P@H ill bunny!

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neep_neep said:
Well, personally I would feel uncomfortable slating Morrisons for things that Safeway have done wrong, just because Morrisons took them over.

New company means new policies and new people. Just because the building is the same, it doesn't mean that they havn't changed.

I can quite categorically state that the Pets at Home near me has not changed one bit with regards to livestock since the changeover. I would go as far as to say it was even worse. Just do a search on this forum for all the evidence.
 
Due to personal experience, i'm inclined to take forum 'evidence' with a pinch of salt.

Maybe some of these things have happened, but I have read plenty of stories of forums which have been completely exaggerated and/or made up. Therefore I am always rather dubious of them ;)

I would say that there have been plenty of changes with livestock. Caresheets all now state that rabbits and guineas should not be kept together, stores are gradually being refitted to allow for them to be separated. They receive pro-biotics to encourage healthy gut flora. Rats have been removed from woodshavings. Prices have been changed to encourage people to buy social animals in pairs. There are big boards stating the basics of caring for animals so customers can make an informed choice of pet, rather than just picking any one they fancy without knowing the first thing about them. And animals certianly do not get 'beaten with spades' ;D ::)

On a store by store basis, I can understand that there are staff who are absolutely rubbish.

However, on a company scale, there have been plenty of good changes since the PetsMart takeover.
 
Forum Evidence.... I don't think the national press that first reported it several years ago got their story from the forum.
 
And, as I stated before, the story was about PetsMart - not P@H ;) Which was the point of my original post.
 
neep_neep said:
Due to personal experience, i'm inclined to take forum 'evidence' with a pinch of salt.

Maybe some of these things have happened, but I have read plenty of stories of forums which have been completely exaggerated and/or made up. Therefore I am always rather dubious of them ;)

I would say that there have been plenty of changes with livestock. Caresheets all now state that rabbits and guineas should not be kept together, stores are gradually being refitted to allow for them to be separated. They receive pro-biotics to encourage healthy gut flora. Rats have been removed from woodshavings. Prices have been changed to encourage people to buy social animals in pairs. There are big boards stating the basics of caring for animals so customers can make an informed choice of pet, rather than just picking any one they fancy without knowing the first thing about them. And animals certianly do not get 'beaten with spades' ;D ::)

On a store by store basis, I can understand that there are staff who are absolutely rubbish.

However, on a company scale, there have been plenty of good changes since the PetsMart takeover.

Why do healthy animals need probiotics? There is no cavy owner or vet that I know that would recommend using them routinely. Are they intolerant of the rubbish that they are fed? Why haven't cavies with their sensitive respiratory systems been removed from woodshavings? Why do the store state "we cannot guarantee the sex of livestock" when my friend's 13 year old son can sex young cavies. Interested to hear my personal experiences?

My friend bought two "female" pigs to have one drop dead a few weeks later because she couldn't give birth being only a baby herself. The other one turned out to be male. Why are some of the animals "reduced to clear" when the store can't shift them? A member of staff thought it was hilarious a lovebird had escaped in one store. She told me "what do you want me to do about it". At a different store another member of staff laughed when I told her a large lop rabbit was using the hutch as a stepping stone into the cage next door to hump the girls. I've seen several instances of pigs ears white with fungal infection and other pigs partially bald. Staff in all occasions did not act immediately to remove them from being potentially purchased. Why are solitary species of animal like Syrian hamsters housed in a tank in groups? Why was a member of staff allowed to sell a cage stated on the shelf as suitable for 2 guinea pigs for 4?

There are 5 stores in total within an hour of me. I'm yet to be impressed by any. If store-by-store care of animals doesn't matter as long as company policy is acceptable then I really don't know what to think.
 
daftscotslass said:
neep_neep said:
Due to personal experience, i'm inclined to take forum 'evidence' with a pinch of salt.

Maybe some of these things have happened, but I have read plenty of stories of forums which have been completely exaggerated and/or made up. Therefore I am always rather dubious of them ;)

I would say that there have been plenty of changes with livestock. Caresheets all now state that rabbits and guineas should not be kept together, stores are gradually being refitted to allow for them to be separated. They receive pro-biotics to encourage healthy gut flora. Rats have been removed from woodshavings. Prices have been changed to encourage people to buy social animals in pairs. There are big boards stating the basics of caring for animals so customers can make an informed choice of pet, rather than just picking any one they fancy without knowing the first thing about them. And animals certianly do not get 'beaten with spades' ;D ::)

On a store by store basis, I can understand that there are staff who are absolutely rubbish.

However, on a company scale, there have been plenty of good changes since the PetsMart takeover.

Why do healthy animals need probiotics? There is no cavy owner or vet that I know that would recommend using them routinely. Are they intolerant of the rubbish that they are fed? Why haven't cavies with their sensitive respiratory systems been removed from woodshavings? Why do the store state "we cannot guarantee the sex of livestock" when my friend's 13 year old son can sex young cavies. Interested to hear my personal experiences?

My friend bought two "female" pigs to have one drop dead a few weeks later because she couldn't give birth being only a baby herself. The other one turned out to be male. Why are some of the animals "reduced to clear" when the store can't shift them? A member of staff thought it was hilarious a lovebird had escaped in one store. She told me "what do you want me to do about it". At a different store another member of staff laughed when I told her a large lop rabbit was using the hutch as a stepping stone into the cage next door to hump the girls. I've seen several instances of pigs ears white with fungal infection and other pigs partially bald. Staff in all occasions did not act immediately to remove them from being potentially purchased. Why are solitary species of animal like Syrian hamsters housed in a tank in groups? Why was a member of staff allowed to sell a cage stated on the shelf as suitable for 2 guinea pigs for 4?

There are 5 stores in total within an hour of me. I'm yet to be impressed by any. If store-by-store care of animals doesn't matter as long as company policy is acceptable then I really don't know what to think.

At the risk of wading back into the old petshop argument again, (and trying very hard not to, this post is purely to tell of my very limited experience with these shops) we have also reported escaped birds in stores with staff who have simply said 'I know' on more than one occasion, have reported filthy water bottles in the animal pens to the staff (and pointed out the teeny baby piggies could not even reach the spouts) , reported rabbits hellbent on happily whizzing around the cage unwittingly terrorizing huddled bunches of piggies and knocking into them as they scoot past them and a large group of piggies all scrapping and getting humped to gawd knows what by each other to be told 'well, they are a new batch (!) she checked them 20 minutes ago and they were all right'...
 
Well, I certainly didn't come onto the forum to start an argument or get into a pet shop debate. I only wanted to state a fact, because people seemed to be getting confused between the two companies.

Though as certain points have been brought up, I had might as well address them...

Why do healthy animals need probiotics? There is no cavy owner or vet that I know that would recommend using them routinely.

The probiotic used is Pro C - Pro C probiotic.
It is to ensure healthy gut flora and is designed for routine use (I guess a bit like Yakult in people), rather than a 'veterinary strength' probiotic. Because the animals are likely to get a bit stressed from moving house, it helps to support their digestion and try and ensure they don't suffer any problems. It's trying to minimise the chances of a problem occurring, rather than waiting until the problem arises.

Are they intolerant of the rubbish that they are fed?

I don't know, it depends on your personal opinions of guinea excel, timothy hay and fresh veggies.


we have also reported escaped birds in stores with staff who have simply said 'I know' on more than one occasion

Absolutely. There is nothing else they would be able to do at that point in time. If a bird escapes, there is no point chasing it around the store when there are customers walking in and out of the doors all the time...if it is being chased, it would be more likely to fly around and injure itself. The usual mode of retrieving a loose bird is to wait until night time, then leave the light on in one room when everything else is dark. The bird usually then flies to the light room and can be caught. It is not a simple exercise trying to catch a bird in a large shop! Chasing it during the day will just stress it out and likely increase the chance of injury. When a staff member has been told by about 10 people that there is a bird loose, there really isn't a lot else to say...although they could have been a bit more tactful with their choice of words. I personally would say 'yes we know, but thanks for pointing it out' :)


Why are solitary species of animal like Syrian hamsters housed in a tank in groups?

Because they are still youngsters - they are not normally aggressive to one another when just weaned, so they are able to live together at that stage in their life. However, they aren't sold in pairs! That would just result in a massacre!


reported rabbits hellbent on happily whizzing around the cage unwittingly terrorizing huddled bunches of piggies and knocking into them as they scoot past them

This is why all the rabbits runs have to contain guinea pigs houses for them, and why the company is refitting the stores with separate runs so these problems do not occur.


have reported filthy water bottles in the animal pens to the staff

If these were green, it would have been the probiotic.

Why are some of the animals "reduced to clear" when the store can't shift them?

This shouldn't really be happening, it is not a company guideline to do so... that's obviously something going wrong at store level, rather than company-wide.

Why was a member of staff allowed to sell a cage stated on the shelf as suitable for 2 guinea pigs for 4?
Did somebody say to the staff member 'yes, I allow you to do that'? That is basically retardation on the staff members part. The COMPANY stated it was suitable for two. The idiot member of staff ignored their guidance. Therefore said member of staff should be complained about, and hopefully disciplined.

