Mixed herd bonding fail

Lisa07

Lisa07

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Hi,

I hope you can help.

1 month ago I adopted a neutered boar (18 m) and a sow (8 m) from the RSPCA to join my trio of sows 1 is 8 m and 2 sisters at 6 months.

The trio were never close but tolerated each other with the occasional squabble between the sisters. A couple of fights but no blood shed just some fur pulling. I extended there cage (4x8ft) and they seemed to calm down.

The bonding went well, I left them in a neutral space for over 24 hours to make sure they were ok. I cleaned and disinfected everything before putting them together in a pig playpen with 6 hidey houses and several areas with food/hay/water so everyone had access. The pen was 4 ft by 10 ft and is in the living room so I can keep an eye on them.

The hierarchy seemed to be ok except for the new sow (blossom) and the lowest ranking female of the trio (Fern). A bit of chasing and hair pulling no blood shed so I just monitored them. I thought it was just them trying to sort out their position in the herd.

Last week I noticed Fern becoming withdrawn and hiding and the occasional tuft of her hair. Blossom has become really aggressive to Fern. Teeth chattering, chasing, following her and nipping with ferns fur in her mouth. Willow (Fern’s sister) had also started to do the same to Fern. which seemed odd as Fern has always had the lowest rank in the trio. The tufts of fur were becoming a daily find. No scabs/baldness or blood on Fern so far.

Today I separated Fern with the top ranking female Olive. They get on ok, although Olive is a madam and a bit stroppy she doesn’t bite or pull fur. Fern was becoming depressed, was becoming increasingly scared to come out of a hidey and eat or join the others.

Have I done the right thing in breaking up the herd?

Fern seems happier. Sunny the boy and Olive are missing each other but they can see each other. Willow and Blossom are not bothered.

I have spit the pen, Fern and Olive are in a 4x4 ft part and sunny, willow and blossom are in a 6x4ft. They are all next to each other.

I am sad to break them up but hopefully in a few months I can try and re-bond the group again.

any advice or feedback would be great appreciated.

thanks
Lisa
 
Hi

Merging bonded pairs that are both fully grown is a tricky bonding because one side has to step down from their leadership, and that is the point where these kind of bonds of often fail.

If your bullied piggy is clearly happy to be out of the situation, then this is a very strong indication that the bonding has failed. Once piggies have made up that they do not suit, they will not change their mind. You will unfortunately have to live with the fact that your single big group has to remain a dream.

Any bonding ultimately stands or falls down over whether your piggies want to be all together or not. You cannot make them and you cannot dictate the individual dynamics that develop in a group; unresolved conflicts can turn sour and interpersonal relationships can take a turn for the worse. All you can ever do is provide the best framework and then pray.

I am very sorry about the bad news but I have got enough failed group bonding attempt t-shirts in my cupboard by now to have learned that particular lesson. :(

Here is more in-depth information:
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics (see chapter on post-intro dominance phase)
Bonds In Trouble
Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour
 
It's not a disaster by any means as long as you are able to give them the space they need. And without sounding depressing I have enough experience of just getting relaxed with everyone settled and then losing a beloved piggie to cancer or an operation or a sudden heart attack and it starts all over again! It's always a dynamic situation and I try to take the view that even a failed bonding gives each pig experiences and enrichment of knowing other piggies. You definitely did the right thing here as your little sow would have been miserable being bullied and tense all the time waiting for it to happen x

I've just had a protracted getting-to-know-you month with 2 girls and a boy. Flora was always going to be dominant but Louise is soooo timid that I don't think Flora got the necessary signals to let her know she could stop being such a pushy cow. Louise hid for 2 weeks solid and the only reason I stuck with it was that there was no hair pulling, biting or fighting at all! Louise now comes out for a little walk and 80% of the time Flora doesn't chase her back in so nearly there. Flora has a history of being bullied herself and she was underweight when we got her so I think she was just a bit too enthusiastic now it's her turn to be top sow.

When I had 2 pairs (girl/girl and boy/girl) they hung out at the bars together all the time and seemed to get on so well that after a few months I took a chance at putting everyone on the grass together and very quickly saw my mistake! Old tensions were immediately apparent. After that there was tension at the bars for a while until everything calmed down and they felt reassured that their own side was definitely their own territory, that it was safe, and that silly hooman wasn't going to mess up the piggy rules any more! Good fences make good neighbours 😉
 
hello and welcome to the forum
I think you did the right thing. I have ended up with four piggies, two in one cage and two in another! I got my two bereaved girls a young neutered boar after their beloved Ted died and thought it would be a doddle! To my surprise the girls temporarily fell out in the bonding pen (They we’re fine after five minutes) but that left poor Hector lonely and desperate to be with them. So we ended up bonding Hector with a baby girl called Kiki, they are such a happy little couple. I like you would love to have them all together in one cage but I know the possibility of that is very remote, so I will leave things be
 
Hi all,

so I tried over Christmas to rebond my two small herds again (a duo and a trio). They managed to keep together for two weeks but it didn’t work out. The chasing and fur pulling was getting worse over the 2 week period so I separated them again. It’s a shame as everyone gets on well except for one.

They will remain neighbours 🙂 in a 2x8 ft space each.
 
It sounds like you have done the right thing.
I had the same issues with a herd of five that had to be split, and everyone was much happier in their smaller groups.
The idea of a huge herd is appealing, but it can be a tricky issue to get personalities that all work together.
 
It does make me wonder, when you see the thousands of wildebeest migrating across Africa, whether they all get on or whether some of them just hate each other and are quite happy when their nemesis gets eaten by lions. We just assume they're all in it together - but I bet they're not!
 
I guess they have more room to move away from the ones they don’t like.

You would have thought a massive 10x4 feet space would have allowed 5 pigs to work things out. I think my pigs needed an African plain 🤣 hahaha.

They are happy living next to each other. Lots of popcorning 😍
 
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