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pneumonia heavy breathing please help

E

edwardsmoms

Junior Guinea Pig
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edward (7 year old guinea pig) had a runny nose was taken to vet who said if it kept happening she would give antibiotics. it stopped for a little and we didn’t get them. then he had issues with mild gi stasis. was taken to vet for this issue and was given subq fluids which helped the stasis. his back legs stopped working after and after massages and bicycles his legs worked again. then his nose started getting runny again and we got him on antibiotics that worked until he was off of them. he went to a follow up appt and sounded normal to her. on the way home maybe overheated in the car and was cooled down. next day got diarrhea and some gas. this lasted for five days. at some point we started noticing hewas drinking more water and holding his pee until he was put into his cage. we took him to the vet after finding blood in his pee. they took a sample and diagnosed a uti and possible pneumonia through an ultrasound. he was given antibiotics yesterday but his breathing seems really worrying and he’s biting his foot from arthritis pain.

at no point did he stop eating or drinking. we have been giving critical care every 3 hours

all stores are closed and we have an infant nebulizer with the mask but no saline. i can’t find what kind to put in there.

i saw something saying you can make your own but idk if i want to risk a diy

we did another steam shower but he’s breathing heavy

please help
 
edwardsmoms said:
edward (7 year old guinea pig) had a runny nose was taken to vet who said if it kept happening she would give antibiotics. it stopped for a little and we didn’t get them. then he had issues with mild gi stasis. was taken to vet for this issue and was given subq fluids which helped the stasis. his back legs stopped working after and after massages and bicycles his legs worked again. then his nose started getting runny again and we got him on antibiotics that worked until he was off of them. he went to a follow up appt and sounded normal to her. on the way home maybe overheated in the car and was cooled down. next day got diarrhea and some gas. this lasted for five days. at some point we started noticing hewas drinking more water and holding his pee until he was put into his cage. we took him to the vet after finding blood in his pee. they took a sample and diagnosed a uti and possible pneumonia through an ultrasound. he was given antibiotics yesterday but his breathing seems really worrying and he’s biting his foot from arthritis pain.

at no point did he stop eating or drinking. we have been giving critical care every 3 hours

all stores are closed and we have an infant nebulizer with the mask but no saline. i can’t find what kind to put in there.

i saw something saying you can make your own but idk if i want to risk a diy

we did another steam shower but he’s breathing heavy

please help
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Hi and welcome

HUGS

What a worry for you.

The recipe for making saline at home is mixing 1 teaspoon of salt into 1 pint/250g ml of boiled and cooled water.
First Aid: Immediate Care Measures and Non-medication Products

I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed. 7 years is a grand old age and a testimony to your good care but by that age piggies are sadly getting rather frail and their fast metabolism can turn against them, the same as in old humans. :(

All you can do is your best under the circumstances but please remember at all times that you are not superwoman and that nature is not something you can beat or suspend indefinitely - not that you are required to, even in your own mind and especially under great stress. As humans, we tend to turn our emotions against us, especially our anxiety.
Here is some very practical advice for yourself as to how you can navigate this very challenging time: Pet Owners Anxiety - Practical Tips For Sufferers and For Supporters

Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection

We are a friendly no-profit community on here which supports owners morally and with advice as much as we care about our piggies. Please bookmark this thread so you can pick it up easily and let us know how you get on or for any further questions and concerns. While we have members from all over the world, the forum itself is based in the UK and independent of social media.
 
we were able to make the saline and do the nebulizer for 10 minutes but it seemed to stress him out a little more. we noticed he’s having diarrhea again and his tummy is hard. he’s still eating hay and drinking water on his own. is there anything else i can do? once he’s less stressed ill do more critical care
 
edwardsmoms said:
he’s on metacam and gabapentin already
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If his tummy is hard to the touch, this is pointing towards more severe bloat/partial GI stasis, which blow up out of the blue or it can be caused by something pressing on the gut/the internal organs. Of course, I can only guess. :(
Digestive Disorders: Not Eating - Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement)

