EqualRiver
Junior Guinea Pig
Hello everyone, here is some context. I'm sorry that it is going to be long, I just had to make it as detailed as possible for the best advice from everyone.
1- I have two young sows. P is going to be 1 at the end of this month, and M is 7 months old (teenagers!). P just lost her cage mate for a week, and M only recently lost her cage mate. They were from owners who kept their herd in small cages, so P and M have smelled and seen each other. Their new cage is a 2x4 CC with 3 bottles, 3 bowls, one huge hay pile area, and 3-4 hides. P was a lot more skittish and afraid of humans as compared to M, but mellowed out after 2 weeks. I weigh them daily because I fear that one is bullied, but they are both eating well despite everything. The vet has cleared them for good health after I raised my concerns.
2- I made the mistake of not introducing them slowly to each other, assuming they already knew each other from the herd. But they were introduced together on the first day (had a playdate from the owners who told me it was good), which initially went super well for the first 20 hours. However, in their new 2x4 cage during the first 4 days, there was some tussling (nipping, no teeth chattering, chasing, nose punching), but they would stop and settle down together. I watched a ton of bonding rescue videos from the LA Guinea Pig Rescue and concluded that it was hierarchy-establishing. I initially assumed as no blood was drawn, things would be acceptable.
There seemed to be a clear hierarchy of M as the boss, and P as the submissive. Some of their fights were a lot more violent than the average sow. They did a tornado fur fight 4 times (basically once a day for the first few days). 1 was unprompted in the cage, 2 happened while I was cage cleaning (It might have been my fault because when cleaning, there would always be a better hide that was away from me. It could be fear-induced.) And the last was in a big box for cage cleaning with hides (I fear this one was my mistake of putting them in a space that is too small). The fights, I stopped asap with a towel and allowed them to calm down. This scared me tremendously. When they fought this badly, I let them cool off and then introduced them again in a neutral space. They settled and calmed down, so I let them figure it out.
However, as my girls are quite hairy, it was only 1 week in when I found 1-2 tiny falling scabs (less than 1mm, looked like a flake of dandruff) on their butt. Observing the falling scabs, it did not seem deep and could also be the aftermath of a tiny chunk of hair pulled out. At this point, I found them gently grooming each other, saying hello by sniffing butts and touching cheeks, huddling together sometimes, and they seemed to be okay. M still regularly rumblestruts, and sometimes chased P. If P gets annoyed, she does a small nose punch, but nothing too aggressive.
3- On the 19th day, I discovered that P started rumblestrutting together with M. There is the occasional nose punch from P while I am cleaning their cage, but only if they get into each other's faces. At this point, they sometimes shared hides, so I wasn't too worried.
4-On the 22nd, I discovered a tiny 1 mm nip on M's ears, no blood just a little cut. The two seemed okay together but I got concerned. It seemed that they might be retesting their hierarchy.
5- On the 23rd day (today!), I discovered tiny tufts of hair in their cage in the morning. This worried me, but there were no new wounds. I cleaned out their cage, and they acted nicely together for 1.5h back into their cage. There were no changes made to their setup of 4 hideouts, with always two points of escape, and a clear food zone.
But then suddenly out of nowhere, they began tornado fighting. I did not see what happen, but I did not hear any teeth chattering before this. A good chunk of hair was ripped from P, and M lost bits hair as well; no blood was drawn, but it was more hair than I've ever seen from their fights. Mo was chattering her teeth after that, while P hid in fear. In great panic, I blocked them both and set a divider up between their cage, while I got someone to supervise them both for floor time. On the ground, after they calmed down they did not act aggressively towards each other.
6-I have now placed them back into their cage with a divider between them where they can smell and see each other. M seems to want to go back to P, while P snoozes away from her.
Currently, I do not know what is the best thing I should do for them. I've been worrying for the first 2 weeks, and after that, had genuinely assumed their bond was alright. But it seems like it's still shaky, I'm back in panic mode. I'm worried that their bond was already bad after the tornado fights, and I did them wrong by assuming the scab wasn't blood already drawn. I fear that they hold grudges against each other.
I also think that P could be in her season and M is a teen, but I do not know what to do from this point on. To be honest, I currently do not trust my girls because they act so well together and do not always show the usual dominance signs before they fight. The lack of slow dominance interaction before a fight confuses me. The quick escalation to full blown fur yanking scares me the most.
I would really appreciate if someone could let me know what the next best course of action for my girls. I just don't know if I'm being a bad owner. I don't know if separation is the best for them. And I do not know if I should keep trying to bond them. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and I appreciate any advice you have.
