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Popcorn bby

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I'm going to say this straight off the bat, I suck at describing what's going on. This is going to be a long one since everything kind of needs a backstory first. But I've been seeing my guinea pig do this for a few days now and after what happened today, I knew I needed to trust myself even though these symptoms are so difficult and rare to describe. Okay, let me start. My guinea pig, to be short let me call her P, started having seizures over two months ago, I came home one night and she had them a lot, still acting fine and everything. I noticed they were both scratching a lot, so I prayed it was mites. It was late at night, so the next day I took her to my grandma's house (bringing a portable cage) so that as soon as my mom came back from work (she goes to my grandma's house first) we could immediately leave to the vet. The thing is, the next day, she didn't have any seizures despite not undergoing any mite treatment. She hasn't had seizures ever since, luckily. But it's something that's confused me, since even the top vets that specialize in exotics, especially guinea pigs, still had no idea what it could've been. At the same time, they both, especially P, were walking strained, tense and were emitting strange movements. To try put it into perspective, the bit of strained movement guinea pigs do when rumblestrutting kind of gives an idea of how they were moving. So like I said, we noticed tons of scratching so we had started revolution, and November 2nd was their third dose. The itching has seemed to calm last month, I noticed a bit this month but definitely not enough for me to assume out of the ordinary. I'd say about four-five days ago, I noticed P walked strangely every once in a while. (Here comes the bad explanation) We layer our fleece on top of each other, so there's usually a part of the cage where there's like a small hill because some areas are more layered then others. Their seemed to be a bit of this at the way front of the cage, and it was as if P's right legs were stepping into the dip, while the rest of her body was on the higher part. She was walking at the front when she did this, so I very much assumed that the only reason for this strange walking was the unleveled fleece. This same day though, I noticed a bit of the strange strained/tense movements. Barely any though, so I ignored it. Ever since though, everyday there seems to be a bit more of these strange movements, a bit more scratching too. One notable thing I've seen her do twice is she's standing, and her back left leg seems to kind of bend or give out? This sends and awkward position where either that side of her butt just lays on the floor for a few seconds before going back to normal, or the other time it seemed more like her but just twisted onto its side, in which I though she was going to have a seizure but thankfully didn't. This has only happened twice. I'm just so stressed. Something happened today though, less than an hour ago actually that made me realize I had to write this. So P popcorned, and when she came down, she landed on her side (once again, I thought she was going to have a seizure but she got up in less than a second). This might have an explanation, because she hit herself on her wood hidey while she jumped up, and there is the weird leveling on the cage so half of her body landed on the high part and her front part landed ont he part that was a tad bit lower. But after this, I couldn't just keep trying to make it make sense. My mom is in Chicago right now, and she isn't coming back for four days/five nights, and I'm here left with my grandma who doesn't speak English, doesn't know anything about guinea pigs and it/vets, and doesn't have any money for the vets. Don't know if this is notable but, she's been dealing with a gas episode that was reoccurring for a solid month at least, SO vegetable intake has been minimal, although we've been increasing vegetables daily by a little bit for about a week now. Don't know if that could help. I pray that this is caused by the mites, even though wouldn't the revolution have stopped the mites already? Please tell me if it is possible for the revolution to not be working or something. I pray it isn't but, could this be neurological issues? God bless please help. I'll post some video links below, although these videos do not showcase a lot of what I have been seeing these past days
 

Popcorn bby

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Once again, I can not stress that these do NOT fully capture whatsoever what I have been seeing these past days. These are the closest things I could get to the strange movements and actions. I personally believe the third link showcases most accurately out of all of these, but you would have to pay really close attention. I really hope this is the mites. Please someone reply soon. Also so sorry for the horrible quality, it might be hard to see.

(I recommend pausing it and looking at it slowly)

(this one could obviously be an itch, but the head movement is something that I've been seeing)

(I beg you to please watch this one very carefully, especially the way she walks and just moves in general. This one showcases lots of itching)

I love my baby, I pray this is mites and nothing else! As I have a stated, every single movement that I have been seeing is the exact same as when they started having mites with no treatment.
 

