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TheAurora

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I'm probably about to become the most hated person on this forum...

And I'd just like to say that I've realised the majority of the people on this forum are much better people than me... kinder, more patient, supportive, loving, helpful...

But...

There are threads appearing on this forum at the moment that are really breaking my heart. There are things being said about guinea pigs which are just desperately distressing.

Being honest is good, and it means people get the support they need.

But surely... SURELY... if you don't like your pet, they are going to know on some level. Even if you take care of their every need, they are going to know you don't love them? And there are guinea pigs being criticised for, well, being guinea pigs!

I realise I'm going to get absolutely slammed for this, but I've been writing and deleting responses for ages and I just wanted to say something.
 
I know what you mean.
But I do think it's good that people can talk openly about if they're struggling with their piggies , because it's likely other people may be feeling the same.

I do, however, think that we should all remember piggies all have their own personalities just like us humans. Some love being cuddled and petting and being cosy on their laps but other piggies, like my Beans, isn't that way inclined. She loves getting a little pet and a hug but not for too long and only on her terms. If she didn't want to be picked up she'll headbutt me out the way and I respect that. I don't care that she's a grumpy pig I love her anyway, and I get extra affection from Toast :P:love:
 
Of course an animal knows if you don't like them. But what they don't do is analyse it and worry about it like we would. And there's a vital difference between 'like' and 'love'.... These owners are being honest and saying their are struggling which we should absolutely respect and support but they love their pets deeply which is why they are on here asking for advice. If they truly didn't care for them then they would be doing something very different. It is possible to love something or someone without liking them at that exact moment. We all have times when we don't 'like' our other half or our children or our parents or our dog but that doesn't mean we love them any less!

As for hating.... There's too much of that in the world to be tolerating that here. Opinions are welcome and differ from person to person and as long as they are expressed in a way that isn't aggressive, hurtful, blaming or antagonistic there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone :) We all do things and think things a little differently. That's what makes us individuals just like our piggies: some are loving, some are noisy some are grumpy and some are downright obnoxious but they are all just being themselves :D
 
I'm probably about to become the most hated person on this forum...

And I'd just like to say that I've realised the majority of the people on this forum are much better people than me... kinder, more patient, supportive, loving, helpful...

But...

There are threads appearing on this forum at the moment that are really breaking my heart. There are things being said about guinea pigs which are just desperately distressing.

Being honest is good, and it means people get the support they need.

But surely... SURELY... if you don't like your pet, they are going to know on some level. Even if you take care of their every need, they are going to know you don't love them? And there are guinea pigs being criticised for, well, being guinea pigs!

I realise I'm going to get absolutely slammed for this, but I've been writing and deleting responses for ages and I just wanted to say something.
I don't think that is hugely helpful to be honest. The forum is great for promoting openess about all aspects of guinea pig care - the good, the bad and ugly (certainly smelly!) - I believe some are less open? And it allows ideas to be raised eg if underlying illness is causing behavioural changes. Sharing ideas / being allowed to explore negative feelings might bring someone round to see things / guinea pig behaviour in a different light.
 
Of course an animal knows if you don't like them. But what they don't do is analyse it and worry about it like we would. And there's a vital difference between 'like' and 'love'.... These owners are being honest and saying their are struggling which we should absolutely respect and support but they love their pets deeply which is why they are on here asking for advice. If they truly didn't care for them then they would be doing something very different. It is possible to love something or someone without liking them at that exact moment. We all have times when we don't 'like' our other half or our children or our parents or our dog but that doesn't mean we love them any less!

As for hating.... There's too much of that in the world to be tolerating that here. Opinions are welcome and differ from person to person and as long as they are expressed in a way that isn't aggressive, hurtful, blaming or antagonistic there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone :) We all do things and think things a little differently. That's what makes us individuals just like our piggies: some are loving, some are noisy some are grumpy and some are downright obnoxious but they are all just being themselves :D

I understand what you are saying, and your response is very considered.

I think it's that word obnoxious which hurts me so much... but hearing it used in the way you are explaining perhaps I'm assigning a meaning/aggression/dislike which isn't implied (just in my own mind when I read it).

