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Sad Decision - Need Your Famous Vibes

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Guinea Slave

Guinea Slave

Adult Guinea Pig
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HI Guys

I need your strength and support. Some of you may remember my gorgeous piggy, Cagney (in my avatar) had pneumonia last year. Her amazing strength pulled her through and she has become very much a human piggy, not liking others and preferring human company. She is in a shed so she can see the others but prefers her own company and ours. As such we have an incredible bond between us.

She has heart issues and is on maximum medication of Frusol, Fortekor, Vetmedin and Q10 etc. However, she is now pretty sick as her heart is slowly letting her down. She has lost 50g in weight the last few days, she is eating but her usual appetite has gone. She is incredibly bellowy and it looks exhausting to watch. Her coat is terrible, and hair all on end, her eyes are weepy.

I took her to the vet on Saturday and she said that her heart was beating harder but her lungs were oK, however it was clear that it was only a matter of time before she leaves us.

Now usually making the decision to PTS would be fairly easy to make in these circumstances, however she is there waiting for her breakfast every morning. She wheeked for her food yesterday, she is boisterous in her cage, shoving stuff around with her nose and generally her mental condition is very happy. even my husband who was adamant I should make the right decision for her, changed his mind this weekend. However, she is tired, breathing is hard work and she is losing weight and I dont want to syringe feed her as she does not like it. Quality of life is much more important to me.

I dont know what to do for the best, I know she probably only has a couple more days but if I leave it, I have two days this week when I cannot be around due to work, what if she goes downhill and I cannot be there for her? Knowing she won't get better is it better to make the decision a day too early than a day too late?

I am in pieces and just dont know what to do. I know its my decision inevitably but just could do with some of your kind words.
 
Oh - I feel for you. This is the worst part of owning guinea pigs. I agree with you that the most important thing is Cagney's quality of life. Do you or your vet have any concerns whether she is suffering at all?
 
The vet I saw on Saturday (an emergency vet) was happy that she was not in any pain but that she was probably stressed with the strain of breathing and her heart working so hard. She seemed ok to keep her going as she is for now, but she has got worse since then. I don't think she is in pain either but getting exhausted from fighting it. Seeing her sides bellowing in and out so hard and rapidly is the hardest part. She is very tired all of the time.
 
Oh this is one of those heartbreaking decisions we have to make in life where your head says one thing but your heart another.

If you were going to be there all the time to watch her and be with her in her final moments then I would say let nature take it's course as long as she is not in pain.

However if you are going to have to go to work and her time may come while you are not with her do you think that would be sad and distressing for her and you?

At least if you were to take her to the vet it would mean you could hold her and help her on her journey over the rainbow bridge with love and cuddles.

I am so sorry that you have to make this decision as I am crying while typing this as it does hurt so much to let them go but I guess loving them means we also need to know when to let them go.

Sending love and hugs to you and your family and of course to Cagney x
 
I agree with @Caron's Cavies that if you take her down you will be there to help her on her way. As you say it is only a matter of time now, and personally I think a day too early is better than a day too late. But it is an awful thing to have to do. :hug:
 
Thank you so much for your replies. I just wish I did not have to work! I am at home today and trying to manipulate my diary to be at home all day on Wednesday as well. My mother will have her tomorrow (and knows and loves her as i do). I am waiting for my usual vet to call me to discuss now as well (I hope I don't embarrass myself by crying!). Its so hard when they still have a fighting spirit and you know they dont want to go, its just their bodies letting them down. Every morning I dread going to the shed to see what I will find and there she is waiting for her food. However, today her chin is very dirty with food and she is not cleaning herself as well. Its so tough.
 
BIG HUGS

It is always so much harder to decide when to draw the line when it is a rather slow, gradual decline and your beloved piggy is still fighting and has not yet given up. I would think that you are coming close to the line, but are not quite there yet. You will know when that is the case, but the period between the realisation that there is going to be only one outcome and it actually happening is one of the hardest, especially when the responsibility is resting completely on your shoulders and you are constantly agonising about when is the right time. Thankfully, in most cases, you will know or nature will take the decision out of your hands with a sudden, quick decline.

Could you bring Cagney indoors overnight in your carrier box, so you can keep a better eye on her and react asap if there any changes for the time being?
 
