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Dental Rapid Weight Loss, Help?

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CJGMuffin

CJGMuffin

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My first post, so hello everyone, I am hoping you can help. Our 1 year old female GP suddenly stopped eating two weeks ago and has lost 25% of her body weight so far and is all bony and skinny. Otherwise she is still quite bright but her dominant character has disappeared and she has completely lost any interest in food when previously she was a greedy pig. I am worried she is just withering away. 4 trips to the vets, including a second opinion from a GP specialist vet, no one can tell me what's wrong with her. So far we have tried anti inflammatory injection, a week of Baytril, separating her from her cage buddy, she's had an anaesthetic for them to have a good look at her teeth, they tried to take a blood test but as she is so skinny couldn't find a vein. there's nothing obvious wrong but she is not well at all. I have been syringe feeding her Critical Care for two weeks and today the vet gave her Zantac, Emeprid and Metacam for the next week. Has anyone had the same experience? So frustrated that the vets can't tell me what's wrong, she is my 6 year old daughter's first pet and I am doing my best to find a solution with no luck.....any advice? Poos are erratic, sometimes tiny, sometimes diarrhoea, sometimes normal shape and size but jet black. Wees are sometimes reddish/orange. Sometimes she just sits in the corner in her own faeces, other times she moves around, she is nibbling and drinking about 10% of hay, pellets, veg and water compared to what she was eating. Squeaking and talking has almost stopped. Can't find anything similar on the internet so am hoping maybe someone here has had a similar experience? Thanks in advance
 
Oh bless she is clearly in discomfort and I understand this is a stressful & confusing time for you all. Has she had any X-rays it scans to see if there is anything causing a blockage or maybe bladder/kidney stones causing her to feel unwell?

Where are you based and what GP specialist vet did you visit? This might help members of the forum provide more tailored advice
 
The poo's are likely to be erratic given she isn't eating much. I'm hoping the meds you have been given could help. Does your vet suspect bloat (meds provided are usually for this)? If so stop veg and just feed hay & some pellets
 
All the vets have said she doesn't need an X-ray as no obvious discomfort when they feel her tummy, so far two vets at Vets for Pets in Pets at home, maidenhead, Berks, then two different vets at tilehurst vets in reading, I googled specialists and Sally at Tilehurst came up as the best in the area. Thanks for replying so quickly
 
I currently have an older lady who has mystery weightloss, so I feel for you.

Was the GP specialist an actual exotic specialist? I would probably suggest the following: -

- getting some blood off her. They can be tricksy but not impossible, being skinny does not mean it would be harder, my girl has lost over 30% of her body weight and we have bled her three times for blood samples so I would suggest another try (perhaps a different vet may be able to do this)
- X-rays to check for any internal problems, cysts or masses may (or may not) be seen on this
- checking her blood glucose with a spot test to check for diabetes, a tiny little needle stick on her ear can be done for this
- getting a urine sample to rule out a urine infection
- checking her faeces for parasites
- ultrasound scan if anything is seen on the X-ray (often hard to do with a lot of gas being in there guts normally)

Is she gaining any weight on the syringe feeds?
Is there any reason your vet gave her baytril?

Sorry for the questions. Hope I can help.

x

Ps. To add, after reading your reply, even if she has no discomfort does not mean there isn't anything wrong. (Ie no reason for an X-ray). If she's losing weight it need investigating.
 
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We do have a vet locator in the top bar for vets recommended by forum users though I would definitely suggest an exotics specialist as some of the usual suspects have been ruled out (not all vets on the locator are exotics specialists).

Abi is more knowledgable than me so hopefully you will find the above post useful. @Wiebke and @Pebble are both knowledgeable on health issues so I'm tagging them though they may not log on straight away.
 
