new sows fighting

mysticalmushroom

mysticalmushroom

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Hello, I got my first pair of 12 week old sows on Tuesday and could use a bit of advice. I've been leaving them to settle in as much as possible except to feed them, tidy the cage, talking to them quietly and just sitting still next to the cage. They seemed to be settling in ok, coming out, eating, running away less when I was moving around in the room but then I noticed they started fighting over one of the hideys. I made one out of a cardboard box with two doors (just temporarily until their fleece and more permanent ones arrive!) and they also had two tunnels. After a few days it seemed Astrid (a black Peruvian) was kicking Opal (an all white sheltie) out and not letting her in the cardboard box hidey which was their favourite/safe space. I could tell by the sharp squeals Opal was making that it wasn't just a little skirmish so I took out the box hidey and made two new ones so they could each have their own. At first they didn't get it and kept trying to squeeze into one together then getting mad but now they seemed to have picked one and stick to their individual hidey. They've taken a huge step back in settling in though and are absolutely terrified of me again! And they still occasionally fight over hiding spaces. Should I be concerned that they won't get along as cage mates or is this normal? Is there anything else I can do to keep them from fighting over space without terrifying them?
 
Its quite normal for the dominant piggy to have the pick of the best hides and it is also normal for them to not want to share a hide. Sharp squeals can be submission squealing - the submissive literally saying I'm no threat, dont hurt me and accepting her position in the hierarchy.

Are they both gaining weight well? Is the submissive (which I'm assuming is Opal) allowed to eat, drink and rest or is the dominance relentless?
Are they pet shop piggies? If so, then there is a risk that they won't be compatible. Pet shop piggies are just put together for sale with no regard for whether they actually get on.
 
Welcome to the forum.
Watching piggies sort out their hierarchy can be daunting.
The submission squealing sounds dramatic - as if some pig is being murdered!
Don’t panic.
It sounds as if you are doing everything right.
Hope things settle down for you.
 
Hello and welcome.

Here is the link to combined links that you may find very useful. Behaviour, Bonding & Bereavement Guides
In particular there are guides about dominance behaviours and sow behaviours.

It’s normal for 2 sows in a new environment to sort out who is the top sow and who is the submissive. The squeals of submission sound far worse than they probably are in reality. Sows can be very dramatic! I wouldn’t consider what you are describing as fighting, but normal dominance behaviour, with Astrid teaching Opal that she is top sow. This will settle down within a week or so.
 
Thanks for your response! I haven't weighed them yet because I'd read its best to not handle them in the first week but they're both eating well and Astrid doesn't stop Opal from having food or hay or anything, it was just the hiding space they fighting over. I got them from a breeder who assured me they were bonded and had lived together for a month before I got them but I'm thinking think they just shared a space together with other piggies and weren't particularly close before they came to me. They aren't drinking any water though, I have a bowl of water and two bottles but neither of them have shown any interest so I've just been giving them watery veg like cucumber until they figure it out. Is there anything I can do to help them with that?
 
You are right that as breeder piggies, the same thing applies as pet shops. Hopefully they will be fine together, but it’s always something to bear in mind.
It does all sound normal though so don’t be concerned.

Regarding the not drinking, don’t be concerned - they will get their water when they need it and they will get a certain amount from their veggies. One of mine drinks, but it’s very rare to see the other at the bottle.
 
Please don’t worry too much about water consumption. Some piggies drink loads and others virtually none, in my experience. They may be getting enough moisture from their veggies. If they are weeing and Pooping ok then it’s nothing to worry about.
 
mysticalmushroom said:
Thank you all for your reassuring replies! :)
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You’re welcome. We’ve all been new owners at some point. Even those of us who’ve had piggies for years can find their behaviour perplexing at times. They are such fun pets for adults, once you’ve got them settled in. Their behaviours are fascinating.
 
VickiA said:
You’re welcome. We’ve all been new owners at some point. Even those of us who’ve had piggies for years can find their behaviour perplexing at times. They are such fun pets for adults, once you’ve got them settled in. Their behaviours are fascinating.
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They really are! I absolutely love watching their goofy little zoomies and popcorning already! Will be so much fun to watch their personalities really come out over time. Initially I thought Opal was the dominant one because she's much less timid and is always first to come out of the hidey for food, and then once Opal is out, Astrid will follow. But then as Astrid is settling in I'm noticing she's much more mischievous and more insistent on having her own space!
 
