New Sows...are They Fighting?

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Catherine Brown

Catherine Brown

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Hi All,

I got my girls this weekend. One on Sat (GP A) and one today (GP B) both from the same place. They're from different litters. GP A looked very happy jumping about with her bros and sisters and when I went to get GP B she was very frightened, shaking the poor thing.

I introduced them both in neutral area, they sniffed one another and sat down next to one another. I cleaned out the cage that GP A had stayed in yesterday, put new bedding in and rearranged the bowl and beds.

All was going well, GP A really came out of her skin and was so happy to be with someone, she was bombing around and popcorning, really going for it. GP B (I understand is very frightened as she only arrived today) had a look around and made her way to the pink bed (GP A has not been in it yet).

GP A was so excited so went over to her a few times to get into the bed with her and GP B nipped her. She went off doing her own thing and I assumed GP B wanted to be left alone. They have come out and eaten some hay together where GP B makes a hasty exit back to her bed and GP A is very happy running about, eating some hay, drinking some water etc.

However GP A has just gone over to GP B in the pink bed and they both looked at one another and GP B jumped out and they started nipping one another. Neither one of them has screamed out in pain and since then they are both sat together now munching on some hay from the same pile.

Is this normal behaviour? Does it sound like charging? Is GP B just letting her know that the pink bed is now hers and that she just wants to be left alone?

BTW GP A is 12 weeks old and GP B is 10 weeks old.

I obviously don't want to have to separate them. But I don't want either one to get hurt.

Thank you
 
This is normal dominance behaviour. It means that they are settling in with you and have now found the confidence to establish a hierarchy. this can take several days to weeks. It is not fun to watch, but please don't interfere unless they are fighting in a ball of fur.
If you hear screaming, it is very likely not in pain, but in submission. The screaming is usually a very effective deterrent for the dominant piggy to not push further.
 
Hi Wiebke,

She GP A has just gone over to her again, they looked at each other and were nipping at each other in a ball shape, moving very quickly. I obviously got up from where I was watching them and told them to stop it where GP B went back to the pink bed and GP A went into hers. They've just shared some more hay and gone into their own separate beds.

You're right it is horrible to watch, my stomach is in knots.
 
Have you got some grass you can put in the cage in small portions to distract them if necessary? It don't think that it has reached critical point as they are still eating together. They seem to be rather closely matched in terms of dominance and are measuring up to each other. Please be aware that the more you intervene the less they can get on with sorting out who comes top.

A fighting fur ball has a completely different intensity with teeth chattering, stiff bodies, lunging, fur flying and hair standing on edge. Nipping is still in the normal range.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/dominance-behaviours-in-guinea-pigs.28949/
 
Hi, no I have no grass but I have separated the hay piles.

GP B has now come out of her bed and when she sees GP A she will jump to her making GP A run and hide.
 
Make sure that she can get out either side from behind that box. Otherwise let them get on with it. It looks like they have come to an understanding about who is top. Top lady is now going to reinforce her supremacy by throwing her weight around until she feels secure in her position.Not nice to watch, but vital. guinea pigs can't get by with subtle hints, they have to spell everything out in capitals. At the worst, take out all hideys for a time, so there can't be any fights with the undersow being "locked into a corner. You are now going through what other do during a formal introduction.

This phase only determines the shape of the relationship (which girl has how much say); NOT how good friends they will eventuall become! ;)
 
Thanks for your help. My stomach is in knots, what a horrible thing to watch! I really thought GP A would be the dominant one as she is so confident. I'm very surprised.

Yes there is a small gap on both sides, I hope she's not hiding from GP B as she was such a cheerful little thing earlier.
 
She will be a cheerful thing again once the relationship has been sorted.
 
Oh just popped away for a sec, not sure what happened but the roles has changed. GP B is now afraid to pass GP A who nips her when she walks by. Gp A has just visited the pink bed. She's also popcorning again :) however GP B is chilling out behind the box.
 
Fresh veg and hay given, getting along nicely. Few nips by both here and there. Sorry I've never introduced GP's before. Only ever had one boar. So does this see-saw behaviour continue until there's an understanding between them both? One taking control then the other?
 
Without seeing them myself it is difficult to tell from the often very subtle signs whether they have already worked out some understanding or not, but it rather sounds like they have.

It doesn't sound like you have to worry. Piggies in a difficult bonding situation simply wouldn't popcorn and play with each other, believe me!

Bonding is not quite for the faint hearted, especially when you don't have a foil to compare it to, but it is very rare for piggies at that young age to fail.
 
