pneumonia heavy breathing please help

[edwardsmoms]

Hi

You will have to ask your vet to please spell out the pros, the cons, potential risks and costs in a polite but frank talk before you make any decision. That is part of their job.
You are also always in within your rights to ask for more time before making any decisions so other more experienced forum members in these areas can help you.

Sorry for you, but I don't have the necessary professional medical background to be qualified to go through all your questions with you in the more specialist detail you want to know nor do we have the medical details of your case at hand.

We are not a medical forum (in the UK we are legally not allowed to); we specialise on owner support with their care at home.

i understand that but is there anyone with experience with this that could speak from their experience?

 

[Eriathwen]

i’m not sure if you’ll have the answer to this but would you happen to know if he was prescribed an ace inhibitor if he would still be able to take metacam? i saw something saying they shouldn’t be taken together because of the kidneys. we haven’t been prescribed it yet but I'm just wondering if that’s something to worry about. would the ace inhibitor help his arthritis? hes also on gabapentin

I would imagine it's situational, depending on each piggy, but I dont believe my Mabel was taken off metacam or gabapentin for the trial. She was on about 6 different meds and there was no mention of stopping any, although I do believe I staggered them at different times so she wasn't getting all of them at once, just to not overwhelm her kidneys.

 

[edwardsmoms]

I would imagine it's situational, depending on each piggy, but I dont believe my Mabel was taken off metacam or gabapentin for the trial. She was on about 6 different meds and there was no mention of stopping any, although I do believe I staggered them at different times so she wasn't getting all of them at once, just to not overwhelm her kidneys.

I'm sorry you're dealing with all this! As it stands, you've a couple of options, first would be a second opinion and state your case for heart meds based on the diagnostics already done, some vets are more lenient than others in what they will do without lots of diagnostics. Second option I can see is to meet with the first vet and discuss finances vs quality of life. A trial of heart meds for a couple of weeks will do no harm, my vet has done it in the past for mine, it turned out not to be a heart issue in the end but the diuretics did help with the fluid build up in her legs and chest. If you see an improvement during the trial, she can use her discretion to keep him on those medications. We've taken this approach to several of my pigs with various medications when they're too fragile for diagnostics or refusing to give enough of a blood sample to test.
A good vet will try to meet you half way.

Hopefully some of the others will have more advice to give you in the morning but members are mainly in the UK and it's just gone 3am here. Ive actually just put my own possible enlarged heart piggy to bed after her nebuliser treatment, so I can empathise with how stressed you must be, seeing them having a hard time breathing and not being able to do much to help really sucks.

if you don’t mind me asking, did you find out what the issue was? since it wasn’t a heart issue?

 

[Eriathwen]

if you don’t mind me asking, did you find out what the issue was? since it wasn’t a heart issue?

Yes it turned out she had a spinal deformity and inflammation where the nerves to a lot of her organs were, which affected how well they worked. Her intestines were especially affected which meant she couldnt absorb nutrients as well as she should have, which had a knock on effect to the rest of her body.

 

[Truffolo]

It is an awful dilemma, that he has reached the age of seven, an advanced age for a piggy, because of your excellent care. Relieving his discomfort is very difficult. Also knowing when to stop and when issues have become palliative. A good vet would be able to have such a conversation with you based on experience. But how many vets are there who have seen enough guinea pigs to have a sure feel of what is going on with them, especially as they age. Seven years is a long time for a guinea pig, but a short time for a human. If piggy could speak, he would have something to say as well. I hope that whatever choice you make you will be at peace with it

 

[LucyP]

Hi there, sorry to hear this.

I don't know if this helps at all and I am not giving any advice but happy to share our experiences:

Our 5-6 year old sow Dottie has heart disease, she had an enlarged heart detected on ultrasound, but they also found fluid and they could hear a galloping heart beat. She has never had bloods taken.

• She's on frusol to help reduce/keep the fluid away.
• She has vetmedin which helps the heart pump/contract stronger (I am sure it is more detailed than that, but that's the general idea the vets gave me!).
• these seemed to help her for several months.
• More recently, when some more fluid came back, we added a drug called Cardalis, which contains an ACE inhibitor called benazapril with some spironlactone, which is another diruetic).
• Dottie is under the care of the Royal Veterinary College exotics team and her drugs have all been approved by both the exotic vets and the RVC cardiologist who reviewed her notes- just stating that in case that helps you discuss things at all with your vet (probably not).

Because frusol draws out fluid and can make them 'dry', there is apparently a danger of the kidneys being affected over time, but in our case it's worth her having these meds as the vets are sure her heart disease (which is already progressive, as they all are) would likely be worse without the meds. They have said we should avoid metacam because of the kidney risk, but when we thought or suspect there is any pain involved, they have said we are ok to give her gabapentin instead.

It's also important to keep them hydrated on these heart meds, so we keep an eye on that and make sure she has watery veg (not too much) and obviously access to fresh water which they have anyway.

You can read more about Dottie's case here. Ignore the bit in the title about skin issues - that is not really an issue for her and not related. Her main health issue is her heart disease. It was a year ago when we first stared looking into this and we are learning all the time. Dottie’s breathing and skin issues She is considered a palliative care piggy now but she still seems happy.

I know some vets are reluctant to try meds out without a clear picture, which I understand, but some will.