I think caring for Casran has made me so sensitive. I'd give my life for a little more time with him... and all his faults. Ha x
 
I understand what you are saying, and your response is very considered.

I think it's that word obnoxious which hurts me so much... but hearing it used in the way you are explaining perhaps I'm assigning a meaning/aggression/dislike which isn't implied (just in my own mind when I read it).

I think caring for Casran has made me so sensitive. I'd give my life for a little more time with him... and all his faults. Ha x
I wasn't at all suggesting you were any of those things! Your post was very calm and considered but we have had many occasions before on this forum over the years where things were not so well explained and things have been said that are hurtful. It was more a reminder to others not to go there than a criticism of you so very sorry if it sounded that way... Not my intention at all!
 
I wasn't at all suggesting you were any of those things! Your post was very calm and considered but we have had many occasions before on this forum over the years where things were not so well explained and things have been said that are hurtful. It was more a reminder to others not to go there than a criticism of you so very sorry if it sounded that way... Not my intention at all!

Awww no @MerryPip I really liked what you said... it made me think about things a bit differently x
 
"I think caring for Casran has made me so sensitive. I'd give my life for a little more time with him... and all his faults."

I am sure you have hit the nail on the head there. Like you, I have a very poorly piggie on borrowed time and I am extra tired and sensitive as a result. Our piggies dying is distressing, someone being frustrated shouldn't be. Time for chocolate and a piggie cuddle I say! :)
 
"I think caring for Casran has made me so sensitive. I'd give my life for a little more time with him... and all his faults."

I am sure you have hit the nail on the head there. Like you, I have a very poorly piggie on borrowed time and I am extra tired and sensitive as a result. Our piggies dying is distressing, someone being frustrated shouldn't be. Time for chocolate and a piggie cuddle I say! :)
I'm going to join that party too... Poorly piggies do make everything seem harder and time is always precious. We all need to make the most of it while we can. x
 
I know how you feel sadly as my gorgeous H boy is in his twilight days and hours of life. Sadly we are going to have to make a decision about him soon as his time is getting near and I can't leave him to suffer :(

It makes you wonder why we do it ... over and over again ... fall in love with these little fluffballs who own our hearts before we know it. And all the time we know, there is going to come a day when all is pain.

I guess the happiness and love and wonderful times in between make it all worth it. And no one can take them away.

I'm so sorry you are facing this decision and sadness as well.

Big Hugs x
 
Everything hurts @MerryPip and @lauraboara ... everything :-(
Sorry yes I know it is mega rubbish - i am meant to be at the vet in a hour with my boy which would probably have been the PTS appointment but have put it off to next week as he is still fighting onwards at the mo but like Merrypip I know it is not long left. That is probably not very comforting but at least you know that we know where you are coming from and it is very hard :(. But the good times with these little fluffies are great and so that is what we do it for :). Go and find that chocolate and cuddle!
 
We are a happy bunch aren't we @lauraboara & @TheAurora but you know what? I wouldn't change it for the world.... They each break my heart in the end but I know I have given them the best they could have and that new start they needed.

I already have my next two old boys lined up to join our family when the time is right and we will only have them for a few years too but oldies deserve the new start, the love and the care as much as any other so I will do it again. And again. And again. Because they give me the most pure love in the world. x
 
We are a happy bunch aren't we @lauraboara & @TheAurora but you know what? I wouldn't change it for the world.... They each break my heart in the end but I know I have given them the best they could have and that new start they needed.

I already have my next two old boys lined up to join our family when the time is right and we will only have them for a few years too but oldies deserve the new start, the love and the care as much as any other so I will do it again. And again. And again. Because they give me the most pure love in the world. x

WONDERFUL x
 
I'm in tears reading this, I really feel for you all, knowing you will soon have to make that last decision for a loved pet is so hard. I was six years without any animals in my life and never thought I would put myself in the position again. I now look on the difficult times as being the price we have to pay for all the good times our animals give us.
I feel really sad for people who don't enjoy their animals because they are missing out on so much. Sometimes relationships can be improved by a change in expectations or changing routine, bedding, food etc. etc. etc. If the forum can help in making the owner/piggy relationship happier then it's a good thing people are being honest. Personally I have my favourite from time to time but I still love them both, as I did with my children as they were growing up.
 
