Pets at Home - Do we need to campaign and become more active rather than grumbling?!

[Juniper]

How about someone actually conducts a proper survey into the origins of pets surrendered for rescue.
Please don’t assume that because a pig is of a ‘recognisable breed’ it has come from a show breeder. Even these wretched pet mills where pet shops can order pigs by the dozen name their breeds.

government intervention, if this was to go ahead and the only way was to go direct to breeders it would create so many more problems with unhealthy, inbred guinea pigs being bred for a quick £5.

Please don’t tar us all with the same brush.
If I did my calculations and realised that we had made £5 profit I would be celebrating ….and I don’t mean £5 on ONE pig…I mean a TOTAL £5 profit overall in 30 years of keeping pigs. After all this time, we are thousands upon thousands out of pocket. I really wonder how anyone could possibly ‘be in it for the money’. I cannot honestly begin to see where anyone can cut enough corners to make a profit.. …even £5 in 30 years:{

Going to a rescue or a breeder takes effort, organisation and time both on the part of the breeder/rescue and the future pet owner. Calling into P@H takes no effort – except a quick detour between Next and PC World (or whatever) I truly believe that this is the source of the problem impulse buys.

By the way Sophie, “the most unhealthy pigs I have here are from a 'breeder' and they're going to be in pain for the rest of their (short) livesâ€
you do not say what condition these pigs are suffering from, but if there is no hope of them being cured and are actually in pain for the rest of their lives wouldn’t euthanasia be the kindest option (and the option that a responsible breeder should have taken if he/she was aware of their condition).

 

[lincolnsmommy]

I dont see how getting a guinea pig from a breeder is hard work. theres hundreds of ads on gumtree and preloved from breeders. One phone call and as many guinea pigs as you want are yours (for a fee of course). I cannot see where you are coming from. There are to many guinea pigs out there needing a home at rescues without people breeding more. I find it unreasonable and unfair.

 

[sophiew (EAGPR)]

By the way Sophie, “the most unhealthy pigs I have here are from a 'breeder' and they're going to be in pain for the rest of their (short) livesâ€
you do not say what condition these pigs are suffering from, but if there is no hope of them being cured and are actually in pain for the rest of their lives wouldn’t euthanasia be the kindest option (and the option that a responsible breeder should have taken if he/she was aware of their condition).

They have bad bones and joint problems which makes them walk oddly, and bad teeth... all of which are being treated, and are a result of in-breeding and malnutrition. As long as they are eating and seem happy, I'm certainly going to give them a chance.

You'll also notice that I said after the above that I've had other pigs from breeders who are healthy and lovely.... I'm not anti-breeders, I'm anti breeders who breed indiscrimenently! Whether it's pet mills or people in it for a quick buck.

Sophie
x

 

[susie_q]

juniper - i think you can't see how there is any profit in small animal farming, because you are a responsible breeder. You invest in every single pig you breed, where as breeding farms will back to back breed animals, in small enclosures, without stimulation, and probably without proper feeding either. And when their stock can no longer breed, they are killed and probably sold as snake food. It's sad, but it's true.

I think we can all aknowledge the difference between backyard breeders and responsible breeders, but this forum, and this thread, are not here to discuss the two issues.

Also, Angleadeedah - I would also be happy to help you rehome your next piggies - drop me a line as well.

 

[Juniper]

theres hundreds of ads on gumtree and preloved from breeders.

Not from us there isn’t I can categorically assure you!

One phone call and as many guinea pigs as you want are yours

Sorry but not from us you won’t.
For the main colours of our particular breed we have a waiting list. If we don’t trust someone with our animals they won’t even get on the waiting list.

I cannot see where you are coming from. There are to many guinea pigs out there needing a home at rescues without people breeding more. I find it unreasonable and unfair

We happen to want our own pigs. I don't wish to adopt either pigs or children. At the same time, I don't wish any (of either species) that I have chosen to produce to cause a problem to anyone else. Wouldn't it be a great world if everyone else did the same.

 

[Juniper]

They have bad bones and joint problems which makes them walk oddly, and bad teeth... all of which are being treated, and are a result of in-breeding and malnutrition. As long as they are eating and seem happy, I'm certainly going to give them a chance.

Thank you for clearing that up. I understand why you would give them a chance and hopefully (if they are reasonably young) they could make a full recovery. I had assumed that you were referring to OD or micropthalmia.

 

[MarthaAndMaud]

Sorry to say Juniper but the most unhealthy guinea pigs I have seen also come from a breeder who has bred the two sows back to back.

One died just a couple of weeks ago. She had teeth problems so bad they have never been seen like that before. She had no weight on her at all and her joints were stiff.

We tried hard to help her but she gave up on life. The companion she has left behind has a horrid eye infection and is also very thin and boney. I do know that these were a result of a quick £5 but on this occasion the breeder was more than happy to part with them.