All the best
Lucy

 

[Truffolo]

Thank you for sharing this excellent bio. The Royal Veterinary College Exotics Team are the best. I am glad they are leading the way in this ❤

 

[LucyP]

Thank you. And in turn it was other posts on this forum that helped me discuss all the options with my vets . As it happens, in Dottie's case they thought starting with frusol and vetmedin and keeping ACE in our back pocket for a bit later on would be helpful, which is what we ended up doing. Even our vets, experienced as they are, fully admit that diagnostics and treatment for heart piggies still has plenty of gaps re knowledge and evidence based and there are not always clear answers to grab on to like there might be in other conditions, or with other species. But they are happy to work with us and take the time to think through the different options, and answer all my questions, which I appreciate. It's so hard as an owner to know what to do, esp when you are reeling with a diagnosis that is not so great. I think it must be hard for vets too. I really feel for edwardsmoms as these things can be stressful, confusing, expensive and difficult to deal with.

 

[edwardsmoms]

Hi there, sorry to hear this.

I don't know if this helps at all and I am not giving any advice but happy to share our experiences:

Our 5-6 year old sow Dottie has heart disease, she had an enlarged heart detected on ultrasound, but they also found fluid and they could hear a galloping heart beat. She has never had bloods taken.

• She's on frusol to help reduce/keep the fluid away.
• She has vetmedin which helps the heart pump/contract stronger (I am sure it is more detailed than that, but that's the general idea the vets gave me!).
• these seemed to help her for several months.
• More recently, when some more fluid came back, we added a drug called Cardalis, which contains an ACE inhibitor called benazapril with some spironlactone, which is another diruetic).
• Dottie is under the care of the Royal Veterinary College exotics team and her drugs have all been approved by both the exotic vets and the RVC cardiologist who reviewed her notes- just stating that in case that helps you discuss things at all with your vet (probably not).

Because frusol draws out fluid and can make them 'dry', there is apparently a danger of the kidneys being affected over time, but in our case it's worth her having these meds as the vets are sure her heart disease (which is already progressive, as they all are) would likely be worse without the meds. They have said we should avoid metacam because of the kidney risk, but when we thought or suspect there is any pain involved, they have said we are ok to give her gabapentin instead.

It's also important to keep them hydrated on these heart meds, so we keep an eye on that and make sure she has watery veg (not too much) and obviously access to fresh water which they have anyway.

You can read more about Dottie's case here. Ignore the bit in the title about skin issues - that is not really an issue for her and not related. Her main health issue is her heart disease. It was a year ago when we first stared looking into this and we are learning all the time. Dottie’s breathing and skin issues She is considered a palliative care piggy now but she still seems happy.

I know some vets are reluctant to try meds out without a clear picture, which I understand, but some will.

All the best
Lucy

does vetmedin work the same way an ace inhibitor would? or what’s the difference?

 

[LucyP]

I believe that vetmedin strengthens the heart's contractions/ability to pump well, and ACE inhibitors work in a different way (reducing vasoconstriction?), but I couldn't describe that with any confidence I'm afraid. There may be others here who know more about it.

 

[edwardsmoms]

I believe that vetmedin strengthens the heart's contractions/ability to pump well, and ACE inhibitors work in a different way (reducing vasoconstriction?), but I couldn't describe that with any confidence I'm afraid. There may be others here who know more about it.

his urinalysis came back and showed no uti. they think it’s a possible kidney issue now. do you or anyone else have experience with treatment for both a kidney issue and a heart issue? i don’t want him sedated for the bloodwork but now i definitely think the vet won’t let him go without it

 

[LucyP]

I'm afraid not. I'm not sure what treatments are available for the kidney. Others may know more, esp the health experts. I hope he is ok.

 

[edwardsmoms]

his vet is saying she doesn’t know if it’s heart disease even after the xray and is saying he needs a heart ultrasound and bloodwork. shouldn’t it be known that is heart disease at this point?

I'm afraid not. I'm not sure what treatments are available for the kidney. Others may know more, esp the health experts. I hope he is ok.

 

[LucyP]

I think for us they suspected heart disease based on the fluid and the galloping heart beat they heard from the stethoscope. The ultrasound and enlarged heart (which they said is hard to be 100% clear about) I think helped confirmed it maybe.

Sorry not be more informative.

 

[edwardsmoms]

his vet appt just finished. we did another ultrasound and she did bloodwork. his blood panel results won’t be back until tuesday. she said his heart wasn’t contracting strong enough and wanted to get him started on an ace inhibitor. the ace inhibitor now won’t be ready until monday and i’m worried about the weekend. the emergency vets i’ve been to have not been great at all. i’m of course hoping he will be okay over the weekend. she’s worried about his kidneys because he peed and it was pretty clear. but we won’t know until the blood panel is back but i’m so worried about him. she’s also worried about his potassium. does anyone have experience with this?

 

[LucyP]

Ive not heard of clear pee being anything to worry about myself, I thought that just meant they were well hydrated? but others with more knowledge may have thoughts. I don’t know anything about potassium either, sorry.

Hopefully your boy will be ok over the weekend. Our pig presumably had an enlarged heart for quite some time before we picked up on it and started her on any meds and she was ok. If your boy is breathing ok and they haven’t found excessive fluid (which I would have thought the examination and ultrasound should have picked up) then personally I would take that as something to be positive about.

All the best and keep us posted.

 

[Piggies&buns]

In so sorry to hear of his issues.

Clear urine can mean kidney function is compromised. Low potassium can be caused by a problem with the kidneys.
I don’t have personal experience of this but do know that unfortunately treating kidney issues is not yet possible in guinea pigs.
There is a section (5) in the guide below

Hopefully the blood results will give a clearer indication of what is happening.
Otherwise I can only echo Wiebke’s advice to look after yourself so you can look after your lovely boy.

Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones