Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
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Sterile Cystitis
- Thread starter Zehuri
- Start date
Hi
This is the typical maroon tint of a natural dye called porphyrin, which is characteristic for the onset of a urinary tract infection (both bacterial or sterile) and for any sterile cystitis flares.
Blood can be present but doesn't have to in every pee. It takes a whole lot more of it than you think to actually discolour urine. Blood is usually a much brighter red to pink shade, drying into mid-brown tones but you rarely see it in infectious pees.
For more information on sterile cystitis, you may find this link here helpful: Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones
Please bookmark this thread so you can easily find it for any further questions and concerns along the way. It helps everybody if we can keep ongoing cases together; especially as we are not part of social media and do not rely on generating lots of new threads.
Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
thank you.
She had a few urine samples taken last month when you couldn’t physically see blood but when tested it showed traces of blood.
But since the end of March every few days you can now see blood in the urine.
The vet has advised Cerenia to be give in addition to Dog Metacam, whilst her urine sample has been sent off for culture
Cerenia seems to be increasingly used by vets to help with the discomfort.
Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
@Wiebke
. Since her weight loss started in February the lowest she’s been is 827g the highest she’s been is 875g. Her weight on average is staying at 850g
. She used to be 950g on average before her weight loss began in February when she then got diagnosed with Sterile Cystitis. The fact her weight isn’t going into the 900g range does that mean she’s still in pain?
She turned approximately 4 in April so still young.
She’s been on recovery food since February, approx 8ml twice a day. She’s always been eating her hay, pellets and vegetables and dried forage she’s never completely stopped eating or shown signs of a reduced appetite.
Exotic vet said to give Emeraid to support her weight but as it’s not going any higher as in into the 900g after several months should I stop this now and see how her weight does without it?
The fact her weight isn’t back in the 900g range does that mean she’s still in pain? Or is 850g her new normal.
She’s getting:
* Emeraid Critical Care 8ml twice a day
* Dog Metacam 0.5ml twice a day
* Johnson’s Liquid Glucosamine once a day
* Cerenia 0.1ml twice a day (started last month after noticing she still seemed in pain sometimes hunch after being handled, despite being on the dog Metacam)
Thank you
. Since her weight loss started in February the lowest she’s been is 827g the highest she’s been is 875g. Her weight on average is staying at 850g
. She used to be 950g on average before her weight loss began in February when she then got diagnosed with Sterile Cystitis. The fact her weight isn’t going into the 900g range does that mean she’s still in pain?
She turned approximately 4 in April so still young.
She’s been on recovery food since February, approx 8ml twice a day. She’s always been eating her hay, pellets and vegetables and dried forage she’s never completely stopped eating or shown signs of a reduced appetite.
Exotic vet said to give Emeraid to support her weight but as it’s not going any higher as in into the 900g after several months should I stop this now and see how her weight does without it?
The fact her weight isn’t back in the 900g range does that mean she’s still in pain? Or is 850g her new normal.
She’s getting:
* Emeraid Critical Care 8ml twice a day
* Dog Metacam 0.5ml twice a day
* Johnson’s Liquid Glucosamine once a day
* Cerenia 0.1ml twice a day (started last month after noticing she still seemed in pain sometimes hunch after being handled, despite being on the dog Metacam)
Thank you
4 years old is the lower end of the average life span, so while she isn’t old as such, she also isn’t young.
Once they start to get to this age range, putting lost weight back on can become harder and some older piggies never get back to pre-illness weights. Instead they maintain at a new lower ‘normal’.
Your piggy’s weight sounds to be stable, which is good news. Personally I don’t think I would continue with syringe feeding at this point - at only 16ml a day she isn’t getting much at all anyway - and would instead monitor her to see if she can maintain her weight herself. If she loses weight (beyond normal fluctuation) or loses appetite during a flare then you can of course step back in
Once they start to get to this age range, putting lost weight back on can become harder and some older piggies never get back to pre-illness weights. Instead they maintain at a new lower ‘normal’.