Diarrhea reflects the hay intake from a day or two before. Are you syringe feeding?
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support Levels
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

I am very sorry. What an anxious time for you.
 
yes i’m syringe feeding as much as he will let me which isn’t as much as he normally would. he’s been eating his normal amount of hay on his own too. should i try the nebulizer again for his breathing? how long should he be in there? we gave him so lettuce to make him less stressed the first time but he ate it so quickly and i don’t want to upset him more
 
we have him some lettuce*
and i don’t want to upset his stomach more*
sorry for any typos i’ve gotten no sleep
 
edwardsmoms said:
yes i’m syringe feeding as much as he will let me which isn’t as much as he normally would. he’s been eating his normal amount of hay on his own too. should i try the nebulizer again for his breathing? how long should he be in there? we gave him so lettuce to make him less stressed the first time but he ate it so quickly and i don’t want to upset him more
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I would not nebulise again as he wasn't better afterwards and you had to abort after 10 minutes.
Please try not to throw the kitchen sink for the throwing's sake at Edward just so you yourself are not feeling helpless. Whatever causes his breathing is not necessarily sitting in the lungs but could be pushing on them. Nebulising won't help in this instance.

Continue with the syringe feeding; little but often. I am very sorry that this is all happening in the night/very early morning for you.
 
edwardsmoms said:
we have him some lettuce*
and i don’t want to upset his stomach more*
sorry for any typos i’ve gotten no sleep
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Don't worry and no need to apologise. We all make typos.

Try to take a deep breath and try to do some relaxing/calming Mindfulness exercises for yourself so you can focus better. And try to make sure that next night you get at least 6 hours sleep, ideally in one go.
 
when she took the ultrasound she said there was a bit of fluid in his chest. the nebulizer i have stops itself after 10 minutes to cool down before restarting but i read something that said it should only be 10 mins and then something else that said 20-30 mins
 
edwardsmoms said:
when she took the ultrasound she said there was a bit of fluid in his chest. the nebulizer i have stops itself after 10 minutes to cool down before restarting but i read something that said it should only be 10 mins and then something else that said 20-30 mins
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Fluid on the chest is unrelated to the lungs - so nebulising won't do anything for it - but it has generally to do with heart insufficiency or pressure on the heart by an internal mass. Fluid can collect in the chest, the lungs or more rarely the body cavity, looking like medium range bloating; but never in the lung or chest at the same time.

Please try to get some sleep and look after yourself so you can look after your precious boy for as long as needed. It may be that he is quite simply coming to the end of his life. 7 years is the upper end of the average life span band, so you can be proud; but the realisation comes as a shock nevertheless.

Please take the time to read the links; you may find them helpful.
 
would the antibiotics not help this then? is it not pneumonia? his poops are a little more normal now
 
edwardsmoms said:
would the antibiotics not help this then? is it not pneumonia? his poops are a little more normal now
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Antibiotics won't work if this is not pneumonia. However, every vet will treat for potential pneumonia if there is the possibility of one because it is a killing disease. I hope that this explains the situation?

Please also be aware that antibiotics take up to 5 days to gradually build up to full efficiency and then gradually wane again until about 5 days after the end of the course. They are not a quick fix. That is the reason why you never should stop them mid-course unless there is a very bad reaction, or you will contribute to the growing problem of resistance, especially in with respiratory infections.

It is great that the poops are firming up; it means that your feeding support yesterday is starting to come through. that is great to know and a very good sign. :tu:
 
so the vet can’t do anything else for the fluid in his chest if pneumonia is not the problem?
 
edwardsmoms said:
so the vet can’t do anything else for the fluid in his chest if pneumonia is not the problem?
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If there is a build up of fluid in any part of the body (lungs or chest), normally diuretics would be prescribed. Diuretics are medications that make you pee more; we also get them for humans with heart issues as one of the first entry level meds.
 
how quickly do those work? we called the emergency vet but they said they don’t have enough medication. would the fluid need to be drained manually?
 
edwardsmoms said:
how quickly do those work? we called the emergency vet but they said they don’t have enough medication. would the fluid need to be drained manually?
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Please contact your regular vet tomorrow as to whether diuretics are advised in your case or not. Keep in mind that I have not seen your piggy, am not a vet and cannot advise.