Popcorn bby

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Once again, I can not stress that these do NOT fully capture whatsoever what I have been seeing these past days. These are the closest things I could get to the strange movements and actions. I personally believe the third link showcases most accurately out of all of these, but you would have to pay really close attention. I really hope this is the mites. Please someone reply soon. Also so sorry for the horrible quality, it might be hard to see.

(I recommend pausing it and looking at it slowly)

(this one could obviously be an itch, but the head movement is something that I've been seeing)

(I beg you to please watch this one very carefully, especially the way she walks and just moves in general. This one showcases lots of itching)

I love my baby, I pray this is mites and nothing else! As I have a stated, every single movement that I have been seeing is the exact same as when they started having mites with no treatment.
Update: just a few minutes ago she got some critical care on her paws so she didn't the type of shake where guinea pigs stand on their back legs and shake in the air. I noticed she was quite hesitant to do it. She did it but almost immediately feel to the ground. She landed on her side. That's something I didn't see when she had the mites. This might not mean anything, but she also had to keep one front leg down when giving herself a piggie wash.
 

Popcorn bby

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That movement looks very normal to me, my pigs do the same
I figured, the videos aren't much help though. She did manage to do that type of shake again (the one where she only stands on her hind legs) without falling this time. That's restored tons of hope.
 

Siikibam

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The shaking is a way to clean themselves, and so is what she does in the second video.

I don’t see anything odd in the way she is walking, and the first video just looks like he was chased off by the other piggy so is running away.

Did the vet prescribe the medicine or are you home treating? We don’t recommend the latter, so if you are treating off your own back then I’d recommend you go to a vetfor a general check. But also mention the scratching. Make sure the vet is cavy savvy as well.
 

Popcorn bby

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The shaking is a way to clean themselves, and so is what she does in the second video.

I don’t see anything odd in the way she is walking, and the first video just looks like he was chased off by the other piggy so is running away.

Did the vet prescribe the medicine or are you home treating? We don’t recommend the latter, so if you are treating off your own back then I’d recommend you go to a vetfor a general check. But also mention the scratching. Make sure the vet is cavy savvy as well.
Well for the mites we are getting the revolution (dosed from the vets as well) from the vet, but doing the actual applying of revolution at home once a month (the vet showed us to just apply it between their shoulder blades). I have talked to my mom over the phone about a vet visit, but like I said because she is in Chicago right now and my grandma can not and would not take me for many reasons, we are still trying to figure out when we could take her, since my mom isn't coming back for another five nights.
 

Popcorn bby

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PLEASE HELP

Now shes just falling when shes not doing anything. She was just standing right now and she feel on her side, not a seizure.
 

Siikibam

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Are you able to video it? Is there another adult who would be able to take you? Is the vet well versed on guinea pigs? And what type of mites exactly did they say your piggies have?

I think you really do need to get her to a vet somehow.

I don’t know if revolution is the same as ivermectin, but that’s what is prescribed here for mites. Also, a month seems a long time between applications. Have a read of the thread I’ve linked before for more details on mites.
What to check and look out for in new guinea pigs (vet checks, sexing, parasites&illness)
 

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Are you able to video it? Is there another adult who would be able to take you? Is the vet well versed on guinea pigs? And what type of mites exactly did they say your piggies have?

I think you really do need to get her to a vet somehow.

I don’t know if revolution is the same as ivermectin, but that’s what is prescribed here for mites. Also, a month seems a long time between applications. Have a read of the thread I’ve linked before for more details on mites.
What to check and look out for in new guinea pigs (vet checks, sexing, parasites&illness)

Hi!

I can't see any unusual behaviour or specifically any fitting (which is the one connected with severe mange mites) in your videos.
When was the last time your piggies have had revolution?

Revolution is a selamectin and not ivermectin based US brand; the corresponding UK brand is called stronghold. It can be used against mange mites although ivermectin is generally considered more effective.

