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My poorly William - Any advice PLEASE.

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Whats also strange, is that today, my lungs sound exactly like you described William's lol

Maybe you need to get to the vet :))

William is VERY subdued at the moment, he has Alan snuggling him and he has nibbled on a little cos lettuce.

He is due a hand feed in a wee while, so I collected some poops from the twins to make a delicious poopsoup. They were both more than willing to produce some hefty numbers for it! So *fingers crossed*
 
BIG HUG

I wish I could be of better help.
 
Is Baytril an antibiotic or has he add any antibiotics? If he has try feeding him plain unsweetened yogurt with probiotics. Yes I kno guineas aren't suppost to have dairy, but it helps to keep the good bacteria balanced. If you can't get william to eat the yogurt you can add a little bit of jelly.

I fed yogurt to my baby piggy when she was on antibiotics.

Sorry about William
IHorseCarzzy5
 
Ive just found your thread. I'm so sorry your boy is so unwell.

I would only suggests several things. He needs more investigation by a very good vet to find out whats wrong with him. Xrays, ultrasound, blood sample and if neccessary even an exlap. (surgery to find out whats going on inside). You cant treat him properly without knowing whats wrong with him. I would also suggest the vet prescribing more drugs, especially more antibiotics. If its an internal abscess then in cats/dogs you would probably use three different types of antibiotics. So maybe your boy needs something like baytril, metronidazole and septrin to properly fight a internal infection. Obviously with this you will need lots of probiotics too.

I really hope he starts picking up too. I would really advise seeing a specialist if your getting no diagnosis to start some really agressive treatment to get your boy well again.

Let us know how you get on.
Lots of hugs sent your way!
x.
 
William's had all sorts of tests, ultrasounds, bloods, urines - NOTHING has shown up.

He's been on Baytril for 3 weeks this Monday, he gets poop soups from the other piggies presents, bio lapis and Metatone; he also has vitamin additives too.

Thank you for your suggestion of the other antibiotics. If he makes it through the night I will whizz him straight to the vets in the morning.
 
Hiya,

I'm a bit confused by what's been done on William you say everything but everything is a lot of things. When they took blood - did they do full bloodwork's? Showing results for the Kidney's and liver's etc?

Could you give us a list of what's been done and how it was done, also when?

Is William eating normally? I know he's losing weight but how is his eating? Are his stools normal sized?
 
Just re-read your thread could have sworn I saw Blood work had been done but see it hasn't perhaps it's worth considering.

Has he been checked for Glucose in his urine, although he seems to have lost his appetite, so that would account for the lose in weight.

Perhaps it's worthwhile to have dental Xrays done - see if anything is going on with his teeth.

I really do think you and your vet will need to work together and just keep doing test's until you get to the bottom of his problems.

At least you can be certain he doesn't have stones, have they checked his urine for blood?

Might be worthwhile asking advice on GuineaLynx.
 
I'm sorry I cant help but I really feel for you! Its such a massive worry - come on William stop being naughty and scaring your mum! xx
 
Just re-read your thread could have sworn I saw Blood work had been done but see it hasn't perhaps it's worth considering.

Has he been checked for Glucose in his urine, although he seems to have lost his appetite, so that would account for the lose in weight.

Perhaps it's worthwhile to have dental Xrays done - see if anything is going on with his teeth.

I really do think you and your vet will need to work together and just keep doing test's until you get to the bottom of his problems.

At least you can be certain he doesn't have stones, have they checked his urine for blood?

Might be worthwhile asking advice on GuineaLynx.

Sorry yes he's had blood tests done and nothing came up on them, they came back normal.

Urine tests came back normal no proteins, no blood, no extra anything in his urine. Vets check his teeth every time to make sure he's not got spurs/they're not overgrowing, etc. He eats a tonne of hay too and he's still eating food we put infront of him including very crunchy pellets. He also gets hand fed mushy pellets and poop soups.

Took him BACK to the vets this morning to be x-rayed and the x-ray also showed a normal, but very skinny guinea body. No stones or anything.

We're making sure William gets time away from Alan & Clive, so he can have chillout time, but when he's with them, they give him space and time anyways.

I'm just at a complete loss as to what other avenues we can go down! I'm going to take him back to the vets on Monday and see if there are any other tests we can do. I wish he could just let me know where it hurts. malletheadmalletheadmallethead
 
Sorry yes he's had blood tests done and nothing came up on them, they came back normal.

