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Poorly Billy - Long Term Meds Question

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PAMELAKT

PAMELAKT

Adult Guinea Pig
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Hi everyone - sorry for not posting much recently!

Billy has had an overnight vet stay (John Chitty) as I noticed he wasn't eating well & was spitting food back out & acting like it was getting stuck in his mouth.

He has had an X-ray as his teeth look fine - the roots are a mess & he has an inflamed jaw.

So he is on longterm pain relief, 3 drops of metacam plus 0.5 of tramadol. He also has an antibiotic to take twice daily as he has an inner ear issue also.

He is to have this longterm (zinc the anti biotic at the moment) & John said we would play about with dosage as we go along.

I lost Rodney to bladder stones & he was on a cocktail of drugs & his little organs just couldn't take it - can Billy really take all this?! Does anyone else have pigs on these types of drugs longterm?

I totally trust the vet, I travelled a 60 odd mile round trip to take him there i just can't forget my bad experience last year with it all...

Thanks xx
 
Well I had to drop the drops into a plate & suck them up a syringe to get it in him & it was pretty much 0.5 of the 10ml Metacam for dogs.

I know he has said we will play with the dosage but just seems a lot.

He's a terrible terrible patient getting these meds in him is a nightmare!
 
That does seem high for a long term dose, is it once a day?
 
John chitty is a great vet. Long term metacam is ok but care should be taken with the the kidneys. Higher dose is fine for a start, and lowering it over time will be your best bet. But to be honest you need to weigh up the quality of life verses worrying about kidneys. In the end, if your piggie has very bad osteomyelitis (bone infection etc in the roots) then this is irreversible and also painful and to me it's more important to maintain good pain relief rather than worry about long term effects as the pain relief is the most important thing (I hope this makes some sort of sense). Tramadol is an option if your worried about kidney damage but this can often cause a bit of sedation as its a partial opioid.

Good luck in your decisions.

x
 
Hi, l would have a long talk with your vet , an ask him to look carfuly at the dose of Tramadol
Tramadol can effect the mood , memory and general awarness !
plus the kidines, all drugs have to eventualy be fillterd by the kidnies, and eventualy
thy become less efective

But please do not alter any meds without first talking to you vet first. !!
 
Abi_nurse said:
John chitty is a great vet. Long term metacam is ok but care should be taken with the the kidneys. Higher dose is fine for a start, and lowering it over time will be your best bet. But to be honest you need to weigh up the quality of life verses worrying about kidneys. In the end, if your piggie has very bad osteomyelitis (bone infection etc in the roots) then this is irreversible and also painful and to me it's more important to maintain good pain relief rather than worry about long term effects as the pain relief is the most important thing (I hope this makes some sort of sense). Tramadol is an option if your worried about kidney damage but this can often cause a bit of sedation as its a partial opioid.

Good luck in your decisions.

x
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He is being given tramadol & Metecam...
 
I did tell him I was concerned about the long term use & he said some animals are on these drugs for years and are fine - others are not.

I guess he knows what he's doing, I just know I didn't get very long with Rodney once he was on long term meds but then he was sicker I suppose...

It's so hard. I never want pets again!
 
Sorry was late last night let me correct the dosages!

Metacam comes out as 0.1ml
Tramadol is 0.5
Sulfatrim 0.4

All twice daily
 
I used Tramadol daily for quite sometime, around 1-3 months when Patrick was poorly he tolerated it very well it was the only pain relief that actually relieved his pain. To be honest we didn't need any additional painkiller's on top of it. We stopped the Tramadol as we where able to remove his pain but certainly would have continued long term if necessary.

Hope your little one continues to do well.
 
flintstones said:
I used Tramadol daily for quite sometime, around 1-3 months when Patrick was poorly he tolerated it very well it was the only pain relief that actually relieved his pain. To be honest we didn't need any additional painkiller's on top of it. We stopped the Tramadol as we where able to remove his pain but certainly would have continued long term if necessary.

Hope your little one continues to do well.
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Oh I was hoping you would say longer than that ;/ God it's so hard.. The vet seemed confident they can live this way but I'm not convinced after my last experience. I know I don't have much choice, I just don't want to feel like I am killing him ;(
 
i would trust john chitty - he's meant to be an amazing vet. long term metacam is very very unlikely to cause any damage to kidneys, even adequate doses and even long term. it has to be used more cautiously in patients with kidney problems but even then it's still unlikely to cause any problems.

sometimes you can't do nothing because they'll be uncomfortable and ill and there is no point thinking of the future if they are too ill to even get there because their current issues are not effectively managed. i'd take it a stage at a time. alot of good vets start with higher doses and taper downwards once things are under control. sometimes this isn't possible, but if they have a condition that is bad enough that these are needed, then it's likely it would make them ill or even cause their passing long before the potential for any long term medication effects would anyway.

