Sterile Cystitis

[Zehuri]

Found some hard small dark solid pieces stuck on a bath mat and pulled them off with some effort, you can see the staining they left on the bath mat.

Never come across hard pieces like this.

I sprayed them and they stained red/pink and still very solid not broken down.

Why is it hard? Is it a crystal?

Never come across anything like this before.

Thank you

 

[Wiebke]

Found some hard small dark solid pieces stuck on a bath mat and pulled them off with some effort, you can see the staining they left on the bath mat.

Never come across hard pieces like this.

I sprayed them and they stained red/pink and still very solid not broken down.

Why is it hard? Is it a crystal?

Never come across anything like this before.

Thank you

Please accept that I can only guess that they could be crystals but that I cannot confirm that just from a picture. If you have concerns please speak to your vet.
Also always speak to your vet about any changes in medication. We are an owners forum. I have no personal experience with cerenia so I cannot comment on it.

 

[Mon59]

Blood or red spotting like this needs further investigation. I don’t know how this can be done from looking at your pictures.

All this talk of sterile cystitis and supplements from the experts is very interesting from afar, but you should go with your gut instinct. I’ve had this with three sows now and the outcome was bad in every case because I waited for developments. The last from an exotic expert who went on about UTI’s and eventually found an infection from a suspect contaminated sample containing E. coli. Antibiotics for more wasted weeks whilst the blood flowed in urine. Told the vet . ‘Keep to the antibiotics’

Developed into clots which is as much information as I can bear to disclose here.

Unfortunately behaviour and eating is unhelpful, but are there any new peculiar habits like new squeals . Any sounds on urinating ? Head at a funny looking angle. Nervous about being picked up ? Smelly urine ? Are you able to observe for a hour or so off and on ?

Back to the Vets if you can afford and focus in the bladder . Any sounds on expressing urine which the Vet should be able to do ?

 

[Zehuri]

Blood or red spotting like this needs further investigation. I don’t know how this can be done from looking at your pictures.

All this talk of sterile cystitis and supplements from the experts is very interesting from afar, but you should go with your gut instinct. I’ve had this with three sows now and the outcome was bad in every case because I waited for developments. The last from an exotic expert who went on about UTI’s and eventually found an infection from a suspect contaminated sample containing E. coli. Antibiotics for more wasted weeks whilst the blood flowed in urine. Told the vet . ‘Keep to the antibiotics’

Developed into clots which is as much information as I can bear to disclose here.

Unfortunately behaviour and eating is unhelpful, but are there any new peculiar habits like new squeals . Any sounds on urinating ? Head at a funny looking angle. Nervous about being picked up ? Smelly urine ? Are you able to observe for a hour or so off and on ?

Back to the Vets if you can afford and focus in the bladder . Any sounds on expressing urine which the Vet should be able to do ?

No, nothing new she’s still eating and drinking and wheeling and running around and popcorning.

I spot clean twice a day so I notice any of this staining which I categorise as her having a flareup and also when she becomes the dominant pig which most of the time happens when she has a flareup I’ve found.

I know this thread is really long so not sure if you’ve seen all the posts. Her anyone started in Feb, with weight loss and after doing antibiotics and several urine tests which showed blood traces but never physical staining it was rules she had S Cystitis. She also had an ultrasound twice and had a n every once.

It wasn’t until April that the I started to physically see staining pink/red. Theexirc vet is aware. They did a urine sample but nothing of concern came back. I found giving her even two leaves of fresh rasberry that she had in the past now causes her staining. Same with fresh bramble etc, so she won’t get that anymore.

From what @Wiebke has shared with me is that S Cystitis in nature can flareup even without a trigger it’s just a part of the condition. So whilst I’ve tried to cut out any triggers like fresh forage for her and any fresh vegetables that’s not her norm she can still have a flareup.

Sorry you had a difficult experience.

I’m not sure what this dried dark stuff is it’s really hard but obiusly left a pink/ red stain. I’ll contact the vets about it to see if they think it could be a crystal. I know GP can pass stones sometimes no idea about crystals.

