Neutering: just some angry rumbling

[Piggyologist]

I know this will bring down an avalanche of criticism, but still, can't stop saying it.

I'm not talking here about people who absolutely had to neuter/spay, because the pets they got were mis-sexed, or a rescue and it's that or a guaranteed dead animal or similar.

How about when people have a choice? A pack of sows,for example, but they are getting a boar instead of another sow and, of course, are hurriedly butchering him, quite possibly killing during the process and no doubt, subjecting to an excruciating amount of suffering if he/she survive at all (and vice versa: spaying).

It's plain stupid to not think a second in advance before getting another animal of opposite sex. If you're not a rescue, it's a piece of cake to get all animals of the same sex rehomed (again, unless they were mis-sexed). The problem is, people, especially less experienced ones, don't understand the risks involved and should be more informed of what neutering process is. How about a bit of common sense: if you cut someone's private parts off what does that feel like? That's exactly what neutering is: they do remove pet's private parts. Now if we apply it to humans, sounds absolutely horrible, doesn't it. But people don't hesitate doing it to their pets for some reason.

There should be more discussions about this: it's just not good enough to listen to all the sob stories of a pig dying a horrible painful death, because someone didn't have the brain to think twice before rehoming opposite sex of what they've got in the herd already.

 

[Doeylicious]

How about when people have a choice? A pack of sows,for example, but they are getting a boar instead of another sow

To answer your first question - because it is the most responsible way of mimicing their natural lifestyle. In the wild one boar would live within a herd of sows, and they would breed to keep the species going. In the home environment, breeding is not desired or necessary, so it is responsible and sensible to neuter the male. Furthermore, a male/female pairing is often much more stable in the long term than a same sex pairing, providing a more stable environment for the pigs.

and, of course, are hurriedly butchering him, quite possibly killing during the process and no doubt, subjecting to an excruciating amount of suffering if he/she survive at all (and vice versa: spaying).

A decent vet will not 'quite possibly kill' the animal - for my vet a guinea neuter is no more difficult than a cat, dog or rabbit. She has in fact recently neutered several rats, and a couple of degus, who are even smaller. By asking the right questions you can ensure your vet is more than capable and will use the right anaesthetic, suture material etc, and most importantly give you the right advice for the aftercare.

As for the 'excruciating amount of suffering' - my Dodge was popcorning three days after his neuter...not the advisable method of recovery, but nonetheless, I do not think he was writhing in agony.

It's plain stupid to not think a second in advance before getting another animal of opposite sex.

Quite agree, a lot of people do think carefully though and make the decision to do so, they don't just jump at it and get one.

If you're not a rescue, it's a piece of cake to get all animals of the same sex rehomed (again, unless they were mis-sexed).

I am not quite sure what you mean here, but presume you mean if you are Joe Public getting two guineas it is very easy to get two of the same sex...fairly sure a lot of the 'pets at home special' victims on here would disagree! And before you say 'they should have gone to a rescue' you yourself have advocated the benefits of getting animals from freeads, which are almost as bad as P@H for flogging missexed animals, so if someone isn't aware of rescues/falls victim to a cute piggie in the petshop, it is sadly quite easy to get a missexed pair

The problem is, people, especially less experienced ones, don't understand the risks involved and should be more informed of what neutering process is. How about a bit of common sense: if you cut someone's private parts off what does that feel like? That's exactly what neutering is: they do remove pet's private parts. Now if we apply it to humans, sounds absolutely horrible, doesn't it. But people don't hesitate doing it to their pets for some reason.

Are you saying, therefore we should stop neutering cats, dogs, rabbits? An unneutered male cat can create over 1000 descendants. That's 1000 cats with no guaranteed homes, left as strays, ending up no doubt in rescue. Not really responsible is it? The difference is human men can (largely) control their 'urges' and not 'get friendly' with every woman they meet on the street. They know humping their sister is probably a stupid idea, and doing the same to their mother is too. Animals don't, simple as.