What a touching thread !

I just want to bring things back to your 1st post @TheAurora .

Personally , I like the fact that people feel comfortable being so honest - and that includes you ! You won't be hated for starting this thread .

And ....

Please don't think other people on this forum are better than you - because it simply isn't true.
 
I feel like you made this thread very much targeting me but were too cowardly to come out and directly say it.

Well, you'll be pleased to know I no longer see this as a "safe place" anymore so this will be my last post. Hopefully that makes you happy.
 
I feel like you made this thread very much targeting me but were too cowardly to come out and directly say it.

Well, you'll be pleased to know I no longer see this as a "safe place" anymore so this will be my last post. Hopefully that makes you happy.
Please don't see it like that. I think the original poster had seen a number of these type of posts over recent times (in fact there is one active thread at the moment posted by another member) and has explained why she feels that way. She is entitled to her opinion as well and has good reasons for feeling the way she does as do you.

If you feel a member is being unfair or targeting you then please speak to a member of staff or admin by PM about it as we like to encourage a space where EVERYONE can be honest and share their opinions even if they don't agree.... We are a large group and of course people will have differing opinions but it is ok to express them in a careful and considered manner which this poster has and as I am sure you did in your original post.
 
I feel like you made this thread very much targeting me but were too cowardly to come out and directly say it.

Well, you'll be pleased to know I no longer see this as a "safe place" anymore so this will be my last post. Hopefully that makes you happy.


@TheAurora has been a member on this forum for a considerable while and was on here previously with a different username . She is referring to posters who have posted over a considerable time period and not one specific person .
 
I feel like you made this thread very much targeting me but were too cowardly to come out and directly say it.

Well, you'll be pleased to know I no longer see this as a "safe place" anymore so this will be my last post. Hopefully that makes you happy.

It's something that's been on my mind for a long period of time.

If you feel you were being targeted I can only do my best to assure you that wasn't the case and apologise for any distress caused.

I certainly wouldn't leave a forum where so many people want to support you.
 
I read your posts on Casran @TheAurora and i'm jealous. Not of his current sad issues, of course not, that is horrible, but the character and the relationship you have. I have only had pigs for a couple of months and I do understand the frustration in a couple of the more recent threads. Mine have wormed their way under my skin and I am very very fond of them, and I have read enough on here and other places to realise that a couple of months is VERY early days, but it is easy to wonder "what have I done wrong, why aren't mine little bundles of fun like Casran and Fudge and the other little characters about the place?". To start with I did wonder if we had made a terrible mistake, but they are coming out of their shells with time and energy, but I see how it can become a self fulfilling type cycle, they are skittish and scared and no fun to cuddle, so you are less inspired to want to interact, so they get more skittish and you are even less inspired, until before you know it they are just little creatures that take up space and time and money! With a bit of encouragement from here I'd like to think that some of us (including myself here) can be reminded that they can be encouraged to get better, but also it is good to read of other pigs that remain antisocial types and that that is just their little personality, not always something you did "wrong" and to get suggestions for other ways to enjoy them. Those threads are sad for various reasons, but the responses and suggestions are really useful to see and hopefully by having the courage to post the person being honest will have a positive impact on them and their pet but also on those of us that are just absorbing info like a sponge! And you know, if they decide that the pet isn't for them and they get good direction on how to rehome, perhaps you end up with a happier owner AND pet.
 
And you know, if they decide that the pet isn't for them and they get good direction on how to rehome, perhaps you end up with a happier owner AND pet.

This. It may be distressing, especially if you are a dedicated owner, or in a delicate place to see people expressing their more negative feelings about an animal you love so much. But I would much rather if an individual is unsure or struggling they come somewhere like this for advise or re-assurance than not, and if they really feel that piggies are not for them, or that they cannot provide for them correctly it us better for the owner and the animal to part ways. Why should a baby Guinea pig spend 5 years in a home that is just going to see it it as the thing that's just fed and cleaned when it could go to a new one and have a completely different life?