 

[Zehuri]

@Mon59

Prior Feb before her S Cystitis started her weight was around 950g.


Her weight has normally been around 850g the past two months so it’s been stable. Sometimes it’s been 10 - 20g more. I know if the bladder is full or empty at the time of weighing that can cause a fluctuation.

Her weight will unlikely go back to what it was before (950g).

She’s weighed twice a week, first thing before pellets or any fresh veg.

Recent Weights:

Tuesday 3rd June 862g
Saturday 7th June 856g
Tuesday 10th June 867g
Saturday 14th June 858g
Tuesday 17th June 876g
Sunday 22nd June 856g
Tuesday 24th June 846g

The staining she gets comes out with her urine, there’s never any hard particles in it like I found this morning so I’ll ring the vets about this.

 

[Zehuri]

Please accept that I can only guess that they could be crystals but that I cannot confirm that just from a picture. If you have concerns please speak to your vet.
Also always speak to your vet about any changes in medication. We are an owners forum. I have no personal experience with cerenia so I cannot comment on it.

@Wiebke

Thank you very much I shall ask the vet regarding both things, much appreciated.

Thank you for your ongoing help and advice.

 

[Zehuri]

Blood or red spotting like this needs further investigation. I don’t know how this can be done from looking at your pictures.

All this talk of sterile cystitis and supplements from the experts is very interesting from afar, but you should go with your gut instinct. I’ve had this with three sows now and the outcome was bad in every case because I waited for developments. The last from an exotic expert who went on about UTI’s and eventually found an infection from a suspect contaminated sample containing E. coli. Antibiotics for more wasted weeks whilst the blood flowed in urine. Told the vet . ‘Keep to the antibiotics’

Developed into clots which is as much information as I can bear to disclose here.

Unfortunately behaviour and eating is unhelpful, but are there any new peculiar habits like new squeals . Any sounds on urinating ? Head at a funny looking angle. Nervous about being picked up ? Smelly urine ? Are you able to observe for a hour or so off and on ?

Back to the Vets if you can afford and focus in the bladder . Any sounds on expressing urine which the Vet should be able to do ?

@Mon59

Forgot to add no smelly urine urine or new sounds, or anything odd.

Sorry my original reply had so many typos was typing too fast and forgot to proof read.

She had 2 ultrasounds spaced two weeks apart and she had one x ray.

The x ray showed a very small amount of mineralisation on the bladder wall.
The X-rays showed some thickening of the bladder wall.

This was back in February.

Since then she’s now on high strength glucosamine daily, twice daily dog Metacam and twice daily Cerenia

 

[Wiebke]

@Zehuri

Please accept that I won't be available for answers for at least a week from now.

 

[Zehuri]

I wonder if this is a plug and not a stone or crystal. And it’s got stuck on the bath mat so has solidified.

 

[Wiebke]

Sorry, unless you have those clumps analysed, anything anybody can do is speculate.

Please accept that I am off the forum for at least week from now on.

 

[Zehuri]

@Piggies&buns

I know Wiebke is away which is why I have tagged yourself.


Found some staining from our S Cystitis pig this morning.


Just now (our 2 sows) have just finished their playpen pen time, I check on them periodically when they’re in the playpen it’s in the same room as their normal enclosure.

Put them back in their enclosure and saw that where our non S Cystitis pig had been lying the times I’d gone to check on them, there was a wee stain and drops of red.

I hadn’t seen our Cystitis pig that area, unless she went there when I wasn’t there.


So I wonder is this actual blood? It seems to have come from when whoever urinated as you can see in the photo there’s a large damp patch.

 

[Mon59]

Please please please.

Get the ‘cystitis’ pig to the vets if you can . Poor thing.

I don’t like the look of these photos.

Only being kind because of my experiences .

I really hope all turns out ok.

 

[Zehuri]

Please please please.

Get the ‘cystitis’ pig to the vets if you can . Poor thing.

I don’t like the look of these photos.

Only being kind because of my experiences .

I really hope all turns out ok.

Sorry just seen your message!

