Two unneutered male - bonding issue

Prasiddha

Prasiddha

Junior Guinea Pig
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Icy is the father who lives with his son browny. Due to misunderstanding in guinea pig sex icy was the route cause to my guinea pig sow (fluffy's back to back pregnancy) fluffy stays with her daughter flora and her new borns (4 pups) in a different cage. From 21 days old browny stays with his father icy. Either and they have small fights which get solved easily on their own. Icy is aged around 8 months and browny is 2.5 months old. Today past an hour they are fighting with each other. Icy is trying on mount on browny and making his moves. As though browny is a girl. And browny fights back with icy for his behaviour. Icy not accepting his rejecting, keeps trying to do the same. I know neutering could be a good option. But I life in India and I don't have reliable exotic vets here. I have one general vet I could just trust on medication infections or skin issue. Can't trust him on neutering procedures since they wouldn't have prior experience on guinea pigs. I can't risk my piggies life. What do I do to avoid this behaviour of icy?
 
Neutering them will work. Or getting another female. But this happened to me. They stopped fighting eventually, and it all worked out.
 
MattDaMan said:
Neutering them will work. Or getting another female. But this happened to me. They stopped fighting eventually, and it all worked out.
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Neutering isn't possible in my city. Can't risk with these vets. But do you think I give them time?
 
But female will get pregnant since they are unneutered. Let me wait.
 
Alright. Also, are the males family? If they are, the fighting will probably die much sooner.
 
MattDaMan said:
Alright. Also, are the males family? If they are, the fighting will probably die much sooner.
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Sorry I need to interrupt here as you are giving bad advice.

@Prasiddha what you are likely witnessing is dominance behaviours rather than fighting. Your youngest boy is going through his teenage hormone stage and so there will be challenges. Please do have a read through these guides to familiarise yourself with dominance behaviours and also with boar relationships in trouble so that you are able to identify when you need to step in and potentially separate. I would only separate if absolutely necessary as they do need to work through this difficult time
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonds In Trouble
Boars: A guide to successful companionship.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Neutering does not change a guinea pigs behaviour in the slightest, all it does is render them unable to produce babies so that would not help your situation even if you had a vet suitable to perform the procedure.

Some things you can do to increase the chances of them continuing to live together is to provide them as much space as possible, minimally a permanent 120cmx60cm cage or bigger (the bigger the better Cage Size Guide) and make sure there are 2 of everything - food bowls, water bottles, hideys etc so there is less for them to fight over (though be warned that they will still want the one the other piggy is in). Make sure hideys have two exits so no piggy can get cornered and can easily escape his cage mate.

Once the hormones have settled hopefully your boys will calm down and live happily together
 
Lady Kelly said:
Sorry I need to interrupt here as you are giving bad advice.

@Prasiddha what you are likely witnessing is dominance behaviours rather than fighting. Your youngest boy is going through his teenage hormone stage and so there will be challenges. Please do have a read through these guides to familiarise yourself with dominance behaviours and also with boar relationships in trouble so that you are able to identify when you need to step in and potentially separate. I would only separate if absolutely necessary as they do need to work through this difficult time
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonds In Trouble
Boars: A guide to successful companionship.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Neutering does not change a guinea pigs behaviour in the slightest, all it does is render them unable to produce babies so that would not help your situation even if you had a vet suitable to perform the procedure.

Some things you can do to increase the chances of them continuing to live together is to provide them as much space as possible, minimally a permanent 120cmx60cm cage or bigger (the bigger the better Cage Size Guide) and make sure there are 2 of everything - food bowls, water bottles, hideys etc so there is less for them to fight over (though be warned that they will still want the one the other piggy is in). Make sure hideys have two exits so no piggy can get cornered and can easily escape his cage mate.

Once the hormones have settled hopefully your boys will calm down and live happily together
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Thank you @Lady Kelly they are having big enough housing. Now I will get them separate bottles and food bowls. They were getting along pretty well till today. But icy having those sexual behaviour moves are also normal dominance behaviour. They look like they sorted out on the own now. They are lying down beside each other. Should I wait?
 
