Ongoing Soft Stool Due To Essential Meds - Help!

[LydiaMinx]

Boris is on Vetmedin (1/4 tab twice a day) and Frusol (0.2ml's twice a day) for Dilated Cardiomyopathy.

It is essential that he's on both of these meds as the other available heart medication will not be as effective for his particular heart condition, this is advice from his vet, as I did ask about Fortekor.

The Vetmedin is giving him soft poo. Not full blown diarrhoea, just soft and in a massive clumps. I've read that this has been an issue with other pigs on the same meds.

He's lost a lot of weight since showing respiratory distress, all due to antibiotic intolerance (900g to 780g in a week). He's a naturally small dude anyway, and looks painfully skinny at his current weight. I need him to gain a bit of weight, and the soft poo is a massive barrier in this.

His soft poo only occurs when I give him veg. Doesn't seem to matter what veg, just any fresh food. I've been giving him Fibreplex twice a day to keep his poo firm, and that's been working mostly. This has only been occurring since he has been in Vetmedin.

I tried to wean him off Fibreplex yesterday as I'm unsure of the long term effects it could have, and all was good. Until I fed him veg. His poo was back to being soft again almost immediately, so the Vetmedin is definitely making his stomach sensitive.

Is there anyway to naturally prevent this without constant Fibreplex or cutting out veg? He loves his veg more than anything so I really would love advice from anyone who's been in the same boat.

I'm happy to continue giving Fibreplex indefinitely if necessary, however I'd like to avoid it, both due to him having so much medication already and the cost!

Thank you all x

 

[Adelle]

Fudge had horrendous diarrohea with vetmedin- but she also completely went off her food and was very flat. Since vetmedin is needed for Boris, and his side effects are fairly mild, he should tolerate it okay over time.

Fudge has an ongoing issue of "funny" poos and gets a little gassy, both intermittently- this isnt a suprise with the amount of meds she is on. I give her zantac syrup from the vet, which helps alot.

It may be worth asking your vet about trying him on some as, just like fudge, lowering or stopping the meds just isnt an option.

How is he in himself/ his appetite etc?

 

[LydiaMinx]

Fudge had horrendous diarrohea with vetmedin- but she also completely went off her food and was very flat. Since vetmedin is needed for Boris, and his side effects are fairly mild, he should tolerate it okay over time.

Fudge has an ongoing issue of "funny" poos and gets a little gassy, both intermittently- this isnt a suprise with the amount of meds she is on. I give her zantac syrup from the vet, which helps alot.

It may be worth asking your vet about trying him on some as, just like fudge, lowering or stopping the meds just isnt an option.

How is he in himself/ his appetite etc?

I will ask about Zantac, although the Fibreplex seems to keep him on track, but I loathe to have him on even more meds.

His appetite is good mostly, he's low when he's got soft poo as to be expected, but most of the time he's totally himself. He wheeks (or rather, wheezes) non-stop for veg!

His weight is at an all time low today however, 720g

 

[Adelle]

I will ask about Zantac, although the Fibreplex seems to keep him on track, but I loathe to have him on even more meds.

His appetite is good mostly, he's low when he's got soft poo as to be expected, but most of the time he's totally himself. He wheeks (or rather, wheezes) non-stop for veg!

His weight is at an all time low today however, 720g

It may be the fluid if hes still wheezing or it could be the vetmedin. Id arrange another vet visit, enquire about trying zantac- its relitavely harmless long term and a fraction of the price of fibreplex. Id maybe have them give him a quick conscious xray to check the fluid to see if he needs more frusemide- fudges lungs always sound clear despite the fluid, so i always have her xrayed every 3 months or sooner if she has a blip, as listening isnt enough to tell. Increased fluid will make his appetite twindle causing the weight loss.

Failing any of that helping, you may need to consider temporarily reducing the vetmedin dose, or potentially swotching to fortekor as a last resort.