it's always a worry but you can only treat what is going on currently and manage from there :hug:
 
biscandmatt said:
i would trust john chitty - he's meant to be an amazing vet. long term metacam is very very unlikely to cause any damage to kidneys, even adequate doses and even long term. it has to be used more cautiously in patients with kidney problems but even then it's still unlikely to cause any problems.

sometimes you can't do nothing because they'll be uncomfortable and ill and there is no point thinking of the future if they are too ill to even get there because their current issues are not effectively managed. i'd take it a stage at a time. alot of good vets start with higher doses and taper downwards once things are under control. sometimes this isn't possible, but if they have a condition that is bad enough that these are needed, then it's likely it would make them ill or even cause their passing long before the potential for any long term medication effects would anyway.

it's always a worry but you can only treat what is going on currently and manage from there :hug:
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Thank you that was so nicely worded. I do trust him, I think I am traumatised from my experience with my last little man who's organs just seemed to pack in. He is only on very small doses... I'll just have to see how he goes. Can't believe this has suddenly happened!
 
PAMELAKT said:
Thank you that was so nicely worded. I do trust him, I think I am traumatised from my experience with my last little man who's organs just seemed to pack in. He is only on very small doses... I'll just have to see how he goes. Can't believe this has suddenly happened!
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oh really - my posts are usually written strangely and make little sense :))

it's only natural to worry when things have happened before. i'm the same. and i also remember feeling this exact same way when both my rabbits had to go onto long term metacam. one is still on it now (since 2009) and has recently got another (very painful) condition which means the dose is now sky-high. it is hard not to worry but he just can't cope on less so has to have it. i think he will end up on even more pain meds as we go along aswell as it is a degenerative condition unfortunately. i try to take each day as it comes but it is very hard to do that sometimes.

you have a great vet who comes very highly recommended so you're doing all you can. x
 
biscandmatt said:
oh really - my posts are usually written strangely and make little sense :))

it's only natural to worry when things have happened before. i'm the same. and i also remember feeling this exact same way when both my rabbits had to go onto long term metacam. one is still on it now (since 2009) and has recently got another (very painful) condition which means the dose is now sky-high. it is hard not to worry but he just can't cope on less so has to have it. i think he will end up on even more pain meds as we go along aswell as it is a degenerative condition unfortunately. i try to take each day as it comes but it is very hard to do that sometimes.

you have a great vet who comes very highly recommended so you're doing all you can. x
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I am a huge fan of the vet & took him there especially to get the best opinion - I shouldn't even question it. I just can't stop thinking about my other little man. I never want small animals again it's just a nightmare!

Hope your bunny continues to be pain free x
 
PAMELAKT said:
I am a huge fan of the vet & took him there especially to get the best opinion - I shouldn't even question it. I just can't stop thinking about my other little man. I never want small animals again it's just a nightmare!

Hope your bunny continues to be pain free x
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thank you. he's on his own currently since his long term bonded partner passed away, and we have been advised against bonding him now because of the stress and his health issues (this wasn't a decision made lightly by us and the vets as obviously they should ideally have a companion). may or not be the case for good (he's 9.5 years old now) but if he does stay single i'll be taking a break from rabbits for a while. as much as i love them, the anxiety over them when they are ill is just overwhelming sometimes. it's strange because they are my only source of happiness and yet take my anxiety through the roof because i am constantly worrying about them.

best of luck with your little one x
 
One of my pigs, Sundae, has been on chronic antibiotics for much of her life due to bladder stones and chronic bladder infections. She has also been on pain meds, though not constantly. We only use them during active infections when her behavior is affected and she seems subdued or in pain. But she is on a suppressive dose of antibiotics daily for life to keep the bacterial load in her bladder as low as possible. She also deal with a severe facial abscess and was on two antibiotics for months because of that. It has to be hard on her kidneys. That said, not medicating her is not an option, as she will get an infection and be in pain, and her quality of life has to be paramount. She first started meds around age 2.5 years and is now 5.5 years, with good quality of life. She has far exceeded my expectations (and the expectations of the vet.) Even if she passed from kidney failure due to the meds tomorrow, it would have been the right choice for her. Sadly, there's sometimes no great option. It's either manage a condition and deal with potential side effects down the road or else deal with the consequences of the condition a lot sooner. Lots of luck... I know how stressful it is. I go through periods of time where I feel like I am going through 'small animal burnout' because they simply don't live as long as larger pets so there are times when it feels like continuous loss. :(
 
It is all about quality of life. Cookie is currently on high dose of Metacam 0.2ml twice a day for palliative care, yes eventually in the end in will damage her kidneys but she has cancer and will pass to the bridge before this happens. She has in actual fact been on Metacam for over a year now at 0.1ml a day for jaw arthritis and a bone spur and her kidneys are still working fine.