Your piggy’s weight sounds to be stable, which is good news. Personally I don’t think I would continue with syringe feeding at this point - at only 16ml a day she isn’t getting much at all anyway - and would instead monitor her to see if she can maintain her weight herself. If she loses weight (beyond normal fluctuation) or loses appetite during a flare then you can of course step back in
Ramia
Teenage Guinea Pig
My CBS boy was down after an ear infection, and for two months he had critical care and at first it helped but then I became frustrated with him not gaining weight.
I weaned him off the critical care slowly, and in 5 months he was back to almost his original weight.
I think he was full on critical care and not eating as much hay as he should.
But if yours is a pain issue it might not work.
I'm sure an expert will be along shortly.
I weaned him off the critical care slowly, and in 5 months he was back to almost his original weight.
I think he was full on critical care and not eating as much hay as he should.
But if yours is a pain issue it might not work.
I'm sure an expert will be along shortly.
Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
@Wiebke
When a GP has a Sterile Cystitis flareup have you ever seen a few drops of blood in the urine now and again?
The blood is not daily or several times a day. It’s intermittent.
Happend on the 29th March
Happened 2 times in April and I thought it could be some fresh forage I gave (rasberry , strawberry and bramble leaves)
The blood this month in May has appeared so far 3 times.
4th and 5th May
On the 4th May I gave 2 small pieces of a dried hazel leaf. Her Metacam was also running low, I was waiting for a new bottle to arrive so on the 3rd and 4th May instead of her usual 0.5ml of Metacam twice a day she got 0.3ml twice a day. She was back on 0.5ml Metacam from the evening of 6th May. So not sure what caused the blood, the dried hazel leaf (2 small pieces) or the temporary lower Metacam dose.
16th May
Then I spotted blood today (16th May) when I spot cleaned in the morning. I spot clean twice a day. Have attached photo, of blood found.
On the evening of the 14th May I gave Nuri 0.4ml Metacam and on the 15th May morning and evening I gave 0.4ml Metacam instead of her 0.5ml dose. I wanted to see how she does on a slightly lower dose as she’s been on 0.5ml for a few months now.
Cause?
Trying to figure out the link is it reducing the Metacam dose slightly or could fresh forage or some new dried forage like hazel leaves be the cause.
She gets Rosewood Naturals Fields of Forage daily for the past year. Fresh forage is only given between Spring - Autumn but wary now as I don’t know if that’s causing the blood.
When a GP has a Sterile Cystitis flareup have you ever seen a few drops of blood in the urine now and again?
The blood is not daily or several times a day. It’s intermittent.
Happend on the 29th March
Happened 2 times in April and I thought it could be some fresh forage I gave (rasberry , strawberry and bramble leaves)
The blood this month in May has appeared so far 3 times.
4th and 5th May
On the 4th May I gave 2 small pieces of a dried hazel leaf. Her Metacam was also running low, I was waiting for a new bottle to arrive so on the 3rd and 4th May instead of her usual 0.5ml of Metacam twice a day she got 0.3ml twice a day. She was back on 0.5ml Metacam from the evening of 6th May. So not sure what caused the blood, the dried hazel leaf (2 small pieces) or the temporary lower Metacam dose.
16th May
Then I spotted blood today (16th May) when I spot cleaned in the morning. I spot clean twice a day. Have attached photo, of blood found.
On the evening of the 14th May I gave Nuri 0.4ml Metacam and on the 15th May morning and evening I gave 0.4ml Metacam instead of her 0.5ml dose. I wanted to see how she does on a slightly lower dose as she’s been on 0.5ml for a few months now.
Cause?
Trying to figure out the link is it reducing the Metacam dose slightly or could fresh forage or some new dried forage like hazel leaves be the cause.
She gets Rosewood Naturals Fields of Forage daily for the past year. Fresh forage is only given between Spring - Autumn but wary now as I don’t know if that’s causing the blood.
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Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
Thank you that’s very helpful. I’ll stop it and see how she does without it.
Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
I’ve just been doing it for a few months a
Glad he’s better!