 

[Layla - NSGPR]

Things have gone slightly off topic as I was raising an issue with Pet Shops rather than breeders. Although as this is a pro-rescue site I guess reactions to breeders aren't going to be that positive.

I have done my figures and of piggies that came to the rescue this year 90 were bought from pet shops and 36 came from breeders.

So my numbers reflect a bigger problem with pet shops at the moment.

It may reflect the area, where there isn't a huge demand for guinea pigs, so there are not too many breeders, but I must say I don't know of many breeders in area who carry out home checks and provide after care support for the piggies lifetime. The experiences I have had with them is when they have come to vets to have their guinea pigs PTS as they do not want to treat them :-(

Just looked in the paper and seen the local pet shop ad - Buy a hutch and get a free guinea pig or rabbit to go in it. How bad is this, and just before Christmas.

 

[daftscotslass]

Just a note to say remember the topic of this thread... and try to keep it on topic as much as possible

 

[Layla - NSGPR]

Not from us there isn’t I can categorically assure you!

Sorry but not from us you won’t.
For the main colours of our particular breed we have a waiting list. If we don’t trust someone with our animals they won’t even get on the waiting list.

We happen to want our own pigs. I don't wish to adopt either pigs or children. At the same time, I don't wish any (of either species) that I have chosen to produce to cause a problem to anyone else. Wouldn't it be a great world if everyone else did the same.

I don't think anyone is challenging you specifically. What lincolnsmummy is saying is true, even if you don't advertise, many breeders do, and the price for a piggy usually is about £5, which isn't really good enough to ensure they go to good homes, as it presents the piggies as cheap and dispensable. That's great if you put people on a waiting list, this again probably ensures it is people who really want a guinea pig and are prepared to wait, but it is the usual case that they are just easy to obtain, no home checks and cheap. I just wonder how you decide whether you trust someone with your animals or not? I know that from my point of view a phone call is not enough. A thorough home check with post checks are required. I know that most breeders do not do this. I am interested that you say you want your own guinea pigs, that is fine if you are prepared to keep them and remain responsible for them like you would your own children, but the fact they are sold changes this. Yes I want my own children but I certainly won't be selling them - no matter how good the home offered is. Therefore to me, I would much rather offer a home to a guinea pig that needs a home, it is here nor there whether it is born in my back garden or not. Having had over 100 guinea pigs come into my care this year, I couldn't even contemplate breeding them. I think far more is to be gained from adopting animals that need homes, breed when the rescues are empty!

 

[sophiew (EAGPR)]

Most of the ones coming into rescue here are because the owners lost interest, and the pigs originally came from pet shops or auction or freecycle.

Some are dumped but most handed over due to lack of time / money etc. I do keep records and will happily share the info, perhaps all rescues on here could do something similar and the results could be interesting.

If anyone's interested in doing so, I'd happily come up with a list - perhaps record the 'original source' of the pig and the reason for handing them over?

Sophie
x

 

[sophiew (EAGPR)]

That's why DaftScotlass said keep it on track! Which I was.... see above...

Mod note: (The above posts that Sophie was referring to have been removed, as the other member had already deleted them, rendering this part of the thread confusing).

 

[boureki]

... the price for a piggy usually is about £5, which isn't really good enough to ensure they go to good homes, as it presents the piggies as cheap and dispensable. That's great if you put people on a waiting list, this again probably ensures it is people who really want a guinea pig and are prepared to wait, but it is the usual case that they are just easy to obtain, no home checks and cheap.

I completely agree. I know I have mentioned this recently already on a different thread, but feel I have to mention it here as it is relevant to this thread.
I was approached couple of months back by a work colleague I know very well who knew I was involved in rescue - this lady rang me in a hurry one Saturday afternoon and asked for details of the the local rescue, which I duly gave; I then said that they would not be available at that point of time, and she would have to wait until Monday to make an appointment when they re-opened.

This wasn't enough for her, she wanted them NOW and now is what she got - P@H pigs, later that day. Less than 4 weeks later she asked me to rehome them for her because hubbie wasn't paying them enough attention and they got bored.

So I share your frustration at the pet shops, the ease at which the animals can be bought, the mentality of disposabilty of small animals, and the irritation at those who cannot plead ignorance of rescue because they know they exist, but need that animal NOW. I feel that writing a letter to this pet shop for every pig of theirs I have to find a home for is a very good idea indeed. There needs to be a national research statistic or something to indicate what a problem this is.

 

[daftscotslass]

So I share your frustration at the pet shops, the ease at which the animals can be bought, the mentality of disposabilty of small animals, and the irritation at those who cannot plead ignorance of rescue because they know they exist, but need that animal NOW. I feel that writing a letter to this pet shop for every pig of theirs I have to find a home for is a very good idea indeed. There needs to be a national research statistic or something to indicate what a problem this is.