It is very, very easy to find out the risks of neutering a guinea pig. A google search flags up not just this forum but also guinea lynx and cavy spirit, three excellent sites. More to the point, most people don't even think of neutering their piggy unless the have a health reason or have a falling out, get advice from more knowledgeable people and look into it deeper - because it isn't routine it's not just on the to do list like it is with a larger animal.

There should be more discussions about this: it's just not good enough to listen to all the sob stories of a pig dying a horrible painful death, because someone didn't have the brain to think twice before rehoming opposite sex of what they've got in the herd already.

Thank you for telling half the forum members they don't have a brain. I do advocate same sex pairings wherever possible, but sometimes you have to look at the pig and their personality and say you know what, will the risks outweigh the benefits? I don't regret getting my three boys done for a second - and before you ask, no I did not specifically get boys to go with girls I already had, one was on his own when I got him and I didn't know about boar dating back then so we were lucky enough to find a lovely girl via here, and the other two fell out of their pairing and ditto the above, and girls were found for them too/bonded with girls I already had.

You just have to look at them wrapped around their 'wives' of a night to see they are as happy as I could have made them, and for the sake of three days on metacam, two weeks cage rest, and a moderate vet bill, I think the rest of their (hopefully long) lives will make up for it.

 

[ghostbusterbunny]

I can't really add anything to Doey's post; it is excellent and covers everything I could have thought of.

However, I have one neutered boy from rescue. I'm not sure why he was neutered; either there had been no luck finding him a friend, or he was just best to be paired up with a girl. He had excellent aftercare thanks to the experience of the lady who runs the rescue, making sure he was clean, healthy and healing up well. 4 weeks later we met him, as did my ASBO-pig Teaser (who we could not pair up with a sow as she was extremely aggressive to them). Chip and Teaser are now a happily married couple. If I take Chip out and hold him near the hutch he wriggles and squeaks to his lady and tries to get back to her. It's beautiful; he fulfils his natural need to be with a female, and she in turn gets the company she never would have had if no one neutered piggies.

About 5 years ago I had to have a sow spayed due to medical reasons. She was put in with my old man-pig who was 6 and nearly blind. Their relationship was both beautiful and heartbreaking; she got him food, snuggled up to him to keep him warm, and guided him around when he couldn't see where he was going. When he died she died of heartbreak a couple of weeks later, despite our efforts to help her out. That's how deep their relationship was. She passed too soon, but she had the depth of companionship that I have NEVER seen in my entire life and in the time she got to share with Oscar, she was the happiest pig I've ever known. Thinking about it makes me cry actually, because it was so bittersweet. I hope Chip and Teaser get that in time.

I will soon have a large herd of 13 sows. I will be looking to give one lucky boar the chance to have the natural life he deserves if circumstances have dictated he'd be happier/better off in the long run neutered.

 

[ghostbusterbunny]

Thanks for rubbing salt in my wound

PiggyLove, what happened to your boy was not your fault. Unfortunately life is so cruel and your choice to neuter was made in the knowledge that your boy would have been a very happy man with lady friends to keep him company. It's not your fault that he died; complications happen in any operation whether conducted on a guinea pig or a human. At the time you were acting in the best interests of your piggy; it's just heartbreaking that it didn't turn out how you were expecting.

*hugs* Don't let the OP upset you. Just know in your heart that you did what you thought was the best for your boy. He would have loved having lady friends - more than you know.

 

[PiggyLove]

i am ill - i struggle to live day by day by day

Piggy gave me a reason to get up, to go to shops, to care for him - he was my reason i am alive today

if only i could turn back time .............if only.......... I'm a fool and i paid a HIGH price

ADMIN delete my previous messages if you will - i got upset I'm sorry

I'm still raw with pain from my loss

 

[Suzygpr]

I have very strong opinions on neutering too. For me it's a last resort as I have had too many post-op complications, short and long term, in the past. I have not had a pig done for years, even though I have a vet that is highly experienced and I trust completely.

This thread gives other's experiences, neutering should always be a well informed, carefully considered choice. There are risks with surgery, just as there are with all surgeries but there are long term consequences that can affect pigs that many are not aware of.

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67370

Suzy x

 

[William&Keith]

When I was looking for a friend for William when Keithy died the first rescue I went to refused to try boar dating and insisted he got neutered to bond him with several girlies.