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Guinea Slave said:
Thank you so much for your replies. I just wish I did not have to work! I am at home today and trying to manipulate my diary to be at home all day on Wednesday as well. My mother will have her tomorrow (and knows and loves her as i do). I am waiting for my usual vet to call me to discuss now as well (I hope I don't embarrass myself by crying!). Its so hard when they still have a fighting spirit and you know they dont want to go, its just their bodies letting them down. Every morning I dread going to the shed to see what I will find and there she is waiting for her food. However, today her chin is very dirty with food and she is not cleaning herself as well. Its so tough.
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If you really do want to let nature take it's course then could you perhaps have a tummy bug on Thursday and Friday? I think you would be forgiven for a little white lie at the moment.

Perhaps though after speaking to your vet you will feel a bit more able to make a decision.

Just remember in life there are no right or wrong decisions. They are all just decisions you make for yourself and your loved ones including your little girl Cagney.

Also if any help before you start speaking to the vet if they do not know you that well, just say to them "before I start let me warn you I am very upset and will probably cry".

I make no apologies to anyone for loving my pets as much as my children. By the way the children know this already :lol!:

My vet knows me so well it is taken as a given that I will cry. I get all upset and teary even when they are sick.

When my male rabbit was taken in to be neutered they had to do him first so that he could come home early. Not for his sake but for mine cause I literally could not eat and was so upset :nod:

Sending you lots of hugs :hug:
 
Wiebke said:
BIG HUGS

It is always so much harder to decide when to draw the line when it is a rather slow, gradual decline and your beloved piggy is still fighting and has not yet given up. I would think that you are coming close to the line, but are not quite there yet. You will know when that is the case, but the period between the realisation that there is going to be only one outcome and it actually happening is one of the hardest, especially when the responsibility is resting completely on your shoulders.

Could you bring Cagney indoors overnight in your carrier box, so you can keep a better eye on her and react asap if there any changes for the time being?
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Hi Wiebke

Thank you. I do agree, I don't think either of us are there yet but its a matter of hours or days. I almost booked her in earlier to go to the vet, I went out to the shed just now and she looked very tired and fed up, I went back to get some grass for them and there she was standing at the bars staring at me all hopeful for the grass! She seems to wax and wain from being terrible one moment to OK the next. However her appetite (apart from for grass!) has really gone downhill. I have thought about bringing her indoors at night but I think she is much more relaxed with the others and in her place. Her shed is heated and she has a heat pad to lie against. I will have her in this afternoon and this evening until late. I just wish she would let me know what she wants. I'll anything for her.
 
Guinea Slave said:
Hi Wiebke

Thank you. I do agree, I don't think either of us are there yet but its a matter of hours or days. I almost booked her in earlier to go to the vet, I went out to the shed just now and she looked very tired and fed up, I went back to get some grass for them and there she was standing at the bars staring at me all hopeful for the grass! She seems to wax and wain from being terrible one moment to OK the next. However her appetite (apart from for grass!) has really gone downhill. I have thought about bringing her indoors at night but I think she is much more relaxed with the others and in her place. Her shed is heated and she has a heat pad to lie against. I will have her in this afternoon and this evening until late. I just wish she would let me know what she wants. I'll anything for her.
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You're doing great.
 
Caron's Cavies said:
If you really do want to let nature take it's course then could you perhaps have a tummy bug on Thursday and Friday? I think you would be forgiven for a little white lie at the moment.

Perhaps though after speaking to your vet you will feel a bit more able to make a decision.

Just remember in life there are no right or wrong decisions. They are all just decisions you make for yourself and your loved ones including your little girl Cagney.

Also if any help before you start speaking to the vet if they do not know you that well, just say to them "before I start let me warn you I am very upset and will probably cry".

I make no apologies to anyone for loving my pets as much as my children. By the way the children know this already :lol!:

My vet knows me so well it is taken as a given that I will cry. I get all upset and teary even when they are sick.

When my male rabbit was taken in to be neutered they had to do him first so that he could come home early. Not for his sake but for mine cause I literally could not eat and was so upset :nod:

Sending you lots of hugs :hug:
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Thank you. Yes, she is supposed to have called but not heard yet and I have a conference call shortly, she is bound to call then ;-( She does know me well ;-) and will no doubt expect tears...there are usually a lot with me!

Unfortunately I cannot take a sicky, I have customers to host at an event all day Thursday and just cannot get out of it. worse comes to worse I could be late and get her sorted. Afterall if it was a child which was ill it would be accepted! I am terrified its all going to happen then. Friday is more manageable. Its all so complicated and i dont want to PTS just to fit in to my schedule, I could never forgive myself.
 