I started giving it in February after she got diagnosed with SC and at the time her main symptom was her weight loss. She’s never gone off her food (pellets,hay, vegetables, dried forage) It’s just been to help her weight but it’s pretty much staying around 850g. And she’s on Dog Metacam twice a day and Cerenia twice a day.
Glad he’s better!
I started giving it in February after she got diagnosed with SC and at the time her main symptom was her weight loss. She’s never gone off her food (pellets,hay, vegetables, dried forage) It’s just been to help her weight but it’s pretty much staying around 850g. And she’s on Dog Metacam twice a day and Cerenia twice a day.
Hi
Are you still seeing little bits of sheer blood or only of red pees? In a sow, there is always the possibility that any sheer bleeding could come from the reproductive tract but most pictures in this thread show rather diluted red urine. But red drops in the urine could be sheer blood. If you have concerns, please speak to your vet. It could come from the urinary or the reproductive tract in sows.
You can try to reduce the metacam and see whether the weight is staying stable once you have established that she is eating enough on her own to keep the weight stable. Otherwise you can offer a little optional feed; this is called top up feeding which is normally a stage between serious support feeding and fully eating themselves. If needed, mix in with some of her favourite food in a bowl outside the cage so you can control how much she is eating and control by weighing whether it is making a positive difference over several days. It gives you more control over whether she can really support herself or not and is much less stressful than syringe feeding.
Fingers firmly crossed for your girl. Please withdraw any painkillers only after her weight is stable but kick in at full strength with any flare and double the glucosamine dose for 2-3 days in order to cap the flare as quickly as possible. The problem with sterile IC that it comes on the whole bandwidth so you have to find our individually how low you can go with the painkiller/glucosamine maintenance and how high you have to go during flare-ups.
Once the weight is stable, you could also try whether the odd bloody drops stop if you up the maintenance painkiller and glucosamine - it could be a sign that the inter-flares base medication is too low. You have to work this out by trial and error to find out what works and what not so you can search further once you have excluded some things you can try at home.
Are you still seeing little bits of sheer blood or only of red pees? In a sow, there is always the possibility that any sheer bleeding could come from the reproductive tract but most pictures in this thread show rather diluted red urine. But red drops in the urine could be sheer blood. If you have concerns, please speak to your vet. It could come from the urinary or the reproductive tract in sows.
You can try to reduce the metacam and see whether the weight is staying stable once you have established that she is eating enough on her own to keep the weight stable. Otherwise you can offer a little optional feed; this is called top up feeding which is normally a stage between serious support feeding and fully eating themselves. If needed, mix in with some of her favourite food in a bowl outside the cage so you can control how much she is eating and control by weighing whether it is making a positive difference over several days. It gives you more control over whether she can really support herself or not and is much less stressful than syringe feeding.
Fingers firmly crossed for your girl. Please withdraw any painkillers only after her weight is stable but kick in at full strength with any flare and double the glucosamine dose for 2-3 days in order to cap the flare as quickly as possible. The problem with sterile IC that it comes on the whole bandwidth so you have to find our individually how low you can go with the painkiller/glucosamine maintenance and how high you have to go during flare-ups.
Once the weight is stable, you could also try whether the odd bloody drops stop if you up the maintenance painkiller and glucosamine - it could be a sign that the inter-flares base medication is too low. You have to work this out by trial and error to find out what works and what not so you can search further once you have excluded some things you can try at home.
Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
It’s drops of blood but I’ve found it most of the time in a urine patch, if that makes sense.
Hence I’m assuming it’s coming out when she urinates.
It’s weird when it’s happened is a few days following a reduced Metacam dose or fresh forage or a new dried forage has been given.
Not sure if this all just coincidence.
Her previous urine samples prior to the blood physically showing showed traces of blood but at that time it wasn’t physically visible.
Only started to see drops of physical blood from the end of March. So far it’s happened the once on the 29th March, 4th April, 8th April, 5th May, 6th May and 16th May.
Trying to establish a link.