Your vet will be best to advise you on that. Fudge went from 1030g to 910g on vetmedin. For the past 6 months shes been a steady 1026g and doing well- they can do this, keep positive. Xx

 

[LydiaMinx]

It may be the fluid if hes still wheezing or it could be the vetmedin. Id arrange another vet visit, enquire about trying zantac- its relitavely harmless long term and a fraction of the price of fibreplex. Id maybe have them give him a quick conscious xray to check the fluid to see if he needs more frusemide- fudges lungs always sound clear despite the fluid, so i always have her xrayed every 3 months or sooner if she has a blip, as listening isnt enough to tell. Increased fluid will make his appetite twindle causing the weight loss.

Failing any of that helping, you may need to consider temporarily reducing the vetmedin dose, or potentially swotching to fortekor as a last resort.

Your vet will be best to advise you on that. Fudge went from 1030g to 910g on vetmedin. For the past 6 months shes been a steady 1026g and doing well- they can do this, keep positive. Xx

He has always been a wheezer, he wheeks normally to begin with then it cuts out into a wheeze. When I got Badger I learnt that was just how Boris did things, obviously now knowing it was a sign of problems to come! I'm keeping a close ear out on his noises though to see if it worsens (hasn't at the moment thankfully).

I will ask about the zantac, as he has the vets on Monday with the specialist, so will perhaps get him x-rayed then also to be sure about his lungs/heart again.

His appetite is still ferocious, it's just that giving him the amount he wants and used to get now gives him soft (but not watery) poo, and he walks it in everywhere making it look worse.

I actually called the vets today and mentioned that his poo was still soft and asked if they'd consider Fortekor as he's down nearly 300g and it's really upsetting to look at him, so skinny. They said to bring him in, they also mentioned that as his poo was soft (it was water) when they first saw him, they don't think it's the heart meds....

Had to remind them that he'd be needlessly put on Baytril and Karidox for a URI he didn't have, which caused the initial runny poo and massive weight loss. Very frustrating. It's horrible to see him so skinny

Thank you Adelle. Just need to get some fat on him and I'll feel so much better xx

 

[LydiaMinx]

Ok so we saw the vets today, she thinks the soft poo is a problem with the bacteria in his guts due to the antibiotics, she thought yeast specifically as she has seen that a fair bit with Rabbits and Pigs.

So he is on Flagyl and Nystatin for his poo, and she sent a culture off to find out specifically what was going on, if she could. He was also given a anabolic steroid to get some fat on him.

She also gave his heart another listen to and once over (she's the in house cardiac specialist) and his heart is skipping beats sporadically, so he is now on Benazepril also. His Frusol dose is being reduced as she thinks that's contributing to the weight loss also, and there was no fluid build up in him anywhere.


So we came home with many a new medication, but hopefully on top of the poo problem. Feel never ending with him though, poor guy.

 

[Adelle]

Ok so we saw the vets today, she thinks the soft poo is a problem with the bacteria in his guts due to the antibiotics, she thought yeast specifically as she has seen that a fair bit with Rabbits and Pigs.

So he is on Flagyl and Nystatin for his poo, and she sent a culture off to find out specifically what was going on, if she could. He was also given a anabolic steroid to get some fat on him.

She also gave his heart another listen to and once over (she's the in house cardiac specialist) and his heart is skipping beats sporadically, so he is now on Benazepril also. His Frusol dose is being reduced as she thinks that's contributing to the weight loss also, and there was no fluid build up in him anywhere.


So we came home with many a new medication, but hopefully on top of the poo problem. Feel never ending with him though, poor guy.

I know it seems dire, but i see alot of postives there.. Hes now on the appropriate heart meds for his specific needs (fortekor is usually very mild on piggies so hopefully wokt cause him any issues), hes got a treatment plan for his poos and best of all- he needs less diuretics! The vetmedin must be doing something which is excellent!

And most of all, he is still here and fighting on- everyday is a blessing with these little ones.

I hope the fortekor and less diuretics make him feel stronger and able to put on weight.

Keep going Boris- you are doing well!