I wasn't too sure about neutering him and I didn't in the end, but if it means you are able to rescue more than two piggies and have a girly tribe with a boar then I am for it. I ended up rescuing two boars as there are SO many in rescues wanting homes and I'm pretty sure a boar cannot get another one preggo so William didn't need the op.

There are GOOD vets out there and they will look after and help your guinea pigs.

Neutering as long as it's done by a good vet and they get all the aftercare they need, then it's a good idea.

 

[Amanda1801]

I agree with everything Doey has said and cannot add much more to it.

I am very pro spay/castrate, anything that comes through my door that is large enough, goes in for the op, whether it's a dog or a guinea pig.

The benefits of spaying and castrating go far beyond preventing unwanted litters.

Removing unecessary organs (let's face it, they're unnecessary as I have no intention of breeding), immediately eliveates the risk of things like testicular tumours in males, which would develop later in life. By the time they're noticed, the dog/cat/rabbit/guinea pig would be much older, and need to have them removed anyway, but because of the increase in age, the anaesthetic and post op risks are hugely increased. We had an entire rabbit in work the other week, 10 years old, testicular torsion. Needless to say, he needed an emergency castration. Now, anaesthetics in rabbits are risky enough, without the patient being 10 years old. Needless to say, the outcome wasn't particularly good.

As for females, spaying has huge benefits again. It gets rid of the chance of ovarian cysts and tumours, uterine infections (which are deadly), and greatly reduces the risk of mammary tumours and the like. The earlier you spay, the more this risk is lowered.

No one would bat an eyelid if I told you that my dog and lady-dog (it censors the proper term!) are castrated and spayed. Infact I'd probably be congratulated for being a responsible owner.

What now when I tell you that I have a group of three boars, all castrated, and I have a castrated boar, who is in the process of being bonded with an entire sow, who I am considering spaying. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[Piggyologist]

To answer your first question - because it is the most responsible way of mimicing their natural lifestyle. In the wild one boar would live within a herd of sows, and they would breed to keep the species going. In the home environment, breeding is not desired or necessary, so it is responsible and sensible to neuter the male. Furthermore, a male/female pairing is often much more stable in the long term than a same sex pairing, providing a more stable environment for the pigs.



A decent vet will not 'quite possibly kill' the animal - for my vet a guinea neuter is no more difficult than a cat, dog or rabbit. She has in fact recently neutered several rats, and a couple of degus, who are even smaller. By asking the right questions you can ensure your vet is more than capable and will use the right anaesthetic, suture material etc, and most importantly give you the right advice for the aftercare.

As for the 'excruciating amount of suffering' - my Dodge was popcorning three days after his neuter...not the advisable method of recovery, but nonetheless, I do not think he was writhing in agony.



Quite agree, a lot of people do think carefully though and make the decision to do so, they don't just jump at it and get one.



I am not quite sure what you mean here, but presume you mean if you are Joe Public getting two guineas it is very easy to get two of the same sex...fairly sure a lot of the 'pets at home special' victims on here would disagree! And before you say 'they should have gone to a rescue' you yourself have advocated the benefits of getting animals from freeads, which are almost as bad as P@H for flogging missexed animals, so if someone isn't aware of rescues/falls victim to a cute piggie in the petshop, it is sadly quite easy to get a missexed pair



Are you saying, therefore we should stop neutering cats, dogs, rabbits? An unneutered male cat can create over 1000 descendants. That's 1000 cats with no guaranteed homes, left as strays, ending up no doubt in rescue. Not really responsible is it? The difference is human men can (largely) control their 'urges' and not 'get friendly' with every woman they meet on the street. They know humping their sister is probably a stupid idea, and doing the same to their mother is too. Animals don't, simple as.

It is very, very easy to find out the risks of neutering a guinea pig. A google search flags up not just this forum but also guinea lynx and cavy spirit, three excellent sites. More to the point, most people don't even think of neutering their piggy unless the have a health reason or have a falling out, get advice from more knowledgeable people and look into it deeper - because it isn't routine it's not just on the to do list like it is with a larger animal.