I honestly have no time for some of the moronic staff members who work there. But the point that I am trying to make is that the company as a whole is better in it's outlook...i.e. new policies etc. And i'm sure they would be more than happy to come down hard on the imbecilic staff who think it's ok to ignore them!
 
Wow - it is rare to have a P@H defender on here! Welcome to the forum neep_neep!

On a serious note though - I do understand what you are saying. The problem is, a lot of people on this forum (me included) have been posting here a while and repeatedly hear about Pets at Home mistakes around sexing, selling sick animals etc and therefore it is difficult to see much positive in them as a company. I know that PetsMart and Pets at Home are different companies but for a lot of people, other than the signs changing colour you would not be able to spot the difference! I appreciate not all stores are like that, some will be better than others. I have not been in my local store for a long time but the last time I was piggys and rabbits were in their own pens, big care cards were hanging from the ceiling and on the whole, as far as pet shops go, I guess it was OK.

However, I do find it shocking the number of animals that are sold which end up having mites or worse are pregnant! I think it is terrible that on one hand they say 'piggys need company buy a pair' and then immediatly say 'we can not guarentee the sex'. I understand that they are housing babies and you can 'get away' with keeping babies differently to how you would keep adolescent or adult animals but they should be setting a good example. If they are advising that piggys and rabbits should be separated then they should be seperate in ALL stores (not just the ones that have had a re-fit). If they are saying that syrian hamsters should live alone then they should be housing them singly. If they are saying that a hutch is only suitable for 2 piggys then it should not be sold to someone buying 4. if this means that they can not cram in as many animals to sell then tough!

The problem is, regardless of what a few care posters and leaflets say, people will see pets at home doing it and think that they can house/care for an animal in the same way. That is not fair on the animal and in my opinion, pets at home should know better and be taking more responsibility. This also means that they should be taking responsibility for their staff and training them to a higher standard than they are now. Too many mistakes are being made.

Sorry :embarassed: that was a bit of a rant :D
 
neep neep, do you work for Pets at Home? I'm not asking to be nasty or anything, it's just that you seem to know an awful lot about the company procedures ;)

and welcome to the forum :)
 
Sorry you felt in your first few posts on here you had to defend the pet trade. Please don’t let it put you off posting on here. We all have differing opinions.

I couldn’t possibly comment on PetsMart as I never went into one before (due to the fact I had no pets then!) and have only become more aware of the whole pet shop thing since I had piggies and being pro rescue myself I’m not fond of pet shops which sell animals (a personal choice). My post above was an observation made by myself at certain P@H stores (unfortunately the water bottles were not green, they were brown and mungey looking in the bottom and I am very pleased to hear about the rabbits and guineas being separated that is good news!)

Pet shops obviously are not going to stop selling animals just because some of us want them too, understood. But perhaps they need to start employing more specialist staff who really know the animals they are selling, it’s really not encouraging to see signs saying they are unable to sex correctly for example or unwitting new owners going home with pregnant animals, not to mention the ones who buy on impulse losing interest later on. Don’t know what the average staff member gets paid, would bet it’s not much, but wonder if as long as they pay minimum wage, not much will change even with their new and improved company policies?
 
I agree with beaney :) i think everyone has there own experiences and views and there has been alot of posts about p@h my experience has not been very positive but i hope for the animals sake something changes soon, as Ive said on another post the p@h in Bristol no longer sells birds of any kind and it looks like they will house piggies and buns separately. I just think some of the staff may need more adequate training about the animals they sell. :)
 
bobbysgirl said:
neep neep, do you work for Pets at Home? I'm not asking to be nasty or anything, it's just that you seem to know an awful lot about the company procedures ;)

and welcome to the forum :)
I was thinking the same but didnt want to sound rude because i didnt know how to word it if that makes sense ;D i just didnt want to upset neep neep :)
 
Don't worry, Beaney, I completely agree with what you're saying. I also find it completely unacceptable that staff mis-sex, sell ill animals etc. I am certainly in no way defending that! I really just wanted to post and make sure that people knew the difference between P@H and PetsMart - because although I agree with having a bad reputation for the things that ARE done wrong by P@H (mis-sexing etc.) I definitely do not agree with them having a bad reputation for 'beating animals with spades', when the story in question was about a different company. :)

Yes, I do work for P@H :) If I didn't, then I would probably share exactly the same views as all you guys...however, I am in the unfortunate position of being able to see both sides of the argument ;)

I agree about employing 'animal specialists' - but unfortunately, in an interview, somebody can claim that they have kept animals for years and know exactly what they're doing, and it can all sounds really good. Especially if somebody has a Pet Care Trust qualification or an animal care diploma, it looks like they really are animal specialists.