I could almost predict the reply you'd get to this letter. You'd get told that they have an adoption section for such circumstances so it needn't be your problem. They'll take the pig back when people are bored with it, "sell" it on while tugging at the heartstrings of the public who walk through the store to see the adoptables and spend money in the shop on things they didn't need.

Bah.

 

[MemberX]

Like Pudsey who was from the adoption centre, I was told he was allergic to woodshavings now he does sneeze and cough more than the others but not overly so but is he really allergic? He was 3 months old when we got him? makes you think is it really the case that he does have an allergy or was he too old to stay there!

One thing I really want to know is where to the animals come from. Having watched the Rainbow Exotic Videos of the animal mills and yep I know its American but it makes me wonder do we have animal mills here? Or are the animals imported?

Once while at a bad pet store here (I used to visit with the girls before we got guineas just to look at the animals, don't do that now I'm educated!) There was a lady there handing over her 'stock' of baby bunnies as her rabbits bred! So I know its not just large breeders that sell on the animals but local people too.

 

[Juniper]

do we have animal mills here?
.

Yep ..... this one sounds lovely (not) do you want to order 10 pigs or 20+ for a discount? Click on 'Products & Prices'. The 'products' include texels etc (they can't spell texel though !)
http://www.simonsrodents.co.uk/
Only thing that makes me laugh is that they define a 'trio' as two boars and one sow. That’s an ideal breeding trio ....one boar maims the other and then claims the sow. Imbeciles.

Or are the animals imported?

Never managed to get to the bottom of this one. Heard the 'lorry loads from Eastern Europe' thing but have no proof. Anyone?

So I know its not just large breeders that sell on the animals but local people too.

No, Pets at Home changed their policy about 3-4 years ago about buying from local breeders. In a few areas where they can't get them (or presumably the 'mills' won't deliver) they will buy from local breeders but it is rare.

 

[Vikki]

P@H are supplied by a rodent mill called gay meadows for their guinea pigs but I have not yet been able to find out much more information about them than the name. They are the sole suppliers of P@H guineapigs to norwich stores this was confirmed by the manager and I think nationally as far as I have been led to believe. They would not give out further details and I only got the name by talking to an unsuspecting member of staff before the manager interviened they were very cagey about it.

 

[elh20]

oh my god that is awful! and call me stupid-but for what reason would they be selling hedgehogs?!can someone not email this idiot esp with advice on 'trio of GPs'! i couldn't help noticing the PETERBOROUGH postcode as well.....

 

[louiser]

P@H are supplied by a rodent mill called gay meadows for their guinea pigs but I have not yet been able to find out much more information about them than the name. They are the sole suppliers of P@H guineapigs to norwich stores this was confirmed by the manager and I think nationally as far as I have been led to believe. They would not give out further details and I only got the name by talking to an unsuspecting member of staff before the manager interviened they were very cagey about it.

Ive just had a look for this "Gay Meadows" on the website, I can confirm that there is no company called this either Ltd or Non Ltd! Must be trading under a different name.

Also I have been having a good nose at the p@h website and looked at the actual write up about guinea pigs for sale and this is what they have written:

Guinea Pig
Guinea Pigs are one of the world's most popular pets. They are inexpensive, undemanding, hardy and sociable creatures. They make ideal children's pets, although are sometimes nervous but rarely bite or scratch; inquisitive and friendly, Guinea Pigs like to be handled and are very talkative! Guinea Pigs on average live for 4-8 years.

How wrong are they!!

Also this section is interesting on their Pets at Home Charitable Foundation:

http://www.petsathome.com/AboutPetsAtHome/Pets-at-Home-Charitable-Foundation?_s_peprm=bottomnav

 

[louiser]

Never managed to get to the bottom of this one. Heard the 'lorry loads from Eastern Europe' thing but have no proof. Anyone?

I have heard of this too from one of the guys at my work, he isnt in the office much but when he is next in I'll grill him for info!

 

[louiser]

I think we need to make people aware of rescue centres rather than them using pet shops. I didn't realise there were so many rescues/unwanted guinea pigs until I started on this forum.

Perhaps we could do a advertising campaign to promote rescues, Ill get my thinking cap on!

 

[Layla - NSGPR]

Thank you

Yes any kind of campaigning nationally would be useful to make people more aware. So any ideas would be really useful and gratefully received.

I am currently talking to another local rabbit rescue about upping publicity as they are having horrendous problems with pets at home at the moment.

I am absolutely shocked about these animal mills. I really didn't realise that the animals were bred like this to this extent for pet shops, I knew they exisited for the testing laboratories. Would it be the same farms that breed for the labs that do for the pet shops? I have seen the conditions these animals are bred in after seeing one shut down locally after the conditions the animals were in were revealed.

