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Pts - Is It The Right Thing To Do?

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gus+walter

gus+walter

Adult Guinea Pig
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I have previously posted threads about my poor boy Gus. He's had a really tough time of it lately. First it was his poos; they were very small and tapered though he was eating normally at the time. He now has zantac syrup twice a day to keep them in check, and it has worked for the most part.
He then started to rapidly lose weight without an obvious reason, the vet couldn't find anything that was causing it and we put it down to stress as he had just got a new cage mate who is extremely playful, and Gus is like a grumpy old man. To be totally honest, he hasn't been the same since Walter passes away last November.
I started to syringe feed him CC to try and boost his weight, I extended the C&C and separated the boys to give Gus some breathing space as Dexter wouldn't leave him alone. That was roughly 4 months ago.
Then he stopped eating all together and wouldn't even be swayed with his favourite parsley and thyme. We have been back and forth to the vets and have seen 5 different vets in the last 6 weeks. Because he isn't eating anything by himself, I have been syringe feeding him every 2 hours for over 2 months now. As expected, he now has dental issues because he isn't even eating hay.
The poor lad is absolutely miserable. He takes no interest in any of his past favourite things. I tried to put a small pice of parsley in his mouth to encourage him to chew and eat by himself, he pulled his lips back and pushed it out of his mouth, the same thing happened with Carrot too. He doesn't run around anymore, he just sits in his cozy all the time until I take him out for hand feeds. It breaks my heart to see him like this and each vet can't find a reason as to why he isn't eating or behaving normally. There's no bladder stones, bloat, uri or anything that can be found to explain this.
He clearly isn't happy anymore, and I don't want him to suffer anymore than he already has. The decision to have him pts is one of the most difficult things I've ever considered, and I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by him. His happiness and quality of life are my top priorities and I can't stand to see him like this. There's always an element of guilt when it comes to pts, but I know that I have done everything in my power to try and bring him back to health and it isn't working.
I'm sorry for the long post, I just want to get your opinions on whether or not this is the right thing to do?
 
I'm very sorry you find yourself in this very difficult circumstances.may i suggest you check that the overgrown teeth are not now causing a problem eating.i would suggest the cat and rabbit clinic in northampton.if you are abe to travel.the vet locator at the top of page will give you a list of guinea pig savvy vets.Simon Maddocks has sorted out my Jerrys teeth and a local vet had wanted to PTS,Jerry.If there are any other medical problems they will be able to give you an informed choice.unfortunatey the ultimate decision is upto you.this is greatly helped if you have a vet whom is competent with guinea pigsalso will give you as much support and information you need.@furryfriends is the expert in dental issues.Without this persons advise to go to the cat and rabbit clinic,Jerry would be PTS.:)
 
eileen said:
I'm very sorry you find yourself in this very difficult circumstances.may i suggest you check that the overgrown teeth are not now causing a problem eating.i would suggest the cat and rabbit clinic in northampton.if you are abe to travel.the vet locator at the top of page will give you a list of guinea pig savvy vets.Simon Maddocks has sorted out my Jerrys teeth and a local vet had wanted to PTS,Jerry.If there are any other medical problems they will be able to give you an informed choice.unfortunatey the ultimate decision is upto you.this is greatly helped if you have a vet whom is competent with guinea pigsalso will give you as much support and information you need.@furryfriends is the expert in dental issues.Without this persons advise to go to the cat and rabbit clinic,Jerry would be PTS.:)
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Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I am unable to travel to Northampton to see Simon or Kim. From where I am it would be a 4 hour train ride, and I honestly don't think he'd survive the journey and would be very stressed. I am also disabled and wouldn't be able to travel that distance (I feel awful about it, but it can't be helped) The dental issues started after he stopped eating. He's had his teeth clipped and the molars burred down. The procedure was carried out under GA and he nearly didn't survive that. He had his incisors clipped again a couple of days ago and the vet said that his back teeth aren't too bad and wouldn't need to be done at this time (phew!).
This may sound absolutely ridiculous, but could it be possible that he is depressed after losing Walter and has never recovered?
 
I am sorry that you are facing this decision :( ultermately you know Gus the best out of all of us.

It isn't a silly question at all and it is possible that he has never recovered from losing Walter especially if they were close x
 
Aww put Gus :( Yes he could still be depressed, we lost Sheamus last year and even though Big E now has a new cage mate even he still looks a bit lost and out of place sometimes. I would assume his lack of eating is what is causing the dental problems?
 