Thank you for telling half the forum members they don't have a brain. I do advocate same sex pairings wherever possible, but sometimes you have to look at the pig and their personality and say you know what, will the risks outweigh the benefits? I don't regret getting my three boys done for a second - and before you ask, no I did not specifically get boys to go with girls I already had, one was on his own when I got him and I didn't know about boar dating back then so we were lucky enough to find a lovely girl via here, and the other two fell out of their pairing and ditto the above, and girls were found for them too/bonded with girls I already had.

You just have to look at them wrapped around their 'wives' of a night to see they are as happy as I could have made them, and for the sake of three days on metacam, two weeks cage rest, and a moderate vet bill, I think the rest of their (hopefully long) lives will make up for it.

I really wanted to respond to correct inaccuracies in how you turned certain fact around, but I'm not even going to bother, since you were not quite courteous with me from the very beginning when I shared our new arrival's details on the forum and you're making it personal again.

Never said people here were dumb and anyone who isn't dumb does understand it from my original post. And no, cats and dogs are different as pigs can only hump whoever we put them in the room with, so it only depends on us. Can go on for a long time, but don't really want to mimic your behavior, plus have work to do

 

[milhaven]

Just to add my thoughts on neutering. As a rescue we get many single boars and luckily we have been able to pair most up with another boar. It is only as a last resort that we neuter boars, or of course for medical reasons. We never neuter sows unless for medical reasons, (luckily I have never had to). It is a risky operation, as is any op, but more often than not it is successful and the piggy goes on to live a happy life. In my experience of being a veterinary nurse and doing the ops, and over 25 years experience of caring for ill piggies, I can honestly say that it is very rare that the piggies suffer agonizing pain, it is a quick operation done by an experienced vet and the piggy should be almost back to normal within the day.

Sadly, some piggies dont make it, it is no-bodys fault, it just happens sometimes. We can beat ourselves up over what we should or shouldn't have done but must remember that we chose the best option for the piggy at the time.

I'm sure others have their own thoughts and ideas about neutering.

 

[Piggyologist]

I guess you may be referring to me too ") its harsh what you say but also true and ive lost my Piggy.

Awwww, honey, I wasn't referring to you at all. It was out of you control and it wasn't your fault at all!
hugs

I really didn't mean to upset you

 

[Piggyologist]

Just to add my thoughts on neutering. As a rescue we get many single boars and luckily we have been able to pair most up with another boar. It is only as a last resort that we neuter boars, or of course for medical reasons. We never neuter sows unless for medical reasons, (luckily I have never had to).

Music to my ears I think most of people think hard before neutering, but there are still people out there that don't realize that thing can go that wrong.

 

[guineagurl]

Hmmm.. You may be right. When you put it into the perspective of humans I totally agree with you...

 

[christine]

Time to close this post!

 

[lauraboara]

Although I am replying, I do hope this post will be closed soon.
As a newbie, although some of the information is informative, some of the extreme views are quite intimidating.

Just a thought from a newbie - maybe a bit too deep but keeping guinea pigs in hutches in gardens or cages in house is not the natural social set up for a guinea pig - humans have determined the boundaries. Once anyone has taken the decision to look after guinea pigs the most important thing is taking responsibilty for those boundaries and caring - which is what rescues are doing.
OK will go back to annoying newbie questions now

 

[gizmo01]

i do hope this thread gets shut it does bring out the worst in people

 

[claremw92]

i personally think this has escalated out of hand...
i can see how people have the opinions they do...
but ultimatly its the owners decision... and if the owner has the best intrests of there guinea pig at heart... and unfortunatly the guinea passes they have not done anything wrong....
neutering is all about making an informed decision...
i have a neutered bore.... and i was planning on getting thorn neutered if he lived past 6 months...
neutering is not a decision that shuld be taken lightly but equally i think i plays a very important roll...
i think neutering is a good thing and if reaserched properly and if you use a reputable vet then there is no problems with it being done...
and unfortunatly there are risks... but there are risks involved with everything...!...
and i do think that some of the views on this thread are a tad extreme... becuase at the end of the day... if a owner does something in good faith and what they believe to be the best thing for there animal then they are not in the wrong...
it gives certain bores a life they could never have... oliver could never have his 9 ladies if he wasnt neutered... they are able to mimick how they would live in real life...