1- I have two young sows. P is going to be 1 at the end of this month, and M is 7 months old (teenagers!). P just lost her cage mate for a week, and M only recently lost her cage mate. They were from owners who kept their herd in small cages, so P and M have smelled and seen each other. Their new cage is a 2x4 CC with 3 bottles, 3 bowls, one huge hay pile area, and 3-4 hides. P was a lot more skittish and afraid of humans as compared to M, but mellowed out after 2 weeks. I weigh them daily because I fear that one is bullied, but they are both eating well despite everything. The vet has cleared them for good health after I raised my concerns.
2- I made the mistake of not introducing them slowly to each other, assuming they already knew each other from the herd. But they were introduced together on the first day (had a playdate from the owners who told me it was good), which initially went super well for the first 20 hours. However, in their new 2x4 cage during the first 4 days, there was some tussling (nipping, no teeth chattering, chasing, nose punching), but they would stop and settle down together. I watched a ton of bonding rescue videos from the LA Guinea Pig Rescue and concluded that it was hierarchy-establishing. I initially assumed as no blood was drawn, things would be acceptable.
There seemed to be a clear hierarchy of M as the boss, and P as the submissive. Some of their fights were a lot more violent than the average sow. They did a tornado fur fight 4 times (basically once a day for the first few days). 1 was unprompted in the cage, 2 happened while I was cage cleaning (It might have been my fault because when cleaning, there would always be a better hide that was away from me. It could be fear-induced.) And the last was in a big box for cage cleaning with hides (I fear this one was my mistake of putting them in a space that is too small). The fights, I stopped asap with a towel and allowed them to calm down. This scared me tremendously. When they fought this badly, I let them cool off and then introduced them again in a neutral space. They settled and calmed down, so I let them figure it out.
However, as my girls are quite hairy, it was only 1 week in when I found 1-2 tiny falling scabs (less than 1mm, looked like a flake of dandruff) on their butt. Observing the falling scabs, it did not seem deep and could also be the aftermath of a tiny chunk of hair pulled out. At this point, I found them gently grooming each other, saying hello by sniffing butts and touching cheeks, huddling together sometimes, and they seemed to be okay. M still regularly rumblestruts, and sometimes chased P. If P gets annoyed, she does a small nose punch, but nothing too aggressive.
3- On the 19th day, I discovered that P started rumblestrutting together with M. There is the occasional nose punch from P while I am cleaning their cage, but only if they get into each other's faces. At this point, they sometimes shared hides, so I wasn't too worried.
4-On the 22nd, I discovered a tiny 1 mm nip on M's ears, no blood just a little cut. The two seemed okay together but I got concerned. It seemed that they might be retesting their hierarchy.
5- On the 23rd day (today!), I discovered tiny tufts of hair in their cage in the morning. This worried me, but there were no new wounds. I cleaned out their cage, and they acted nicely together for 1.5h back into their cage. There were no changes made to their setup of 4 hideouts, with always two points of escape, and a clear food zone.
But then suddenly out of nowhere, they began tornado fighting. I did not see what happen, but I did not hear any teeth chattering before this. A good chunk of hair was ripped from P, and M lost bits hair as well; no blood was drawn, but it was more hair than I've ever seen from their fights. Mo was chattering her teeth after that, while P hid in fear. In great panic, I blocked them both and set a divider up between their cage, while I got someone to supervise them both for floor time. On the ground, after they calmed down they did not act aggressively towards each other.
6-I have now placed them back into their cage with a divider between them where they can smell and see each other. M seems to want to go back to P, while P snoozes away from her.
Currently, I do not know what is the best thing I should do for them. I've been worrying for the first 2 weeks, and after that, had genuinely assumed their bond was alright. But it seems like it's still shaky, I'm back in panic mode. I'm worried that their bond was already bad after the tornado fights, and I did them wrong by assuming the scab wasn't blood already drawn. I fear that they hold grudges against each other.
I also think that P could be in her season and M is a teen, but I do not know what to do from this point on. To be honest, I currently do not trust my girls because they act so well together and do not always show the usual dominance signs before they fight. The lack of slow dominance interaction before a fight confuses me. The quick escalation to full blown fur yanking scares me the most.
I would really appreciate if someone could let me know what the next best course of action for my girls. I just don't know if I'm being a bad owner. I don't know if separation is the best for them. And I do not know if I should keep trying to bond them. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and I appreciate any advice you have.