Oh and I totally understand about travelling as well. I'm also disabled and don't drive, my son usually takes them to the local vet by foot but I've started to not trust them after losing a guinea about a month ago.
 
Kerrie74 said:
Aww put Gus :( Yes he could still be depressed, we lost Sheamus last year and even though Big E now has a new cage mate even he still looks a bit lost and out of place sometimes. I would assume his lack of eating is what is causing the dental problems?
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Poor Big E, I'm sorry for your loss of wee Sheamus.
It is the lack of eating that has caused the dental issues, I have splashed out on 3 different types of hay and his very favourite boredom breaker; weave-a-ball. He usually can't resist it, but he gave it a sniff and waddled off back to his cozy. His life is a string of syringe feeds, meds and vet visits (with lots and lots of love and cuddles), that's no quality of life for him :(
 
No it's not :( Luckily for us Big E carried on eating. Hmm I have no idea at all what to suggest you have to do what you think is right for Gus which is really hard because they are like family members.

Maybe @Wiebke can advise you.
 
Kerrie74 said:
Oh and I totally understand about travelling as well. I'm also disabled and don't drive, my son usually takes them to the local vet by foot but I've started to not trust them after losing a guinea about a month ago.
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It's so difficult isn't it? I have risked my own health on several occasions by pushing myself to take him to different vets via taxi and have been in extreme pain throughout, totally worth it! A few days rest usually sees me right (well, my typical base of 'right' lol).
I feel that I've done everything I can with the resources available, I'm trying my hardest to save him, but it's not going to plan. I wish they could talk so he could tell me what's wrong and what he needs!
 
I'm sure he could be depressed after his buddy passing away.Are you able to continue syringe feeding?I'm very sorry you are unable to travel.:agr: with all that @Kerrie74 says. She is a very brave and always tries to be positive regardless of all that life throws at her.Kerrie has lots of hardships,but you would not know if you met Kerrie.I hope someone can give you some more approipiate ideas.Good luck.:)
 
Thank you @eileen :) x

I was just looking for ideas on google but they all point to syringe feeding, so I went onto one of the videos and left a comment asking if the person had any ideas about getting your piggie to eat, I know it might sound daft but someone there might have an idea :)
 
It is always very difficult where to draw the line when things are not quite clear cut. Has he been seen by a competent vet re. teeth and is he on painkillers?

You are a very caring piggy mummy. It is so frustrating when you can't get to the bottom of what is causing his symptoms.
 
I'm not sure how this would work, as it's not totally clear did your boys fall out or did you separate him? My boy Keiko wouldn't eat anything new unless Milo ate it first. The "I want what that piggy has" seems to be a very strong motivator. Perhaps if you could put them together and give your healthy boy some of Old Gus's favourite treats it might get a reaction of "hey that's mine!" Or something of the sort? I'm really no expert just throwing that idea out there
 
I'm not sure how this would work, as it's not totally clear did your boys fall out or did you separate him? My boy Keiko wouldn't eat anything new unless Milo ate it first. The "I want what that piggy has" seems to be a very strong motivator. Perhaps if you could put them together and give your healthy boy some of Old Gus's favourite treats it might get a reaction of "hey that's mine!" Or something of the sort? I'm really no expert just throwing that idea out there
 
I'm so sorry - this is such a sad situation - my Noodles refused to eat after she realised Nuggets wasn't coming home from the vets and she passed the next day - she had been unwell and was fighting it and making a good recovery but loosing him pushed her over the edge - if you hadn't have been syringe feeding him then he would very probably have passed to rainbow bridge by now - if he has no quality of life and is miserable and is now in pain with his teeth I can't see what else you can do for him - I don't think anyone could judge you for helping him pass to the bridge - big hugs to you xx
 
I'm so terribly sorry that you are facing this situation with Gus. Sometimes the loss of their cage mate seems too much to bear for them. Sometimes they appear to simply "give up" despite our best endeavours. I dread having to make that decision for them. It's the hardest decision but one of the kindest acts we can perform for our piggies if they are suffering or have very poor quality of life. Only you can make the decision. No-one here would judge you harshly for making the decision to help him over the Bridge. You have certainly been devoted to him - he couldn't have had better care or attention from you. As my mum has said to me (twice in recent months) do you love them enough to let them go? Thoughts are with you and Gus x
 
I am sure this post won't be popular, but I also think it needs to be said.
I am certainly not trying to criticise how others handle things, or say there is one right answer, but here are my thoughts.