 

[Runningfree]

Yeah this has got a little bit heated! I have to kind of agree with you thought to a certain point. When Stig died my OH suggested we get Winston a wifey and have him castrated. I refused, i wouldn't put him through such an unnecessary operation when there all a lot of boars looking for homes.
But there are owner that have a herd of sows and one castrated boar. It it a personal decision, while i may not agree with it, i won't judge anyone on their decision. No owner would put their piggie through the operation if they didn't think they were doing the right thing. And if stops unwanted litters then i think it is a good thing.

And PiggyLove, i hope you can find the strength to grieve for your piggie. Don't feel guilty. You have a furry little angel looking down after you from heaven!

 

[Doeylicious]

I have very strong opinions on neutering too. For me it's a last resort as I have had too many post-op complications, short and long term, in the past. I have not had a pig done for years, even though I have a vet that is highly experienced and I trust completely.

This thread gives other's experiences, neutering should always be a well informed, carefully considered choice. There are risks with surgery, just as there are with all surgeries but there are long term consequences that can affect pigs that many are not aware of.

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67370

Suzy x

I do agree with you Suzy, and would like to make it clear my response was not intended to tell everyone neutering is the only option - it was more to say why sometimes it is a viable option, and not always something terrible and upsetting, as long as it is thought through and done responsibly with the risks weighed up.

As an owner who has had three boys 'done' I am afraid I did find it quite offensive to be told I had put them through agony etc. etc. however I'm a big girl and took it on the chin (plus I knew I hadn't) - I am more concerned about members like PiggyLove who has obviously been very upset by this and really should not have been made to feel this way as her experience could have happened to ANYONE.

This thread will have made a lot of people doubt their ability as owners, especially those who are more insecure than others. I tried in my response to stand up for the other side so these people don't feel they have hurt or damaged their piggies unnecessarily, as I think it is categorically unfair to these people to be told they have 'butchered' their pets when that is far from the truth.

This forum should encourage people to learn more, look at guineas in another way than 'those little things in the pet shop', and join a strong, supportive community - not shoot them down with quite graphically worded posts when they have made a decision and stuck by it, whatever the consequences may be.

Whatever your views on neutering, being made to feel you have done something so terribly wrong and 'now look what's happened' is not on IMO.

 

[Wiebke]

I have to agree - whilst our guinea pigs are pets, they still have their social group instincts. Boars play a vital role in any larger group. They soak up a lot of the bickering that would happen otherwise and also act proactively as peace keepers and integrators within a group. Cross gender bonds are generally very stable and often very loving.

Neutering is a viable alternative especially for those boars that have real problems bonding with other boars and would have to spend a great deal of their lives on their own otherwise - not an optimal solution even if they live alongside other guinea pigs. It can also help single older or very hormonal rescue boars finding a new home much more easily than being stuck there for months on end and making it difficult to take in others.

I can accept that neutering is not everybody's cup of tea, but seeing how a neutered boar that would have otherwise been on his own after all bonding attempts failed is positively flourishing physically as well as emotionally when living the dream with a sow or a group of sows, I do not regret going down that route repeatedly and will do so again, even though Hywel, my latest boar, nearly died from complications and I would have been very upset if he had done so.

It is a well informed and researched choice, and as such has the same validity as any other decision. We each have to make our own assessment as to whether we weigh the risks higher than the chance of being able to offer a boar the most happy of lives possible. I have to add that I haven't met many forum members who have made that decision lightly or casually in my time on here because the emotional price on the owner when things go wrong is high. After all, the happiness of our piggies is paramount to most of here - even if the definition differs somewhat.

 

[AudioHeart]

There is no right or wrong answer to this question of neutering, just different opinions and i think we need to remember and respect that fact.


