggies with a past you know nothing about, it can come and bite you. Some piggies can come with underlying problems and they can be badly traumatised and so fear aggressive that they are unable to get on with any new piggies. Settling them down often takes years, rather than months. You are doing a good job; just try not to get your hopes up too much and have a plan B at the ready in case things do not work out between Luna and Ceridwen. Sorting out Luna is more likely a life time's job (life time in terms of piggy lives); try to see it as that.

I am currently there with Beryn on the one side and Hyfryd on the other. Both have bonding/fear-aggression issues.
One because she has very obviously been a single piggy and the other because the conditions must have been pretty cramped and horrid with two pregnant sows and a neutered boar in a tiny hutch. They were all found dumped in public premises.
Hydryd has got her very skittish rescue born daughter Hirael with her, whose personality reflects the stress her mum has been under, but bonding her with other piggies has not worked, not even with a submissive young neutered boar. :(
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I think you are absolutely right. Luna came from terrible conditions I saw first hand and only ever had Artemis. The loss of her must have been devastating. And no piggy could ever replace that hole her mother has left :( Luna is going to need a lifetime of gentle, patient love, I'm certain. She's actually got a wonderful personality when it comes to interacting with myself and slowly my other half as he puts the time in with her, but she's very edgy. She's clearly never been handled lovingly. That is why no matter what happens, she will always stay with me. I have let her down, yes, but I absolutely wouldn't trust anyone else either..

Tbh the plan B if Luna and Ceri do not work out would be to keep Luna as a single pig and hope I could give her the love she needs that she will not become depressed again. I'm fairly certain Freyja and Frigga would accept Ceri without issue. So that's a consideration I am keeping in the back of my mind too. I would -hate- for Luna to be permanently alone, but safety is paramount here...
 
Hello. 1st let me say well done for being honest and posting this very imformative message.
I've read this and you doing the right thing ask in for help. I'm a lost to help as I have 3 girls who get along 99% of the time only messin and grumblin when one's in season. I was lucky as the girls were friends before I got them.
On here are as you will hopfully find out lots people who WILL HELP and give you advise as you can see So did deep as In the end your love for you piggies will win. xx
 
Mishka said:
I think you are absolutely right. Luna came from terrible conditions I saw first hand and only ever had Artemis. The loss of her must have been devastating. And no piggy could ever replace that hole her mother has left :( Luna is going to need a lifetime of gentle, patient love, I'm certain. She's actually got a wonderful personality when it comes to interacting with myself and slowly my other half as he puts the time in with her, but she's very edgy. She's clearly never been handled lovingly. That is why no matter what happens, she will always stay with me. I have let her down, yes, but I absolutely wouldn't trust anyone else either..

Tbh the plan B if Luna and Ceri do not work out would be to keep Luna as a single pig and hope I could give her the love she needs that she will not become depressed again. I'm fairly certain Freyja and Frigga would accept Ceri without issue. So that's a consideration I am keeping in the back of my mind too. I would -hate- for Luna to be permanently alone, but safety is paramount here...
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I jave adopted Beryn on the premise that I will do my best to find her congenial company, but if that is not working out, then I am going to keep her as a live-alongside piggy with regular human interaction and round the clock piggy interaction through the bars.

If you can ever rescue date Luna, that would be the best way forward as it would mean that you would only come home with a companion if acceptance has happened at the rescue and you have the rescue to fall back on if things go haywire. I am generally prepared to travel quite a distance for the right piggy in these cases.
Guinea Pig Rescue Centre Locator
 
TheLottiediarys said:
Hey, I know it's hard but getting it all out can help ease some of the stress,
It sounds like a horrible situation you've found yourself in,
Its possible that Luna and Ceridwen will get along and that it will all work out.
But it's also possible that they won't get along and that would be sad but it's not your fault, you've tried to fix things and be a good pig mum but sometimes it doesn't work out,