I would be very interested if any one does find out any more about these mills where Pets and Homes guinea pigs are coming from. All this information would be very useful in any campaigning, it would also be useful to find an ex Pets at Home employee who may have this information.

At the moment I am making my adopters aware of what I know (i.e. I am getting lots of unwanted animals bought from there and unwanted litters due to missexing and them arriving pregnant) and have sent an e-mail asking them to not shop at pet shops selling animals. So far I have had a very positive response with people seeking other pet stores, Jolley's inparticular has been very good, and have supoorted local animal rescue fundraisers at their store.

I am not very aware of legal issues - so I wonder if any one who is could advise on the legal aspects of revealing Pets at Homes way of obtaining animals. I wouldn't want to be done for slander!

I am really grateful at the information you are finding out, and am really pleased that this thread is gathering this information, it will certainly help guide me in campaigning/publicity for pro rescue locally and I will certainly be forwarding this information to other local rescues.

 

[Layla - NSGPR]

Yep ..... this one sounds lovely (not) do you want to order 10 pigs or 20+ for a discount? Click on 'Products & Prices'. The 'products' include texels etc (they can't spell texel though !)
http://www.simonsrodents.co.uk/
Only thing that makes me laugh is that they define a 'trio' as two boars and one sow. That’s an ideal breeding trio ....one boar maims the other and then claims the sow. Imbeciles.

Never managed to get to the bottom of this one. Heard the 'lorry loads from Eastern Europe' thing but have no proof. Anyone?

No, Pets at Home changed their policy about 3-4 years ago about buying from local breeders. In a few areas where they can't get them (or presumably the 'mills' won't deliver) they will buy from local breeders but it is rare.

Thanks for this useful information. I have been looking at the website and it states that Our policy is to take back any of our animals which have grown too big for sale and exchange them ensuring our customers always have saleable stock I really think it is terrible. But I am very concerned about what may happen to these animals if they are returned? I'm feeling sick thinking about it, so hope that it something reassuring like they go to a sanctuary!

 

[Layla - NSGPR]

Sorry more - I just found this on the Greenwich rabbit rescue site who are trying to legally challenge Pets at Home, I have contacted them to see if they have any more useful info or anyway other local rescues can get involved

'We also now have a contact working INSIDE PETS AT HOME who will be obtaining film and audio of consignments of dead and dying baby rabbits arriving from the mass breeding centre that Pets at Home use to supply their stores, some so young they dont even have their eyes open, some who have been so poorly bred they have teeth malocclusion at just 6 weeks of age. As well as several other pieces of evidence to take to the national press should we need to''

 

[sophiew (EAGPR)]

They also supply frozen animals for snake food, I fear this is what happens to the ones they take back that are 'too large' to be sold.

Sophie
x

 

[lincolnsmommy]

Is it worth contacting this moron and askin what happens to the animals to big for sale? See if its poss to get them in rescues rather than frozen foods?

 

[sophiew (EAGPR)]

The trouble is that to these sort of people, animals really are just 'stock' - as in live stock. If they can't make money selling them live to pet shops, they'll sell them dead... sad but true.

They care about profit not welfare and it will be a tough job to change that. Better to go at it from a public's point of view, like Hugh and the chickens - if they knew where they were coming from, they might think twice about buying them?

Sophie
x

 

[lincolnsmommy]

Well why dont we all go to our local newpapers? the standard and advertiser? make people aware of what is going on. Explain the situation and get the word out that there are rescues around with animals and that pet shops aint as innocent as they make out. I wasnt aware there was guinea pig rescues before this site. It never crossed my mind. If i had seen an ad in the newspaper i would have thought twice.

 

[Layla - NSGPR]

Well why dont we all go to our local newpapers? the standard and advertiser? make people aware of what is going on. Explain the situation and get the word out that there are rescues around with animals and that pet shops aint as innocent as they make out. I wasnt aware there was guinea pig rescues before this site. It never crossed my mind. If i had seen an ad in the newspaper i would have thought twice.

This is really what I would like to do. I know that when I have advertised in the paper that I have many really good adopters contact me. If people stop buying animals from pet shops and the market isn't there for them, they may stop or reduce the amount of animals they do sell.

Any publicity is great, particularly in the current climate where rescues are suffering because of pet shops irresponsibility. As gorgeous and as much as I love the 10 babies which are at the rescue at the moment, and wouldn't wish them away now they are here, if pets at home has sold responsibly they wouldn't be here now and up for rescue, and 6 of them suffered very badly before they got to me.

 

[MemberX]

I'm up for any promoting, via facebook groups, emails etc etc. You know there isn't anything like this on Facebook except an Australian group.