I neutered Percy-Roo, five weeks after I adopted him, some may see this as a rushed decision other may see it as a well considered choice. But at the end of the day, I don't think anyone has the right to say whats right and what's not right when it comes to other peoples pets. It upto the owner, the carer of the pet. But what we can do is advise, give our experiences and help the owner weigh up the pro's and con's I think this is what makes the piggie forum brilliant for guinea pig owners, as we all pitch in our own views, and give the owner as much as we can before they go ahead with the neautering.

The choice is upto the owner, the carer and of course the animals welfare comes first when taking this decision.

Yes, some owners make a hasty decision and some take months of planning and preparation to neutering, and some never go through with it. As I said before its ultimately down to the owner, what they think is best for their pet and all we can do as a community is advice, support and give them and their pet the best that we can provide.

 

[daftscotslass]

I'm actually going to leave this open as I would like a genuine answer from the OP as to why neutering is "butchering". Do you apply this to cats, dogs and rabbits too? Tell that to the thousands of them that are euthanised every year because no homes could be found for them. Many of these animals would never have existed if their owners had neutered these animals.

Your post shows clear ignorance of the 1) The dynamic of large colonies of sows and 2) The rehoming process for boars. 3) It shows a lack of understanding of the neutering process itself.

1) Wiebke has said what I would have said about group dynamics. I had a pen with four sows who, despite taking up half my living room were hormonal and were constantly at each other. Now, I was lucky enough to be able to be offered a castrated boar from rescue but I can say quite categorically that it was the making of this little colony when he came along. Many people have a similar experience and don't want the females to reproduce willy-nilly (excuse the pun) which is basically what you're suggesting.

2) Sadly there is still by and large a misconception that males cannot be housed together and hence they are harder to rehome than sows. Boars are not like sows, it's very hard to get them to live in a large colony together and I've yet to meet anyone in nearly 20 years of keeping guinea pigs who has managed to get more than 3 boars to live together harmoneously. Neutering them is simply another option at getting them a home.

3) As I'm sure you've realised, males of most species carry their testicles outside of their bodies. This makes surgery and recovery more straightforward than invasive surgery into the body cavity. A good vet will have knowledge of anaesthetics, surgery and aftercare and will instruct an owner on proper follow up care. I'm sorry but comparing this to humans is just laughable.

 

[weelynne83]

I lost my very first boar during a routine neutering operation. we thought we had two girls and turned out we were wrong when we ended up with 4 babies. Very sad time

 

[Laure]

This forum should encourage people to learn more, look at guineas in another way than 'those little things in the pet shop', and join a strong, supportive community - not shoot them down with quite graphically worded posts when they have made a decision and stuck by it, whatever the consequences may be.

Whatever your views on neutering, being made to feel you have done something so terribly wrong and 'now look what's happened' is not on IMO.

I could not agree anymore! he reason we love and use this place is because it is friendly place where we can all educate ourselves about guinea pigs and where new owners feel able to come and ask some questions.

By the nature of the forum the vast majority of people who come on dearly care for their pets as they have taken the step to inform themselves!


That's all I am going to say on the matter. :x

 

[ghostbusterbunny]

I'd just like to add something I missed off my post this morning; I am only for neutering if it gives a piggy the chance of a better life or if it's medically necessary. Chip came from Milhaven, and I know that she only neuters males if necessary (and indeed piggies that are in line for neuter are sometimes found a friend last minute; which is fantastic!). As I said, I don't know exactly why he was neutered, but I know now that he has a very happy life as a result, with a girl who without him was almost certainly doomed to a life of solitude.

I think that the vast majority of people on this forum, whether rescues or ordinary members would only put a guinea pig through neuter if it was in their best interests. That's how it should be; and if it done for that reason, I see nothing wrong with it... even on the rare occasions where things don't go to plan. At the end of the day, if neutering is the best option that'll give a pig a brighter future then it should be supported, or at the very least accepted; not berated.

 

[JoBo]

The first boy i had neutered unfortunatley died from post op infection and i stilkl get upset about it. However i have since gone on to neuter another boar as he lost his male companion and i had 2 females, i have now created a happy group and i totally agree with Wiebke. I have said previously and will say again that if i ever have to find a boar for my group i will adopt a boar that is already neutered, only because i found it very stressful as both the boars i neutered got post op infections.