I know you'll probably do this anyway when Ceri is out of quarantine, but setting them up side by side is the best way to let them get used to each other,
We're all hoping for the best for you and your pigs but if the worst happened and they don't bond we will be here to help you through it and figure out what to do.
Your not facing this alone okay?
We all care and want to help you :)
Click to expand...
Bless you x You are doing your utmost to care for your girls - they just might have other ideas. I'm so pleased that you have so many people on here who can offer advice and help. Good luck. Whatever happens, you have your pigs and, most importantly, they have you. x
 
Firstly, I'm so sorry about your Artemis. I hadn't heard about her but maybe I'd not yet joined the Forum.
The idea of stacking the cages may work for you if your OH could help with cleaning?
Also has @Wiebke has said, side by side home areas for Luna and Ceri, if bonding itself doesn't work out, would let them have piggy company as long as you have time to give them both lots of your time too, as I know you will. xx
Using a rescue too to help with bonding or someone who is experienced with piggies but not as emotionally involved as you must be would greatly help your nerves while the bonding process goes on! Just remember though that not all piggies are going to like each other as you have found out so it is not your fault if they don't see eye to eye!
Again, I'm so sorry LIFE is so hard for you just now as it makes it difficult to think back on all the times that you have experienced joy and pleasure from your little darlings.
We are all sending love, hugs and bonding vibes to you.
Janice x
 
Janice C said:
Firstly, I'm so sorry about your Artemis. I hadn't heard about her but maybe I'd not yet joined the Forum.
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Honestly, I hadn't told anyone about her here... I had been on the guineapigcages forum chronicling her and Luna's story from the day I brought them home, but in the wake of her death, it just broke something in me and honestly I felt too ashamed to share here... But it's hard, carrying that around on your own... It happened on the 2nd of October, it feels like it's a world away and yet very fresh all at once, with everything that's happened since.
 
Mishka said:
Honestly, I hadn't told anyone about her here... I had been on the guineapigcages forum chronicling her and Luna's story from the day I brought them home, but in the wake of her death, it just broke something in me and honestly I felt too ashamed to share here... But it's hard, carrying that around on your own... It happened on the 2nd of October, it feels like it's a world away and yet very fresh all at once, with everything that's happened since.
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Sorry, I know how hard it can be to open up to people when youve been through such a tragedy. x
 
Mishka said:
Honestly, I hadn't told anyone about her here... I had been on the guineapigcages forum chronicling her and Luna's story from the day I brought them home, but in the wake of her death, it just broke something in me and honestly I felt too ashamed to share here... But it's hard, carrying that around on your own... It happened on the 2nd of October, it feels like it's a world away and yet very fresh all at once, with everything that's happened since.
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You poor thing x hugs xxxxx
 
Honesly sometimes I just look at Luna and I think I did much more damage than good bringing her home with me. She and Artemis were in -disgusting- conditions, half starved and shoulder deep in their own waste... But I cost Artemis her life. All I want to do now is try and make things right with Luna somehow.
 
Mishka said:
Honestly, I hadn't told anyone about her here... I had been on the guineapigcages forum chronicling her and Luna's story from the day I brought them home, but in the wake of her death, it just broke something in me and honestly I felt too ashamed to share here... But it's hard, carrying that around on your own... It happened on the 2nd of October, it feels like it's a world away and yet very fresh all at once, with everything that's happened since.
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We all have had things happen to us some good some bad,
I mean ALL of us. Me personally I'm rattled with guilt about how my best friend and mywonderful piggie died.
I'd swop 5 years of my life to have I warm cuddle again with him. But we have to dig deep and focus on now and the future. xx
 
See, I told you you weren't alone in this, look how much everyone cares and wants the best for you and the girls.

Like I said originally we will all be here to help you find a way through this situation,
It sounds like at the moment it's a waiting game for Ceri to be given the all clear, after that you can start the bonding process :)
I would even happily Skype or have a phone call with you while it's happening so your not doing it alone :)
 
We are all here to support you. We respect any decision you make and we won't tell you off. You know your piggies and your situation and what you can and can't do/cope with. We care and will do what we can to advise you of the best way to go forward.
 