At the end of April a urine sample was taken and cytology and microbiology was done. Cytology picked up nothing out of the ordinary. microbiology picked up low traces of a bacteria which our vet said could just be from cross contamination.
So have just been monitoring her.
Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
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Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
The Guinea Pig with Sterile Cystitis she’s the submissive one.
If she’s in more pain she then challenges our dominant pig, who in turn becomes overly dominant towards our normally submissive pig.
Once I up the pain medication for our submisisve pig she’s always back to being submissive and our dominant pig is also no longer being overly dominant towards her.
Our submissive pig seemed to have a Sterile Cystitis flareup two day ago so upped her pain relief as usual. However this time have noticed she now seems to be the dominant pig and her sister (the normally dominant one) is now the one making submissive sounds.
Is this something to be concerned about?
If she’s in more pain she then challenges our dominant pig, who in turn becomes overly dominant towards our normally submissive pig.
Once I up the pain medication for our submisisve pig she’s always back to being submissive and our dominant pig is also no longer being overly dominant towards her.
Our submissive pig seemed to have a Sterile Cystitis flareup two day ago so upped her pain relief as usual. However this time have noticed she now seems to be the dominant pig and her sister (the normally dominant one) is now the one making submissive sounds.
Is this something to be concerned about?
Zehuri
Junior Guinea Pig
@Wiebke previous photos of blood from March and April
Thhe vet said to give Emeraid no more than twice a day as a top up feed, as she’s still eating, pellets , hay and fresh veg and dried forage as normal.
I give her the Emeraid in a bowl rather than syringe as she was getting stressed by that.
She’s been on Emeraid 8 - 10ml twice a day since the end of February as a top up, it’s not done much to increase her weight as in its still sticking to around 850g whereas prior to February she’s was on average 950g. So I’ll stop the Emeraid and see how her weight does. I’m weighing her twice a week at present.
I didn’t know I could up the glucosamine when she has a flareup. That’s good to know. I’ve been following the 0.4ml per kg guideline for the Johnson’s Extra Strength Liquid Glucosamine. Good to know I can increase the dosage during a flare up.
She started Dog Metacam twice a day since the end of February. I’ve tried three times to lower the dose, but within half a day to a day she starts to show signs she’s not okay. She stops eating her recovery food, starts challenging her sister who is the dominant pig, or looks hunched after handling. Once I’ve put her dose back to 0.5ml again twice a day she goes back to her normal self within half a day. Even though her weight is currently sitting around 850g so is stable, (used to be 950g on average prior to SC symptoms starting) I can’t seem to fully stop or reduce her twice daily Metacam dose.
So It looks like she may just have to be on Dog Metacam at 0.5ml daily for the foreseeable.
Do some pigs with SC have to be on daily pain relief for the rest of their life?
The Cerenia twice a day 0.1ml dose was started a month ago as I felt she was still in discomfort, particularly after being handled. Not sure if it’s worth stopping that at all.
They only get fresh forage between spring - autumn. I started to give some fresh forage like a few leaves of rasberry or strawberry or nettle. Can that cause a flareup for SC? Should I just give one type so Rasberry leaves and two leaves and then wait for 4 days to see if there’s any blood? Or do things like fresh forage not cause a SC flare up?
Sorry just trying to learn as new to all this.
Hi
No, it isn't, as long as there are no hostile face-offs, serious teeth chattering, chases etc. .
You may find these behavioural guide links here very helpful. You can also find them in the green field at the top of our Behaviour section:
- A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours (the quick version)
- Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context (a comprehensive in-depth look at the most comprehensive collection of behaviours you can find and how to interpret them in their actual context)
Hi
This looks to me like some rather mild, very watery porphyrin stained pees to me as they are very typical for sterile cystitis flares. The urine can test positive for blood or not but the urine is too dilute for any major quantity. It takes a lot more blood in the urine to actually stain it red than people think!
Is your girl a naturally consistent strong drinker or has she suddenly started to drink a lot more?
All About Drinking, Bottles and Dehydration