Can you please specify whether your vet has diagnosed mange mites (trixacarus caviae, which lay their eggs into the painfully inflamed skin and which can kill if untreated or undertreated) or hay/fur mites (chirodiscoides caviae, which fix their egg cases to the hairs and which live off skin debris, especially in the bum area)?

More information on mites and mites treatment:
What to check and look out for in new guinea pigs (vet checks, sexing, parasites&illness) (contains a list of guinea pig specific parasites and their treatment).
Guinea Lynx :: Mange Mites
 

Siikibam

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Thank you for popping in @Wiebke
I’m wondering whether some of what she saw as fitting is popcorning. If it’s fitting, they’d be twitching and rolling/unable to stand correct?
 

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Thank you for popping in @Wiebke
I’m wondering whether some of what she saw as fitting is popcorning. If it’s fitting, they’d be twitching and rolling/unable to stand correct?

They'd twitching uncontrollably with mange mites.

Here is a thread with popcorning videos, but a mini-popcorn can just be a hint of a jump/abrupt change of direction. Caspar's video would come closest to that.
'Popcorning' and 'zooming' - joy and exuberance (videos)
 

Piggies&buns

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I have just seen this and I have to agree with the others, I cannot see anything concerning in the way she is walking or moving. There is a bit of scratching but that looks like a normal way to scratch.
I think if it is something which isn’t happening all of the time, then you are going to want to try to video it for the vet to see as well as otherwise she may not display the behaviour you see when she is at the vet. If you can capture more video and show it to us between now and when you can get to the vet then that would be helpful. As it stands though, and you say the third video shows it best, but even in the third video I cannot see anything which looks concerning.
 

Popcorn bby

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Are you able to video it? Is there another adult who would be able to take you? Is the vet well versed on guinea pigs? And what type of mites exactly did they say your piggies have?

I think you really do need to get her to a vet somehow.

I don’t know if revolution is the same as ivermectin, but that’s what is prescribed here for mites. Also, a month seems a long time between applications. Have a read of the thread I’ve linked before for more details on mites.
What to check and look out for in new guinea pigs (vet checks, sexing, parasites&illness)
Unfortunately, I'm never able to get it on camera.
Hi!

I can't see any unusual behaviour or specifically any fitting (which is the one connected with severe mange mites) in your videos.
When was the last time your piggies have had revolution?

Revolution is a selamectin and not ivermectin based US brand; the corresponding UK brand is called stronghold. It can be used against mange mites although ivermectin is generally considered more effective.

Can you please specify whether your vet has diagnosed mange mites (trixacarus caviae, which lay their eggs into the painfully inflamed skin and which can kill if untreated or undertreated) or hay/fur mites (chirodiscoides caviae, which fix their egg cases to the hairs and which live off skin debris, especially in the bum area)?

More information on mites and mites treatment:
What to check and look out for in new guinea pigs (vet checks, sexing, parasites&illness) (contains a list of guinea pig specific parasites and their treatment).
Guinea Lynx :: Mange Mites
They had revolution 24 days ago, we get it every month on the second and last dose was their third I believe. I am seeing a large amount of scratching, although not yet to the extent of scratching they were at with the definite mites, but seeing that revolution is a less strong treatment for mites, I am reminded that I did decrease the dose of revolution by a tiny bit (I can not remember what form of measurement was, i think 30cc but they filled the syringe to the top, that little space above the last number marked, so i lowered it maybe 5cc to get to the 30 mark) when I applied the revolution onto her. I just got back home a good ten minutes ago, my lil babe is doing great, out of context this seems weird to say, but I am so happy to see she us scratching herself quite often, hopefully she and her sister start scratching a bit more. And yes, I can confirm that those little fits are not popcorning. She was popcorning in one, its the landings that are alarming. Although I did not fully watch the little fall she did while standing, she could have been twitching but since I only saw the end of it, I can not confirm. For the other ones though, where she landed on her side instead of her feet, there was no twitching. Once again, no vets solidely told us what she had was a certain type of mites, but the ones we went to first (they couldn't do anything except start the revolution, so they referred us to an exotics vet that did not specify a type of mites) said something about it being probably being mange mites, assuming because of the seizures. We were going to go to the specialists again tomorrow, since we were sure the other ones would just refer us to them again, but they are completely booked because they are closing extra early for thanksgiving the day after. So we are taking them to the vet (the ones that aren't specialists) tomorrow just to hear their input, and to confirm if they still have to go to the exotics vet on Friday, and if she does, then to confirm she can wait until Friday.
 