Sometimes so much bad happens in a short time it totally overwhelms us and makes us question our ability to cope with the decisions we have made and the actions we have taken. Recently I have been in that place so I sympathise with you and send you my very best wishes and loads of hugs. I can tell from the posts you have made that you are an amazing piggie owner who knows her stuff and cares very deeply. Ceri owes her life to you, what happend between your other girls was unpredicable and not your fault, please don't blame yourself. We will all support you in whatever decision you make. Talking to the lady you know at the rescue sounds like a very good idea.
 
Hi. I can totally relate to what you are going through and know how hard it can hit you. I'm just 6 months of owning 3 sows I have had a pregnancy, 2 huge fallouts and a death. I have gone from a happy trio to 2 single sows and a trio and now one has passed I have a trio and a single sow that will not mix in any way. I've tried it all.

It's heartbreaking when things don't work out and your post shows just how much you care. I can't offer any advice as I'm still struggling to sort out the mess I'm in but just know, you're not alone.

I stopped posting on here for a while as I was ashamed to admit I couldn't cope and was struggling but people here have been so supportive.
 
You are among friends here who understand, won't judge and will support you every step of the way. Never be ashamed to admit you can't cope. If we haven't been there yet we probably will. Yes we have our fun and our silly ways but we are all friends (friends we have yet to meet) and we are there for each other in times of need. We support each other without judgement and we respect whatever anyone decides is the best for them and their piggies in the circumstances that they find themselves in. We are an understanding forum who will help anyone who needs it.
 
((((Hugs)))) you have nothing to be embarrassed about. When I got Dozy and Jet they were rescued as a bonded pair - but weren't. Thankfully the rescue neutered as a matter of course. Having has Jet fight with Dozy I was so terrified of bonding him that I decided I would try sows and youngsters at that. I was then offered Biscuit who is a bossy old cow. I was panic stricken. Then of course all the illness and by the time Biscuit collapsed for the second time I was wondering if they would be better in a rescue than with an imbecile like me.

You are a good piggy mum and I often say when things overwhelm me to stop thinking about them and do the bare minimum and the answer will come to me. I think you need to just do whatever is the bare minimum for now. They will be OK for a short while (by all means weigh Luna if you move her). When you feel strong enough you can then attempt to bond.

With Jet and Biscuit she did all the snorting and teeth chattering so I put them side by side and each day swapped toys and tunnels etc between them. She did eventually mellow and accept that as a handsome boar he would rumble and he did accept that the terms of having a friend was that she was top pig. I do however hate bonding with a passion, I has sepsis and was in hospital when Jet and Dozy fell out I had to give instructions to hubby, I do wonder whether I did the right thing at the time but they attacked each other 3 weeks later with Jet chewing through the barrier to get to Dozy xx getting help may be the way forward as they will be more impartial about bonding behaviour.
 
Hi, I am not experienced in bonding I'm afraid so I can't offer advise or support with this, sorry :( But I do know that what happened wasn't your fault so please don't blame yourself. These funny gorgeous little animals sure do test us humans at times. My late Pedro was extremely fickle & tested my patience sometimes.You're doing a great job :luv: I'm sending you hugs and positive vibes xx
 
Thank you all, everyone. I'm so grateful for you guys I can't even put it into words.

Last night I went home and had a good cry. Just got it out of my system.

Then I was very very naughty and I breached quarantine >.> Ceri still has a week to go, but she's showing no signs of relapse. I hope she doesn't now >.< I took her out of her cage and into the bigguns' room. I didn't touch anything, but I leaned down by Luna's section of the C&C and showed Ceri to her from a distance of about 6 inches. She came running up to see her and staaaaaared, like "OMG WHAT IS THAT?!?!" Ceri got very excited and started wheeking at her, Luna gave a little peep back then went on a popcorn spree. It was -lovely-.
 
Awww! That's sooooo lovely! lets hope Luna and Ceri get on when they are introduced properly.
 
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