I thin you sound like an amazing and very caring owner.
You have done everything within your power to help your boy, keep him comfortable, and give him a good quality of life.
You clearly love him dearly.
But it isn't working, and he is not happy.
You know this, and Gus knows this.
Our animals do not measure the greatness of their lives in the number of days they have lived.
For whatever reason Gus isn't getting better, and whilst there will always be one more thing you can try, I also believe that there comes a time to say it's enough.
I think if it were my pig, and all of the joy had gone from their life, then I would allow them to pass peacefully away.
I think making the appointment to have any animal put to sleep is difficult, but you can also choose to make this time calm, gentle and filled with love.

I wish you and Gus peace with whichever path you decide to walk.
 
Someone once said to me that if a pig cannot do all things piggy then it is time to let them go and I always remember that now. He reminds me of my Barley after we lost Phoebe and unfortunately we lost him the morning he was due to go to the vet but I wish we could have made the decision for him. I know it's an incredibly hard decision to make but it is the kindest thing we can do for them.
 
I also wanted to add why don't you talk to Gus about it.
It probably sound bonkers, but I always chatted with all of my animals about this decision.
I sat down with them at calm time, when we were alone.
I asked if they were ready to go, and told them what it would be like, and just generally let them know if they wanted to stay a bit longer they just had to let me know.
And then I waited a day o so.

I am sure it sounds ridiculous really, but it always helped me (and I dearly hope it helped my pets too - at least the ones I was lucky enough to ask).
 
Swissgreys said:
I am sure this post won't be popular, but I also think it needs to be said.
I am certainly not trying to criticise how others handle things, or say there is one right answer, but here are my thoughts.

I thin you sound like an amazing and very caring owner.
You have done everything within your power to help your boy, keep him comfortable, and give him a good quality of life.
You clearly love him dearly.
But it isn't working, and he is not happy.
You know this, and Gus knows this.
Our animals do not measure the greatness of their lives in the number of days they have lived.
For whatever reason Gus isn't getting better, and whilst there will always be one more thing you can try, I also believe that there comes a time to say it's enough.
I think if it were my pig, and all of the joy had gone from their life, then I would allow them to pass peacefully away.
I think making the appointment to have any animal put to sleep is difficult, but you can also choose to make this time calm, gentle and filled with love.

I wish you and Gus peace with whichever path you decide to walk.
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I could not agree more with everything written there. You know Gus more than anyone and will choose the right course whatever that happens to be.
My thoughts go out to you at this difficult time.:(
 
What a sad time for you just now. It is difficult when you have to say goodbye to someone you love and who has brought so much happiness to your life.

However the greatest gift of love you can give Gus just now is to let him go if you know he no longer has a quality of life.

I also believe you should sit down with him and tell him all the things you want to and let him know that while you will miss him every day like you do Walter that you will be ok and he does not need to worry about you.

I once had an amazing vet who told me that he believes an animal will often stay even though they are extremely ill because they love their owner so much and are too worried about them to be able to pass. He told me this because at the time my beautiful cat who was so ill that basically he said she should not be alive was still hanging on day by day. That night I sat with her and cried for hours telling her how much she had brought to my life and how I loved her so much but that it was time for her to go now. I had made an appointment for the following afternoon to have her PTS but I found her in her bed later that morning and she had passed away. I will always remember what that vet said to me and to this day will give the gift of letting my loved one go knowing it's ok to leave.

May you both find love and peace in whatever time you have left.
 
Kerrie74 said:
Thank you @eileen :) x

I was just looking for ideas on google but they all point to syringe feeding, so I went onto one of the videos and left a comment asking if the person had any ideas about getting your piggie to eat, I know it might sound daft but someone there might have an idea :)
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Thanks so much @Kerrie74 I really appreciate it! The last vet gave him a gut motility injection to try and boost his appetite, and though he's happily gobbling up his syringe feeds, he's still turning his nose up at veggies and hay. I've chopped them so small it could have been considered as piggy salsa, I tried grating everything and even made a little veggie smoothie, mixed it with his recovery food and popped it into the syringe. He liked it, but it upset his tummy so I'm scared to try that again.
I can continue to syringe feed, but it's not ideal for long term feeding. His teeth with continue to overgrow and become painful. Repeated dentals under GA are out of the question. I'm desperately trying to find a vet (sadly there are no rodentologists in the area) that will do it without anesthetic, but I'm not having much luck. When he's out for floor time, I have to constantly give him little taps on the rump to encourage him to move around or he'll just find a hiding spot and not move. If he is depressed and still deeply affected by Walters passing, then there's not much I can do for that. I doubt there's a citalopram for piggies.
I'm not rushing to the vet just yet to help him sleep, I'm going to give him a couple more weeks to see if he'll come back around. But if he continues this behaviour and lack of eating, then I don't think it would be fair to him to force him to stay and have a life filled with dentals, syringe feeds and continuing to obviously be unhappy.
 