Prasiddha said:
Thank you @Lady Kelly they are having big enough housing. Now I will get them separate bottles and food bowls. They were getting along pretty well till today. But icy having those sexual behaviour moves are also normal dominance behaviour. They look like they sorted out on the own now. They are lying down beside each other. Should I wait?
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I'm sure they will be fine then. Sounds like a hormone spike. Even sows do it (I panicked the first time I saw my first sows mounting each other). Just keep an eye on them
 
Lady Kelly said:
I'm sure they will be fine then. Sounds like a hormone spike. Even sows do it (I panicked the first time I saw my first sows mounting each other). Just keep an eye on them
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you sure. Having a close eye on them.
 
Prasiddha said:
Icy is the father who lives with his son browny. Due to misunderstanding in guinea pig sex icy was the route cause to my guinea pig sow (fluffy's back to back pregnancy) fluffy stays with her daughter flora and her new borns (4 pups) in a different cage. From 21 days old browny stays with his father icy. Either and they have small fights which get solved easily on their own. Icy is aged around 8 months and browny is 2.5 months old. Today past an hour they are fighting with each other. Icy is trying on mount on browny and making his moves. As though browny is a girl. And browny fights back with icy for his behaviour. Icy not accepting his rejecting, keeps trying to do the same. I know neutering could be a good option. But I life in India and I don't have reliable exotic vets here. I have one general vet I could just trust on medication infections or skin issue. Can't trust him on neutering procedures since they wouldn't have prior experience on guinea pigs. I can't risk my piggies life. What do I do to avoid this behaviour of icy?
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Hi! Icy is currently suffering from a teenage hormone spike. Mounting is normal boar behaviour. If it is getting too much or too incessant, you can create a little refuge for the baby with a cardboard box or a small tunnel with two small exits on different sides that dad can't get into but also is not able to 'lock in' the baby. Hopefully in a day or two things are more peaceful again. If necessary, separate overnight.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
 
After the noon incident of icy mounting on browny (younger one). They were in peace all evening. But tonight I observed browny (younger one - Icy's son) mounting on Icy. And chasing him around. They both stop this behaviour with a chin to chin. Both face each other with there heads up and making a noise (like chatting). This happens for few minutes. Then they come back normal. Do I need to worry?
 
Prasiddha said:
After the noon incident of icy mounting on browny (younger one). They were in peace all evening. But tonight I observed browny (younger one - Icy's son) mounting on Icy. And chasing him around. They both stop this behaviour with a chin to chin. Both face each other with there heads up and making a noise (like chatting). This happens for few minutes. Then they come back normal. Do I need to worry?
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No, not yet. That is still within the range of normal dominance behaviour. Icy has obviously sired a rather spunky son!
 
Lady Kelly said:
Sorry I need to interrupt here as you are giving bad advice.

@Prasiddha what you are likely witnessing is dominance behaviours rather than fighting. Your youngest boy is going through his teenage hormone stage and so there will be challenges. Please do have a read through these guides to familiarise yourself with dominance behaviours and also with boar relationships in trouble so that you are able to identify when you need to step in and potentially separate. I would only separate if absolutely necessary as they do need to work through this difficult time
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonds In Trouble
Boars: A guide to successful companionship.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Neutering does not change a guinea pigs behaviour in the slightest, all it does is render them unable to produce babies so that would not help your situation even if you had a vet suitable to perform the procedure.

Some things you can do to increase the chances of them continuing to live together is to provide them as much space as possible, minimally a permanent 120cmx60cm cage or bigger (the bigger the better Cage Size Guide) and make sure there are 2 of everything - food bowls, water bottles, hideys etc so there is less for them to fight over (though be warned that they will still want the one the other piggy is in). Make sure hideys have two exits so no piggy can get cornered and can easily escape his cage mate.

Once the hormones have settled hopefully your boys will calm down and live happily together
Click to expand...

Perfect advice along with the others. Going through the same thing-I've seen real fighting with boars. You don't need to worry about that from the behavior you're describing. I had the exact same issue due to mis-sexing (ugh) and have been trying to decide about neutering, bonding, etc. Neutering is available to me here and from a vet I can trust (but I really do understand not having that option where you live) as well. I even made the appt but cancelled and am waiting for a son and tried bonding with our first guinea pig (an adult rescue that also was a huge surprise in finding out she is a he).

