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Parsnip - looks like a bladder stone

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alisont

alisont

Adult Guinea Pig
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Took Parsnip to the vets tonight for his regular dental visit (Parsnip has peg teeth and needs regular dentals as in about every 2-3 weeks)
The vet found the teeth to be in their usual state and sorted those but he was wanting to check Parsnips rear end as that's caused concern on the past visit - Vet suspected a urine infection so gave Parsnip antibiotics and he did perk up.


However vets now said he's felt a bladder stone tonight and is now saying about possible surgery but there are concerns with Parsnips general decline in health - vets said about moving to a low calcium diet but is thinking long term that surgery is what he feels is the right option.


Vet wants to try antibiotics but wants me to have a think about surgery option.


Parsnip has not had an X-ray as yet but vet has felt a stone tonight and says he thinks surgery is the best option. He wants me to reduce calcium in the diet and use the antibiotics over the next week then will see where we go. I presume an X-ray would be the next step.


I was a bit I shock as I thought we had just gone for the routine dental visit tonight.


Poor old Parsnip - this is not what he needs at a couple of months off 5 years old.

the idea of GA and older guineas always fills me with dread.
 
Sorry to hear about your surprise news for Parsnip. I agree, get an X-ray first so at least you know exactly what you are dealing with then you will be far better placed to make a decision over surgery.

Best wishes to you & your piggies, shiny :)
 
Thanks, yes I'd want an X-ray before I agree to any surgery - I think the vet would want one too as it gives a much clearer view of what is wrong.

The way Parsnip is I'm just not sure he's strong enough for surgery - he's 5 soon and isn't that strong since his dental issues - I will really need to think things through about this one over the next week:{
 
Hugs to you and lots of love to Parsnip x
 
Hi!

So sorry to hear about the stones. I have had 3 experiences with my guinea pigs and in each one suffered differently. I will give you a brief so it will hopefully give you some ideas of what can happen.

The first we think she had them for at least a couple of years but my vets didn't even suggest stones everytime I took her in for squeaking and passing blood. They had finally diagnosed bladder stones and she had the massive op to remove them (the same day) which she never recovered from. We though she would get better after alot of nursing (she wasn't able to do much for herself for a few weeks and needed alot of care) but the reason she didn't recover was because they missed a huge stone blocking her urethra and she passed away - I presume from not being able to wee. They had refused to remove it saying I was imaging it as I rushed her in to them - but I got it out afterwards and it was about 4mm thick! (she was about 3yrs old). If they had flushed her urethra first to push the stone out, they could have removed this at the same time and she might have still been with us.

One piggy went downhill within a couple of weeks with no signs of stones or anything else that would indicate stone. Unfortunately, because he was a boar, they struggled to remove the stone (it was blocking his urethra and they couldn't get the tube up there to flush it out) and he was so poorly, we had to have him pts which was heartbreaking. (he was about 3yr old)

Our latest one (who is now about 5 yrs old) had hers for at least a year. No symptoms at all until very recently when she looked ruffled up and a bit skinny. We had had her x-rayed about 6 months prior because I felt a stone by her urethra but the vet said there was nothing there. This last time, I insisted on another xray and lo and behold, there was a huge stone (I have it - it;s massive and shaped to her opening so it had been forming for a while). I got them to bring out the original xray and it quite clearly showed the same stone. I was furious and now refuse to see the vet who had taken it (and the one that was responsible for not removing our first piggies stone!).
Anyway, the other reason we took her in was because she seemed quite bloated - but very skinny (she ate well which was strange). They found her to have enlarged kidneys as well as the stone. I surmised that it might be possible her kidneys were damaged from the stone blockage but we couldn't do anything about those so we had to think that if she was going downhill, I want to give her a chance of a comfortable few months/years without the stone. They removed it and to be honest, it has taken her a good while to recover but we took her in when she went downhill and she eats loads and has put on weight a bit more now. She has changed so much and is much more loving and loves having her tummy stroked whilst lying on her side when her kidneys get sore. I am glad that we took the risk but know that it could have gone the other way.

The thing is, unless the vets can successfully analyise the stone to see what it is made up of, bladder stones can be caused by having too much calcium as well as not having enough.

I fed my pigs:-

best timothy herbage hay.
Excel pellets.

B'fast - mixed bowl of broccoli, carrots, mixed peppers, apple, tomatoes, cucumber, radishes (and a few different things in summer).
Dinner - mixed leaves or herbs.

Now all I was told to cut down on for her were the dark leafy greens, broccoli, parsley (I did used to probably give them way too much so I have massively cut down on that now for all of them). Otherwise what they eat seemed fine.

I hope some of the above helps with making a decision. It's always a hard one and it depends where the stone is. Major op he will need alot of care and warmth but they ideally need to double check he has no stones around his urethra before opening him up. Mine had to be gassed to get a proper look (most of the time they xray them whilst fully awake) but it's worth doing although that also has risks.

It sounds like you have a savvy vet though if he has felt the stones and there is alot of info on the forums here re stones but unfortunately, it's going to be pot luck and up to your piggy how the deal with it.