Aww, I feel so bad for you both :( There might be a vet that would advise you via email, she's done it with me before, it's a lady called Rachel Mowbray, @TAN told me about her which is why I contacted the surgery via email, she gave me a lot of info in regards to Storm having bladder and kidney stones. Maybe she can help you?

If you send an email to the address below they will pass it on to Rachel.

[email protected]
 
@Swissgreys There's nothing bonkers in what you've said, I talk to all of my furry family members, we have 9 guinea's, a dog who is 14, two hamsters and a mouse, I natter away to all but the mouse as he's in my son's room, they even look like they are listening lol.
 
Swissgreys said:
I also wanted to add why don't you talk to Gus about it.
It probably sound bonkers, but I always chatted with all of my animals about this decision.
I sat down with them at calm time, when we were alone.
I asked if they were ready to go, and told them what it would be like, and just generally let them know if they wanted to stay a bit longer they just had to let me know.
And then I waited a day o so.

I am sure it sounds ridiculous really, but it always helped me (and I dearly hope it helped my pets too - at least the ones I was lucky enough to ask).
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Not bonkers at all, and your previous post hit the nail on the head of my thought process. I have numerous talks with Gus, I explain what we're going to the vets with each time and what they might do to prep him. I tell him every day that I love him so much and I'm so sorry that I haven't been able to fix him, but I wouldn't trade a moment of our time together for anything. I'm not expecting a miraculous recovery in the next week or so, but I just want to give him an extra chance before we call it a day. It would be selfish of me to force him to stay alive just because I don't want to see him go. I would much rather that he had a peaceful passing after a short but beautiful life, rather than let him suffer. If he doesn't do 'piggy things' then it's not a happy piggy life and that's more important than anything.
 
I always think that you can see it in their eyes when they're not happy. Only you and Gus know when it's time. Sometimes we have to make the tough decision for them.

I've had to make the decision a few times, and have also been too slow at doing anything and they've passed on themselves. Each and every time I think I've made the wrong choice, but that's just a sign of how much we love them. It was the right choice each time.

I always sit with them and talk to them. Look into their eyes and give them a hug. Are they happy? Are they enjoying their lives? Are they going to get better? If it's a no, then I have to decide that it's time to say Goodbye.

I'm really sorry that you have to make the choice, it's the worst part of being a piggy lover. But, it's something we have to do, and Gus will understand.
 
Wiebke said:
It is always very difficult where to draw the line when things are not quite clear cut. Has he been seen by a competent vet re. teeth and is he on painkillers?

You are a very caring piggy mummy. It is so frustrating when you can't get to the bottom of what is causing his symptoms.
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He has seen a guy who is very experienced that was recommended to me by my usual vet (the usual guy is great with the boys, and is honest when he doesn't know or have experience with certain issues). He was on metacam after his first dental, and though he said it was only for 3 days, I could call and get more if needed. He had 1.5ml twice a day for just over a week. We took him off it just in case it was causing further tummy issues that was stopping him from eating by himself. Sadly there's been no change in his eating, but he's more willing to sit still for hand feeding.
When Walter was really poorly and we were fighting to save him, he had a moment where he 'let me know' (if that makes sense?) That he was ready to go. At that point I said "ok mate, I hear you." I gave him the biggest possible (gentle) cuddle and told him how proud I am of him and that I'm sorry he had to go through so much. Gus hasn't given me that clear 'moment' yet. But I don't want to sit idly by to wait for it to get to that point. I think he's giving up and is only eating and staying because he's worried about me. We have a very close bond, I have been never so close to an animal before, not even our old family pooch. I've told him it's OK to go, I'll be ok and will always love him.
This isn't health related - but I was thinking about having a 'treat Gus day' before I make the appointment. There's a beautiful valley just up the road from me with a little stream running through it. There's no dogs allowed on the land because of the sheep that like to hang about there, and I'm on good terms with the farmer. I want to take Gus there with his pop up run and let him have a good sniff of the grass and feel the sunshine. He's always been an indoor pig, and without a garden I feel bad that he hasn't experienced this. Do you think it's a good idea or would it stress him out too much?
 
Go for it. I think you'll both enjoy it and he'll like being outside in the sunshine for what could be the last time. You love him, and know him really well so you won't let it stress him. Even if it's just for a few minutes. It'll be a fantastic memory for you.
 
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