I rang and spoke to the receptionist on Friday who spoke to the vet about the hard clump I found and if they wanted me to bring it in but they said they couldn’t do anything with it to analyse.

As the pig with Cystitis was acting fine, and her behaviour was normal and she was eating etc they said to monitor.


Today:


The pig who has S Cystitis was acting odd this morning.

Didn’t come running for her dried forage. So I tried to hand feed her she didn’t want any.

Her Metacam which she goes crazy for she refused.

Fresh hay she didn’t want.

I gave her some cucumber and she had the majority but left some which is odd.

She’s never acted like this.

So took her to the vets with her sister.

I saw them both at 01:00am this morning and she was fine moving around, eating hay, drinking water.

Not sure what happened between then and this morning.

Exotic vet has said that she’s showing signs of dehydration, there are gut sounds but a bit quiet.

Given her some fluids intravenously and Tramadol. They couldn’t get a urine sample from her and didn’t want to sedate her to do so.

Her weight is stable.

She’s been given the following medications:

- Tramadol every 8 hours
- Cisapride every 8 hours
- Recovery food 10ml - 15ml 2 to 3 times a day as she’s got loss of appetite

Her normal medication/ supplement for S Cystitis will continue:
- Dog Metacam twice a day
- High strength glucosamine once a day

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this. Glad you have for her seen.

Make sure to give at least 40ml but ideally at least 60ml of syringe feed while she isn’t eating hay.

I hope she is ok

 

[Zehuri]

I’m sorry to hear this. Glad you have for her seen.

Make sure to give at least 40ml but ideally at least 60ml of syringe feed while she isn’t eating hay.

I hope she is ok

Thank you very much.

She’s never had loss of appetite ever.


The exotic vet said to do the recovery food every eight hours 10ml - 15ml per feed.

But I was thinking if it should be more frequent.

You’ve mentioned 40ml - 60ml of recovery formula is that in a day?

With the extra medication she’s now on (Tramadol and Cisapride) and the Recovery Formula should I expect to see improvement within 48 hours or should there be some change within 24 hours? Just so I know how soon she needs to go back to the exotic vets.

 

[Piggies&buns]

You give as much recovery feed as is needed to keep her weight stable at each morning weight check.
So you aim to give at least 60ml per 24 hours (40ml is the absolute minimum to keep them alive when they aren’t eating any hay themselves); as a guide, a healthy piggy eats around the equivalent of 100ml per day and there have been some members who have had to syringe that much day to keep weight stable.
The amount a piggy takes per sitting depends on how poorly they are and how much their appetite is affected. The less they take each time, the more unwell, then the more sittings you need to do to get that 60ml into them over a 24 hour period.

10ml is a good amount at each feeding so you’d be looking at doing around six feeds per day (assuming 60ml is enough to keep her stable; so it could be more needed)

It would be hard to say with certainty - it depends how poorly she is feeling and how she responds to the meds - but it would be good to keep in touch with the vet is you haven’t seen any change in 48 hours

 

[Mon59]

Well done on seeing the vet so promptly. It’s not cheap either . You can’t do anything more than monitor . Especially strange behaviour. Hard to explain but I’m sure you know your pig.

Any more of these nasty clots or whatever they were ?

I’m not as expert as some on here but I was let down by my Vet who is supposed to be an expert . Writes for. A GP magazine . Went on about infections when it was something else ! My poor Olivia suffered unnecessarily after £500 vets bills and supposedly scans and everything.

Sorry to go on about it.

Watch for the clots I say, and make a fuss for your little one. I’m sure all will be well.

Sending you my kindest wishes .

 

[Zehuri]

Well done on seeing the vet so promptly. It’s not cheap either . You can’t do anything more than monitor . Especially strange behaviour. Hard to explain but I’m sure you know your pig.

Any more of these nasty clots or whatever they were ?

I’m not as expert as some on here but I was let down by my Vet who is supposed to be an expert . Writes for. A GP magazine . Went on about infections when it was something else ! My poor Olivia suffered unnecessarily after £500 vets bills and supposedly scans and everything.

Sorry to go on about it.