Good luck and I really hope it all goes well for you

x
 
Thanks I shall have a good re read of the thread tonight and 'digest' the information.
Parsnip is in himself ok today, I'm reading up on low calcium diets and will be reducing certain foods over the next week - I don't think its wise to suddenly cut things they are use to out but will alter things over a few days.

Ive left a message for the vet to ring me tomorrow as I'd like to get Parsnip X-rayed and want some urine test sticks too.

At the moment I'm thinking against surgery - my gut feeling is he's not strong enough - he's nearly 5 and has dental issues as in peg teeth and needs the teeth filing down every 2 weeks, I feel bad enough putting him through that so often, he looks so tired and skinny recently but he's still interested in life and his food/water. I just don't know if I can put him through surgery - and more so the recovery spell, if I can alter diet and monitor him and use pain relief I'd like to keep him going as long as I can. But I'd not want him to suffer, that's for sure.

There is also his brother Melvin to consider he's a very chunky guinea only health issue is fatty lumps but those don't bother him. He would be lost without Parsnip they are so close.

My other concern is the after care and recovery - I'm out weekdays from 8-5/5.30 which worries me, as I presume he would need a lot of care.

Will monitor over the next week and he's on antibiotics, he's not squeaking when he wees and does not appear to be in pain but is looking old/tired but I'd put that down to the dental issues.

Such a big thing to have to decide on - I do want the best for him but if I can get him xrayed that will be a good starting point so the vet can see what the situation is. They will hate being at the vets all day but you have to drop off before work and collect after with our vets.

Dear me - this is all very stressful:{
 
oh Alison, :..., thinking of you and Parsnip, what a horrible dilemma. Virtual healing vibes and hugs being sent from us xx
 
I'm sure you will make the right decision on how you feel as you know your pet better than the vet and what he would cope with. It is very difficult I know and heartbreaking making either decision but whatever you do, don't regret your choice if it doesn't work out. Piggies can't talk so its always a 50/50 chance on what will work.

Good luck and sending lots of love from my 6 piggies x
 
My vet left a message for me today to say yes he can X-ray Parsnip but he said he definitely felt a stone so hadn't suggested an X-ray as it meant another £80 on top of the cost of surgery. He will X-ray if I want an X-ray. His advice is to go for the surgery with an X-ray if I don't mind paying forth at (I've never said that money is an issue with my animals).

i've decided at the moment to monitor Parsnip and have the week of antibiotics maybe more.

I've sat watching him and he's not squeaking when he wees, or lifting up a lot, he's eating and drinking and seems happy enough sat cuddled up to Melvin. However he is a dental pig with an unusual dental issue of peg teeth. He is also nearly 5, I know I've had a guinea last until 10 once but most of mine go around 5. At the moment I'm not feeling confident about the surgery I'ts so are to know if they are in pain, he's not showing me signs but animals can mask pain. I don't think this will have a happy outcome either way but at the moment I'm just spending as much time as I can with him and will take it a day at a time.
 
Parsnip had been a lot better recently but he's now not as good - he seems to be starting a bad patch again, typically when my vets away for another week:{ I'd rather not see another vet but will if I have to.

I think another course of Septrin might be the best, he's now at times more incontinent and not eating as much as he was which is not a good sign. I can start syringe feeds but only twice a day when I'm at work in the week. He's drinking lots as usual.
i think it's another UTI.

Melvin is looking after him - tonight when I put some sliced cucumber in Melvin grabbed a bit and took it off to the little nest box that Parsnip was in and dropped it down to him - how sweet is that!

I hope he doesn't go downhill fast but I've got metacam here if needed and Septrin.

Getting to the vets won't be fun - our roads sheet ice/snow and pavements are awful -I'd have to walk as my Dad can't drive for a week after his heart op and Mum won't drive in the snow - I'm fine walking but always panic in case I slip and drop the boys.

Hope I can help him, I've made the decision not to have him operated on for his bladder stone due to age (5) and health (poor due to dental issues) I want him to enjoy life and everything as long as he can, but I won't see him suffer. Will start Septrin and give some metacam and see tomorrow which vets are about this week.
 
Sending you some hugs Alison and lots of healing vibes to Parsnip. Hope the Septrin will help. Is he on metacam daily? Maybe cystease may be worth a try also.
Bless Melvin for looking after him.
 
I hope things go ok next week. My piggy had a stone out in Jan but was pulled out of her as it was in her vulva. She was not good and I thought she would die before the op. She was is some pain. A vet wanted to put her down and I said no my other vet said she could do it. it shows the right vet helps. I am not sure what you should do. I payed over a grand in jan on three piggies and I lost one. I had every test done, I paid more for more x rays for the bladder stone as it helped the vet locate it, not in her bladder! I know your baby is a boy. good luck, see what the vets say if you have a good one they will help you do what's right. x
 
Lots of cuddles to Parsnip & his kind friend Melvin xx
 
Thanks:)

Parsnips been very chirpy recently eating well, racing to the front to greet me but I'm thinking we are possibly on the turn soon. He's not to me or the vet needed metacam but I've got it here and Septrin. I've started the antibiotics tonight and a dose of metacam.