The moderators here have given some fantastic advice (as always). I now have the two boars in cages next to each other again in the care of my daughter. These guys have actually come to some frightening blows; I have new stitches from the intervention on the last war (this was full on aggression-when it happens, believe me, there's no doubt and there's bloodshed). Now, however, being cage to cage and one being able to come and go as he pleases in my daughter's room, there is no more teeth chattering. Yesterday evening, they actually rubbed noses (as daughter and I held our breaths) and have been getting on this way at least through the cages. Hormones are definitely a part of the aggression in our two as well. One is around 4 months now, sweet as can be, but going through some spurts.
 
fanniephina said:
Perfect advice along with the others. Going through the same thing-I've seen real fighting with boars. You don't need to worry about that from the behavior you're describing. I had the exact same issue due to mis-sexing (ugh) and have been trying to decide about neutering, bonding, etc. Neutering is available to me here and from a vet I can trust (but I really do understand not having that option where you live) as well. I even made the appt but cancelled and am waiting for a son and tried bonding with our first guinea pig (an adult rescue that also was a huge surprise in finding out she is a he).

The moderators here have given some fantastic advice (as always). I now have the two boars in cages next to each other again in the care of my daughter. These guys have actually come to some frightening blows; I have new stitches from the intervention on the last war (this was full on aggression-when it happens, believe me, there's no doubt and there's bloodshed). Now, however, being cage to cage and one being able to come and go as he pleases in my daughter's room, there is no more teeth chattering. Yesterday evening, they actually rubbed noses (as daughter and I held our breaths) and have been getting on this way at least through the cages. Hormones are definitely a part of the aggression in our two as well. One is around 4 months now, sweet as can be, but going through some spurts.
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Thank you sharing your experience. Makes me feel better now.
 
Have a look at my Icy (proud father of 2 litters with 7 pups in total)
IMG_7982.webpIMG_7983.webpIMG_7986.webp
He is my Pink eyed white. Just love him. But he is a touch me not. Likes to come to me on his own. Never likes being picked or touched. Mr. Demand wants to be petted only when he wishes. Handsome guy.

Will post pics of him with his son soon.
 
Even though both the litters were unexpected... I was little sad that fluffy gave birth to all her pups taking the combination of her fur colours. None looked like my handsome icy. Nor got his pink eye.
 
Icy is a handsome guy!

PEWs (pink-eyed whites) are usually great personalities but many people are sadly put off by the 'lab rat' look even though PEWS are NOT albinos and are a regular breed. I have several piggies with ruby or darker red eyes, but many people won't buy red-eyed piggies, which is a shame. The same goes for any full black piggies...

Many piggies are not naturally into cuddling when they are given the choice. Personally that doesn't bother me; I love to interact them with as personalities and not mainly as pets at the receiving end of my own feelings and desires. I have my cuddly piggies and those that hate to be handled under any circumstances.
Try some piggy whispering tricks to make better friends with him by speaking his language rather than forcing him to learn yours! Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips

In the end, it is all about trust - even a piggy that doesn't like being handled implicitly trusts me when it is ill or upset that I will make it better again and is unfazed by visitors when it knows that you are respecting it and its own feelings. That is when you know that you are doing things right! :)
 
Wiebke said:
Icy is a handsome guy!

PEWs (pink-eyed whites) are usually great personalities but many people are sadly put off by the 'lab rat' look even though PEWS are NOT albinos and are a regular breed. I have several piggies with ruby or darker red eyes, but many people won't buy red-eyed piggies, which is a shame. The same goes for any full black piggies...

Many piggies are not naturally into cuddling when they are given the choice. Personally that doesn't bother me; I love to interact them with as personalities and not mainly as pets at the receiving end of my own feelings and desires. I have my cuddly piggies and those that hate to be handled under any circumstances.
Try some piggy whispering tricks to make better friends with him by speaking his language rather than forcing him to learn yours! Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips

In the end, it is all about trust - even a piggy that doesn't like being handled implicitly trusts me when it is ill or upset that I will make it better again and is unfazed by visitors when it knows that you are respecting it and its own feelings. That is when you know that you are doing things right! :)
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Yes he is of course one of my favourites for his unique personality. I understood that he trust me so much when he was affected by URI. He is a great piggy and a good boy who took all his medicines without hesitation. When he was sick he never hesitated coming to me to have a hug and kiss with his dosage. He always makes a demanding sound to his cage mate when he wants him to move out of his way. Doesn't like his cage mate brownie to touch him nor sit close to him. Likes his own privacy. He popcorns a lot. And looks at me after every popcorn if I am looking at him. I don't agree when people don't like full black guinea pig or ruby/ dark eyed piggy. I don't understand why people don't find them cute or cuddly. Perception differs.
I have a beautiful piggy named flora (his daughter). Out of her two siblings she was the one with full black face. So symmetrical in colour, face full black followed by white body and her back with brown. My husband first wasn't much fond of her due to her black face but later she became his favourite once he understood her personality. Piggies make their slaves life's so much better.
 