Urine tests came back normal no proteins, no blood, no extra anything in his urine. Vets check his teeth every time to make sure he's not got spurs/they're not overgrowing, etc. He eats a tonne of hay too and he's still eating food we put infront of him including very crunchy pellets. He also gets hand fed mushy pellets and poop soups.

Took him BACK to the vets this morning to be x-rayed and the x-ray also showed a normal, but very skinny guinea body. No stones or anything.

We're making sure William gets time away from Alan & Clive, so he can have chillout time, but when he's with them, they give him space and time anyways.

I'm just at a complete loss as to what other avenues we can go down! I'm going to take him back to the vets on Monday and see if there are any other tests we can do. I wish he could just let me know where it hurts. malletheadmalletheadmallethead

How did the Vet do the Blood test's?
 
The vet took the blood from his scruff bit, behind his head.

I do hope this is right or the vet has carried out some seriously wrong blood tests :...

All I know (I looked away for the most part as it made me want to cry for William) is William didn't like it and it definitely went in there with the needle.

Although I've just read on Guinealynx there is a way of doing it via toenails?
 
The vet took the blood from his scruff bit, behind his head.

I do hope this is right or the vet has carried out some seriously wrong blood tests :...

All I know (I looked away for the most part as it made me want to cry for William) is William didn't like it and it definitely went in there with the needle.

Although I've just read on Guinealynx there is a way of doing it via toenails?

Did they do a pin prick test? What did they test for?

When Milo, had his bloodwork done - full blood works he was given a GA and the blood took from the Vena Cava. My vet said this was the only way to get enough blood for the tests.

Bette had a pin prick behind the ears - that was to test diabetes.
 
No not full bloodworks it was the diabetes test. But it wasn't his ear, it was definitely in his scruff. ?/ I'm so confused now as to whether this was ok for William or not, and I hope I haven't hurt him in anyway.

I don't think William would cope with a GA for full bloodworks. He's literally skin and bones :(

Will definitely be taking him back on Monday and sorting out more tests if there are some more available.
 
The vet took the blood from his scruff bit, behind his head.

I do hope this is right or the vet has carried out some seriously wrong blood tests :...

All I know (I looked away for the most part as it made me want to cry for William) is William didn't like it and it definitely went in there with the needle.

Although I've just read on Guinealynx there is a way of doing it via toenails?

I think this is the horrible practise some vets carry out when they cut the quick to get blood :)>>> Think this is inhumane and would not allow anyone to do it to one of my piggies 8...
 
I think this is the horrible practise some vets carry out when they cut the quick to get blood :)>>> Think this is inhumane and would not allow anyone to do it to one of my piggies 8...

My vet said the same.

I don't think you will have did anything to hurt William it's good diabetes has been ruled out but it does mean there are a lot more tests that can be done.
 
Phew.

Sorry I know my posts have become a little confusing - I'm just so all over the place with trying to get him better!

What can I suggest to the vets (they love that) as to where to go next?

I appreciate all the help everyone has/is giving, as does William.
 
William update.

So we have been to the vets, AGAIN!

The vet wants to do another urine test, this time or Cushings Disease.

Anyone have any experience with this?!
 
William DOESN'T have cushings or diabetes!

The vet HAS managed to find some protein & blood in William's wee (something NOT previously found!) the levels were EXTREMELY low, so he's going for ANOTHER X-ray tomorrow!

The vet said it could be a teeny tiny stone that was previously missed!

*Fingerscrossed* we FINALLY get to the bottom of this!
 
SECOND x-ray done. STILL nothing is showing up.

Vet wants to try another urine sample and a FULL blood sample (but not until his weight has increased a little).

He's on different antibiotics now!

For godness sake William STOP being an enigma!
 
Poor William and poor you what a lot for him to go through!

I hope they find out what is going on :( x
 
Just received an email from my little sister regarding William as I am at work.

'Have just picked up William, nothing on the x-ray just some pockets of gas.

Have been given different antibiotics as well as some critical care (even though he hates it!) We need to get another wee sample to hand in on Thursday evening. If he's still not right we're looking at a proper blood sample and another ultrasound.

William is currently enjoying some porridge, carrots and dandelions :D! He misses his mummy lots x'


Flamin' heck! William what's going on!
 
I'm finding it difficult to follow what's happening with William so want to ask a few questions to clarify exactly what his symptoms are

You say he has lost a lot of weight. What was his normal weight, how much has he lost and over what period of time?

You mention you are hand feeding him...but I'm not sure what you mean by this. Is it that you are feeding him separately from Alan to ensure he is eating enough. You mention you are supplementing with mushed nuggets/critical care? If so how much? Is he eating ANY normal dried food? Is he eating normal amounts of hay and veggies? If not, how long has he been on reduced food intake? Are you having to actually FORCE feed him (ie he wont take anything on his own accord, not even a syringe?)