Watch for the clots I say, and make a fuss for your little one. I’m sure all will be well.

Sending you my kindest wishes .

Thank you so much.

Never experienced gut stasis before but understand it poses a very real danger for them, so knew she needed to go to the vets.

I mentioned to the exotic vet about the hard clump thing and she’s said it could have been a blood clot maybe. No way of knowing as they said they can’t do any tests to analyse what I’d found.

I’ve seen her eat some hay, in the past few hours but will be keeping up the recovery food as Piggiesanbuns has suggested.

Hopefully she starts to go back to her normal self within 48 hours or start to see some improvement.

So sorry to hear about your experiences and about Olivia. Sounds like you did everything could.

Thank you both for your help and support!

 

[Mon59]

Maybe this hot weather making her feel poorly also . It’s making me miserable.

My two very subdued today . Up to 28 degrees in their room. Windows shut with blinds down. Fan on.

Luckily I'm just retired, so can spend all day on changing frozen bottles in socks and hydrating . A bum bath was needed at 4pm. The funny thing is the big boar far less heat bothered than the ‘little’ one . 100g difference between them .

Do you have her doing a wee on your lap ? I got 100 small puppy training pads from Amazon quite cheap. Any clots there and I’m straight to the vet now.

Thanks for good wishes about poor Olivia. Still very upset after 2 months . . After weeks of urine clots and 5 vet visits.i told the Vet to take it seriously but the antibiotics just mounted up . you get the picture without being graphic. Load of rubbish about spaying her when she did not have cysts. Because the vet run out of excuses.


Continued kindest wishes.

 

[Zehuri]

@Mon59

Hope the weather has cooled down for you.

After having gut stasis Monday morning,
she was given Tramadol and Cisapride to take every 8 hours and recovery food to help her.

Monday evening she started to eat again and has been doing since and acting normal which is fantastic.

The vet has advised to just keep giving Tramadol and the Cisapride every 8 hours until it’s been 5 days, so until Friday.

She has been getting 4 feeds of recovery food since Monday.

This morning her weight is back to normal.

I spot clean their enclosure twice a day and only found that strange hard substance once. Never seen anything like it before.

So sorry again to hear about your experience.

 

[Piggies&buns]

@Mon59

Hope the weather has cooled down for you.

After having gut stasis Monday morning,
she was given Tramadol and Cisapride to take every 8 hours and recovery food to help her.

Monday evening she started to eat again and has been doing since and acting normal which is fantastic.

The vet has advised to just keep giving Tramadol and the Cisapride every 8 hours until it’s been 5 days, so until Friday.

She has been getting 4 feeds of recovery food since Monday.

This morning her weight is back to normal.

I spot clean their enclosure twice a day and only found that strange hard substance once. Never seen anything like it before.

So sorry again to hear about your experience.

It sounds like she is heading on the right track

 

[Zehuri]

I do weekly health checks.

For the first time our female guinea pig has crusty nipples

She’s not got any hair loss on her sides.

Should I take her to the vet regarding the crusty nipples?

Her cystitis flared up three days ago and found a few red urine areas throughout the day, but that stopped within 24 hours.

The night before I felt there was a lot of damp aubious areas in their enclosure. I spot clean once/ twice a day. This was only that night, since then it seems back to normal.

 

[Zehuri]

From three days ago when her cystitis flared up. There were a few other clusters but the red stopped appearing within 24 hours.

 

[Wiebke]

I do weekly health checks.

For the first time our female guinea pig has crusty nipples View attachment 281811

She’s not got any hair loss on her sides.

Should I take her to the vet regarding the crusty nipples?

Her cystitis flared up three days ago and found a few red urine areas throughout the day, but that stopped within 24 hours.

The night before I felt there was a lot of damp aubious areas in their enclosure. I spot clean once/ twice a day. This was only that night, since then it seems back to normal.

Hi

You are going to learn your piggy's personal signs of an impending flare. It takes some weeks for things to stabilise so please be patient and keep telling yourself that you are on the right road.