That being said, in reference to how you are feeling about yourself and these threads @TheAurora I can relate. One of the reasons I have been so quiet one here recently is because there seemed to be a sudden influx of people who had appeared to have got guineas on a whim and them were not prepared to put in the work required, expecting them to be their imagined pet immediately. After reading a few I decided I would be better off just ignoring it. There are other members here who are probably calmer and far more articulate than myself so I figured they could give the advise and support. I suspect this is mostly because I have to do the same thing day in day out on the phone or in person in my job, I'm a polite person but sometimes I can't help but let my tone slip or make a face (I'm terrible for my complete inability to control my frown). So in my downtime I chose not to see it.

On Wednesday my 6yr old boy Harvey was diagnosed with a large tumour which had grown in his leg. He has come home for palliative care for a few days but I know I will have to help him on his way (next week I'll most likely book him in) it's a horrible, horrible feeling. I've had him since he was 4 weeks old, he's been the only piggy that's bitten me hard, he had the most stinking attitude problem as an adolescent. He bit poor Blake on the pom poms, beat various other boys to pulps and was a generally bad boy when I tried re-pairing him when Heston died. He put me thought the stress of sitting and waiting though a castrate. He became an utter gentleman with his two older ladies and a menace with the young one (who is giving him lots of kisses and eye licks now he is old and poorly), but he's always loved being wrapped up in blankets and falling asleep on your lap, and always pined the most out of any piggy I have had when he loses a companion.
In a way I feel sorry for people who can't bond with their pets, because they miss out on so much. On the other hand I don't really envy them either because they don't have to go through this.
 
Tigermoth I feel you hit the nail on the head.

Please don't read the post as a personal whinge, I'm putting myself into another's shoes. I am not putting myself in any particular person's shoes I may add, but coming from a perspective of someone who has never been on a gp forum and has a 'popular, perhaps out-dated' view of piggies.
I personally can see people's worries and frustrations. There is a very popular image of the guinea pig as being an easy pet. Of them being cuddly by nature, calm and docile. There's the common perception of them being easy on the bank balance and simple to keep.
When choosing a pet it's only natural to draw on past experience (perhaps as a child they knew someone with an 'easy' guinea pig, or had one themselves. It's natural to believe that a pet shop will have staff who can offer quality advice. Some people do look on the internet and look up the basic care-sheet type of information available, and these will discuss what they physically need in terms of housing and food etc, the sounds they make, perhaps the breeds and warn people about hair trimming and nail cutting, some offer taming tips, but I have read quite a few of these and many of them fail to mention the very things that are of concern to new owners:
What the pet shops and care sheets often don't tell you:
1) Guinea pigs can be painfully shy, and can take months to learn to trust their humans.
2) Many guinea pigs do not want to sit nicely on the knee, not on yours, not on your child's. Great when they do, but some never do. I can perfectly understand how disappointing it is when you get a family pet and the family pet doesn't appear to want yours or your children's affections.
- Is there something wrong with the guinea pig? Is there something wrong with you? Aren't you keeping it right? How long will this little piggy avoid you? Will they always be like this?
3) Examine the way people have traditionally kept guinea pigs, and the way that is still encouraged by pet shops. You have a small hutch in a garden and you let them out on the grass in a run when it's nice. You put in everything you believe the piggy needs - hay, food, water and a shelter in the run. What do they do? eat and sleep, nibble and hide. You are in the garden, piggy is in sight. You approach, piggy scarpers and doesn't come out again until you've gone. You watch it from your window. You observe. They eat, they sleep.
Same can be said of the smaller store-bought cages. You put them in. They have hay, food, water, a house and little else. They eat, they sleep, they hide away when you approach. In short, they simply don't 'do' a lot, and no-one has told you that it's because you haven't given them much to do. You are not even aware that they would even like to do anything other than sleep, eat and hide. A guinea pig NEEDS enrichment, but so many people don't know this, and assume that they have quite a 'boring' animal. This isn't nice for the guinea pig, and for their people, well they are missing out on the joys of proper piggy-keeping.

Now coupled with the first two points of a shy guinea pig who doesn't yet appear to be responding the way you expected to being handled and you understand how people can be disillusioned about what they had expected and the reality.