Apart from weight loss, I note you made reference to another passing symptom of noisy breathing. How long did this last? Had he been outside prior to this happening?

Are these the only two symptoms?

For instance, are his poos normal size/consistency/frequency and is he weeing and drinking properly? Has he increased his water consumption in the last few months?
You mentioned him being lethargic...what do you mean by this? is he not moving around, is he sleeping more soundly or more frequently, is he facing the corner of the cage?

Why did the vet think he had an abcess in his abdomen (were swollen lymph nodes identified?) and does the vet still think this?

Finally has his coat lost any condition? Is he shedding a lot of hair?

Moving on to what it could be...
The most common causes for weight loss are dental issues and pain from something like urinary stones..or in an older piggie, arthritis. Pain relief with something like metacam can often get a piggie eating again. Infections are normally treatable with antibioitics so improvement would be seen (provided you have identified the bug and are using the right antibioitic). It is often the case that despite tests being done, these conditions are not diagnosed properly at first and a second opinion by a more cavy savvy vet is often helpful.
Once these have been (Properly) ruled out then other possible issues are
  • Heart problems (enlarged heart may be seen on Xray plus fluid around the lungs/pericardium....you often can;t detect piggie heart problems with a stethoscope). Treatable with fortekor and frusemide
  • Metabolic disease (ie diabetes, cushings) see below
  • Kidney or liver problems (blood test required)
  • Lymphoma/leukaemia (blood test required which will show a high lymphocyte count and possibly anaemia)


Diabetes can be ruled out by a pin-prick blood test which it sounds like has already been done. It certainly doesn;t sound like William has Cushings. This would present with bilateral hair loss, increased thirst and you would need to do ultrasonography to measure the size of the adrenal glands or a special test where a chemical is given and blood tests are taken before and after, (Urine cortisol measurement is not in itself a diganosis, it is not very accurate as it fluctuates throughout the day and peaks under times of stress (such as being at the vets), and in any case there is no recognised reference level for healthy guinea pigs)

I think that a full blood test (which is a risky procedure carried out under GA) is the only way to go if dental/stones/pain/infection has been ruled out. Personally I would make sure my vets had performed this procedure enough times before on guinea pigs such that they are confident in doing it...otherwise I would find another vet who was.

I have had several piggies with unexplained weight loss so I know how furstrating it can be..two had full blood work done and came back with high lymphocyte counts and anaemia although they showed no swollen lymph nodes .:(..they are now on high dose steroids (prednisone)

Finally gas in the intestines on Xray could be an early sign that his digestive system is slowing down because he is not eating properly so keep an eye on his poo output as he may in time need a gut stimulant.

HTH - please provide a full picture of ALL his actual symptoms (and indicate if they are current or past and how long the lasted) as it might help narrow things down.

x
 
Ok here we go! Apologies as it is going to be very long!

William and Keith were both 2lb 2oz back in January and then at the beginning of May Keith died, due to a URI and William's weight dropped to 1lb 14oz - we of course were worried and took him to the vets to make sure he DIDN'T have a URI and he didn't, he had a thorough check over and he was absolutely fine.

Kept him in quarantine for a a little over two weeks,his weight gradually was re-gained and he was a rotund 2lb 1oz. Then at the end of May we got him Alan & Clive from a rescue (they were just under 4 weeks). His weight crept back up again and he was 2lb 3oz.

He was happy and everything and they all settled in together.

About 4 almost 5 weeks ago we noticed William's weight was dropping again so we started to feed him seperately from the other two, which he happily tucked into and his weight went back to normal. Then a few days later his weight dropped dramatically.

So we took him to the vets where the vet gave him a thorough check and thought he may have an infection as his teeth, ears, eyes, bum and temperature were fine, so he put him on a cautionary 7 days of Baytril.

The course of Baytril helped keep him from losing anymore weight then he came off of it. He was off Baytril for 3-4 days and his weight KEPT dropping so we kept taking him out for feeds, from fresh greens, a little watered down oats every now and again to try and get his weight up. At the same time his eyes went a little crusty so we thought it may be a URI like Keith, so we took him back to the vet.

This time unfortunately as it was an emergency appointment our usual vet wasn't there. William was put on another course of Baytril and his weight crept back up a few ounces to 1lb 14oz but again once that had finished it either dropped back down or plateaued(sp) at around 1lb 12oz.