Manual drainage is not advised in guinea pigs. Firstly, you would have to put a rather frail elderly piggy under anaesthetics and secondly, it won't solve the problem. It is a last ditch attempt by not very piggy savvy vets that usually doesn't come off but won't be cheap.

I would however strongly recommend not to do any more online research into all possible rabbit holes and worst case scenarios.

From what I understand is that your piggy is still rather borderline with whatever is going on.
 
his xray showed an enlarged heart. she said that there was no more fluid in the lungs at the time of the xray. i know that there a guinea pigs that have used ace inhibitors successfully. does anybody have any recommendations or things i can ask my vet about? and a cost estimate of the medications?
 
my 7 year old guinea pig just had an xray showing an enlarged heart after we’ve been trying to figure out why he’s breathing heavily. i don’t believe his vet actually diagnosed him with heart disease but said that it’s a possibility. he had previously had fluid in his lungs shown on an ultrasound. his xray didn’t show any fluid so she won’t start him on a diuretic. we’ve had four appts in the past 3 weeks with her for his breathing and she has yet to actually figure out what’s wrong. it’s extremely frustrating. after the xray she didn’t give any choices and sent us home. we researched ace inhibitors for guinea pigs and saw that they can be given but when we’ve called to talk with her about starting him on them, she’s refusing until we can get even more diagnostics. she wants a blood work panel that’s around $400 and an ultrasound for his heart around $600. we’ve already spent over $1k in the past three weeks. i understand why she wants the bloodwork for his kidneys but i really think he needs to be started on the ace inhibitors. the bloodwork wouldn’t even be back until monday and he would be able to start until they came back and she approved. i don’t know how I'm going to afford more diagnostics I'm so stressed out.
 
I'm sorry you're dealing with all this! As it stands, you've a couple of options, first would be a second opinion and state your case for heart meds based on the diagnostics already done, some vets are more lenient than others in what they will do without lots of diagnostics. Second option I can see is to meet with the first vet and discuss finances vs quality of life. A trial of heart meds for a couple of weeks will do no harm, my vet has done it in the past for mine, it turned out not to be a heart issue in the end but the diuretics did help with the fluid build up in her legs and chest. If you see an improvement during the trial, she can use her discretion to keep him on those medications. We've taken this approach to several of my pigs with various medications when they're too fragile for diagnostics or refusing to give enough of a blood sample to test.
A good vet will try to meet you half way.

Hopefully some of the others will have more advice to give you in the morning but members are mainly in the UK and it's just gone 3am here. Ive actually just put my own possible enlarged heart piggy to bed after her nebuliser treatment, so I can empathise with how stressed you must be, seeing them having a hard time breathing and not being able to do much to help really sucks.
 
thank you for your response! we’ve tried discussing with her about a trial of medication but she seems to be refusing without more diagnostics. we’ve been trying the nebulizer with saline too but we’re trying not to stress him out :/
 
Eriathwen said:
I'm sorry you're dealing with all this! As it stands, you've a couple of options, first would be a second opinion and state your case for heart meds based on the diagnostics already done, some vets are more lenient than others in what they will do without lots of diagnostics. Second option I can see is to meet with the first vet and discuss finances vs quality of life. A trial of heart meds for a couple of weeks will do no harm, my vet has done it in the past for mine, it turned out not to be a heart issue in the end but the diuretics did help with the fluid build up in her legs and chest. If you see an improvement during the trial, she can use her discretion to keep him on those medications. We've taken this approach to several of my pigs with various medications when they're too fragile for diagnostics or refusing to give enough of a blood sample to test.
A good vet will try to meet you half way.