Popcorn bby

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I have just seen this and I have to agree with the others, I cannot see anything concerning in the way she is walking or moving. There is a bit of scratching but that looks like a normal way to scratch.
I think if it is something which isn’t happening all of the time, then you are going to want to try to video it for the vet to see as well as otherwise she may not display the behaviour you see when she is at the vet. If you can capture more video and show it to us between now and when you can get to the vet then that would be helpful. As it stands though, and you say the third video shows it best, but even in the third video I cannot see anything which looks concerning.
It is undeniably frustrating to not be able to describe it, even more so that combined with having no visual proof other than myself seeing it firsthand. But at the same time, I am incredibly grateful that she is not doing it so often to the point that it is not difficult to catch a video of it. She seems much happier now, and quite itchy as well. Her happiness is always the best, and in this situation the scratching really is also most positive!
 

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Update: I've realized a few things and a few things have happened. First, she seemingly popcorned but ran straight into her cage walk, slamming against it. She's moving much smoother and hasn't fallen on we side at all, but unfortunately there is less scratching now, which has got me nervous along with another thing I've realized. Like I've stated, when they had gotten the mites, the seizures had stopped before we even got mite treatment started. So, seeing the symptoms are definitely calming/stopping without any treatment, I'm actually getting more worried. What if this is a reoccurring thing?
 

Piggies&buns

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Sorry can I just check - I may have missed something - but why do you say ‘unfortunately the scratching is less’? If they have mites and the scratching eases then it means the treatment is working and they are getting better from the mites.
Having mange mites can cause seizures. So it goes that once the mites are cured the seizures should ease off. Which means the problem goes away.
It’s only once the mites are treated and if you still see the strange movements that there may be another problem.

In your original post you say you found her having a seizure one night, she had them a lot but still seemed fine. Can you explain what you actually saw when she had this seizure?
 

Siikibam

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I was going to say that less scratching is good, not bad.
Can I ask why you changed the dosage of revolution? You should have given the full dose as told by the vet. And I would book to see the knowledgable vet rather than the general one.

@Piggies&buns I'm not sure that the piggy is having a seizure. From the way she describes it it doesn’t sound like it to me anyway. I think it’s quite distinct.

@Popcorn bby sometimes when they popcorn they can land in a way that looks awkward to you. I think some piggies have been known to fall over when they popcorn. Have a look at the link below.
'Popcorning' and 'zooming' - joy and exuberance (videos)
 

Piggies&buns

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I was going to say that less scratching is good, not bad.
Can I ask why you changed the dosage of revolution? You should have given the full dose as told by the vet. And I would book to see the knowledgable vet rather than the general one.

@Piggies&buns I'm not sure that the piggy is having a seizure. From the way she describes it it doesn’t sound like it to me anyway. I think it’s quite distinct.

@Popcorn bby sometimes when they popcorn they can land in a way that looks awkward to you. I think some piggies have been known to fall over when they popcorn. Have a look at the link below.
'Popcorning' and 'zooming' - joy and exuberance (videos)


Yes, that is what I was wondering that it wasn’t in fact a seizure. From the information on this thread it doesn’t sound like seizures to me either.

I’ve certainly seen mine misjudge their positioning when popcorning and bang into something when landing.

@Popcorn bby - you say that she was standing still and then just fell on her side. This also can be explained as being perfectly normal. They do suddenly just flop onto their side as a method of laying down. Mostly they do it when they are comfortable in their environment and feel safe enough to just flop out like that.
 
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