John Chitty has a very good reputation as a Cavy Savy vet. We have to trust the veterinary experts they are the ones who have been through years of training.

I think you need to try not to think to far into the future just concentrate on getting your little one pain free and take one day at a time. Massive massive hugs to you both and love Billy x
 
Freela said:
One of my pigs, Sundae, has been on chronic antibiotics for much of her life due to bladder stones and chronic bladder infections. She has also been on pain meds, though not constantly. We only use them during active infections when her behavior is affected and she seems subdued or in pain. But she is on a suppressive dose of antibiotics daily for life to keep the bacterial load in her bladder as low as possible. She also deal with a severe facial abscess and was on two antibiotics for months because of that. It has to be hard on her kidneys. That said, not medicating her is not an option, as she will get an infection and be in pain, and her quality of life has to be paramount. She first started meds around age 2.5 years and is now 5.5 years, with good quality of life. She has far exceeded my expectations (and the expectations of the vet.) Even if she passed from kidney failure due to the meds tomorrow, it would have been the right choice for her. Sadly, there's sometimes no great option. It's either manage a condition and deal with potential side effects down the road or else deal with the consequences of the condition a lot sooner. Lots of luck... I know how stressful it is. I go through periods of time where I feel like I am going through 'small animal burnout' because they simply don't live as long as larger pets so there are times when it feels like continuous loss. :(
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Oh I know I can't do it anymore, Billy is my last pig I just couldn't face getting another after i lost Rodney last year. Thankfully Billy has done very well on his own he's such a dominant strong character he's remained quite chipper - but I can't do it. It's more heartbreaking the older I get! I don't have an option either as his jaw is giving him pain so he can't eat, so I will just have to ride it out.... It is reassuring to hear other small animals are on meds for life & arent having too many issues. Thanks :) xx
 
MintyAndGarry (TEAS) said:
I'm not sure I can respond to this thread without being slanderous, but an exotics vet is not always a knowledgeable vet.

Despite all the dental and associated issues we deal with at TEAS, never have we had to result in using Tramadol to manage pain.
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How would you manage messy roots & inflamed jaw?
 
Freela said:
One of my pigs, Sundae, has been on chronic antibiotics for much of her life due to bladder stones and chronic bladder infections. She has also been on pain meds, though not constantly. We only use them during active infections when her behavior is affected and she seems subdued or in pain. But she is on a suppressive dose of antibiotics daily for life to keep the bacterial load in her bladder as low as possible. She also deal with a severe facial abscess and was on two antibiotics for months because of that. It has to be hard on her kidneys. That said, not medicating her is not an option, as she will get an infection and be in pain, and her quality of life has to be paramount. She first started meds around age 2.5 years and is now 5.5 years, with good quality of life. She has far exceeded my expectations (and the expectations of the vet.) Even if she passed from kidney failure due to the meds tomorrow, it would have been the right choice for her. Sadly, there's sometimes no great option. It's either manage a condition and deal with potential side effects down the road or else deal with the consequences of the condition a lot sooner. Lots of luck... I know how stressful it is. I go through periods of time where I feel like I am going through 'small animal burnout' because they simply don't live as long as larger pets so there are times when it feels like continuous loss. :(
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Wow thank you - is nice to know others are in a similar position. I know he can't live forever but I still feel 4 is too young! Sundae has done ever so well!
 
sport_billy said:
It is all about quality of life. Cookie is currently on high dose of Metacam 0.2ml twice a day for palliative care, yes eventually in the end in will damage her kidneys but she has cancer and will pass to the bridge before this happens. She has in actual fact been on Metacam for over a year now at 0.1ml a day for jaw arthritis and a bone spur and her kidneys are still working fine.

John Chitty has a very good reputation as a Cavy Savy vet. We have to trust the veterinary experts they are the ones who have been through years of training.

I think you need to try not to think to far into the future just concentrate on getting your little one pain free and take one day at a time. Massive massive hugs to you both and love Billy x
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That's really handy to know thank you - he didn't use the word arthritis but said the joints of his jaw were inflamed. Have you any tips for feeding with jaw issues?
 
I guess it depends on the jaw issues, we cut all cookies food into strips and had to tear the lettuce up small for here. She has had to eat separate to all the girls for a year now due to how slow she eats
 
Aww bless him. Always such a photogenic lad
 
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