 

[LydiaMinx]

I know it seems dire, but i see alot of postives there.. Hes now on the appropriate heart meds for his specific needs (fortekor is usually very mild on piggies so hopefully wokt cause him any issues), hes got a treatment plan for his poos and best of all- he needs less diuretics! The vetmedin must be doing something which is excellent!

And most of all, he is still here and fighting on- everyday is a blessing with these little ones.

I hope the fortekor and less diuretics make him feel stronger and able to put on weight.

Keep going Boris- you are doing well!

Thank you for the support!

He's not doing well today, very runny poo and lethargic, not eating, etc. So I'm syringe feeding him and hoping he picks up. He has already started sloshing in his abdomen again (where he seems to retain all of his fluid) so the lower diuretic dose seems too low

 

[helen105281]

I agree with Adelle and it is good that he is now on Fortekor.

 

[Adelle]

Thank you for the support!

He's not doing well today, very runny poo and lethargic, not eating, etc. So I'm syringe feeding him and hoping he picks up. He has already started sloshing in his abdomen again (where he seems to retain all of his fluid) so the lower diuretic dose seems too low

Oh I'm sorry to hear that! If the sloshing seems directly related to diuretic dose, id put it back up to what it was before to relieve him of the fluid- obviously call your vet about it first. Hopefully they'll be able to advise you over the phone to save him the stress of a journey, since you where only just there.

This is exactly how fudge reacted to vetmedin- her bum was just constanty leaking soft poo, she was flat and had zero interest in food. Its impossible to say if its doing the same to boris, or its the other meds.. But it will just be trial and error to find out whats best for him. It takes a while of tweaking meds and doses to find out what keeps him stable.

Keep us updated- i hope the vet gets to the bottom of it soon.

Cmon boris...x

 

[LydiaMinx]

I don't actually think the Vetmedin is the main problem anymore, I'm starting to suspect something else. I've just found bald patches on his mouth and cheek areas so have given him a bath in Nizoral straight away. Hoping it isn't ringworm as it's just another problem he doesn't need! Nice hard poo's today and he's already had 80mls of syringe food.

His sloshing also went away the day after it appeared again so that's another confusing factor!

Edit: I found the bald patches as he was acting fidgety and 'itchy'. He wouldn't lay still and was lifting his back leg like he was going in for a scratch. So hope it isn't ringworm

 

[LydiaMinx]

Boris seems to be improving! We've had 99% normal poo's the last two days, even after his usual veg and no fibreplex or the like. He has also gained back 20g over 2 days, so the massive quantities of syringe feeding seems to be helping

 

[Adelle]

Boris seems to be improving! We've had 99% normal poo's the last two days, even after his usual veg and no fibreplex or the like. He has also gained back 20g over 2 days, so the massive quantities of syringe feeding seems to be helping

Praying he continues on the up xx

 

[LydiaMinx]

Praying he continues on the up xx

Thank you! All of the positive thinking seems to be paying off and he's doing very well. He's up 50g, and his poo is mostly normal again. His poo sample came back entirely normal, so he's off of the two meds for that.

I spoke to head vet for his results and he said it's the Frusol giving him the runny poo, which makes sense and I'm pretty stupid for not suspecting that over anything else (especially considering its nature!).
Since halving his Frusol dose (as recommended by his vet), his poo is normal unless he has just had watery veg. He is also more energetic since being on the Fortekor!

So I'm feeling really happy at the moment and just hoping he continues to gain weight

 

[LydiaMinx]

Well Boris lost all of the weight he gained and then some. Now down to 660g, despite eating normal amounts. I stopped the syringe feeding so I've started that again, and I've entirely stopped his diuretic. He was so dehydrated from it (even at the new very low dose) that his eyes weren't visible from looking down at him, so I cut it out immediately and it has since improved. He's also not had much soft poo, just so worried about his weight.

At this rate it won't be his hear that gets him

 

[Mr Muffin's Mum]

Sending lots of love to Boris

 

[LydiaMinx]

I'm beginning to consider that euthanasia may be kinder. I feel very much like I'm fighting a losing battle. He isn't feeding himself enough to sustain anything near a healthy weight and I am having to syringe him 120 mls daily at least to maintain weight. I'm very conflicted over how moral it is to keep him going at this point...he's even starting to turn his nose up at his veg.

 

[helen105281]

I'm sorry he is so poorly, someone once told me that if a pig can't do all things piggy it is time to let them go, and I try to use this as my guide. If he is turning his nose up at his veg and reliant purely on syringe feed I would agree that it is time to make the decision. He is also at a weight that it would be difficult to come back from.

 

[LydiaMinx]

I'm sorry he is so poorly, someone once told me that if a pig can't do all things piggy it is time to let them go, and I try to use this as my guide. If he is turning his nose up at his veg and reliant purely on syringe feed I would agree that it is time to make the decision. He is also at a weight that it would be difficult to come back from.

I'm beginning to seriously consider it, although it's almost like he felt me beginning to give up and wanted to prove me wrong. This morning he's perkier and is eating his hay and veg, drinking, etc. He's also up to 700g again; I'm hoping he'll gain some more weight back now we've stopped his diuretic, as he was so so dehydrated. His appetite is definitely not what it used to be, I'm not sure if there's anything to be done for that.

I'm not giving up on him just yet, but I think I'll know when it's time for him.

 

[helen105281]

You're right you will know, I always say this but take each day at a time and let him be your guide.

 

[Adelle]

Sorry i've missed this hun, fudge has been poorly and iv been up to my eyeballs.

Iv always said if fudges heart or kidneys (due to such high doses of diuretics) causes her to go off her food, require syringe feeding daily, generally losing interest in life and losing that spark.. That i wouldnt continue anymore. If she holds her own i'll support her 100% and enjoy every moment, but i wont force her to stay for my own sake.
With her being ill lately, i was in pieces.. She didnt have a diagnosis and i couldnt make a decision because of that.. I considered it, and it broke my heart. She has pulled through, but i did struggle with the "how long do i try..".

Ultimately only you can make that decision. You know him, you know if he isnt happy. You have done so much for him and i am certain he knows this! Having a terminal piggy is one of the hardest things we can face as a piggy owner, and it shows all the love and strength we have with them when we try to care for them to the best of our abilities.

Speak to him, he will let you know. Animals that have given up, give you a look.. When you see it, you know theres no going back.

I really hope he rallies round.. He has done well and you should be proud of urself for the care and dedication you've shown him xx

 

[LydiaMinx]

Thank you @Adelle and @helen105281 for the kind words. Fortunately, Boris has picked up - actually the perkiest he has been since starting AB's for the suspected URI that never was! (So, over a month).

He's springing back from the Diuretic really well, and it was confirmed by the head vet that that would have been the source of all of the soft poo issues - it's lovely to finally have an answer about that.

He's off of them entirely still and so far, doing well. Keeping everything crossed that that continues. He's been eating hay like he used to, pottering around. But obviously, given his advanced heart failure, he naps often. He's back onto his veg like a mad man!

I hadn't really comprehended how dehydrated he was (even with ample veg and syringing). This may be TMI, but his testicles all but disappeared. They were entirely empty! His eyes were also concave in his skull - thankfully the balls and eyes are back to normal size!

I'm taking this as a really positive sign - he's still very skinny but I'm not expecting him to get back up to his old weight. He's gaining weight again (probably mostly water weight), and is resting at 720g. At this stage, I feel lucky to have a happy, living pig at all, because it has truly been touch and go at times. I've gone to sleep fully expecting to wake up to find that he has passed in the night on many occasions since this all started. But I believe the sleepless night feeding and just watching him have paid off, and he is happy for the time being, no matter how boney he may be for his remaining time.

Also I'm so sorry to read that you've been having trouble with Fudge Adelle, but she is absolutely in the best hands with you. I was happy to read that she's still a fighter and seems to be doing better.

Thank you both so much, and all those that have posted supportive messages. It's so hard when these little guys get ill, there is so little that can be done when compared to dogs and cats, and they occupy your heart just as much.