However, you can then hire them and find out later on that they may have kept animals for years, but kept rabbits and guinea pigs together etc. Also, unfortunately, even having a Pet Care Trust qualification doesn't guarantee anything...the PCT actually recommend keeping rabbits and guinea pigs together >:(

Education is the key (but certainly not the current education we have at the moment! i.e. Pet Care Trust, and i've heard some animal colleges are pretty bad too :( )

Is there a UK Guinea Pig organisation that can get in contact with P@H head office? As the RWA (Rabbit Welfare Association) has done this, and have made some changes by working with them.
 
I hope I haven't caused you any offence by asking, it certainly wasn't my intention. :)

We bought our piggies from our local P@H before I joined this, or any, forum. I then joined to get some good advice etc about looking after them and I must admit that I was pretty worried initially with what I read about P@H. I must say though that ours were sexed right by the store, although we weren't given any care sheets, but we haven't had any problems with either of them health wise so I can't say i've had a bad experience from P@H really.
 
No worries, no offence taken! I'm quite an active member on a rat forum where I am openly 'out' about my employment ;D

I also recognise a name or two on this forum, which is lovely to see :)

Honestly, I completely understand why people have such a problem with the company. It just upset me a bit that people thought that we were the same as PetsMart :( although I do understand why people would think so! I am a reasonable individual, so please don't think that i'm one of the bad ones ;D
 
Well, I think it is nice that we have someone here who can give us a different perspective! Glad I didn't cause any offence!

Couple of quick questions then (if you don't mind) - what is P@H policy regarding sick animals? I know that they are removed from sale initially but then is it a case of getting them well and back out on the shop floor or are they then deemed not fit for sale so homed another way? Would P@H disclose to potential new owners that the animal had already been treated for a condition?

If you can't answer (either because you don't know or because it wouldn't be appropriate to) then no worries but I was just curious - especially since this thread started as a result of someone reporting a sick bunny.
 
If an animal is sick, then basically it has to be treated - it is a *legal* requirement that pet shops must treat sick animals. If it is out on the shop floor, then it will be taken 'out back' (sounds ominous I know, but that basically means the isolation room!) and then if necessary taken to the vet. I'm lucky as I work in a store with an on-site vet, so it's easy to see the vet on the same day they get ill.

It all depends on what the illness was, as to whether they are resold or not...if it's something that is easily treated and won't recur, then they will likely go back on sale. For example, if a guinea pig had lice then they would be Ivomec'd, then put back on sale when given the all clear by the vet.
However, if it's something that is likely to be a recurring problem, then they wouldn't go back on sale. Before, it used to be up to individual staff to find these animals homes - either that or they would be returned to the breeder, simply because it is against the law to knowingly sell ill or deformed animals. However, a new adoption scheme is being trialled, so any animals which wouldn't normally be able to be sold are given a second chance through adoption :) The animal would have a description explaining why it was up for adoption, so rehomers are aware of any potential recurring problems.

I'm not entirely sure on company policy regarding telling people about previous treatments, but I know that we as a store tend let people know.
 
Is it "company policy" to feed the guinea pigs excel? Because I can assure you, the ones in my 3 immediately local stores are fed own brand nuggets - how can the same pellets possibly meet the nutritional needs of both rabbits and guinea pigs? Are they only fed vegetables when the customers are gone? I have never seen timothy hay in their racks, either (even if it was there the P@H timothy is of the lowest quality, anyway), merely the dry, chopped strand hay you can buy there in bulk.

Let me also let you know, if you didn't know already, that as soon as Syrian hamsters reach sexual maturity (which is only a few weeks old) then the fighting can begin. All the Syrians I've seen lately have been several MONTHS old judging by their size and housed together.
 
As this was all started by me :embarassed: I guess i better state how i feel about p@h!

I go to p@h every 2 weeks to buy their rabbit and guinea pig food. I only do this as i find their own brand of rabbit mix has dramaticlly inproved my older bunnies coats and overall health, I also buy their own brand guinea pellets, as my guineas enjoys them!

Now to the pets....