Thanks so much both, you have made me feel better at least. the vet today did say an exotics specialist was the way forward, especially to do a blood test that needs to be taken from close to her heart so uber risky, I guess I am torn between spending a huge amount of money to find out there's nothing we can do...is that awful? I think I already know the answer to that though..at this stage I will try anything! Thanks Abi, all the above questions will really help me when I next see the vet, I'll look for my nearest exotics specialist on the tab, apparently there's one in Swindon. So sad :-(
 
Yes, Swindon I think so, We're over in London at the RVC exotic specialists if you get stuck.

Yes, blood from the vena cava is pretty routine with us, this is were we took blood from with my Sage who has weightloss.

I hope you find an answer. It's certainly not bad to be saying about paying money vs weather it's treatable but nothing has been ruled out yet. My next stage with my little weightloss pig Sage at the moment is maybe repeating her bloods (for the forth time) or perhaps putting her through our CT scanner. It's a very tough decision when you don't know the outcome.

Let us know how you get on.

Thinking of you.

x
 
Thanks, and you let me know how you get on with Sage.....would be great to know what causes this weight loss!
 
Best of luck! I think that in your case, tests and an exotic vets is the way forward. Has the urine been checked for traces of blood/protein (infection) and has there been an x-ray to see what is going on?

Please take her off any fresh veg and continue to hand feed her. You may also want to put some rough brown cardboard in the cage for her to nibble on; guinea pigs with iffy digestions often seem to crave nutritionally poor fibre to help steady their digestion.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/
 
Is there anyway you can get your piggy to Northampton to see Kim or Simon Maddock at The Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic. We are currently very successfully treating a guinea pig with similar symptoms, extreme weight loss and she is currently making very steady progress. They can also check the mouth/teeth without the need for GA and I feel it would be well worth the trip. Please don't waste any more time going elsewhere.
 
I don;t know if you would like to pursue the option of getting your little one seen by Simon (and if necessary take Debbie up on her offer of a temporary place) or how you are fixed for transport?
As it happens I am travelling to Northampton from Sussex to see Simon on friday afternoon with two opf my own piggies so could give your little piggie a lift up to Debbie?. I shall be also be in Farnham on thursday evening if that would suit better for pick-up (I would syringe feed her overnight)
Please PM me if you want further details

Edit - can you give an idea as to how much she currently weighs or what her normal weight used to be please?
 
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Thank so so much, I can get to Northampton relatively easily so will make an appt to see Simon ASAP and take it from there. What a brilliant forum this is....the only place I have found any answers, thank you!

Btw she was 975g at healthy weight is now 775g...and I was wondering why she has been chewing newspaper so much!
 
Debbie, I am seeing simon at 11.30 on Friday, have no idea what the outcome will be but if she needed to come to you for respite would you be able to take her? Is that what you do at TEAS? Thanks in advance? Corrina
 
That's great you have got an appt on friday -given her weight is down to 775g, having to wait until after the bank holiday would not have been ideal.

The most important thing now is to provide supportive care to keep her bodily functions going.
Try to get a total of 120ml of critical care (or mushed up pellets) per 24hours - split the feeds every 4hourly and give 20-30ml per sitting if she will take it. If she is not drinking from her water bottle then put a bowl of water in and see if she will drink that - otherwise you may also need to syringe water for her as well (1ml of water after every 2-3ml of crtical care works well)

The gut meds will help keep the intestines moving - hopefully although her poos may still be very small they should start to become more consistent in form/shape and be produced more regularly as more food goes in. Given they are sometimes quite loose and her guts aren;t moving properly, keep her off all leafy green veggies and feed small amounts of fresh grass, herbs and dandelions only ( or dried dandelion herbage - i.e. natural forage rather than cultivated stuff!) Plenty of newspaper or white kitchen roll will also help add fibre, especially if she won;t eat her hay.