My guinea savvy vets away for another week so I shall be speaking/seeing another vet this week, I'm after rimadyl to keep in as pain relief.

Will monitor daily how he is but I don't want surgery option for him, he's now I feel too old and a dental piggy too with peg teeth, I'd not put him through surgery, it's nothing financial I'd pay my last penny for him and have my animal fund/credit card if ever needed but I don't feel surgery is a good option for Parsnip.

He's a fighter so fingers crossed he will keep fighting this for as long as is possible.
 
He's in the best of hands with you.
 
I hope he continues to have a good life for as long as possible and I think the decision you made not to have him operated on was the right one. Kim Maddock once said something that has really stuck with me. She said 'just because we can, doesn't always mean we should'. As we gain more and more knowledge about these little guys it can sometimes feel that we need to always jump in with surgery, but I truly believe that each case has to be looked at individually.
 
Back from the vets, it was not a happy visit but I have found out some more information and feel I have some more answers I needed after tonight.

My regular vet is away so I have seen another vet, she spent half an hour with me and Parsnip.

Parsnip has taken a downward turn over the weekend, he's got that look now of an animal that has given up and has lost that chirpy side and I can see in his eyes he's part gone - if anyone knows what I mean, I realise that could mean he's in pain, hence the vets visit tonight. He's also been incontinent and isn't as interested in food so weight loss has started.

The vet examined him, including listening to his heart, dental check (for once the teeth are not causing problems) she could not feel the stone and said the only way to be sure was a scan/X-ray. As Parsnip was sat as still as can be she said she would try a scan as she felt he needed no sedation, she felt he would also be able to have a conscious X-ray he was so still but that would need to be done in the daytime.

The scan was successful and she has seen the stone that is huge, one of the largest she's seen in a guinea, it's filling most of the bladder, Parsnip had a wee on the table so she got that and tested it and its mainly blood.

She mentioned surgery but I said I'd decided against it and why and she agreed with Parsnip it's a massive risk and said due to the stone size it would be complicated. If Parsnip was younger and healthier I might think more towards surgery but no not now with him.

So we are looking at palliative care, metacam was suggested, but I asked for Rimadyl (had had advice before this visit that rimadyl is best to use) I will try that see how we go, I'm also going to try starting syringe feeds if he doesn't start eating.

I don't know how long we have left - from what was said tonight I don't think we will be talking too long, but I'll see how things go, I think Parsnip must be in some pain going on the size of the stone.

Parsnips eaten a bit once home but he's not a well boy.
 
Oh thinking of you at this time. I hope parsnip is rested this evening xx
 
Sorry Alison, big hugs to you and love to Parsnip. x
 
So sorry about Parsnip :(

I hope the Rimadyl can give him some good quality of life.

Best wishes to you both xx
 
Might be worthwhile getting him on tramadol before P stones where discovered and removed - tramadol controlled his pain he cried everyday until he was put on Tramadol. A few months later stones showed in P's ureter the vet was able to remove them and my little man had 6 months pain free. He was 5 and a half and recovered very well despite having major surgery!

I hope Parsnips pain can be controlled. x
 
Parsnips been having his rimadyl - he just eats his bits of a tablet if put in his mouth such a good boy.

Have to say he seemed ok this morning - came out for something's to eat and was ok but he's not well, you can tell, there has been a difference in him since Sunday.

I wish he could tell me if he was in any pain - I know he could be animals mask pain so well, his eyes have got that certain look now. Melvins at his side wherever he chooses to sit - I really worry how Melvin will be without Parsnip.

In all honesty I can't see Parsnip being with me too much longer, always a tricky one when an animals eating and drinking themselves to a certain level but both my vet and a guinea expert I know feel he must be in some level of pain - I feel I will have to let him go soon :( Will see how he goes tonight. My vets are aware of the situation and I can ring them anytime to take him in if needed. They want to see how he goes with the rimadyl for a few days.
 
I can't recommend Tramadol highly enough it was P's life saver - it is an opium pain killer so very powerful and P managed exceptionally well on the drug, he was very vocal so I always knew when he was in pain.

If Parsnip is eating and drinking perhaps surgery maybe worth the risk, I found my P did remarkably well and he to had to have dental's regularly but he took it all in his stride. I can only share my own experiences I'm sure you'll make the right decision for Parsnip, it's always such a hard call!

Gentle strokes to Parsnip, and hugs to you Alison I know just hard these decisions are. x
 
I think it is worth considering if he will die without the op anyway is it worth a try anyway? I think if you feel his odds are so poor with an op it is not worth him suffering in the last days. Good luck making your decisions, I am sure you will do the best for him. Xx
 
Thanks, I'll ask the vets about tramadol, see if I can get some.

I'm not wanting to put Parsnip through surgery, he's around 5 and only 725g or so now, I don't want that for him, and have spoken to the vets in depth, he's got other issues - mainly his unusual peg teeth so the anaesthetic is a risk and the recovery.

He's eating well tonight, and is enjoying time with Melvin his brother - they are so close.

Just monitoring on a daily basis at the mo.
 
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