I don't dissagree with keeping rabbit and guineas together (i have them together myself) BUT i don't like them in such large numbers! My rabbit is very laid back and thinks she is a guinea pig anyway  ;D So they get on very well (my guinea always snuggles up to my bunny as she is big, fat and warm :) ) I also have another r+g couple. Hope is a netherland dwarf and is only as big as my guinea pig, and hope doesn't like other rabbits but LOVES my guinea! Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that only very rarely should r+g's be kept together, i have noticed skippy baby bunnies knock a huddle of guinea flying!

The water bottles in nottinghams p@h make me sick! they are full of algea, and look liek the havn't been cleaned for months and months!

I was dissapointed to find this sick rabbit when i went in, hadn't already been spotted. I was in the shop half an hour before my bf called me over..so why had a member of staff not noticed all morning?

I have bought a rabbit from there before, and he is perfectly healthy, yet i wasn't asked whether i had a cage, what food i had ready, or any tips on how to look after Rex rabbits in the winter (there fur is alot shorter and they need to be kept warmer). I also wasn't asked for my age! and i was under their age limit for buying pets!

I do like the fact that p@h have put the prices up, to stop people making such quick decisions on buying animals!

I hate the fact that p@h still use sawdust for all rodents (except their rats) as sawdust is absolute poisen to any animal! research has shown this since the 1970's yet poeple still use it!

Ok i will shut up now, i could be here for hours and i want a cup of tea  ;D

Jeanette
 
Is it "company policy" to feed the guinea pigs excel? Because I can assure you, the ones in my 3 immediately local stores are fed own brand nuggets

They are the same thing ;)

Veggies are normally fed first thing in the morning, so usually all gone by opening time or mid morning.

Let me also let you know, if you didn't know already, that as soon as Syrian hamsters reach sexual maturity (which is only a few weeks old) then the fighting can begin.

Why the patronising tone? It isn't necessary.
Sexual maturity = 6-8 weeks old (generally). In my 4 years of employment, I have rarely seen them fight at 5 weeks old. And when they begin to show aggression, they are separated. Simple as. In the cages of syrians you have seen, how many of these have been battered and bloodied? Honestly, they are normally sold before agression begins. It would make no sense keeping adults together, it would just result in injuries and vet bills.

I have never seen timothy hay in their racks, either (even if it was there the P@H timothy is of the lowest quality, anyway), merely the dry, chopped strand hay you can buy there in bulk.
Next time you see this, ask a member of staff if they have checked company policy lately - it should be Timothy hay in the racks.

The water bottles in nottinghams p@h make me sick! they are full of algea, and look liek the havn't been cleaned for months and months!
If the bottles are green, it will be the probiotic ;)

Ok i will shut up now, i could be here for hours and i want a cup of tea
;D ;D Cup of tea sounds like a brilliant idea! I'll get the kettle on ;)
 
I have been in some lovely p@h stores..i just think the Nottingham one has to improve. Although i can honestly say i can see them doing that! (sort of) I was pleased to see prices going up and afew more care sheets about! Also Nottingham p@h have got alot more books in store, which i love....self confessed obsessive animal book buyer :embarassed: (did that make sense?) lol

My cuppa was lovely..how about yours neep neep? :)
 
Absolutely - don't get me wrong, I completely agree that there is still a lot to be done, and staff seem to have a habit of mucking things up 98)

All I can do is to encourage people to speak to a member of staff or management if they see something wrong instore - and if they don't feel the situation was resolved properly, then send a letter to head office. There is a customer services email address on the website - hopefully that will encourage them to change for the better!

Hehe, my cuppa was lovely! Had a couple of those new caramel digestives with it....mmm, divine! :smitten:
 
neep_neep said:
Absolutely - don't get me wrong, I completely agree that there is still a lot to be done, and staff seem to have a habit of mucking things up 98)

All I can do is to encourage people to speak to a member of staff or management if they see something wrong instore - and if they don't feel the situation was resolved properly, then send a letter to head office. There is a customer services email address on the website - hopefully that will encourage them to change for the better!

Hehe, my cuppa was lovely! Had a couple of those new caramel digestives with it....mmm, divine! :smitten:

did someone mention biccies?
and wheres mine? ?
 
You managed to just stop at a couple? :o You're good ;) ;D
 
nnnnoooooo stop it... don't tempt me with your evil biscuits! i'm on a diet  ;D I'm going on holiday soon, and i don't want to look like a porker in my bikini lol I have lost 4lbs already and i started on Friday!
 
lol nice one :) Ive been wanting biscuits too latley but we dont have any :( lol
 
ahhh blow it ,i think ill just go and fish about in the freezer for some raspberry ripple ice cream and add some sugar strands and sauce to it,oh and some cherries
 
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