As to what it may be - I can only speculate at this time but hopefully this will help guide you through the consult on friday
Unless the piggie is having difficulty breathing (because of a respiratory infection or heart issues), then unexplained weight loss accompanied by not eating is most often a response to pain.
That being the case, the most frequent causes are
a) teeth/oral issues - (not necessarily spurs but maybe an abcess at the root that may only be discovered by Xray or if the tooth has loosened enough that it can be extracted) or oral thrush/ulcers or
b) urinary stones/sludge (again only determined by Xray).
Tilehurst vets are good with piggies so I would like to think they would have spotted a spur or oral thrush problem (assuming it was them that did the GA/dental exam?) which leaves the possibility of a brewing tooth root abcess.
So if no tooth root abcess is found, then an Xray is a definite possibility on friday to rule out urinary stones in either the kidney, the ureter, the bladder or the urethra (Not all piggies with stones/sludge demonstrate pain on palpation/examination)

Other causes to rule out may also include:
c) An ear infection/ear mites - which is also very painful and
d) Although normally occurring in older guinea pigs (but it can be early onset in young pigs) - arthritis can develop in shoulders, spine and hocks and cause similar symptoms
(again Xray helps with these diganoses)
e) it could be an intestinal infection (poo culture may be required) or
f) an infection that is coming from another focal source but spreading through the body (eg an internal abcess somewhere).

The orange/red wee is something you need to bring up with the vet on friday - is the wee nomal colour when immediately being passed and changes colour once exposed to air? Although this can be caused by an excess of carrots/beetroot/corn/melon (especially honeydew melon), I have had this occur a few times in piggies with weight loss/not eating that have an infection somewhere (we were never able to find out where except in one case where it was a grumbling tooth root abcess) but a course of anitbiotics has sorted all the problems. If it is more pinky in colour with streaks of what looks like blood then this would again point towards a urinary issue (either infection or stones)

If it is an "undefined" bacterial infection then 7 days of baytril may not have been suifficient to clear it (a lot of bugs now have resistance to baytril) and it may be an alternative antbiotic is needed. However it could be a fungal or parastic infection in which case alternative drugs would be needed.

I hope you get an answer on friday so your piggie can get the appropriate treatment - if a thorough exam/Xray and poo cultures reveal nothing then bloods would be your next step

The most important thing is that you are acting promptly before your piggie has lost so much weight that any journey/exam etc would become too stressful for them. Sadly, in our experence, once a poorly adult pig's weight falls below 600g, then any prognosis is far more guarded.

Good luck on friday
x
 
Amazing, thank you. My problem now is that she is really p***ed off with me with getting her out every couple of hours to either give food or drugs! she is nudging, biting and struggling to get away from me every time a syringe gets anywhere near her...I am now only managing to get about 3ml of critical care Into her at each sitting before she goes nuts, the stress can't be helping her either! Her cage mate is pretty miserable too...roll on Friday although not sure how she is going to take a 1.5 hr car journey :-( the bit I am confused about is she seems to think food is quite interesting, goes up to it, sniffs it then walks away? Anyway, only one more day until we see Simon. Thank you x
 
Sorry I only just came back to see the update on this thread. I am glad you have an appointment with Simon on Friday. At least you know you are in very good hands. As you can see from above there are quite a few options as to why she might be losing weight so it may well be a case of ruling out as many as possible. Its hard that she is fighting you but just keep telling her you are doing it for her own good... I'm sure in time she will forgive you!

I noticed weight loss in one of my older pigs (the one in my avatar) and it turned out she had renal disease. That said, even with renal disease, ovarian cysts and being an elderly lady she still lived a further 18 months. I just wanted to reassure you that even if you don't get the best possible outcome by way of diagnosis it's not all doom and gloom. Keep us updated and feel free to ask anything you want, this is what the forum is here for.
 
Have you tried feeding her mushed up pellets? She may be more accepting of the flavour - sometimes a change does them good. Don't worry about syringing separate water, as the water added to make the paste will obviously be going into her. If you have a blender, you could also try blending up some veggies and syringing that in. At this time, it really doesn't matter what type of food you are getting into her, anything will keep her system going until tomorrow.