Guinea Slave said:
Hi Wiebke

Thank you. I do agree, I don't think either of us are there yet but its a matter of hours or days. I almost booked her in earlier to go to the vet, I went out to the shed just now and she looked very tired and fed up, I went back to get some grass for them and there she was standing at the bars staring at me all hopeful for the grass! She seems to wax and wain from being terrible one moment to OK the next. However her appetite (apart from for grass!) has really gone downhill. I have thought about bringing her indoors at night but I think she is much more relaxed with the others and in her place. Her shed is heated and she has a heat pad to lie against. I will have her in this afternoon and this evening until late. I just wish she would let me know what she wants. I'll anything for her.
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It is very much an up and down when all you want is clarity and all you get is very mixed signals. I would recommend that you humor her with what she wants to eat right now and for as long as she enjoys a little nibble. I doubt that it will be longer than a couple of days, max. three, as it looks like her body has now started to go into the very first stages of acute heart failure and a body close-down.
You have to play it as it goes; if she is at any stage in any major discomfort, be prepared to pts, otherwise, let her slip away in a favourite cosy that you place a mildly heated snugglesafe underneath, so she is comfy and warm, but not too hot when her circulation is no longer working. I generally prefer to leave my dying piggies with their friends, too, in a secluded spot, but where they are still accessible. How it goes, depends very much on the order the other organs break down. Sometimes, it can go very gently, sometimes it is sadly not quite as nice.

Thinking of your and your very special girl! Good that you can be with her.
 
Sorry you and little Cagney are going through this, I can only echo what has been said above by all. She is a little fighter but at some point it will unfortunately become to much for her and you'll want to act before then... You just have to play it by ear. It is so difficult and unfortunately is a no win situation. All we can do is out their welfare and quality of life above our feelings and you will always do this because you are a brilliant Mum.

Sending Cagney lots of vibes and you a huge hug x x
 
Thank you everyone. I think I am going to try and see if we can make the decision on Wednesday. I just cannot bear the thought of leaving her and her dying on her own on Thursday or leaving her with my mum to make that decision for me. I just keep thinking the old saying 'better a day too early than a day too late' I could not forgive myself if she suffered. If I book her in and she perks up then I will see what the vet says and she can always come home and fight another day. At least the vet can hear her heart and lungs better than me.

My boss is pretty understanding so I hope that I can perhaps do my meeting tomorrow morning then come back home. Then apart from Thursday I think I am covered.

Its so terribly sad and in some respects so much easier when they are in a lot of pain and you know there is no other option. She is so brave and that is whats breaking my heart.
 
Wiebke said:
It is very much an up and down when all you want is clarity and all you get is very mixed signals. I would recommend that you humor her with what she wants to eat right now and for as long as she enjoys a little nibble. I doubt that it will be longer than a couple of days, max. three, as it looks like her body has now started to go into the very first stages of acute heart failure and a body close-down.
You have to play it as it goes; if she is at any stage in any major discomfort, be prepared to pts, otherwise, let her slip away in a favourite cosy that you place a mildly heated snugglesafe underneath, so she is comfy and warm, but not too hot when her circulation is no longer working. I generally prefer to leave my dying piggies with their friends, too, in a secluded spot, but where they are still accessible. How it goes, depends very much on the order the other organs break down. Sometimes, it can very gently, sometimes sadly it is not quite as nice.

Thinking of your and your very special girl! Good that you can be with her.
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You are so right, my hammy died from heart failure recently. we knew there was nothing we could do and it was late, so we sat up with him cuddling him in our bed until he slipped away, it was so peaceful, we were both with him and he seemed very reassured by that. I wish they could all be like that.
 
Guinea Slave said:
Thank you everyone. I think I am going to try and see if we can make the decision on Wednesday. I just cannot bear the thought of leaving her and her dying on her own on Thursday or leaving her with my mum to make that decision for me. I just keep thinking the old saying 'better a day too early than a day too late' I could not forgive myself if she suffered. If I book her in and she perks up then I will see what the vet says and she can always come home and fight another day. At least the vet can hear her heart and lungs better than me.

My boss is pretty understanding so I hope that I can perhaps do my meeting tomorrow morning then come back home. Then apart from Thursday I think I am covered.

Its so terribly sad and in some respects so much easier when they are in a lot of pain and you know there is no other option. She is so brave and that is whats breaking my heart.
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I think that is a sound plan. That phrase was something that Helen said to me very early on when I joined the forum and it has stuck.

I am really sorry, we are all thinking of you and here if you need to sound off etc...