Which of course was not good. So we took him back to the vet who did a diabetes pin prick test from the scruff of his neck behind his ear area PLUS an ultrasound (check his organs and things). BOTH of these tests came back NEGATIVE.

He was put on Critical Care which he HATED.

So we kept syringe feeding and one morning about my little sister bought him inside and his chest was making a weird noise like a cooing pigeon noise so we rushed him into the vets (again) the vet was the usual cavvy savy vet. But by the time we got down there the noise had stopped and she had a listen to his heart, etc and said there was NOTHING there abnormal. The only conclusion for this weird noise was a possible bit of food swallowed down the wrong tube. But the vet was happy he was ok, but couldn’t pin point why the weight loss.

We kept on hand feeding and taking him out from the boys in case it was stress, but his weight kept dropping, so he went back to the vets and the vet again wasn't the usual vet and he thought it was an abcess in his intestine/stomach, which he gave us Baytril for (looking back now, it was stupid of us to think Baytril would touch an abcess, but we were desperate and so worried.)

So he was on Baytril...AGAIN for three weeks. 

His weight gained again and he got back up to 1lb 12oz and then plateaued until the Thursday just gone (28th July) he dropped to 1lb 9oz. So we kept him on the course of Baytril but then on the Saturday just gone the 30th of July, we were so worried about him, so he went to the vets for an x-ray to see if there was anything on there, there was NOTHING.



The vet told us to continue with the Baytril until it ended (yesterday) so we could see our usual cavvy savy guy. 

He said he would do a urine test for cushings disease which also came back negative, but came back with protein and blood in it, then he requested we took iIlliam back this morning for another x-ray, to double check they didn’t miss something.

So this morning I took him back down to the vets and got William back this afternoon and there was nothing on the x-ray again, bar some gassy areas.

 We have now been given Septrin for him 0.8ml for 7 days. He is having another urine test on Friday - 48 hours after the Septrin has kicked in, to see if that is helping the blood & protein in his urine. 

If it hasn’t he will be needing full bloods under a GA, which I’m not sure if he’ll survive as his weight is the lowest it’s ever been at 1lb 4oz :(



He’s back on Critical Care - which he is reluctantly taking via syringe.



During this WHOLE process he has been handfed mushed up pellets via a 1ml syringe - and as much as we could get into him, this fluctuated from 7mls to 33mls during the course of this process. He was fed three times a day.



He was also on Metatone, which started about 2 weeks ago, he also gets Bio-Lapis for his tummy. 

We’ve watched how much he is weeing and pooping and it’s no more/less than usual. His drinking did increase though.

His poops have been a little smaller, but the vet said this could be due to him not eating as much as he has been. 

He’s had no loss of coat/coat condition.



William is still full of beans though, very alert and is ALWAYS wanting food, just not putting the weight on. He have his lethargic and quiet moments, but I’m not surprised he’s poorly and we don’t know what’s wrong!



Sorry this is so long and I’m sorry this thread has been so confusing. I’m rubbish when it comes to poorly piggies and have been all over the place, trying to figure out what’s up with him!



Apologies I don’t have exact dates from the beginning of the year, they are all stored on a spreadsheet on my sisters computer, I only have the weigh-ins from the past 6 weeks sat in front of me on a written piece of paper, so some dates may be off by a day or so/some weights may be out by an ounce as I’m trying to remember.



Hope this now all makes sense and thanks for getting to the end!
 
I'm very relieved to hear both Cushings and Diabetes have been ruled out!

Let's hope they can get to the bottom of his weight loss :{

Dear William, whee sending you lots of loving wheeeeeeks xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

p.s. whee would send you some of our greeen spaghetti but mummy said it would be yukky....sowwy but whee did think of you xoxo
 
Thank you for putting fown the history but I am still unclear as to his actual symptoms apart from the weight loss which has dropped alarmingly from 990 to 570g. I'm not surprised the vets want him to put some weight back on before doing a full blood test and to be honest I think that if dental problems have been properly ruled out (and I'm not sure they have) then a full blood test is the only step to determine the problem and needs to be done sooner rather than later.


You say he is always interested in food - so does this mean he is eating his normal amount of veggies, dried food and hay.....and you are also giving him extra on top? Yet later you say the vet says he may have reduced food intake because of smaller poos? Which is it?

You say he is full of beans but then you say he is lethargic and poorly? Can you be more specific about his behaviour please?