I just got my second boar this week, a three month old to go with the six month old I already have, hoping they bond well and don't have to.emd.up with them in separate cages.

So I kept them next to each other for the first few days and they generally just ignored each other then I separated the large cage I have so they can smell each other and see each other without being able to get at each other.

Been introducing them in small doses in the living room where neither ever go so neutral ground and it seems to be going well so far but it's so difficult to differentiate the noises they make.

Most just high pitched squeaking (not hurt) but the odd little rumble from the bigger one (Flash). They do all the dominance stuff with Flash being the aggressor and the small one (Sonic) seemingly happy to let him.

Only problem now is that since they play outside Flash seems desperate to get into Sonics side, I dunno if he's being over aggressive due to sharing a cage (albeit separated) or if he just wants to play with his new marra - lots of squeaking, both feeling out their sides of the separator and Flash tries chewing through or attempts to climb the sides and round. Dunno if it's best to put them back in separate cages as not to stress them or start letting them through more to see if they get on.

Only had Sonic a week so didn't want to open it up so fast but they are getting more vocal and desperate to get through.

Any suggestions?
 
Chatty said:
I just got my second boar this week, a three month old to go with the six month old I already have, hoping they bond well and don't have to.emd.up with them in separate cages.

So I kept them next to each other for the first few days and they generally just ignored each other then I separated the large cage I have so they can smell each other and see each other without being able to get at each other.

Been introducing them in small doses in the living room where neither ever go so neutral ground and it seems to be going well so far but it's so difficult to differentiate the noises they make.

Most just high pitched squeaking (not hurt) but the odd little rumble from the bigger one (Flash). They do all the dominance stuff with Flash being the aggressor and the small one (Sonic) seemingly happy to let him.

Only problem now is that since they play outside Flash seems desperate to get into Sonics side, I dunno if he's being over aggressive due to sharing a cage (albeit separated) or if he just wants to play with his new marra - lots of squeaking, both feeling out their sides of the separator and Flash tries chewing through or attempts to climb the sides and round. Dunno if it's best to put them back in separate cages as not to stress them or start letting them through more to see if they get on.

Only had Sonic a week so didn't want to open it up so fast but they are getting more vocal and desperate to get through.

Any suggestions?
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Hi and welcome to the forum. It would be helpful if you could post this as a new thread in the behaviour and bonding section. It's quite easy for members to overlook a reply to a thread (not purposefully) so you would get more responses with your own thread
 
As lady Kelly says, a separate thread would be best, @Chatty , but I need to jump in and say that once you've started bonding, don't keep separating your piggies. They have to work it through, and this is probably what's causing the behaviours you're seeing - they want to get together to finish their bonding process one way or the other. See the bonding threads in the forum tab and good luck.

To go back to the original thread @Prasiddha just to say that to get another female is the worst thing you could do, as this would definitely cause your boys to fight seriously.

I hope it all works out for you both. X
 
Reenie said:
As lady Kelly says, a separate thread would be best, @Chatty , but I need to jump in and say that once you've started bonding, don't keep separating your piggies. They have to work it through, and this is probably what's causing the behaviours you're seeing - they want to get together to finish their bonding process one way or the other. See the bonding threads in the forum tab and good luck.

To go back to the original thread @Prasiddha just to say that to get another female is the worst thing you could do, as this would definitely cause your boys to fight seriously.

I hope it all works out for you both. X
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Thank you @Reenie might be I was not right the way I communicated. I just mentioned about one of my female piggy. I am not planning to introduce any female in this male pair. The father and son were initially doing well with each other. But last week they were working out again with their bond. I never disturbed their bonding process. I find now that they have sorted out their relationship and doing fine. Both sleep next to each other and love playing around with their hay. Happy they are getting fine now.
 
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