 

[Adelle]

Thank you @Adelle and @helen105281 for the kind words. Fortunately, Boris has picked up - actually the perkiest he has been since starting AB's for the suspected URI that never was! (So, over a month).

He's springing back from the Diuretic really well, and it was confirmed by the head vet that that would have been the source of all of the soft poo issues - it's lovely to finally have an answer about that.

He's off of them entirely still and so far, doing well. Keeping everything crossed that that continues. He's been eating hay like he used to, pottering around. But obviously, given his advanced heart failure, he naps often. He's back onto his veg like a mad man!

I hadn't really comprehended how dehydrated he was (even with ample veg and syringing). This may be TMI, but his testicles all but disappeared. They were entirely empty! His eyes were also concave in his skull - thankfully the balls and eyes are back to normal size!

I'm taking this as a really positive sign - he's still very skinny but I'm not expecting him to get back up to his old weight. He's gaining weight again (probably mostly water weight), and is resting at 720g. At this stage, I feel lucky to have a happy, living pig at all, because it has truly been touch and go at times. I've gone to sleep fully expecting to wake up to find that he has passed in the night on many occasions since this all started. But I believe the sleepless night feeding and just watching him have paid off, and he is happy for the time being, no matter how boney he may be for his remaining time.

Also I'm so sorry to read that you've been having trouble with Fudge Adelle, but she is absolutely in the best hands with you. I was happy to read that she's still a fighter and seems to be doing better.

Thank you both so much, and all those that have posted supportive messages. It's so hard when these little guys get ill, there is so little that can be done when compared to dogs and cats, and they occupy your heart just as much.

My heart was in my mouth when i saw this notification.. I'm so happy he has perked up! Long may it continue! Xx

 

[LydiaMinx]

My heart was in my mouth when i saw this notification.. I'm so happy he has perked up! Long may it continue! Xx

Thank you! Every day is a blessing with him at this point, he's such a tough little pig. I feel pretty amazed that a diuretic (and a very low dose at that) could have caused all of this trouble when he's fighting pretty hefty heart failure! x

 

[helen105281]

Mine was too, this is wonderful news.

 

[Eilidh]

That is wonderful news about Boris, it made me so happy when I saw it, he sounds like a little fighter!

 

[Mr Muffin's Mum]

Oh brilliant news, well done Boris, you had us all so worried! I tried to post so many times but I just didn't have the right words to say. Have a lovely weekend, Boris and Boris's mum!

 

[LydiaMinx]

Oh brilliant news, well done Boris, you had us all so worried! I tried to post so many times but I just didn't have the right words to say. Have a lovely weekend, Boris and Boris's mum!

Thank you so much! I'm the same with some threads, it's hard to know what to say at times. But Boris is still doing well and steadily gaining weight back - he even had a run around my room! Something he's not had the energy for for quite some time

 

[LydiaMinx]

So Boris is still doing well - and by well I mean the same! He's not gaining massive amounts of weight back and I doubt he ever will again, but he's maintaining weights between 700-800 grams! His appetite is good, although we're still having trouble with that fungal infection on his chin. He's growing hair back in places now but in patches it is still scurfy, so probably going to the vets tomorrow (I've been hesitant as I loathe to put him on more meds that may make him ill again!)

Overall though, positive. He's doing well considering the vet said it was one of the worst cases of heart failure they'd seen in a piggy!

 

[Adelle]

So Boris is still doing well - and by well I mean the same! He's not gaining massive amounts of weight back and I doubt he ever will again, but he's maintaining weights between 700-800 grams! His appetite is good, although we're still having trouble with that fungal infection on his chin. He's growing hair back in places now but in patches it is still scurfy, so probably going to the vets tomorrow (I've been hesitant as I loathe to put him on more meds that may make him ill again!)

Overall though, positive. He's doing well considering the vet said it was one of the worst cases of heart failure they'd seen in a piggy!

So happy to read this! He is doing brilliantly as are you.. I know its tough!

How is his poos doing? Is he still off the frusol and breathing well?

Much love to you both x