The reason I'm being a bit pedantic is because it is imperative to establish if his food intake is actually reduced and therefore the reason for the weight loss as that is much easier to deal with (and in view of the amount he's lost over so little time, would be the most logical explanation). If on the other hand he is eating normally it would therefore suggest metabolic or other issues and a blood test is necessary.Having spent the last two years working with my vet on my own guinea pigs unexplained weight loss we finally have a possible diganosis but still aren;t entirely sure.

My first thought on this is that IF he hasn;t been eating properly/normally then his teeth will have in any case started to overgrow. Does he pick up food and put it down again or lose interest quickly? Unless your vets put him out under GA, thoroughly cleaned out his mouth and inspected it properly they could have missed problems with the back molars. When were his teeth last inspected? You will need someone to do it without GA because he is so underweight and therefore it might be a good idea to check when Simon Maddock is available at Cat and Rabbit in Northampton and make the journey as he is the best vet for spotting guinea pig dental problems without GA. Before a dental inspection, withdraw all food/hay at least two hours before hand and give him nothing but cucumber with the skin off as it helps clean out the green gunk from his mouth that hides the molars.

Next, if you are sure he's eating properly with no dental issues, then you need to get his weight up to get the blood test done...this means agressively syringe feeding to ensure he gets at least 60-70ml critical Care/pellet mush per day on top of anything else he will eat. A vitamin B12 injection may help stimulate his apetite..disucss this with your vet. It may also be worth considering separating him so you can monitor his food intake and poo output properly and ensure he has food available at all times. If the vet still thinks he has an infection (can;t think why if his temperature is normal - have they found swollen lymph nodes?) then it is worth considering a poo culture and switching antibiotics - maybe try septrin and see if this helps.

If you are getting another Xray done then ask them to look properly at both his teeth roots and his heart (and refer them to this article on guinea lynx showing Xrays of heart pigs, many of which had normal heart sounds
http://www.guinealynx.info/heart.html


Also ask them to confirm that he has no swollen lymph nodes.

Hopefully he will put on some weight to enable a full blood sample to be taken. The blood test will need to look at differential white/red cell counts, hormone levels (such as thyroid) kidney and liver function, and glucose levels ie full haematology and biochemistry.

If he doesn;t gain weight (or continues to lose it) then it might be worth discussing with your vet giving him steroids as to be honest by this time you will have nothing to lose....my piggie is on 1mg/kg prednisone daily having had a blood test showing anaemia and high lymphocyte count. He is very active, eats normally but so far has lost 250g over a period of 5months. Pred is now helping him maintain his (lower) weight and giving him extra guinea pig years. Beware though that steroids are immunosuppressive and should not be given if the vet suspects he has any type of infection and he should not have had any non-steroidal drugs (eg metacam) for at least 24 hours before steroid administration

HTH
x
 
With regards to his food intake, he is eating as much as he usually ate - we've had him out many times to monitor this. He's not lost interest in food at all, in fact he is always asking us for more. He's ALWAYS got a supply of hay, which he demolishes in seconds. He's allowed to eat as many pellets, handfuls of hay and anything else which may boost him up as possible at the moment.

And we were feeding him extra mushy pellets to try and encourage weight gain. It has only been the past few days where his poops have been smaller, so the vet thought it could be him not eating as much as he is getting a little weaker as he gets skinnier. We have tried to monitor his eating as much as possible, but unfortunately we can't watch them 24/7 as much as we like to try!

The usual vet we have is a very cavvy savy as he is an exotic vet and he checks his teeth every time thoroughly - he hasn't had his teeth checked under a GA, but it's something I will suggest to the vets.

I don't know if they checked the latest x-ray for his teeth, but I will be calling today and see if they could see anything on there. Why didn't I think of that malletheadmallethead

His behaviour will range from day to day, one day he will be joining in with the boys plodding along doing everyday guinea pig activities and other days he will prefer to sit in his bed just eating.

We've got all the boys inside today so we can monitor William and we are watching him like a hawk. The Critical Care was started last night, much to his disgust and we are aggressively feeding him it at 2 scoops 4 times a day. He also started Septrin last night and is on 0.8ml for 7 days, with another urine test on Friday and if that comes back inconclusive then it's time for a FULL bloods culture under a GA. But again we have to get his weight up first.

When they x-rayed him yesterday they had a proper look at his heart, lungs, kidneys (all his organs basically) there was nothing enlarged on there. I will ring them and ask them about the lymph nodes too.

Thank you for your suggestion with steroids.

I am taking this all on board and will be contacting the vets about it all.

Thank you for taking your time out and reading it and suggesting things, it really is appreciated as I just want to get William well.
 
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