Hopefully some of the others will have more advice to give you in the morning but members are mainly in the UK and it's just gone 3am here. Ive actually just put my own possible enlarged heart piggy to bed after her nebuliser treatment, so I can empathise with how stressed you must be, seeing them having a hard time breathing and not being able to do much to help really sucks.
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i’m not sure if you’ll have the answer to this but would you happen to know if he was prescribed an ace inhibitor if he would still be able to take metacam? i saw something saying they shouldn’t be taken together because of the kidneys. we haven’t been prescribed it yet but I'm just wondering if that’s something to worry about. would the ace inhibitor help his arthritis? hes also on gabapentin
 
Wiebke said:
Please contact your regular vet tomorrow as to whether diuretics are advised in your case or not. Keep in mind that I have not seen your piggy, am not a vet and cannot advise.

Manual drainage is not advised in guinea pigs. Firstly, you would have to put a rather frail elderly piggy under anaesthetics and secondly, it won't solve the problem. It is a last ditch attempt by not very piggy savvy vets that usually doesn't come off but won't be cheap.

I would however strongly recommend not to do any more online research into all possible rabbit holes and worst case scenarios.

From what I understand is that your piggy is still rather borderline with whatever is going on.
Click to expand...
would you happen to know what a blood panel would look like? i’m worried about putting him through that stress. also the above questions if you might have an answer?
 
edwardsmoms said:
would you happen to know what a blood panel would look like? i’m worried about putting him through that stress. also the above questions if you might have an answer?
Click to expand...

A blood panel is taking a blood sample from a guinea pig under sedation and running a number tests for various organ functions etc. in the lab. It is not cheap. And treatment options are going to be rather limited, whatever the results.

I do feel for you. It is very hard and tough for owners of small animals when we come to the limits of what veterinary care can provide and we have to really think things through and weigh up any benefits against the major downsides and how far we can financially afford and want to take a small person whose much faster metabolism is turning against them. Having our hearts and heads in different places while dreading the end and your bank statements is one of the worst places to be in. :(

I have written this guide here, which may also apply to your situation as to how far to take thing medically. I hope that it can help you. It is never easy when we love so much and deeply...
Operation, Terminal Care or Euthanasia? - Helpful Questions to Ask Ahead or in Hindsight
 
Wiebke said:
A blood panel is taking a blood sample from a guinea pig under sedation and running a number tests for various organ functions etc. in the lab. It is not cheap. And treatment options are going to be rather limited, whatever the results.

I do feel for you. It is very hard and tough for owners of small animals when we come to the limits of what veterinary care can provide and we have to really think things through and weigh up any benefits against the major downsides and how far we can financially afford and want to take a small person whose much faster metabolism is turning against them. Having our hearts and heads in different places while dreading the end and your bank statements is one of the worst places to be in. :(

I have written this guide here, which may also apply to your situation as to how far to take thing medically. I hope that it can help you. It is never easy when we love so much and deeply...
Operation, Terminal Care or Euthanasia? - Helpful Questions to Ask Ahead or in Hindsigh
Click to expand...
he has his appt today at 3:30pm pst. i can’t find anything on the forums about other guinea pigs getting a blood panel before being put on an ace inhibitor. what are the risks of not doing to blood panel? is it possible for him to be on metacam AND an ace inhibitor? is vetmedin safer for the kidneys?
 
edwardsmoms said:
he has his appt today at 3:30pm pst. i can’t find anything on the forums about other guinea pigs getting a blood panel before being put on an ace inhibitor. what are the risks of not doing to blood panel? is it possible for him to be on metacam AND an ace inhibitor? is vetmedin safer for the kidneys?
Click to expand...

Hi

You will have to ask your vet to please spell out the pros, the cons, potential risks and costs in a polite but frank talk before you make any decision. That is part of their job.
You are also always in within your rights to ask for more time before making any decisions so other more experienced forum members in these areas can help you.

Sorry for you, but I don't have the necessary professional medical background to be qualified to go through all your questions with you in the more specialist detail you want to know nor do we have the medical details of your case at hand.

We are not a medical forum (in the UK we are legally not allowed to); we specialise on owner support with their care at home.
 
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