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Probiotics Help for Ver Poorly Pig

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cavycouture

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My Tesla has been diagnosed, and is being treated with Baytril, for a very long term heart illness (suspected strep infection, huge heart valves, bits falling off and getting in his lungs). He has had one AB course before, I tried him on bio-lapis, but he hated it. He wouldnt even eat his veggies if I sprinkled it on them.
He's also on metacam long term.

Can anyone name me a good probiotic for him? It's for long term use, and needs to be somewhat palatble.

I've seen pro-fibre (for rabbits) - is this suitable, and has anyones' pigs actually eaten it?

Thanks from Tesla :) He is very upset to have a shaved tummy!
 
I use protexin which has always worked well for my piggies. You can get it from VetUK. I've used it when my piggies have been on antibiotics in the past as well as to treat diarrhea if thats of any help x
 
i used Avipro Plus when my Pepper was ill and he couldnt get enough of it!! Hope your piggy feeling better soon x
 
He actuall enjpyed the Avipro? Do you know what the flavor is? Tesla is more tolerant of baytril than he is the bio-lapis if that's any indication. He does like his metacam though, it's honey flavored!

I dont know if he's going to get healthy again, but he should be feeling better soon. I just hope the infection has caused too much permanent heart damage.
 
aww poor thing. I'm not sure about Avipro, i think it smells really malty a bit like......ermmmm hmmmm Horlicks maybe?

God....Metacam....honey....of course, i knew i recognised the smell but just couldnt get it lol cheers!

As long as he is comfortable its something isnt it :)
 
I'll order some and try that!
Just a question though, I'm sure I read somewhere that it contains strep bacteria - is this safe, being as it's what's in his heart? Or is it not the same?
 
cavycouture said:
My Tesla has been diagnosed, and is being treated with Baytril, for a very long term heart illness (suspected strep infection, huge heart valves, bits falling off and getting in his lungs). He has had one AB course before, I tried him on bio-lapis, but he hated it. He wouldnt even eat his veggies if I sprinkled it on them.
He's also on metacam long term.


Can anyone name me a good probiotic for him? It's for long term use, and needs to be somewhat palatble.

I've seen pro-fibre (for rabbits) - is this suitable, and has anyones' pigs actually eaten it?

Thanks from Tesla :) He is very upset to have a shaved tummy!
Click to expand...

I recently brought the one from pets at home, called pro c, i would mix quarter of a scoop with 50 mls of water and syringe feed it to her as she did not really drink much water, this one was fine. x
 
Did you get 50ml into your pig at one time? That's quite an achievement lol.
I dismissed the Pro C as mainly being a vit c supplement, and it being by Pets At Home, also didnt inspire me with confidence. Is that bad?
 
cavycouture said:
Did you get 50ml into your pig at one time? That's quite an achievement lol.
I dismissed the Pro C as mainly being a vit c supplement, and it being by Pets At Home, also didnt inspire me with confidence. Is that bad?
Click to expand...


i was recommended it from someone on here and i needed it quick so pets at home was just around the corner.
I mixed the 50ml up in the morning and syringed it as and when throughout the day, didnt use it all in a day though, threw away what was left and did new the next day.
xx
 
cavycouture said:
I'll order some and try that!
Just a question though, I'm sure I read somewhere that it contains strep bacteria - is this safe, being as it's what's in his heart? Or is it not the same?
Click to expand...

I really dont know the answer to that sorry, you need someone in the know! Someone will come along and let you know soon, so dont worry :)
 
Thanks so much. This is my first sick piggy, and of course it had to be a huge problem :(
That makes sense, thanks Carly.
I'm thankfull we finally have a good exotics vet (the last exotics vet I went to broke my gerbil's leg).

I'll grab some bio-lapis at the vet tomorrow and order the avipro tonight. If I cant use it, I ca always sell it anyway.
 
I use avipro plus, my cavy vet recomends it and my piggie drank his water with it in the bottle almost more than normal so it is palatable i think. :)
 
Can they overdose on it? Tesla drinks huge amounts of water, it would be much easier to put it in the bottle if he'll drink it willingly.
 
i put it in the water bottle too, but I'm not sure if they can overdose, i dont think so, just not sure
 
Thanks very much everyone, have just ordered the avipro, and am picking up the Baytril tomorrow.
Bless his socks, I hope we see some improvement soon.
 
There are a few options for probiotics - Bio Lapis, Avipro Plus, Fibreplex, Pro C Probiotic....some are mentioned on this thread:
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=46964&highlight=probiotics

Alternatively, a probiotic from a health food shop - acidophilus capsules - are suitable. Or there's always the 'poop soup' one, poop from a healthy pig crushed in a few ml of water and syringed to the poorly pig; unpleasant as it may seem, it's free and widely available. :))

How did the vet ascertain what is happening with her heart? Is anything being done to help with the heart problem itself or just treating the strep infection?
 
I've read of poop soup, but wasnt sure what it was! I think my other boy doesnt drink enough water (some of his poops tend to be a little crumbly if pressed) - would this still be ok?

The vet did an ultrasound, and the valves were showing up way too big compared to the heart. She said we must first get rid of the infection, and then see how much permenant damage has been done before anything else.
 
Your other boys poops should be ok. :)

Sorry for another question - how did the vet determine it was a strep infection?
 
She said it was something she had diagnosed before (although mainly in already dead pigs), and it was usually strep. The pigs in question apparently usually contracted the infection, which was left untreated, at a very young age, possibly from the umbilical chord. And then untreated, the infection became serious, and got into the blood stream, and hence the heart.
 
Hi sorry to hear of your poorly piggy!

I have used Pro-C in the water and all mine drink the water with it in there so it's good in a pinch if you can't wait for the postman to come.