They seem to have settled down for a snooze now, with GP B in GP A's yellow bed. I'm just worried if anything were to happen at night and I'm working tomorrow :(

I have a lot of respect for all of you out there that do this more than once! Though I am glad I have tried it.

Thanks for your help @Wiebke I truly appreciate it.
 
Rumblestrutting is fine, it's normal for both sexes :) One of them might be in season. Expect mounting behaviour as well , all perfectly normal :)
 
Scratch that GP B is now chasing GP A and GP A is squealing. Should I get them out maybe to neutral territory? Or just leave them be? One min all is ok and the next they're at each other. They will also soon have names as long as they start getting along!
 
Sounds like normal behaviour to me. Agonising to watch, I know, but unless there is a major fight you need to hold your nerve. Teeth chattering, rumble strutting, nipping, mounting and chasing are all normal in establishing and maintaining the sow dominance hierarchy. I would definitely have 2 of everything - piles of hay, beds, water bottles, food bowls as this means that no one can dominate the other. Also , make sure no-one can get trapped anywhere - houses with more than 1 exit are best. And if you have space have 1 hidey each and one spare. None of my introductions have ever gone smoothly but all have worked out eventually!
 
Thank you, it is horrible to watch. One min it's fine and they only have to stare at one another and they either keep nipping one another or chasing. I hope this doesn't go on too much longer. How long did it take for you?
 
One pairing sorted it out within about 8 hours but then went through regular reshuffles as they came into season! Another pair took several days and I lost hours of sleep worrying whether I'd done the right thing. When Mr Ted (neutered) moved in with Mrs Fudge it took several days for it to be peaceful but although they don't snuggle up together they are quite devoted to each other now.

At some point you just have to leave them to it and go to bed, as long as there is no blood being drawn and true fur balls rolling in the air fighting then you don't need to separate (unless one is so obviously bullying the other that the underpig is suffering). For cute little creatures they can be vicious to each other!
 
It is crazy, she looked so sweet in cage when I went to pick her up. Shaking bless her.

GP B keeps chasing GP A until she hides in her cosy. Then popcorns after shes finished chasing her. She's just followed her into the cosey making her squeak loudly.

I feel I won't be sleeping too well tonight...
 
My boys chase eachother a lot but there's been no trouble with them in the few months I've had them.
The first few weeks were horrible and one night I was so scared I moved their cage to the floor with me sleeping on the floor so I'd wake up if I heard anything!
They just need to sort themselves out between them over who's dominant and who's not. as GP B was really nervous when you got her this is probably why she's chasing GP A as she may feel threatened.

Don't keep yourself up all night about them seeing as you'll have to leave them for when you're at work anyway, I'm sure they'll be fine!
 
I've just had to re-bond my 3 sows after one had an op so I know how nerve wracking it is :) Believe me, it's much scarier when they are adults lol :)
 
We've just got them out for about 15 mins on our lap/sofa. GP A really enjoying snuggles and closing her eyes, GP B easy to handle but jumpy. Have put them back in their cage with some lettuce and they're munching away together. See how we go now.
 
All sounds normal to me - and don't mind the squeaking too much. The noises are far worse than what you think is going on in there. There is often lots of noise from mine when there is some protest or temporary fall out!
 
Thanks @VickiA the noises go right through me. I'm just not used to having two GP's so have never really seen them interact. GP A is sat in the yellow cosey and GP B is trying to get in/get her out by pulling on the side hehe whenever she tries to come near her she just squeals. There is a big pink bed in there but they're both after the cosey. Might need to get another one or take it out.
 
Catherine Brown said:
Thanks @VickiA the noises go right through me. I'm just not used to having two GP's so have never really seen them interact. GP A is sat in the yellow cosey and GP B is trying to get in/get her out by pulling on the side hehe whenever she tries to come near her she just squeals. There is a big pink bed in there but they're both after the cosey. Might need to get another one or take it out.
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Anything that causes contention is worth removing. One of my pairs had one hidey they always squabbled over so I took it out and peace was restored. If you need to put an emergency hidey in a cardboard box with 2 entrances / exits works well. Or a small plastic stool (from pound shop) is good for sheltering under but has open sides so no trapping of piggies. Or some of those fiddlesticks made into an arch. Some people ensure during introductions that there are no coseys so as to avoid trapping, guarding of entrances etc. hope this helps. You just have to have nerves of steel and see what works or doesn't. We've all been there so I know how anxious yo must be feeling right now
 
Ah okey dokey I'll remove it then. Hope they don't do the same to the pink bed, it could easily fit two adult GP's and has no top. I have a box in there which is quite big and I'm going to put a hole through to the other side in the morning. Thanks Ladies. Going to try to get some sleep now... :|
 
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