Give Cagney a snuggle for me x x
 
Guinea Slave said:
Thank you everyone. I think I am going to try and see if we can make the decision on Wednesday. I just cannot bear the thought of leaving her and her dying on her own on Thursday or leaving her with my mum to make that decision for me. I just keep thinking the old saying 'better a day too early than a day too late' I could not forgive myself if she suffered. If I book her in and she perks up then I will see what the vet says and she can always come home and fight another day. At least the vet can hear her heart and lungs better than me.

My boss is pretty understanding so I hope that I can perhaps do my meeting tomorrow morning then come back home. Then apart from Thursday I think I am covered.

Its so terribly sad and in some respects so much easier when they are in a lot of pain and you know there is no other option. She is so brave and that is whats breaking my heart.
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Perhaps the both of you are being strong for each other.

I once had a cat who was very ill and being treated by my vet. He said to me that she was not in pain and that I could let nature take it's course. However she kept hanging on even though she literally was not eating and was disappearing before our very eyes. On the last visit to my vet he said to me that he believed that she was keeping herself alive because she felt she could not leave me. He suggested I go home and cuddle her and explain to her that while I loved her so much that I wanted her to stay that it would be alright if she left me as I would be ok and that we would meet again. I did this and she watched me as I sobbed and told her about all the memories that I would keep in my heart of her and that night she passed away in her sleep peacefully.

Coincidence? Not as far as I am concerned. Perhaps worth a try if you feel up to it.
 
I'm so sorry it has come to this, sadly even heart meds can't stop the inevitable though they do help prolong it. You have had some good advice above and it sounds like you have made your decision. I too am a firm believer in "Better a day too early than a second too late". I went through the same thing with Star who was also a heart pig, she was lively and eating ok but her body was failing her and I had to make the decision based on what was likely to happen over the next few days or even weeks, so that she didn't suffer.
 
helen105281 said:
I'm so sorry it has come to this, sadly even heart meds can't stop the inevitable though they do help prolong it. You have had some good advice above and it sounds like you have made your decision. I too am a firm believer in "Better a day too early than a second too late". I went through the same thing with Star who was also a heart pig, she was lively and eating ok but her body was failing her and I had to make the decision based on what was likely to happen over the next few days or even weeks, so that she didn't suffer.
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Helen you have no idea how much better that makes me feel re Star. I find it so hard to 'play God' and plan to have them PTS but you have to take a view and plan. People die without loved ones around, my poor grandmother dies over night when I had just left her for a few hours, no one was there for her. I just think that maybe planning the inevitable prevents suffering further. She is just so darn strong and I will miss her so very much.

Can I ask if its not too painful, how did you know Star was going that way? PM if you like?
 
:( :( Big hugs for you and Cagney, who is such a super star bless her.
I don't think I can give any more advice that what has already been given but I'd like to offer limitless emotional and moral support. You'll know whats right for her. *hugs*
We had similar with Tango as his kidneys slowly went where he'd look a bit rough and then the next minute be biting the bars like a lunatic for some treats. Although we had quite a bit more time than you seem to be up against I found once I'd accepted that at some point soon I'd have to say goodbye to him by making a choice it was easier to accept doing the deed when the time finally came to it. Its horrendous having that hovering over you and awful having to watch a beloved friend go downhill but once I've had time to adjust to it I'd take that over an unexpected loss any day.
 
Caron's Cavies said:
Perhaps the both of you are being strong for each other.

I once had a cat who was very ill and being treated by my vet. He said to me that she was not in pain and that I could let nature take it's course. However she kept hanging on even though she literally was not eating and was disappearing before our very eyes. On the last visit to my vet he said to me that he believed that she was keeping herself alive because she felt she could not leave me. He suggested I go home and cuddle her and explain to her that while I loved her so much that I wanted her to stay that it would be alright if she left me as I would be ok and that we would meet again. I did this and she watched me as I sobbed and told her about all the memories that I would keep in my heart of her and that night she passed away in her sleep peacefully.

Coincidence? Not as far as I am concerned. Perhaps worth a try if you feel up to it.
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That is an amazing story. It is interesting as to be honest, all the ones who have hung on in the past have been ones I have been closest bond to, I can name each one and all have slipped away until I helped them along. The independent ones I have to say gave up much quicker and I knew instinctively when the moment was right. Animals are such amazing creatures.
 