Biolapis too, seems not to be hated

Hope Tesla is better soon honey, what a worry.

x
 
How is Tesla this morning?

I believe further advice has been passed on to you, there is little more I can add - but please do keep us updated.
 
Hey there

Tesla is doing fine, responding really well to the baytril (well, his poops are all fine, that's the most I could hope for). Hopefully the probiotic will turn up today, otherwise I will have to poop soup lol.
I am going to seek a second opinion, as it has been suggested he should also be on heart meds too, which makes sense to me.
I will update when there is news :)
 
Glad to hear that you're seeking a second opinion and exploring all options. Fingers crossed for the little guy x
 
cavycouture said:
I'll order some and try that!
Just a question though, I'm sure I read somewhere that it contains strep bacteria - is this safe, being as it's what's in his heart? Or is it not the same?
Click to expand...


Yes it is a different strep. It's normally strep pneumoniae that infects the heart, often following respiratory infection. However strep zooepidermicus is also mentioned by Harkness and Wagner as being implicated in respiratory conditions so maybe that too can infect the heart.

AVIPRO contains:
- Two species of Lactobacillus with Streptococcus faecium which live for a short time in the gut, helping to stabilise the pH.
- Yeasts to provide a source of amino acids and vitamins.
- Lipase (often low in young birds), amylase, protease and cellulase.
- Electrolytes to aid in maintaining adequate levels in birds with diarrhoea which lose electrolytes

Protexin Bilapis or fibreplex contain just the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisae

For info on heart meds (I printed it out and took it to my vet)

http://www.guinealynx.info/heart.html


Also you may want to discuss with the vet whether baytril is the best antibioitic to tackle the strep infection in view of it;s location or whether it might be worth trying azithromycin - it's an off-license medicine in guinea pigs so most vets will be reluctant to prescribe it. However your vet can contact Simon MaddoxCat & Rabbit Clinic in Duston, Northampton who often uses this for treating stubborn infections in guinea pigs....with good results.

If you want a second opinion and can get to Dunston - Simon also treats heart piggies...and is reccomended on GPF as being extremely cavy savvy

HTH
x
 
Just a quick update - Tesla had another episode thismorning, hooting and wheezing and coughing again. I have an appointment for tonight with a piggy specialist, who has dealt with heart problems before. No doubt I'll be back on the forums later with his diagnosis and meds.
 
Back from the vets.

He confirmed the diagnosis we'd already had, but explained it better. Apparently the damage is pretty much permanent, as even if we get the infection out of his heart, it's been there so long that it will remain in his bloodstream, and just come back again. The plan is to keep him on meds until he gets much better, do another scan, and then when he's ready to come off his meds, a few weeks later (by the sounds of it) the infection will be back, and will kill him.
Heart medications would be useless, as the problem is his valves, not his heart muscle, and his heart is working as normal (around 200bpm). He stated this mainly in relation to the use of ACE inhibitors.

It seems the best option will be to keep him on his meds forever. It also seems that he will be too weak to ever undergo surgery, so any advice to reduce the chance of this being necessary, would be good. I believe there are high calcium foods I need to not give him, in case of stones? Please do let me know if there's anything I've missed that I need to consider.

The vet was a nice guy, said he might have done a few things differently, but also pressed the fact that there is an apparently safe form of penicillin, when injected, which does not wipe out the gut flora. He says he has been spreading this around all the vets in the South East, and that he has treated many pigs with this.

Any thoughts please?
 
cavycouture said:
...
The vet was a nice guy, said he might have done a few things differently, but also pressed the fact that there is an apparently safe form of penicillin, when injected, which does not wipe out the gut flora. He says he has been spreading this around all the vets in the South East, and that he has treated many pigs with this.
Click to expand...

Did the Vet mention what this drug was called? I wonder if he's referring to azithromycin, which Pebble mentioned. I believe Azithromycin is a penicillin, and a few forum members have used it to successfully treat acute infections in their pigs. I don't recall hearing of it being administered via injection but that's not to say that it can't be - I haven't used it myself so I'm sure others would know more.

With regard to stones, has Tesla actually been diagnosed with stones/crystals, or is he displaying symptoms associated with stones? Or are you just trying to minimise the risk of problems potentially cropping up in future, bearing in mind that he's not considered to be a "good" surgical candidate?

I'm sorry that the Vet wasn't able to give a better prognosis but it seems like there are still things which are worth a try x
 
No, he has no stones or symptoms, I just want to minimise the risks of him ever getting anything that would require surgery.

No, it was pure penicillin that he insists is safe. Penicillin comes in 2 forms (apparently), one which has something extra in it (which is fatal to pigs) and one which doesnt. Next time I see my vet, I will ask her to write it down for me, and will also be enquiring about papers showing pigs doing well with this penicilin.
 
"Ratewatchers Rainbow Diet" is a highly recommended plan for pigs (including 'bladder pigs') - specially devised to give a carefully balanced diet, taking all things into consideration. If you haven't already tried it, then I'd definitely give it a try.

The crucial thing is to maintain the right mix of foods, in the right quantities. Stones can be formed from different elements also, not just calcium. Too little calcium can also cause problems, as well as too much, so it's important to get the correct balance and it's not necessarily as simple as just cutting down on calcium. It's all explained here and there's a link to the diet itself:
http://www.planetguinea.info/key-facts/

Another key thing is to avoid giving too much of the foods which are very high in oxalic acid (and too frequently) - spinach, parsley, collard greens/spring greens and beet greens are all particularly high. Ratewatchers also takes this into consideration.

If you don't already, you may wish to filter Tesla's drinking water, especially if you're in a hard water area.
 
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