I actually think that is extremely irresponsible to mouth out about the cruelness of neutering animals. I have 4 dogs all of which are neutered, because on the odd occasion our dogs can get out of the house and take themselves for a wander and you can imagine the potential of what could happen if they were not neutered and you only have to look at the kennels full of unwanted dogs and cats at rescue kennels to realise that neutering is very much the best option.

 

[All0about0the0animals]

ok, I've read through and my choice was not to comment mainly as alot of my thoughts have been posted and that is is getting quite heated, but as it's been left open..

So my thoughts as a rescue and on the rescue side of things, and bearing in mind that every rescue is run differently, and every rescue has their own opinions on the matter and their own policies.

I don't only do guinea pig rescue, I take on most species of small pet. From dogs to cats, pigs, to birds and most things in between.

ALL rabbits, dogs and cats leave neutered unless they are too young without exeption. If they are too young they go out and are contracted to be neutered when old enough. Infact, I have a pair of rabbits here at the moment that came back for their neuter this week. The risk factor to does in particular of contracting cancer far outweigh the risk of the operation in my opinion. As for cats and dogs, it stops all unwanted litters, and an abundance of medial problems and cats fighting and injuring themselves. The last thing this world needs in more dogs, rabbits and cats. Just take a trip to your local council stray kennels, or cattery. You'll see that most are entire males that have gone wandering, looking for females. Also behaviourally, neutering a dog, cat or rabbit greatly improves or completely stops unwanted or homonal charged behaviours.

Pigs on the other hand are a different matter. Generally, a boars temperment doesn't change much, although I have had the odd highly strung boy quieten down a bit. I can't comment on a sows behaviour, I've never had to have a sow neutered before. Most of my views have been covered by doeylicious and wibeke. My main reason for neutering is that I am against the idea of a pig living alone. They are herd animals and it's just not what I agree with. I've never had a pig that couldn't be bonded with someone eventually. So if it's a boar who won't bond, he is neutered to go with a sow. He would have been tried with other existing boars at the rescue, and if I have no pregnant sows in and no pigs waiting to come in for bonding, and the boar is crying out for a friend, I will neuter him and give him a sow. I currently have a single boar who is very unhappy being alone, but as I've got babies due in a few weeks, I'm hoping he'll hold on for a friend until then, if not he'll be going in for neutering. If however, the boar seems content I will hang on and see what we have in. It is a simple procedure with an experienced vet, and thankfully I've never lost one or had complications through the years. This does not mean to say that I never will loose a pig or that I won't ever have complications, but my opinion is that the future happiniess of the pig far outweighs the risk of the op. I never neuter sows unless it's for a medical reason. If it needed to be done and the sows life was at risk if it wasn't done, I wouldn't question it.

So all in all, for me it comes down to the pigs future happiniess. Yes, the decision is more complicated than one made for a dog, cat or rabbit and needs to be given more thought, but there is alot of reading material and alot of decent vets out there to help give you the info for the decision you are wanting to make. Take into consideration your pigs quality of life, what will happen afterwards and the reasoning behind the neuter, whether you have a vet who is good enough to do the op and whether you are going to be around to closely monitor your pig after the op.

 

[gogoguineas]

I think 'butchering' is such a horrific term and terribly offensive to those that choose to neuter. Because that is what it is, a choice and one that no one takes lightly.

I personally, would previously have chosen not to neuter just out of fear it might be unnessacery and i might lose my pet. This thread however has educated me more on it now than ever and I feel more confident that it is not butchering and is sometimes an option to enable a potentially lonely piggie to flourish amongst some sows or find anohter home. Again, through my personal choice I would leave this as a last resort though.

Some of the earlier comments are extreme and uneducated, people have this thing that boars are difficult and can't socialise, in 20 years of owning all boars apart from one pair of sows, I have never had this trouble and the close mindedness to this is what is keeing so many boys in rescues. The same applies to the extreme views on neutering though, it's not all bad and because the testicles are out side of the body the little guy should be back to his old self within a few days, its not as invasive as people think, I used to think that before I educated myself on here.