Are you bringing her cage mate with you? She will get some support from her on the journey.
 
I can't add anything more helpful than all the excellent advice you have been given but just wanted to say thinking of you and wishing you all the best. Keep at it with the syringe feeding. In my experience, if they start to realise you are not going to give up they often eventually give in and allow you to feed them. Lots of stroking and cuddling in between also helps to reassure them.
 
Thanks everyone, a last couple of questions before we get in the car for a long day tomorrow....should I take her cage mate with her? Won't it just be really stressful for both of them? What if she has to stay in Northampton either at the vets or at TEAS? Will that stress her cage mate out more by doing at least a 4 hour round trip and coming home without her? Is there anything I can do to make her journey less stressful?

Today's update,....She now has a sore under her mouth where the critical care has been glued up in her fur (my bad syringe feeding technique as she is struggling so much now) I can't get it all off as she bites me like crazy when I get near her mouth. And sadly she is only 755g, another 20g lost after two days of 2 hourly feeding. Not feeling hopeful :-(
 
CJGMuffin said:
Thanks everyone, a last couple of questions before we get in the car for a long day tomorrow....should I take her cage mate with her? Won't it just be really stressful for both of them? What if she has to stay in Northampton either at the vets or at TEAS? Will that stress her cage mate out more by doing at least a 4 hour round trip and coming home without her? Is there anything I can do to make her journey less stressful?

Today's update,....She now has a sore under her mouth where the critical care has been glued up in her fur (my bad syringe feeding technique as she is struggling so much now) I can't get it all off as she bites me like crazy when I get near her mouth. And sadly she is only 755g, another 20g lost after two days of 2 hourly feeding. Not feeling hopeful :-(
Click to expand...

- please take her companion with her; it is great source of comfort during the trip if they can snuggle up together and especially if she has to stay longer. I always take a "paw holding" piggy with me whenever I make a train journey and in the case of an operation a whole day trip to Northampton. She is going to the best place possible. Simon has worked his magic with old piggies of mine with even lowere weight, so take heart! If it is sortable, Simon will sort it! ;)

Take some food for her companion as well.
Here are our travelling tips: https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/travelling-with-guinea-pigs.109071/

Fingers very firmly crossed!
 
Hiya! Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. Don't worry about bringing a cage. If she needs to stay with me, then I have plenty of spare ones. I won't be at the practice when you arrive as picking up the 12 o'clock appointment from the railway station, but please wait for me, and we can have a chat about what Simon and Kim find. xx
 
Thank you so much, I am so upset, not sure she's going to make it through the night, just got only 2ml of critical care into her but had no joy with the meds, she just lay on my lap slowly closing her eyes, I thought she was going to pass away there and then, but then she got cross with me again once I got the syringe out...let's hope her fighting spirit will keep her going until tomorrow.

Again, what a wonderful group of ladies you are, I'm feeling that if anything can be done it will be, thanks to you. Fingers, toes and everything else crossed x
 
Just keep plodding with the syringe feed throughout tonight......as long as she will swallow whatever you manage to get into her mouth (even if just a gentle dribble) then it's all still positiive. Her weight is also still very good.....

9 months ago young Sooty was being transported by me up to TEAS but the car broke down in the middle of the most horrendous thunderstorm the south east has seen in many years. Sooty weighed 550g and was extremely poorly with a developing URI to boot.
I spent the weekend at home drip-feeding him 0..1ml critical care per mouthful continuously over 48hrs until I could get him up to Debbie and Simon.......between us all he made a full recovery.

You;re doing a grand job - just try and drip feed as much as you can between now and tomorrow and please don;t give up hope!
x.
 
I have my fingers firmly crossed for you! Hope Simon can get to the bottom of things for you x
 
Hope all goes ok today, if anyone can help it's Simon and Kim.
 
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