Hello again! So the girls are still fighting over space no matter how I rearrange or change up their environment! Even when they have nothing but tunnels, Opal follows Astrid wherever she is and tries to snuggle up next to her but then Astrid gets annoyed and shoves her out. Or Astrid gets scared by something and goes to hide with Opal and then pushes Opal out. I have a 2x4 c&c cage coming next week which is bigger than their current one (a temp ferplast one) which I hope will make things better. Is there anything else I can do to get them to stop bickering in the mean time?
 
You have to be careful when using the word fighting. For sows that means hair pulling. Is it that the top pig is chasing her cage mate around, chasing her out of hides, taking food from her mouth, not wanting to share hides? Do you see anything aside from what I've mentioned?

When you move them next week, use their soiled bedding in the new cage. Hopefully some more space will ease things up. You also have to remember that it takes them 2 weeks to settle in when they've moved to their new digs. You've had them short of two weeks.
 
I realise now I incorrectly used fighting in the original post last week which is why I sad bickering in this latest one sorry! I don't think Astrid is attacking Opal but I did notice a very small scratch on Opal's ear though she could have done that herself. Astrid never stops Opal from eating/access to food, just chases her out of hides. Thanks for the advice. I know these things take time but I also don't want to leave things that I should be addressing!
 
it sounds as if Astrid is simply exhibiting her dominance by having her pick of hides etc.
Have you been weighing them? If they are both eating and are both otherwise happy, then i would give them some more time. Having a bigger cage can help though if they want to be together but just don’t have enough space. The only time having a bigger cage wont help is if they actually don’t like each other - in that case, things will escalate no matter how much space they have.
 
Ok thanks, that makes sense! I have been weighing them, took them to the vet for a checkup today which went fine. I'll leave them be and fingers crossed the bigger space helps in a few days!
 
So, I've moved them to the new 2x4 c&c cage over a week ago and they have 2 of everything food wise, 4 hides and 3 tunnels but things seem to have escalated the last few days. Astrid has started rumble strutting, chasing and mounting (which wasn't happening before). I've been weighing them and they're still steadily gaining but I'm worried that things seem to be escalating instead of calming down? Is it normal for it to to take this long to establish hierarchy? Everything else I've read has said two weeks and they've been together over a month now!
 
mysticalmushroom said:
So, I've moved them to the new 2x4 c&c cage over a week ago and they have 2 of everything food wise, 4 hides and 3 tunnels but things seem to have escalated the last few days. Astrid has started rumble strutting, chasing and mounting (which wasn't happening before). I've been weighing them and they're still steadily gaining but I'm worried that things seem to be escalating instead of calming down? Is it normal for it to to take this long to establish hierarchy? Everything else I've read has said two weeks and they've been together over a month now!
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The new cage can trigger a resurgence of dominance, after all it is new territory to claim. Have you double checked the sex of the piggies yourself to ensure you definitely have two females. If so then it could just be that Astrid is having a strong season too. If it's a season then it should calm down again in a day or two.
 
Yeah I was wondering if it was a season thing cause the mounting and rumble strutting started out of the blue in the last few days and Astrid's been extra feisty lately. I checked when I got them though and they're definitely both girls :) Looks like I just need to have a bit more patience and not worry so much! 🙈
 
mysticalmushroom said:
Yeah I was wondering if it was a season thing cause the mounting and rumble strutting started out of the blue in the last few days and Astrid's been extra feisty lately. I checked when I got them though and they're definitely both girls :) Looks like I just need to have a bit more patience and not worry so much! 🙈
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It can be very worrying when watching some of their behaviours. I remember my first two were both sows and the older one had a very strong season and she was absolutely relentless in her pursuit and humping of the younger one. It was just a complete change of character I quickly grabbed them both to double check the gender even though I had had them a while at this stage :))
 
Aw yeah, the humping, chasing and high pitched squealing is hard to just ignore! Its a good thing they're so cute!
 
Update! So the majority of the mounting and rumble strutting etc has calmed down now thankfully. Astrid is still pushing Opal out of hideys probably about 5 times a day and she sometimes looks quite shaken afterwards. She just seems to really prefer being near Astrid and won’t leave her alone! How much squabbling between youngsters is normal?
 
Well I seem to have finally found the magical configuration that keeps them from bickering over space finally! It only took buying lots of different kinds of cosies/hides and arranging them in dozens of different ways to figure it out! 😂
 
Haha it would appear so! The main thing I changed that made a difference was taking their favourite hidey (two tunnels with a blanket/fleece over one end) and put one of the tunnels/fleece on the loft so they could both be in their fav kinda hidey but away from eachother and adding a fleece forest on the corner of the loft. Seems really obvious in retrospect 🤪
 
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