Crusty nipples and seasonal behaviours are the most common visible symptom of hormonally active ovarian cysts. Hair loss etc. is actually a lot less common and appears only in comparatively small minority of cases. The vast majority of ovarian cyst actually goes undetected because they never cause any symptoms or changed behaviour. It is estimated that about 75-80% of sows develop ovarian cysts over the course of their lives but only a minority of them actually cause major problems and need operating.
Sow Problems 'Down Below' (Ovarian Cysts, Super-seasons, Womb Infection, Pregnancy & Mammary Tumours)

I would at this stage not panic and - if you can live with it - concentrate on stabilising the sterile cystitis first. Right now, it is only the very start of an active ovarian cyst and may settle down again; it is not an emergency in any way.
You have got that precious time to line up your potential problems and work your through them one after the other instead of trying to tackle them all at once and drown in stress and panic. It is important that you manage your own stress load as well.
Can you please remind me how old your sow is?

If you start feeling overwhelmed, please take the time to read this very helpful link here: Pet Owners Anxiety - Practical Tips For Sufferers and For Supporters

 

[Zehuri]

Hi

You are going to learn your piggy's personal signs of an impending flare. It takes some weeks for things to stabilise so please be patient and keep telling yourself that you are on the right road.

Crusty nipples and seasonal behaviours are the most common visible symptom of hormonally active ovarian cysts. Hair loss etc. is actually a lot less common and appears only in comparatively small minority of cases. The vast majority of ovarian cyst actually goes undetected because they never cause any symptoms or changed behaviour. It is estimated that about 75-80% of sows develop ovarian cysts over the course of their lives but only a minority of them actually cause major problems and need operating.
Sow Problems 'Down Below' (Ovarian Cysts, Super-seasons, Womb Infection, Pregnancy & Mammary Tumours)

I would at this stage not panic and - if you can live with it - concentrate on stabilising the sterile cystitis first. Right now, it is only the very start of an active ovarian cyst and may settle down again; it is not an emergency in any way.
You have got that precious time to line up your potential problems and work your through them one after the other instead of trying to tackle them all at once and drown in stress and panic. It is important that you manage your own stress load as well.
Can you please remind me how old your sow is?

If you start feeling overwhelmed, please take the time to read this very helpful link here: Pet Owners Anxiety - Practical Tips For Sufferers and For Supporters

I think her sterile cystitis flare has gone down. The red urine spots I was finding only lasted 24 hours. She actually hadn’t any visible red in her urine for nearly three months.

It’s just the crusty nipples I was wondering about and if it’s worth taking her to the vet. She will be approx, 5 at the end of April.

 

[Zehuri]

Do I need to get the crust off or do I just leave it?

If she does have the start of OC I wonder if now would be an easier time to get it diagnosed before it settles down (if it we’re to settle down)?

 

[Wiebke]

Do I need to get the crust off or do I just leave it?

If she does have the start of OC I wonder if now would be an easier time to get it diagnosed before it settles down (if it we’re to settle down)?

If you are taking her to the vet, please leave the crusts on and don't - as far as any vet is concerned - wipe the 'crime scene' and leave them with no symptoms to verify and go on by.
You may also want show the vet the bloody patch so they can assess whether it could have potentially come from the reproductive tract and not the urinary tract.

But you are clearly dealing with a milder form of sterile cystitis.

 

[Zehuri]

If you are taking her to the vet, please leave the crusts on and don't - as far as any vet is concerned - wipe the 'crime scene' and leave them with no symptoms to verify and go on by.
You may also want show the vet the bloody patch so they can assess whether it could have potentially come from the reproductive tract and not the urinary tract.

But you are clearly dealing with a milder form of sterile cystitis.

Thank you very much. Got her booked in tomorrow.

 

[Zehuri]

We have had both girls for two years now, who are related. They are approx 5 years old now.

Both have signs of crystals when we have done urine samples over the past two years and when they urinate on fleece or bath mats it always dries white. Should it be drying white on fleece and bath mats?

One of them had an ultrasound for the first time last week and signs of white (likely calcium) were found on her right kidney. Vet said it's more white than what she would want to see so said she now needs a scan every 6 months.