4) Other gripes are that they poop. A lot. This either bothers you, or it doesn't, but it's another thing that care sheets and pet shops don't tell you about. They tell you about how to clean the cage, about spot-cleaning and full cleaning, but the amount of poop genuinely takes many people by surprise.
5) And then you get 'the squabbles', those teenage boars who seem to be constantly under each other's feet just baiting trouble from each other. Now you fear that you've got two that don't even like each other so what on Earth do you do about that? Will they ever like each other? And sows can sometimes be like that too.
6) And the time! Who'd have thought that a pair of little animals could take up so much time?

So some people rehome them. Some people try to find out what's going on and if there's something that can be done about their shy/lazy/messy/fighting guinea pigs.

Many things can be remedied:
Give a piggy lots of space and enrichment items and suddenly you see that they indeed do more than just eat and sleep.
Give them time, admittedly, this can be months, and you see them slowly getting braver and relaxed, and you see they have their individual characters. You can form lovely bonds with those who love your lap, and equally lovely bonds with those who don't. Once they trust you, it's so special, and the bind can be very strong, from both sides, which ever way they prefer to interact with you.
The poop, well you can't stop the amount, and you shouldn't try, but there are ways to manage a large cage with having different areas for things, and you often find that after some experimenting with types of bedding/different arrangements, this gets easier. You never know, you may even enjoy this time of day as being a time of being close to them. It's also important for them to know that your hands do not always mean you are trying to catch them. It's actually a good thing that you have to do this often, all helps with taming them.
Those squabbling young piggies often grow out of it to a large extent.

We all have different needs and personalities:
Just as many animals do.
Some of us love all animals and can appreciate those that others may feel are completely unappealing. I like snails. I like spiders. Tardigrades are amongst my favourite animals. We have two pet snakes - we really like them, they don't feel any kind of love for us, they have no wish to interact, they spend much of their time conserving energy by not doing much. That's fine. They are interesting, or they are dull to people, that's OK.
Some people like specific animals, they are dog people, or cat people, and some love one type but not the other; or fish are relaxing, or fish are boring.......etc.
Do you have a need to nurture? How important is it to you if the animal you nurture does not openly show affection back at you?
Do you prefer a pet that does a variety of things? Some animals do, some don't, some need to, some don't.....
Do you prefer predicatability or can you equally appreciate a species that has a variety of personalities?
Is it essential that the pet slots into your current routine pretty much, or are you willing to change how you spend your time?
Are you a touchy-feely person? Or are you happy to observe?
Do you relish the thoughts of interacting, or would you rather just provide the environment and leave the animal to do it's thing? (self sufficient or needy type of pet)
Do you enjoy an animal that you can be creative with, in terms of enrichment, enjoying the joy that another feels when they explore something new?

I think essentially we all have very different desires when it comes to keeping animals, and the issue comes when you choose an animal believing that it will be one set of things, and then you discover that it isn't ticking the boxes that you thought it would. If those boxes are ticked after you've sought advice then great, that's a happy result, but if you cannot take to your animal no matter what you try, then it is as it is, a case of not the right pet for your personality, and conversely you do not have the right frame of mind for your pet.
Does that make for a bad person? Or just a person who made an error of judgement through lack of knowledge? We can all judge a person for not seeking the right advice, and we can all judge for getting a pet for what we feel are the wrong reasons, but sometimes people just make mistakes.

What if a person, after being given advice, never enjoys keeping their guinea pigs?

The important thing from there-on is the animals welfare, and supporting the person to do the right thing, which varies depending on situation. No-one wants the situation where the guinea pigs are unhappy. Where you have people who thought they knew what they were getting in to and were surprised by those things that the care-sheets and the pet shops don't tell you, they can often be supported into creating a happier bond with their piggy, and when this isn't possible, supported into finding a solution that is best for the pigs. When people are willing to do their best to provide and are maintaining a good, large and enriched home for them, then perhaps their guinea pigs are happy with the bond they have with each other, and simply see their human as a neutral provider of physical needs, rather than someone who loves them or not.
 
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