I have just spoken to the vet. we are going to up her Frusol again, and see if this helps, it means risking her kidneys as she is already on a very high dose but at least we will know if its purely her lungs which is causing an issue and buy some more time if I want to. She is booked in to go to the vets Wednesday at 5pm, we will make the decision then to Pts but I think we both know that its likely this is going to be the outcome. I don't see the point of using the Frusol to delay the inevitable really but we will see. I do feel better now that decision has been made. I have a while to say goodbye now.

I did manage to cry like a baby through the whole conversation I do feel sorry for vets ;-)
 
Guinea Slave said:
Helen you have no idea how much better that makes me feel re Star. I find it so hard to 'play God' and plan to have them PTS but you have to take a view and plan. People die without loved ones around, my poor grandmother dies over night when I had just left her for a few hours, no one was there for her. I just think that maybe planning the inevitable prevents suffering further. She is just so darn strong and I will miss her so very much.

Can I ask if its not too painful, how did you know Star was going that way? PM if you like?
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With Star it was more drastic weight loss. No matter how much she ate she was shrinking daily.
 
Guinea Slave said:
I have just spoken to the vet. we are going to up her Frusol again, and see if this helps, it means risking her kidneys as she is already on a very high dose but at least we will know if its purely her lungs which is causing an issue and buy some more time if I want to. She is booked in to go to the vets Wednesday at 5pm, we will make the decision then to Pts but I think we both know that its likely this is going to be the outcome. I don't see the point of using the Frusol to delay the inevitable really but we will see. I do feel better now that decision has been made. I have a while to say goodbye now.

I did manage to cry like a baby through the whole conversation I do feel sorry for vets ;-)
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It is so hard and very emotional to make these decisions over a beloved piggy; it is like having to blind fly through thick cloud whereas you can judge everything clearly in hindsight from a charted map. There is no right or wrong in these kind of situations. I have been in tears on more than one occasion when weighing up the pros and cons with a vet; that is pretty normal!

I have pts in some similar situations whereas I have bought more time for other piggies. For me, the deciding factor is that the balance between a piggy's will to live and the quality of its life/dying process balance up, but there are also other financial or work/care related issues that have to be taken into consideration individually. Each case is different and has to be judged on its own merits.

It can be useful to give a piggy a deadline with a last ditch attempt if that is helping you with the decision making process. A few days more or less don't matter in the overall scheme of things, but what is vital that it feels right for you (as much as it has to for Cagney) and that you can take your leave in a positive way and are not left guilt-racked.
 
Sending you hugs and strengths. Better a day too early than a day too late but how do you know the next day will be a day too late?

I had a renal pig with an abscess and cysts by the end. She had gone 2-3 weeks of her daily metacam but despite weight loss still had bright eyes, was running around and wheeked for veggies like she was a youngster.

I had no idea that the next morning the other pigs would be wheeling to get my attention & she would be collapsed on the floor barely able to move and drooling. This was January and it still breaks my heart seeing her that way, I wish I had known the night before that she was ready and could have gone more comfortably
 
Thats so sad. Yes this is my fear I could not bear it. I just owe her so much to give her the best care possible and they do hide illness very well. I know my family want me to make the decision sooner rather than later but then they see her and understand why I cannot make the decision yet. I do think 48 hours we will know and it will be time. She also cannot keep going on all these drugs and I fear that they must be making her feel rotten as well. She used to love taking her frusol and now she hates it, I wonder if she knows its bad for her.

Its just so so hard.
 
Guinea Slave said:
Thats so sad. Yes this is my fear I could not bear it. I just owe her so much to give her the best care possible and they do hide illness very well. I know my family want me to make the decision sooner rather than later but then they see her and understand why I cannot make the decision yet. I do think 48 hours we will know and it will be time. She also cannot keep going on all these drugs and I fear that they must be making her feel rotten as well. She used to love taking her frusol and now she hates it, I wonder if she knows its bad for her.

Its just so so hard.
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HUGS

It never gets any easier, as each piggy is unique and special, and you love it so very much. But I would think that you will know in the next 48 hours.

Sending you my love!
 
Thank you so much everyone. I am so much calmer now and Cagney is currently in the kitchen with me while I do dinner, in her little house cage with a heat pad, nibbling on all sorts from the depths of the kitchen. She is perky but keeps chattering her teeth which makes me think its her way of saying she is not happy (she rarely chatters her teeth and its at nothing in particular).

You guys are so amazing and give me the strength I am going to need to make the right decision when the right time comes. I will let you know how we are getting on but thank you from the bottom of my heart. xx
 
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