This comes back to accepting peoples personal choices and not judging them for them, what suits one wont suit the next, the same way I don't like fish and my other half loves it! it's just LIFE.

Piggylove as soon as I saw this I thought of you because I genuinely sobbed my heart out for you when I read your original thread but you did what you thought was best and unfortunately it just didnt work out, please dont blame yourself. Your piggys situation got complicated and no one could have anticipated that. And I'm sure the last thing anyone wanted to do was offend you by discussing the subject.

What I'm trying to do is get people keep an open mind, its not the only way because boars can mix but its not butchering to neuter either. All we can do is encourage people to educate themselves and make the best possible choices for their pets.

 

[rachelsharp]

After having my two girls for 3 years, I came to the decision of adding a male to the group. The reason for this was because I know the time will come when one is left without the other, and I couldn't bear the thought of it. They have been so close. There are numerous reasons why I did not want to add another sow to the group, and when looking on the website of an animal rescue I used to volunteer at, I saw Rufus, the first guinea pig they had had this year. I knew that he had to come home with me. He had a rough start to his life and I very much wanted to be able to provide a loving home for him, and another companion for my two girls.

This all happened before I joined the forum. I possibly did rush into it, but I am so glad that I got him. He settled in here very quickly and slept next to my bed for the first two months until he was of the age for neutering. When I took him on the 2nd of July for his op, I was so scared. I was as organised as I could be, but always had a worry in the back of my mind that I may be putting him through something unneccesary.

Fortunately for both me and Rufus, he survived the op and five weeks later he is happy and healthy with good signs of recovery. Not once during his recovery did I feel he was in pain.

He has now been introduced to my two girls, Poppy and Meg, and they have taken him under their wing and nothing gives me more joy than to see the three of them snuggled up in bed together. For me, I have a sense that this is what he has been waiting for all along, for some lovely piggy company and because of the op he has been able to live as close to a natural situation as possible.

Only three months ago he was a painfully shy piggy, fearful of everyone and having never experienced the company of another pig. Maybe he would have bonded well with another boar, but having seen him settle in so quickly with my two girls it is undoubtedly the best decision I have made, and the best thing that has ever happened to him. I look forward to him being able to live out his live with my two girls, and numerous others as time goes on.

It is so heartbreaking to hear stories of people's piggies not making it to the other side, but with I feel the forum is a place that is supposed to help people make informed decisions about what they feel is best for their pigs. It allowed me to weigh up the pros and cons of what was going to happen to my piggie, and thankfully this decision has paid off for both Rufus and I.

 

[PiggyLove]

I agree with everything Doey has said and cannot add much more to it.

I am very pro spay/castrate, anything that comes through my door that is large enough, goes in for the op, whether it's a dog or a guinea pig.

The benefits of spaying and castrating go far beyond preventing unwanted litters.

Removing unecessary organs (let's face it, they're unnecessary as I have no intention of breeding), immediately eliveates the risk of things like testicular tumours in males, which would develop later in life. By the time they're noticed, the dog/cat/rabbit/guinea pig would be much older, and need to have them removed anyway, but because of the increase in age, the anaesthetic and post op risks are hugely increased. We had an entire rabbit in work the other week, 10 years old, testicular torsion. Needless to say, he needed an emergency castration. Now, anaesthetics in rabbits are risky enough, without the patient being 10 years old. Needless to say, the outcome wasn't particularly good.

As for females, spaying has huge benefits again. It gets rid of the chance of ovarian cysts and tumours, uterine infections (which are deadly), and greatly reduces the risk of mammary tumours and the like. The earlier you spay, the more this risk is lowered.

No one would bat an eyelid if I told you that my dog and lady-dog (it censors the proper term!) are castrated and spayed. Infact I'd probably be congratulated for being a responsible owner.

What now when I tell you that I have a group of three boars, all castrated, and I have a castrated boar, who is in the process of being bonded with an entire sow, who I am considering spaying. What are your thoughts on that?

I agree this is another reason I had Piggy neutered so that in old age he would NOT get testicular or prostate cancer being older he would not have survived going into surgery at old age.

I considered this too - i thought very hard and long about all aspects