Our other girl who has S Cystitis has had two ultrasounds in the past on one there was sludge present but after introducing daily chunks of cucumber over the past year that seems to have helped. Her kidneys didn't appear to be showing any signs of white.

We live in a soft water area, according to the United Utilities website there is 7.69 mg of calcium per litre of water. According to the Aqua Cure website the calcium, should be below 60ppm where we are. I have a Brita water jug but never used. Phox Water do different filters that are compatible with a Brita jug. The Clean Pack they do is ideal for general calcium and limescale reduction. Should I try using the Brita jug with the Phox Clean water filter to see if that will help reduce the pees from drying white?
Refillable Maxtra+ Compatible - water filter cartridge

Their diet for the last 18 months:
- 1 Tbsp of Grain Free Science Selective Pellets each daily
- Unlimited Meadow Hay
- Few handfuls daily of Nature's Own Timothy Hay with Dried Carrot Pieces (I remove the dried carrot pieces so have been giving just the hay daily)
- 1 TbSp each of Fields of Gold Dried Forage daily
- 1 Cup of veg a day each: Pepper (green or yellow), chunk of cucumber, 5 corriander stems and half a stick of celery. Two days in the week I swap out the celery for a leaf of Romaine
-2 Pea Flakes each a week

Due to one having sterile cystitis I have to keep their diet in terms of fresh veg consistent to avoid her having a flare up hence the lack of variety and I've been trying to stick to low calcium.

In the summer they will get some fresh forage a small amount so three bramble leaves once a week

I have been giving celery daily as our exotic vet and said it's okay. Should I consider only giving half a stick once a week and instead give them another chunk of cucumber so they're getting more fluid?



Ultimately, I want to keep both girls healthy so any advice on any changes on what I can do to help them would be great.

Thank you

 

[Zehuri]

We have had both girls for two years now, who are related. They are approx 5 years old now.

Both have signs of crystals when we have done urine samples over the past two years and when they urinate on fleece or bath mats it always dries white. Should it be drying white on fleece and bath mats?

One of them had an ultrasound for the first time last week and signs of white (likely calcium) were found on her right kidney. Vet said it's more white than what she would want to see so said she now needs a scan every 6 months.

Our other girl who has S Cystitis has had two ultrasounds in the past on one there was sludge present but after introducing daily chunks of cucumber over the past year that seems to have helped. Her kidneys didn't appear to be showing any signs of white.

We live in a soft water area, according to the United Utilities website there is 7.69 mg of calcium per litre of water. According to the Aqua Cure website the calcium, should be below 60ppm where we are. I have a Brita water jug but never used. Phox Water do different filters that are compatible with a Brita jug. The Clean Pack they do is ideal for general calcium and limescale reduction. Should I try using the Brita jug with the Phox Clean water filter to see if that will help reduce the pees from drying white?
Refillable Maxtra+ Compatible - water filter cartridge

Their diet for the last 18 months:
- 1 Tbsp of Grain Free Science Selective Pellets each daily
- Unlimited Meadow Hay
- Few handfuls daily of Nature's Own Timothy Hay with Dried Carrot Pieces (I remove the dried carrot pieces so have been giving just the hay daily)
- 1 TbSp each of Fields of Gold Dried Forage daily
- 1 Cup of veg a day each: Pepper (green or yellow), chunk of cucumber, 5 corriander stems and half a stick of celery. Two days in the week I swap out the celery for a leaf of Romaine
-2 Pea Flakes each a week

Due to one having sterile cystitis I have to keep their diet in terms of fresh veg consistent to avoid her having a flare up hence the lack of variety and I've been trying to stick to low calcium.

In the summer they will get some fresh forage a small amount so three bramble leaves once a week

I have been giving celery daily as our exotic vet and said it's okay. Should I consider only giving half a stick once a week and instead give them another chunk of cucumber so they're getting more fluid?



Ultimately, I want to keep both girls healthy so any advice on any changes on what I can do to help them would be great.

Thank you

Here are the photos of the white I’m seeing dry on fleece and bath mats.